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Big Lord of the Rings Mafia - Game Over! Forces of Sauron Win!
- Thread starter UncleSam
- Start date
Sure thing Pidge.
I suggest reading Snype's previous post. Most of what he said is the truth: The ring gives macle a one time extra kill on top of our usual 2/3 kill. However, he omitted one crucial point: If we use our kill, then the ring will lose its power to protect him. Additionally, the reverse is true if macle gets targeted by a night kill or is lynched, ie he will survive but lose the extra kill.
Of course, it should be obvious what will happen after we lynch Snype: We will still have the ring's power and so we will use our double kill to bring the numbers down to 3/3. After that the game will be a matter of you guys guessing who we orc protect correctly, probably on Day 16 since that gives us our highest chance of winning, eg 50%. That is where the game will be decided because after the next night our kill would be on cooldown, making the orc protect worthless once less than two of us are alive.
Ultimately, it is your choice. There is no way I can 100% prove what I am saying is true, so you will have to go with your gut. You should also keep in mind what happens if you don't lynch Snype. Either one of us will get lynched, you vote no lynch, or you guys will lynch macle to get rid of our double kill. This heavily favors Snype of course since he will just kill a villager next. Basically you will have to count on us using one of our night kills to get rid of snype and he has at least a 1/3 chance of stopping it by hooking us depending on how things go. I don't think either of us would want to draw the game out in this matter and make things overly political.
I suggest reading Snype's previous post. Most of what he said is the truth: The ring gives macle a one time extra kill on top of our usual 2/3 kill. However, he omitted one crucial point: If we use our kill, then the ring will lose its power to protect him. Additionally, the reverse is true if macle gets targeted by a night kill or is lynched, ie he will survive but lose the extra kill.
Of course, it should be obvious what will happen after we lynch Snype: We will still have the ring's power and so we will use our double kill to bring the numbers down to 3/3. After that the game will be a matter of you guys guessing who we orc protect correctly, probably on Day 16 since that gives us our highest chance of winning, eg 50%. That is where the game will be decided because after the next night our kill would be on cooldown, making the orc protect worthless once less than two of us are alive.
Ultimately, it is your choice. There is no way I can 100% prove what I am saying is true, so you will have to go with your gut. You should also keep in mind what happens if you don't lynch Snype. Either one of us will get lynched, you vote no lynch, or you guys will lynch macle to get rid of our double kill. This heavily favors Snype of course since he will just kill a villager next. Basically you will have to count on us using one of our night kills to get rid of snype and he has at least a 1/3 chance of stopping it by hooking us depending on how things go. I don't think either of us would want to draw the game out in this matter and make things overly political.
Steven Snype
What exactly is your full role PM? What reason(s) do you think the wolf should win? Is it true The Ring loses its protection power once used to kill?
What exactly is your full role PM? What reason(s) do you think the wolf should win? Is it true The Ring loses its protection power once used to kill?
He's an orc.
And this is a copy of the group PM sent to all orcs including myself:
If you are wondering about the ring, UncleSam only mentioned it in billy's role PM. He did not tell us the bit about the orc chieftain getting the ring after killing gollum until after billy died, and we weren't told what it would do until after we got it from Snype.
Does that answer your question?
Sorry, but getting rid of Snype will definitely not work.
current state
3
1
5
lynch wolf
3
0
5
maf kill 2 using ring and regular kill, and protect 1
3
3
lynch 1 maf (66% success)
2
3
maf kill 0, protect 0 (2/3 nightly kills used)
2
3
lynch 1 maf
1
3
maf kill 1 vill, protect 1
1
2
lynch 1 maf (fails due to protect)
1
1
maf kill 1 vill
1
0
maf wins
3
1
5
lynch wolf
3
0
5
maf kill 2 using ring and regular kill, and protect 1
3
3
lynch 1 maf (66% success)
2
3
maf kill 0, protect 0 (2/3 nightly kills used)
2
3
lynch 1 maf
1
3
maf kill 1 vill, protect 1
1
2
lynch 1 maf (fails due to protect)
1
1
maf kill 1 vill
1
0
maf wins
Pidge, incorrect. We idled, so we have kills for the next three consecutive nights.
D14: 5/3/1
N14: 5/3 (Lynch Snype)
D15: 3/3 (Use ring kill + 1/3 kills used)
N15: 2/3 (if you guess orc protect right, 66% chance)
D16: 2/2 (2/3 kills used. We have one more left.)
N16: 2/1 (We have no orc protect)
D17: 1/1 (3/3 kills used.)
N17: 1/1 (Orc Protect is 100%)
D18: 1/1 (We idle because we used up all our night kills, then it is your win).
