Little Cup Speed tiers rewrite

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
This is a much needed update of the other two available LC Speed Tiers (On site guide and ancient LCF one), both of which are missing many important Pokemon (Munchlax, +2 Porygon, ect), have Pokemon which are entirely unused (Mine Jr., Ledyba, ect), and have the odd spot of inaccurate infomation (like listing Neutral as the nature for virtually every Pokemon). There will be some formatting problems, or something will need to change. As you will see there are often 2-4 of the same number, this follows with the examples I have found in the other speed tiers when two Pokemon with different base speeds hit the same final number (e.g. 394 in the Ubers one), however in LC with so many Pokemon hitting the same numbers it looks very ugly to use this method. I'm not entirely sure how to get around this, but maybe by using /'s and a differently spaced table would be enough to at least improve it.

Anyway, I have left in quite a few Pokemon in italics and/or with a ? after them. These are Pokemon I need more opinions on specifically, but if you find a reasonably common Pokemon or set I have missed, or think that one I have listed is not worth putting up please say so. This is only a first draft and there are bound to be mistakes.

---------------------------------------------------

Getting Started


If you are using these Speed Tiers to construct an EV spread find the maximum Speed of the Pokémon you're building first. You can find this information on our analysis pages for each Pokemon. After you've found your maximum Speed, use the following tables to see how much Speed the threats you wish to out speed have, and EV your Pokémon accordingly. If you are not accustomed to Level 5 play it is strongly advised that you read the Guide to EV distribution in Little Cup before attempting to make spreads. Keep in mind that when calculating your maximum Speed stat, you need to take into account your Pokémon's Speed IV (though it affects the final stats differently at level 5 as detailed in the aforementioned guide).

As an example, +Speed Meowth can hit a maximum speed of 19, which lets it at least tie with a large number of sweepers. This means that dropping Meowth's Speed by a single point is almost never worth it, as much as you may hate speed ties, a 50% chance to outspeed your opponent is always better than a 0% chance. Anorith on the other hand hits 18 maximum Speed, there are relatively few important Pokemon in the 18/17 Speed range, so investing less is a viable option. Unlike level 100 play, Little Cup speeds are much more tightly bunched because they are much lower and you will virtually never have a situation where you can drop even a single point without losing the ability to tie with a group of Pokemon. Due to the fact that Little Cup is such a Speed centred metagame a large majority of Pokemon that invest in speed max out and you have less specialized spreads, note that maxing out does not necessarily mean putting 252 EVs into Speed. The exception to this is with particularly fast Pokemon, Rock Polish Gligar, for example can reach an almost unchallenged 38 Speed after a boost, but even if it drops down to 32 it can still outspeed every single Choice Scarfer in Little Cup, and gain significantly better defenses. 16 is in fact one of the few "magic speed numbers" in Little Cup, after a +2 boost you will outpace even the fastest Choice Scarfers, the other main one is 14. 14 is the minimum Speed that any Choice Scarfer or Pokemon aiming to get a +1 boost will reach as it lets you outpace all Pokemon who have not themselves received a boost.

As A Reference

Speed tiers are also useful as a reference, both in battle and during team building. Not sure if your Modest Agility Mantyke can outspeed all Scarf Anorith? Keeping Speed tiers up during battles, especially when you are relatively new to a metagame and don't know many Speeds from memory, can make the difference between guessing and certainty.

With Speed being so important in Little Cup, you will often want to add a fast Pokemon to your team, but may not know exactly what is available and what works. These Speed Tiers can provide a easily accessible list of the most common Scarfers, and help you find new options you may not otherwise have thought of.


