(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Worldie]

That’s more of a people problem than a gameplay problem. If they can’t accept changes, they can’t decide what is for the best of a franchise other than “ain’t broke don’t change it” mentality.

Oh don't get me wrong, i 100% agree it's a "people problem", I myself welcome any attempt at changing the gameplay they do (I loved L.A. for example).

Unfortunately, games have to sell. Thus have to appeal to people.
And well, if 90% of the buyers want the same mechanics, it'd be pretty unwise to not do so.
(It doesn't help that as people have stated multiple times, these are at core still games for young children. They have to be simple and easy to understand, at least in their single player story bit)

Some companies actually tried and got away with it (I'm still shocked by what SEGA did with Yakuza 7 and 8, and even more surprised that it *worked*).
Some didn't and the games where they changed the gameplay are either hated or considered the lowest point of the series.

Knowing GameFreaks, TPCI and Nintendo... They don't strike me as the types who'd take the risk. It's a miracle we even got the Legends series as is (and since they are spinoffs, I guess that's a place where they can take those risks)

 

[Sultan]

Oh don't get me wrong, i 100% agree it's a "people problem", I myself welcome any attempt at changing the gameplay they do (I loved L.A. for example).

Unfortunately, games have to sell. Thus have to appeal to people.
And well, if 90% of the buyers want the same mechanics, it'd be pretty unwise to not do so.
(It doesn't help that as people have stated multiple times, these are at core still games for young children. They have to be simple and easy to understand, at least in their single player story bit)

Some companies actually tried and got away with it (I'm still shocked by what SEGA did with Yakuza 7 and 8, and even more surprised that it *worked*).
Some didn't and the games where they changed the gameplay are either hated or considered the lowest point of the series.

Knowing GameFreaks, TPCI and Nintendo... They don't strike me as the types who'd take the risk. It's a miracle we even got the Legends series as is (and since they are spinoffs, I guess that's a place where they can take those risks)

They don't really need the games to sell super well, as the majority of the money is in the merchandise. As the biggest video game franchise in history, Pokémon has the most room to innovate, yet they don't. Also, Nintendo is definitely the type to take risks; Super Mario 64 and Breath of the Wild were both huge risks yet they paid off massively.

 

[Ironmage]

As somebody who firmly considers pokemon to currently be in the "it wasn't broke, you tried to fix it anyway" section,

it feels like a logical consequence of people liking the same thing for different reasons. A change that removes something is naturally going to leave the people that liked that thing disappointed if the new thing isn't to their liking, so them saying they would have preferred if a series had stayed its course is just stating a fact. Because we all know corporate greed is a factor, it's always the default explanation for decisions we don't like. I can't help but see Breath of the Wild as having prioritized chasing the open-world trend because that's what sells over delivering a Zelda game that is closer to why I would want to play a Zelda game.

At some level, I wonder if the publicity the competitive scene provides is a main reason why they haven't yet messed with the PvP battle system since the commitment is higher. I imagine the people who would put hundreds of hours into e.g. real-time PvP games have already mostly found communities and so wouldn't switch to pokemon to make up for the people who left.

 

[Worldie]

They don't really need the games to sell super well, as the majority of the money is in the merchandise. As the biggest video game franchise in history, Pokémon has the most room to innovate, yet they don't. Also, Nintendo is definitely the type to take risks; Super Mario 64 and Breath of the Wild were both huge risks yet they paid off massively.

Yesn't
It's true, large majority of the money is in the merchandise, iirc the games make up for less than 30% of the Pokemon franchise income.

But at same time, the games are the "introduction" to new generations. Since the franchise has become that big, the "new game" is always the introduction to what to expect from every other related piece of the franchise, be it the anime, the plushies, the TCG, etc etc.

Thus, it's in their best interest to expose the game to as many people who would end up buying the merchandise.
And guess which is the target demographic? Yeah, young children and teenagers.... exactly the type of "player" that isn't really fond of complicate games and would rather have streamlined experiences.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Why? Why do people have such a distaste for flavor and complexity in a fantasy/sci-fi video game series? Can they not feel joy?

Because the flavor of getting a 0 Atk IV, Modest Starly tastes like swampy ass.