D14: 5/3/1
N14: 5/3 (Lynch Snype)
D15: 3/3 (Use ring kill + 1/3 kills used)
N15: 2/3 (if you guess orc protect right, 66% chance)
D16: 2/2 (2/3 kills used. We have one more left.)
N16: 2/1 (We have no orc protect)
D17: 1/1 (3/3 kills used.)
N17: 1/1 (Orc Protect is 100%)
D18: 1/1 (We idle because we used up all our night kills, then it is your win).
Also Pidge, I might as well post the analysis for the case where we idle our orc protect the next day and save it for D16 as that gives us a 50% chance of winning instead of 33%.
D14: 5/3/1
N14: 5/3 (Lynch Snype)
D15: 3/3 (Use ring kill + 1/3 kills used)
N15: 2/3 (We idled orc protect)
D16: 2/2 (2/3 kills used. We have one more left.)
N16: 2/1 (if you guess orc protect right, 50% chance)
D17: 1/1 (3/3 kills used. We have no orc protect now so it is your win).
BTW if you don't understand why we have 3 normal kills for the next three nights, it is because we lost billy on N11, so the 3/3 starts from N12. We used our first kill to remove the ring from Snype. Then on N13 (last night), we idled. That means we can use our orc kill on N14, and then the 2/3 resets for N16, N17, and N18.
Does that make sense to you now?
D14: 5/3/1
N14: 5/3 (Lynch Snype)
D15: 3/3 (Use ring kill + 1/3 kills used)
N15: 2/3 (We idled orc protect)
D16: 2/2 (2/3 kills used. We have one more left.)
N16: 2/1 (if you guess orc protect right, 50% chance)
D17: 1/1 (3/3 kills used. We have no orc protect now so it is your win).
BTW if you don't understand why we have 3 normal kills for the next three nights, it is because we lost billy on N11, so the 3/3 starts from N12. We used our first kill to remove the ring from Snype. Then on N13 (last night), we idled. That means we can use our orc kill on N14, and then the 2/3 resets for N16, N17, and N18.
Does that make sense to you now?
Andy Snype
Mr. Music
Keep in mind about a couple of things village. Lynch me and the mafia will have 2 kills tonight. Since they have idled their kill last night and their protection is on cooldown right now, they have 2 killtonight and can use their protection on whoever doesn't own the ring tonight. Of course it's in my obvious benefit to go for the kingmaker as that is the only way i can win. However, do you really want to risk everything on a 33% chance tomorrow, followed by a 50/50? I really would not call it a lie as much as they backstabbed me first, so I just made this game harder for them. If you really want me to beg/provide my perspective as to why I think I deserve the victory more than the Mafia, I will post. I don't currently know if you want to try to guess for who you think has the ring as I have mentioned that should the orc ringbearer die, he becomes powerless. Bass is lying about if the orc-bearer uses the kill, he loses the BPV. Needless to say, things are quite heated up between me and the mafia atm. I don't think I will allow 3 kills to go onto the village tonight. Granted, a situation exists where it could lead to the kingmaker scenario as I had mentioned in the PM with Bass, but for all those kills to happen, I'd have to play another guessing game because from the mafia's perspective they could choose to send both their kills on a villager or one onto me, ending me, and so long as I don't make a move that encourages them, they cannot try to kill me.
I played another RNG game last night between: guessing between killing a mafiaman, killing a villager, or idling. Idling had the consequence of being useful if mafia idled or killed a villager, but gave the mafia zero reason to not kill me as they would win. Sure they'd lose the lynch, but with the 2 kills, they'd actually be able to win the lynch. If I killed a villager, that would just give the mafia an easy victory had they thought of killing me, though if they had idled or killed a villager, that would make both our lives easier. If I killed one of them, it deterred them from killing me as it just means they lose today's lynch and very likely the game, though if they idled, we're in this situation today (however, I forgot to account for what happens if they idled their teamkill above) and if they killed a villager, it forced them to stay in.
From a "rational" perspective as Bass likes to put it, I'm always going to advocate for my survival, but even from the probability, I would much rather take the odds of me/mafia crossfiring than you going through with the 1/6 chance tomorrow if you lynch me.
I cbf considering the case where we hit the ringbearer as I am tired right now, but someone can do the math.
I played another RNG game last night between: guessing between killing a mafiaman, killing a villager, or idling. Idling had the consequence of being useful if mafia idled or killed a villager, but gave the mafia zero reason to not kill me as they would win. Sure they'd lose the lynch, but with the 2 kills, they'd actually be able to win the lynch. If I killed a villager, that would just give the mafia an easy victory had they thought of killing me, though if they had idled or killed a villager, that would make both our lives easier. If I killed one of them, it deterred them from killing me as it just means they lose today's lynch and very likely the game, though if they idled, we're in this situation today (however, I forgot to account for what happens if they idled their teamkill above) and if they killed a villager, it forced them to stay in.