Tier 1: +2 Pokemon with 55 to 85 Base Speed
  • 38 - +2 +nature/max Aipom, Buizel, Buneary, Gligar (85)
  • 36 - +2 max Buizel, Gligar (85)
  • 34 - +2 +nature/max Carvanha, Drifloon, Goldeen, Surskit (65-70)
  • 32 - +2 max Anorith, Doduo (75)
  • 32 - +2 +nature/max Kabuto, Cranidos, Horsea (55-58)
  • 32 - +2 max Carvanha, Difloon, Chinchou, Goldeen, Surskit (65-70)
Tier 2: +1 Pokemon and +2 Pokemon with less than 60 Base Speed
  • 30 - +1 +nature/max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid, (95-100)
  • 30 - +2 116 Drifloon (70)
  • 30 - +2 max Kabuto, Cranidos, Horsea (55-58)
  • 30 - +2 +nature/max Dratini, Mantyke (50)
  • 28 - +1 max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid (95-100)
  • 28 - +1 +nature/max Abra, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreavus, Magby, Gligar (85-90)
  • 28 - +2 max Dratini, Krabby, Mantyke (50)
  • 28 - +2 +nature/max Exeggcute, Omanyte, Larvitar, Bellsprout, Cubone, Corpish (35-41)
  • 27 - +1 max Abra, Ponyta, Staryu, Magby, Gligar (85-90)
  • 27 - +1 +nature/max Anorith, Gastly, Stunky (74-80)
  • 26 - +2 max Exeggcute, Omanyte, Larvitar, Bellsprout, Cubone (35-41)
  • 26 - +2 +nature/max Rhyhorn, Oddish, Aron (25-30)
  • 26 - +2 no-speed Drifloon (70)
  • 26 - +1 max Gastly, Stunky (74-80)
  • 25 - +1 +nature/max Mankey, Cyndaquil, Houndour, Remoraid, Drifloon, Carvanha, Spoink, Onix, Chinchou (65-70)
  • 24 - +1 max Mankey, Cyndaquil, Houndour, Drifloon, Remoraid, Carvanha (65-70)
  • 24 - +1 +nature/max Eevee, Wailmer, Cranidos, Barboach (55-60)
  • 24 - +2 max Aron (30)
  • 22 - +1 max Eevee, Cranidos, Wailmer (55-60)
  • 22 - +1 +nature/max Magnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Bagon, Bulbasaur, Venonat (45-50)
  • 14 -+1116 Barboach (60)
  • 21 - +1 max Magnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Bagon, Bulbasaur, Venonat (45-50)
  • 21 - +1 +nature/max Teddiursa, Porygon, Larvitar, Shroomish, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Machop, Corpish (35-42)
Tier 3: 55 to 100 Base Speed
  • 20 - +nature/max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid (95-100)
  • 19 - +nature/max Abra, Aipom, Buneary, Buizel, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreavus, Magby, Meowth, Gligar, Poliwag, Glameow, Taillow (83-85)
  • 18 - +nature/max Anorith, Gastly, Doduo (73-80)
  • 17 - +nature/max Mankey, Houndour, Carvanha, Drifloon, Goldeen, Smoochum, Surskit, Onix, Goldeen (65-70)
  • 17 - max Anorith, Doduo, Gastly, Stunky (74-80)
  • 16 - +nature/max Eevee, Kabuto, Chimchar, Cranidos, Spoink, Horsea (55-61)
  • 16 - max Mankey, Houndour, Carvanha, Drifloon, Goldeen, Chinchou (65-70)
  • 16 - 76 Gligar (85)
  • 15 - +nature/max Magnemite, Dratini, Swinub, Bagon, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 15 - max Eevee, Kabuto, Chimchar, Cranidos, Horsea, Squirtle (55-61)
  • 15 - 116 Drifloon (70)
  • 15 - no-speed Gligar (85)
Tier 4: Less than 50 Base Speed
  • 14 - +nature/max Teddiursa, Exeggcute, Cubone, Porygon, Omanyte, Larvitar, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Bellsprout, Corpish (35-42)
  • 14 - max Magnemite, Krabby, Swinub, Bagon, Dratini, Croagunk, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 14 - 116 Barboach (60)
  • 13 - +nature/max Rhyhorn, Oddish, Aron (35-30)
  • 13 - max Exeggcute, Cubone, Porygon, Omanyte, Larvitar, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Bellsprout (35-42)
  • 13 - no-speed Onix, Chinchou, Tentacool, Stunky (67-70)
  • 12 - +nature/max Paras (25)
  • 12 - max Rhyhorn, Oddish, Aron (30-35)
  • 12 - no-speed Spoink, Wailmer, Kabuto (55-60)
  • 11 - +nature/max Trapinch (10)
  • 11 - no-speed Krabby, Shuppet, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 11 - -nature/0IV Gastly (80)
  • 10 - no-speed Machop, Koffing, Cubone, Phanpy, Shroomish, Numel, Squirtle, Snover (35-40)
  • 9 - no-speed Aron, Paras, Lickitung, Rhyhorn, Makuhita, Duskull, Hippopotas, Grimer, Nosepass (25-32)
  • 9 - -nature/0IV Cranidos, Wailmer (58-60)
  • 8 - no-speed Azurill, Lileep, Wynaut, Bronzor, Wooper (20-23)
  • 8 - -nature/0IV Shuppet (45)
  • 7 - no-speed Trapinch, Munchlax (5-10)
  • 6 - -nature/0IV Bronzor, Duskull (23-25)
  • 5 - -nature/0IV Trapinch (10)
  • 4 - -nature/0IV Munchlax (5)
So, suggest away!
 