And yes, it can happen. Actually, a lot of worse things can happen. Case in point:

If you can feel joy over that, more power to you. There are other ways to add flavor. No one mentions the characteristics line that could complement the Nature system while not being as obtrusive gameplay-wise.

Also, the idea of complexity with IVs is laughable. Rolling dice that more often than not nets you losses isn't complex, it's tedious and detrimental to the gameplay.

 

[AztecCroc]

No one mentions the characteristics line that could complement the Nature system while not being as obtrusive gameplay-wise.

That's entirely based on your IVs (barring a PID based tie breaker if multiple IVs tie for highest).

 

[Hugin]

So I decided we needed some realish numbers to look at here if we're discussing how much IVs matter in-game. Straight 31s(with or without the occasional 0) are vital competitively of course, but will you notice it against in-game trainers?

Hide

Level 50 chosen because it's close to where most endgames kick off and is a round number, Mew chosen for easy display purposes, 60 EVs because most people don't EV train in-game. Atk is the baseline, def has max EVs, SPA has min EVs, SpD has a negative nature, Spe has a positive nature.

12% change to a stat. There's a lot of nuance, and it's different at different levels, but the difference between max and min IVs is slightly more than the influence a nature has. It's similar to EV training your mon vs random EVs. That's a lot more severe than I was expecting, TBH. If I give them both 31/0 def and Earthquake, 31 vs 0 atk takes EQ from a nearly sure 4 hit to a nearly-sure 5 hit. As in, you're losing a fifth of the damage per hit.

For a system that is both entirely random in-game and completely hidden from players, that's not great. I don't think it's terrible, obviously, you can still use a mon even with a bad IV or Nature(though both REALLY sucks). It's just...is the ability to say "every mon is different" and the occasional 18 IV Timid Kartana in competitive worth players occasionally getting a Starter or similar that just deals significantly less damage or outspeeds far fewer mons than the one their buddy got?

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

That's entirely based on your IVs (barring a PID based tie breaker if multiple IVs tie for highest).

Obviously, they wouldn't need to be in the case of IVs being removed.

The idea is that if the goal is to have different mons be different for quirkiness and immersion-sake besides Natures, just nuke the IV system and keep the characteristics one tied to something else. That way both sides can be happy as each mon would be unique without gameplay issues.

IVs are a terrible system.

 

[Bakugames]

I mean if they want each pokemon to feel unique, i think they should have just gone with traditional rpg point allocation per level. I feel like the impact of IVs as a "every pokemon is different" flavor isn't super impactful unless you already knew exactly how it worked or youre catching multiple of one pokemon, which isn't something super applicable in the main games? meanwhile allocating stats make a personal choice, its your little guy youre working with and making stronger kind of deal. There'll still be optimal stats I'm sure but i think casual players would naturally pick different choices which leads to different pokemon

 

[AztecCroc]

I mean if they want each pokemon to feel unique, i think they should have just gone with traditional rpg point allocation per level. I feel like the impact of IVs as a "every pokemon is different" flavor isn't super impactful unless you already knew exactly how it worked or youre catching multiple of one pokemon, which isn't something super applicable in the main games? meanwhile allocating stats make a personal choice, its your little guy youre working with and making stronger kind of deal. There'll still be optimal stats I'm sure but i think casual players would naturally pick different choices which leads to different pokemon

That was not traditional back in 2002 when IVs were introduced. Also I've played Pokémon-likes that tried to implement something like that, it's just tedious in-game.

 

[pika pal]

That was not traditional back in 2002 when IVs were introduced. Also I've played Pokémon-likes that tried to implement something like that, it's just tedious in-game.

Dragon Quest has used a point allocation system for its monster games since the DS Joker game if not earlier, main line had it in 8 on the PS2, Mario and Luigi used it in Superstar Saga on GBA (which isn't a Monster game but shows how much you can tweak a playthrough for 2 characters, much less 130 of them). I've played RPG's and Monster Games that used Skill/Point allocation to good effect, so that's 1 vs 1 if we're just treating anecdotes as arguments.

Also, Point allocation has been a thing for years in Pokemon. It's called EVs, which have been well received by Competitive/PvP players, are much more comprehensible to casuals (later games having visual graphs and the general idea of "Pokemon gets better by using it against stuff good at this"), and are simple enough to influence with Vitamins or just playing that they actually CAN affect an in-game run.