From a "rational" perspective as Bass likes to put it, I'm always going to advocate for my survival, but even from the probability, I would much rather take the odds of me/mafia crossfiring than you going through with the 1/6 chance tomorrow if you lynch me.
I cbf considering the case where we hit the ringbearer as I am tired right now, but someone can do the math.
Andy Snype
Mr. Music
had that ready to post before I headed out for dinner. Pidge do you want the entire game from my perspective as to why I should win? if so, that will have to wait until tomorrow.
I sent you the PM conversation about me/UncleSam about how that transferring could work.
Here is mine and von's full role PMs:
vonFiedler's role PM
Getting the ring and also losing it:
[23:35:16] <&Forte> anyway billy
[23:35:21] <&Forte> im sending out vote instructions
[23:35:54] <~Andrew> what?
EDIT: okay the hide tags make the quotes actually really hard to read so I am editing this post to remove them to hopefully make them more legible. I am breaking the rules to fix XF shitty formatting, which I think is completely reasonable to do.
I sent you the PM conversation about me/UncleSam about how that transferring could work.
Here is mine and von's full role PMs:
vonFiedler's role PM
Walrein's role PM. orc pm should be in there, but I don't know how to get that specifically from a PM through using Reply on XenForo.
When von died:
Getting the ring and also losing it:
Also while going through the PM conversation Pidge: mafia was surprised you didn't find this in #mambotime (while orcs were still separated from the high powers, which was how billymills had found out our alliance in bassgame and also because of DLE's reaction)
[23:35:16] <&Forte> anyway billy
[23:35:21] <&Forte> im sending out vote instructions
[23:35:54] <~Andrew> what?
EDIT: okay the hide tags make the quotes actually really hard to read so I am editing this post to remove them to hopefully make them more legible. I am breaking the rules to fix XF shitty formatting, which I think is completely reasonable to do.
Last edited:
*Warning: This post will be VERY tl;dr.*
You call that a defense? Let's pick it apart then.
This was not a backstab. It was a precaution. There is a big fucking difference. It should be very obvious that the actual backstab was you killing billy in order to reduce our night kill to 2/3. To add an analogy, it would be like claiming that your ally in a game of diplomacy "backstabbed" you just because he or she put a few extra armies near his or her borders. You'd be a laughing stock. Even if it was a "backstab", what difference does it make? If your goal is to throw the game to us no matter what, then we would inevitably *have* to backstab you. The fact that these points are still escaping you is mind boggling to me, and I do not think you are this dumb. At best, you are insulting everyone's intelligence. If you aren't though, then that just proves that if anything, you don't deserve to win this game because your play (and motivation for winning) are based off of pettiness. On the other hand, I have been playing to win 100% from the start, and played as much of a part as you in getting my team back in the game.
Notice the highlighted part in bold. Snype himself implied that lynching him would be the logical choice in the scenario we are in today. He also didn't call me out when I said "it would be a matter of whether village is willing to play the RNG" game, since initially I didn't realize that the kingmaker scenario Snype was looking for was to make it village, which is shown later in the log and in my earlier post, and Snype acknowledged that it is true.
The latter half of the log covers what I have already discussed previously in regards to who "backstabbed" first. It should prove that Snype is either a very petty person when it comes to mafia, or is bad a lying. Take your pick.
It really strikes me as pathetic that you are trying to play the "bass outed our alliance in bassgame to billy" card to convince Pidge not to lynch you. Even that point is irrelevant because your alliance in the third task of bassgame steamrolled the opposition regardless.
Finally, you still haven't countered my point about forcing the game to kingmaker would give the village a lower, if not 0% chance of winning. I said this game is a matter of "pick your poison" over and over again, and that's really what this is. If you have a chance of winning while getting the game over with as soon as possible, then I would strongly encourage you to take it, I know I would. If your choice is a matter of picking which side you think deserves to win, then I think the effort I have put in to convince you that I do compared to Snype should speak for itself. Feel free to ask me any more questions.
You call that a defense? Let's pick it apart then.
Fucking christ, you backstabbed us first. How can you still argue otherwise? Since the village doesn't know the situation and you didn't bother to explain it, I will. billy had the ability to change the orc chief at a moments notice, something that he kept hidden from all the leaders (and Snype) until he was thinking about using it. If you don't know already, the orc chief was the person who performed our backup hook and inspect. We also didn't know whether we could designate who could perform our kill once billy died, so all in all there was no reason not to do this. In the worst case scenario, it would make no strategic difference since again, we aren't killing you, just potentially preventing you from having too much influence over our night actions.