little gk

competitive oosos player
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
This is a much needed update of the other two available Little Cup Speed Tiers, On site guide and ancient LCF one, both of which are missing many important Pokemon (Munchlax, +2 Porygon, ect), have Pokemon which are entirely unused (Mine Jr., Ledyba, ect), and have the odd spot of inaccurate infomation (like listing Neutral as the nature for virtually every Pokemon). There will be some formatting problems, or something will need to change. As you will see there are often 2-4 of the same number, this follows with the examples I have found in the other speed tiers when two Pokemon with different base speeds hit the same final number (e.g. 394 in the Ubers one), however, in Little Cup with so many Pokemon hitting the same numbers it looks very ugly to use this method. I'm not entirely sure how to get around this, but maybe by using slashes and a differently spaced table would be enough to at least improve it.

Anyway, (anyway, is uneeded)I have left in quite a few Pokemon in italics and, or with a ? after them. These are Pokemon I need more opinions on specifically, but if you find a reasonably common Pokemon or set I have missed, or think that one I have listed is not worth putting up please say so. This is only a first draft and there are bound to be mistakes.

---------------------------------------------------

Getting Started

If you are using these Speed Tiers to construct an EV spread find the maximum Speed of the Pokémon you're building first (deleated the first "first"). You can find this information on our analysis pages for each Pokemon. After you've found your maximum Speed, use the following tables to see how much Speed the threats you wish to out speed have, and EV your Pokémon accordingly. If you are not accustomed to Level 5 play it is strongly advised that you read the Guide to EV distribution in Little Cup before attempting to make spreads. Keep in mind that ("that" is uneeded)when calculating your maximum Speed stat, you need to take into account your Pokémon's Speed IVs (though it affects the final stats differently at level 5 as detailed in the aforementioned guide).