 

[AztecCroc]

Dragon Quest has used a point allocation system for its monster games since the DS Joker

The game that came out after Diamond and Pearl? I don't see how applies to why EVs/IVs were created/streamlined for Ruby and Sapphire from to stat exp/DVs of Gens 1 and 2. Also no the earlier GB DQM games did not have a point allocation system all monsters of the same species were exactly the same unless they were created through the weird breeding/fusion system 2 introduced, and even then if you repeated the same steps with the same species of parent monsters you'd get an exact duplicate.

main line had it in 8 on the PS2, Mario and Luigi used it in Superstar Saga on GBA

Standard RPGs aren't really the same beast those are balanced around the specific characters and as you said it's more equivalent to EVs than IVs, which are what most people were talking about. The one to three extra points in a stat per level in M&L don't really change much aside from against like the final boss there's basically no difference between 450-ish in a stat and 999 (barring HP and Stache). They're literally designed so the bonus stats don't matter. Honestly, once you've got enough Power to get past the defense of any enemy with decent-ish damage Mario and Luigi is more a game of reflexes and memorization than stats.
I can't speak for DQ8 never had any of the Playstations and I wasn't exactly looking at new 3DS games in 2017.

My experience is that they're either irrelevant and you can max out every stat and they just add extra grinding or you have to be incredibly precise or the monster's just useless and you basically have to carefully plan out where every point goes and you're basically required to essentially EV train in the main game while also probably going through (semi-)blind.

Imagine playing one of those deliberately bullshit romhacks (because that's usually the level of "balance" a lot of these games tend to have) where you have to EV train to stand a chance, but you've also put it through a randomizer to completely scramble everything's movepools, base stats, and EV yields. I've seen monsters in that take harder left turns in their stats than Hydreigon does.

Also, Point allocation has been a thing for years in Pokemon. It's called EVs, which have been well received by Competitive/PvP players, are much more comprehensible to casuals (later games having visual graphs and the general idea of "Pokemon gets better by using it against stuff good at this"), and are simple enough to influence with Vitamins or just playing that they actually CAN affect an in-game run.

Yeah, but EVs aren't manual. You can, by having the Pokémon fight specific opponents or giving it specific items, control what EVs it gets but you don't have to screw around in a menu like in lot of games it just happens.

Gamefreak's also tried removing IVs and merging them into EVs twice now, AVs were awful and Grit was worse. Because I'll remind you those are essentially what you were arguing for, and they weren't fun.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Obviously, they wouldn't need to be in the case of IVs being removed.

The idea is that if the goal is to have different mons be different for quirkiness and immersion-sake besides Natures, just nuke the IV system and keep the characteristics one tied to something else. That way both sides can be happy as each mon would be unique without gameplay issues.

You don't even have to remove IVs to do this. You can keep things like characteristics tied to IVs and just... change all stat and damage calculation logic so that they ignore IVs and no longer take them into account anymore. They could still be part of the Pokemon's data structure; they just wouldn't be used in battle anymore. That's the simple and easy "lazy programmer" solution that you'd probably want anyway since it would have the least possible impact on stuff like cross-game compatibility.

 

[okispokis]

Shiny hunter here! I have long managed to successfully shiny hunt every Violet-catchable Pokemon in Paldea- with the sole exception of Pincurchin. Why?

This fuchsia f*ck.

As many as half my shiny hunts for Pincurchin ended with the game instead wasting my shiny encounter on Wattrel- which I have already caught multiple times. This is mainly because, regardless of which herb combination you use, regardless of which beach you hunt on, Wattrel always spawns more frequently in their shared territory. So why not go to a beach without Wattrel?

Because of THIS fuchsia f*ck.