As an example, +Speed Meowth can hit a maximum speed of 19, which lets it at least tie with a large number of sweepers. This means that dropping Meowth's Speed by a single point is almost never worth it, as much as you may hate speed ties, a 50% chance to outspeed your opponent is always better than a 0% chance. Anorith, on the other hand, hits 18 maximum Speed and there are relatively few important Pokemon in the 18/17 Speed range, so investing less is a viable option. Unlike in ("in" is uneeded)level 100 play, Little Cup Speeds are much more tightly bunched because they are much lower and you will virtually never have a situation where you can drop even a single point without losing the ability to tie with a group of Pokemon. Due to the fact that Little Cup is such a Speed centered metagame a large majority of Pokemon that invest in speed max out and you have less specialized spreads, note that maxing out does not necessarily mean putting 252 EVs into Speed. The exception to this is with particularly fast Pokemon, Rock Polish Gligar, for example can reach an almost unchallenged 38 Speed after a boost, but even if it drops down to 32 it can still outspeed every single Choice Scarfer in Little Cup, and gain significantly better defenses. 16 is in fact one of the few "magic speed numbers" in Little Cup, after a +2 boost you will outpace even the fastest Choice Scarfer, the other is 14. 14 is the minimum Speed that any Choice Scarfer or Pokemon aiming to get a +1 boost will get as it lets you outpace all Pokemon who have not themselves received a boost.


Tier 1: +2 Pokemon with 55 to 85 Base Speed
  • 39 - +4 (Unburden+Salac) no-speed Drifloon (70) ?
  • 38 - +2 +nature/max Aipom, Buizel, Buneary, Gligar (85)
  • 36 - +2 max Aipom, Buizel, Buneary, Gligar (85)
  • 34 - +2 +nature/maxCarvanha, Drifloon, Chinchou (65-70)
  • 32 - +2 max Anorith, Doduo (75)
  • 32 - +2 +nature/max Kabuto, Cranidos, (55-58)
  • 32 - +2 maxCarvanha, Difloon, Chinchou (65-70) (Agility/Rain Surskit, Goldeen, RP Onix?)
Tier 2: +1 Pokemon and +2 Pokemon with less than 60 Base Speed
  • 30 - +1 +nature/max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid, (95-100)
  • 30 - +2 maxKabuto, Cranidos (55-58)
  • 30 - +2 +nature/maxDratini, Mantyke (50)
  • 28 - +1 max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid (95-100)
  • 28 - +1 +nature/max Abra, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreaveus, Magby, Gligar (85-90)
  • 28 - +2 max Dratini, Mantyke (50)
  • 28 - +2 +nature/max Exeggcute, Omanyte, Larvitar, Bellsprout, Porygon, Cubone (35-41)
  • 27 - +1 max Abra, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreaveus, Magby, Gligar (85-90)
  • 27 - +1 +nature/max Anorith, Gastly, Stunky (74-80)
  • 26 - +2 max Exeggcute, Omanyte, Larvitar, Bellsprout, Porygon (35-41)
  • 26 - +2 +nature/max Rhyhorn, Oddish (25-30)
  • 26 - +2 no-speed Drifloon (70)
  • 25 - +1 +nature/max Mankey, Cyndaquil, Houndour, Remoraid, Carvanha (65-70) (Salac/DD Charmander, Scarf Onix/Chincy/Spoink?)
  • 24 - +1 max Mankey, Cyndaquil, Houndour, Remoraid, Carvanha (65-70)
  • 24 - +1+nature/maxEevee, Wailmer, Cranidos (55-60) (Barboach?)
  • 24 - +2max Rhyhorn, Oddish (25-30)
  • 22 - +2 no-speed Mantyke, Dratini (50)
  • 22 - +1 max Eevee, Cranidos, Wailmer (55-60)
  • 22 - +1 +nature/maxMagnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Bagon, Bulbasaur (45-50) (Venonat?)
  • 21 - +1 max Magnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Bagon, Bulbasaur (45-50)
  • 21 - +1 +nature/max Teddiursa, Porygon, Larvitar, Shroomish, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Machop (35-42)
Tier 3: 55 to 100 Base Speed
  • 20 -+nature/max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid (95-100)
  • 19 -+nature/max Abra, Aipom, Buneary, Buizel, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreaveus, Magby, Meowth, Gligar, Poliwag, Glameow, Taillow (83-85)
  • 18 -+nature/max Anorith, Gastly, Doduo, Stunky (73-80)
  • 17 - +nature/max Mankey, Houndour, Carvanha, Drifloon (65-70) (Remoraid, Goldeen, Tentacool, Smoochum, Surskit, Onix?)
  • 17 - max Anorith, Doduo, Gastly, Stunky (74-80)
  • 16 - +nature/max Eevee, Kabuto, Dratini, Chimchar, Cranidos (55-61)(Charmander, Spoink?)
  • 16 - max Mankey, Houndour, Carvanha, Drifloon (65-70)
  • 16 - 76 Gligar (85)
  • 15 - +nature/max Magnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Swinub, Bagon, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 15 - max Eevee, Kabuto, Chimchar, Cranidos (55-61)
  • 15 - no-speed Gligar (85)
Tier 4: Less than 50 Base Speed
  • 14 - +nature/max Teddiursa, Exeggcute, Cubone, Porygon, Omanyte Larvitar, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Bellsprout, Machop (35-42)
  • 14 - max Magnemite, Krabby, Swinub, Bagon, Dratini, Croagunk, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 13 - +nature/max Rhyhorn, Oddish (35-30)
  • 13 - max Exeggcute, Cubone, Porygon, Omanyte, Larvitar, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Bellsprout (35-42)
  • 13 - no-speed Onix, Chinchou (67-70)
  • 12 - +nature/max Paras (25)
  • 12 - max Rhyhorn, Oddish (35-30)
  • 12 - no-speed Spoink, Wailmer (60)
  • 11 - +nature/max Trapinch (10)
  • 11 - no-speed Krabby, Shuppet, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 11 - -nature/0IV Gastly (80)
  • 10 - no-speed Machop, Koffing, Cubone, Phanpy, Shroomish, Numel (35-40)
  • 9 - no-speed Aron, Paras, Lickitung, Rhyhorn, Makuhita, Duskull, Hippopotas, (25-32) (Grimer, Nosepass?)
  • 9 - -nature/0IV Cranidos, Wailmer (58-60)
  • 8 - no-speed Lileep, Wynaut, Bronzor (20-23) (Azurill?)
  • 8 - -nature/0IV Shuppet(45)
  • 7 -no-speed Trapinch, Munchlax (5-10)
  • 6 - -nature/0IV Bronzor (23)
  • 5 - -nature/0IV Trapinch (10)
  • 4 - -nature/0IV Munchlax (5)
So, suggest away!

you put in most of the stuff i suggested in #littlecup already, but I'll just check this again.

annnd I'm an idiot for correcting that first paragraph
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
sorry jumpluff, post what you have if you want and I can integrate some of the Pokemon I may have missed. And I was going to ask if you wanted to HTMLise, but Gen offered first.

Making GK's grammar suggestions and adding a little something about using the speed tiers as a general reference list in battle, not just to make spreads.

Also, Is it a good idea to tag the Priority Speed Tiers onto this? If yes I'll reformat and make a few changes to which Pokemon are on it.
 
RP Onix should imo, its the faster rhyhorn (albeit a bit weaker) and it would be good to list so if you have a big rp rhyhorn weak and use a certain speed to defeat it, it would be handy to see about his much faster cousin, and if you should go that high as well.
 

Brambane

protect the wetlands
is a Contributor Alumnus
RD Goldeen and Surskit, Scarf Spoink, + nature/max Remoraid and Spoink, and no-speed Nosepass all diserve mention imo.

Goldeen and Surskit are all powerful sweepers under rain. Scarf Spoink is notable because of Trick. Remoraid is also a good Bander, so +nature/max should be mentioned. Spoink without scarf i'm on the fence with, but I think it should still me mentioned, because of it's great abilities. And Nosepass is really good, and I'm amazed how much it isn't used.
 

bugmaniacbob

Was fun while it lasted
is an Artist Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Considering that the current article on LCF appears to be recognised by Google as being in Indonesian, it's probably a very good thing that this is being updated properly.