Every beach where Pincurchin can appear, you have to deal with either Wattrel or Kilowattrel. Every hunt is statistically more likely to give you the bird, and at least in my copy if you get a repeat shiny, the game will NEVER spawn the right shiny no matter how much time you give it; I know, I've tried. The game just couldn't give me one area, one little sliver of beach where these Rattatas with wings do not spawn (or let Pincurchin chill in DLC Land away from the flying trash cans) and it drives me up a wall every time I try to go back for Pincurchin. SV generally has a bad habit of stacking same-typed Pokemon on top of each other, and this is far from the only time I've had my time wasted by shiny snipers (getting Zangoose was outright nightmarish). I get the logic with types like Water and Ice, but not every type needs to share territory like this! And even if this overlap has a logical reason- it has been one Arceus-damned year, let me have my Pincurchin with the orange butt-mouth already.

 

[Bog Monster]

…

Just use the outbreaks ya dingus.

 

[okispokis]

Just use the outbreaks ya dingus.

That strategy depends on actually getting a Pincurchin outbreak. Which my game refuses to do. Also I’ve gotten sniped by Wattrel even with outbreaks.

 

[AztecCroc]

That strategy depends on actually getting a Pincurchin outbreak. Which my game refuses to do. Also I’ve gotten sniped by Wattrel even with outbreaks.

You're still probably better off hunting at a Kilowattrel only beach than a Wattrel only one, Kilowattrel only spawn 3 times as much as Pincurchin rather then 6 and each spawn is less likely to be a group.

 

[R_N]

Okispokis I'm so sorry but I saw the recent news about Wattrel outbreaks and I just went "hasn't he suffered enough"

 

[Yung Dramps]

Ya ever heard of It's Kirby Time? It's this adorable series of Kirby picture books uploaded as videos on the NoA Youtube channel

In another life picrel could've been the art direction for a Pokemon equivalent or something equally charming, sweet and good-natured. Unfortunately, we're on the one where it's used for some bullshit p2w mobile puzzle game with gacha mechanics! Epic fail!

 

[DrrT]

Ya ever heard of It's Kirby Time? It's this adorable series of Kirby picture books uploaded as videos on the NoA Youtube channel

In another life picrel could've been the art direction for a Pokemon equivalent or something equally charming, sweet and good-natured. Unfortunately, we're on the one where it's used for some bullshit p2w mobile puzzle game with gacha mechanics! Epic fail!
View attachment 646639

The worst part is that it works. That Ogerpon is such a baby I considered downloading the game again, before remembering that not even Fuecoco made it worth for me. Maybe I'm just tired of gatchas tho, used to play a few of them back in the day.

 

[Bakugames]

you could not pay me to play one of pokemons random gacha games i've had enough. make normal sidegames or die by my hammer

 

[DrrT]

They had an Instagram account that posted textless versions of the cards so we could see them fully. It started on January 2023, so it isn't an old one.

...and they are discountinuing it. Why? Does it cost them something?

 

[R_N]

They had an Instagram account that posted textless versions of the cards so we could see them fully. It started on January 2023, so it isn't an old one.

...and they are discountinuing it. Why? Does it cost them something?

The wording implies they'll probably just post to their centralized official account

Creatures has announced they will be shutting down their pokeca_art_life Instagram account on July 31st. It was popular for posting textless illustrations of Pokemon cards.


In their announcement, Creatures states “We plan to post updates on our official [social accounts] from now on.” It’s unclear if this means they will continue to post them.

I assume they just want things under one umbrella if so. A business move, basically, to get people who like the card art to look at all their other posts.


Alternatively, sometimes business are just...weird int heir decisions and get overly precious about things. Keeping it open for only a year to post art always being in the plan because it was just some sort of Special Occasion. Or they didn't like people sharing the artwork with everyone for no discernible reason. Not just Pokemon -who did weird things like those virtual exhibits of cards that you weren't allowed to take screenshots of despite not really showing anything and only being around for like 2 weeks- but other companies do the same thing. One Piece showed Oda's full development notes for Film Red and had a big thing saying under no circumstances are you to store ANY (ofthispublicallyavailablecontent) of it and then I think took it down, just as an example.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Bug moves.

Ok, Leech Life and Bug Buzz make sense. I can see why those moves exist and are Bug-typed.

Then I look at X-Scissor, Fury Cutter, and U-Turn and I'm like...

 

[Bakugames]

Then I look at X-Scissor, Fury Cutter, and U-Turn and I'm like...

I think its just small type energy stuff, like fire punch vs thunder punch vs mach punch, or slash vs night slash vs aqua cutter, its just an offensive move coated with its type