Nitpicks:
Tier 1: +2 Pokemon with 55 to 85 Base Speed
  • 39 - +4 (Unburden+Salac) no-speed Drifloon (70) ?
  • 38 - +2 +nature/max Aipom, Buizel, Buneary, Gligar (85)
  • 36 - +2 max Aipom, Buizel, Buneary, Gligar (85)
  • 34 - +2 +nature/max
    Carvanha, Drifloon, Chinchou (65-70)
  • 32 - +2 max Anorith, Doduo (75)
  • 32 - +2 +nature/max Kabuto, Cranidos, (55-58)
  • 32 - +2 max
    Carvanha, Difloon, Chinchou (65-70) (Agility/Rain Surskit, Goldeen, RP Onix?)
Tier 2: +1 Pokemon and +2 Pokemon with less than 60 Base Speed
  • 30 - +1 +nature/max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid, (95-100)
  • 30 - +2 max
    Kabuto, Cranidos (55-58)
  • 30 - +2 +nature/max Dratini, Mantyke (50)
  • 28 - +1 max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid (95-100)
  • 28 - +1 +nature/max Abra, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreavus, Magby, Gligar (85-90)
  • 28 - +2 max Dratini, Mantyke (50)
  • 28 - +2 +nature/max Exeggcute, Omanyte, Larvitar, Bellsprout, Porygon, Cubone (35-41)
  • 27 - +1 max Abra, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreaveus, Magby, Gligar (85-90)
  • 27 - +1 +nature/max Anorith, Gastly, Stunky (74-80)
  • 26 - +2 max Exeggcute, Omanyte, Larvitar, Bellsprout, Porygon (35-41)
  • 26 - +2 +nature/max Rhyhorn, Oddish (25-30)
  • 26 - +2 no-speed Drifloon (70)
  • 25 - +1 +nature/max Mankey, Cyndaquil, Houndour, Remoraid, Carvanha (65-70) (Salac/DD Charmander, Scarf Onix/Chincy/Spoink?)
  • 24 - +1 max Mankey, Cyndaquil, Houndour, Remoraid, Carvanha (65-70)
  • 24 - +1
    +nature/max Eevee, Wailmer, Cranidos (55-60) (Barboach?)
  • 24 - +2
    max Rhyhorn, Oddish (25-30)
  • 22 - +2 no-speed Mantyke, Dratini (50)
  • 22 - +1 max Eevee, Cranidos, Wailmer (55-60)
  • 22 - +1 +nature/max Magnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Bagon, Bulbasaur (45-50) (Venonat?)
  • 21 - +1 max Magnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Bagon, Bulbasaur (45-50)
  • 21 - +1 +nature/max Teddiursa, Porygon, Larvitar, Shroomish, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Machop (35-42)
Tier 3: 55 to 100 Base Speed
  • 20 -
    +nature/max Diglett, Voltorb, Elekid (95-100)
  • 19 -
    +nature/max Abra, Aipom, Buneary, Buizel, Ponyta, Staryu, Misdreavus, Magby, Meowth, Gligar, Poliwag, Glameow, Taillow (83-85)
  • 18 -
    +nature/max Anorith, Gastly, Doduo, Stunky (73-80)
  • 17 - +nature/max Mankey, Houndour, Carvanha, Drifloon (65-70) (Remoraid, Goldeen, Tentacool, Smoochum, Surskit, Onix?)
  • 17 - max Anorith, Doduo, Gastly, Stunky (74-80)
  • 16 - +nature/max Eevee, Kabuto, Dratini, Chimchar, Cranidos (55-61) (Charmander, Spoink?)
  • 16 - max Mankey, Houndour, Carvanha, Drifloon (65-70)
  • 16 - 76 Gligar (85)
  • 15 - +nature/max Magnemite, Krabby, Dratini, Swinub, Bagon, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 15 - max Eevee, Kabuto, Chimchar, Cranidos (55-61)
  • 15 - no-speed Gligar (85)
Tier 4: Less than 50 Base Speed
  • 14 - +nature/max Teddiursa, Exeggcute, Cubone, Porygon, Omanyte Larvitar, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Bellsprout, Machop (35-42)
  • 14 - max Magnemite, Krabby, Swinub, Bagon, Dratini, Croagunk, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 13 - +nature/max Rhyhorn, Oddish (35-30)
  • 13 - max Exeggcute, Cubone, Porygon, Omanyte, Larvitar, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Bellsprout (35-42)
  • 13 - no-speed Onix, Chinchou (67-70)
  • 12 - +nature/max Paras (25)
  • 12 - max Rhyhorn, Oddish (35-30)
  • 12 - no-speed Spoink, Wailmer (60)
  • 11 - +nature/max Trapinch (10)
  • 11 - no-speed Krabby, Shuppet, Mantyke (45-50)
  • 11 - -nature/0IV Gastly (80)
  • 10 - no-speed Machop, Koffing, Cubone, Phanpy, Shroomish, Numel (35-40)
  • 9 - no-speed Aron, Paras, Lickitung, Rhyhorn, Makuhita, Duskull, Hippopotas
    (25-32) (Grimer, Nosepass?)
  • 9 - -nature/0IV Cranidos, Wailmer (58-60)
  • 8 - no-speed Lileep, Wynaut, Bronzor (20-23) (Azurill?)
  • 8 - -nature/0IV Shuppet
    (45)
  • 7 -
    no-speed Trapinch, Munchlax (5-10)
  • 6 - -nature/0IV Bronzor (23)
  • 5 - -nature/0IV Trapinch (10)
  • 4 - -nature/0IV Munchlax (5)
Oh, by the way, the Scythers are extra spaces and the Sneasels are removed punctuation marks, just in case you didn't see the corrections otherwise.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

~hallelujah~
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RP Onix should imo, its the faster rhyhorn (albeit a bit weaker) and it would be good to list so if you have a big rp rhyhorn weak and use a certain speed to defeat it, it would be handy to see about his much faster cousin, and if you should go that high as well.
Onix has 35 attack. In addition to that, it hits the 16 required to outspeed all LC mons even after Choice Scarf, so its speed is kinda pointless. Leave it out, IMO.
 

Blackhawk11

one on one
eric the espeon said:
Tier 4: Less than 50 Base Speed
  • 14 - +nature/max Teddiursa, Exeggcute, Cubone, Porygon, Omanyte, (comma) Larvitar, Cacnea, Gible, Snover, Bellsprout, Machop (35-42)
That was bugging me.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Thanks for the fixes/suggestions people.

Gen, I'd like to have more opinions on some of the italic Pokemon from experienced LC players, really. Probably ask about some specifically on the irc channel again, but I'll wrap this up in the next few days, just pick which should go in from my experience, unless there is a flow of suggestions.

Edit:
removed: 24 - +2 max Rhyhorn, Oddish (25-30)
added surskit, goldeen, +1 Onix

Edit 2: Apparently we should be getting LC stats soon, so I'll hold off finishing this until we get those.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Made a load of changes, this is almost done (will go through more stats to check later, but should not be many more changes). Last chance for suggestions.
 
Should we not wait until HGSS changes/confirmation? Lots of Pokemon that are on here may not even be used, and lots of Pokemon who aren't considered will be on this chart. I think we should hold off a bit.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
You're probably right.. I'll wait until the moves are up and people have had some chance to see what works before going to put this on site, but not long. Maybe 4-5 days after HG/SS is on shoddy, its been waiting long enough.
 

eric the espeon

maybe I just misunderstood
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Updated with HG/SS changes, I think I got everything that wants to be on there but could have missed something.

Are Priority speed tiers a good idea as part of this?

Edit: Big thanks to Gen for HTMLising this and getting it on site. If you have further suggestions run them past the people on #littlecup and talk to Gen or me.
 

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