This was not a backstab. It was a precaution. There is a big fucking difference. It should be very obvious that the actual backstab was you killing billy in order to reduce our night kill to 2/3. To add an analogy, it would be like claiming that your ally in a game of diplomacy "backstabbed" you just because he or she put a few extra armies near his or her borders. You'd be a laughing stock. Even if it was a "backstab", what difference does it make? If your goal is to throw the game to us no matter what, then we would inevitably *have* to backstab you. The fact that these points are still escaping you is mind boggling to me, and I do not think you are this dumb. At best, you are insulting everyone's intelligence. If you aren't though, then that just proves that if anything, you don't deserve to win this game because your play (and motivation for winning) are based off of pettiness. On the other hand, I have been playing to win 100% from the start, and played as much of a part as you in getting my team back in the game.
Oh boy. This is the real point that matters here because regardless of whatever else you say, there is no reason *not* to lynch you if I am telling the truth. While I will add the disclaimer that there is no way to 100% confirm that I am telling the truth, I will now post the full log of my conversation with Snype last night which contains several tidbits that more or less confirm that I am telling the truth. Here it is:
[19:02:45] <Forte> [19:02:22] <Forte> im just curious
[19:02:45] <Forte> [19:02:36] <Forte> about how you expect this game to play out
[19:03:38] <Andrew> hm?
[19:03:52] <Forte> like
[19:03:58] <Forte> are you seriously intending to draw this game out
[19:04:01] <Forte> to kingmaker?
[19:04:27] <Andrew> yeah
[19:05:02] <Forte> because as you know the alternative is rng
[19:05:09] <Forte> lol
[19:05:15] <Forte> it is
[19:05:19] <Forte> "pick your poison"
[19:06:59] <Andrew> what do you think
[19:07:01] <Andrew> you will do tonight?
[19:07:29] <Forte> dont know
[19:07:35] <Forte> i honestly think
[19:07:39] <Andrew> you can either kill me or any of the villagers
[19:07:40] <Forte> the outcome will be the same
[19:07:46] <Forte> ie
[19:07:52] <Forte> well if we kill you
[19:07:55] <Forte> and then you kill one of us
[19:07:56] <Forte> we lose
[19:07:59] <Andrew> nah
[19:08:00] <Andrew> you RNG it out
[19:08:13] <Andrew> because macle kill
[19:08:16] <Andrew> happens
[19:08:20] <Forte> we wont have macle kill
[19:08:24] <Forte> because he will just get lynched
[19:08:31] <Forte> removing the ring
[19:08:47] <Forte> that would mean we would have no night kill
[19:09:12] <Andrew> you have your own kill
[19:09:13] <Andrew> don't you?
[19:09:18] <Forte> orc kill
[19:09:23] <Forte> will be on cooldown after tonight
[19:09:30] <Forte> unless
[19:09:41] <Forte> using it on you last night didnt count
[19:09:46] <Andrew> ofc it counts
[19:09:50] <Andrew> you broke my dpv
[19:09:54] <Forte> so ok
[19:10:02] <Forte> it will def be on cooldown
[19:10:06] <Forte> unless we idle
[19:10:43] <Forte> however im wondering if what you do will make a differenced
[19:10:47] <Forte> you kill one of us
[19:10:48] <Forte> we lynch village
[19:10:51] <Forte> you kill a village
[19:10:53] <Forte> you lynch one of us
[19:10:56] <Andrew> if i kill one of you i insta lose
[19:11:06] <Andrew> we do not outvote the village.
[19:11:37] <Andrew> 3 of you + me
[19:11:39] <Andrew> = 4.5
[19:12:00] <Forte> that would only be the case if we also idle
[19:12:03] <Andrew> and this is assuming
[19:12:05] <Andrew> i end up killing
[19:12:07] <Andrew> hwoever you send to hook
[19:12:11] <Andrew> kill*
[19:12:19] <Forte> lol
[19:12:25] <Andrew> or you idle
[19:12:26] <Forte> so you are worried about that
[19:12:31] <Andrew> yes
[19:12:32] <Andrew> i am
[19:12:35] <Forte> well
[19:12:37] <Forte> imo
[19:12:47] <Forte> we wouldnt have control of the lynch
[19:12:55] <Forte> but im not sure if the village would lynch you necessarily
[19:13:00] <Andrew> they would
[19:13:04] <Andrew> i'm the one with the biggest vote threat
[19:13:07] <Andrew> and have an extra kill
[19:13:13] <Andrew> in their eyes
[19:13:24] <Forte> you told them that macle has an extra kill though
[19:13:27] <Forte> so in that scenario
[19:13:33] <Forte> we would have 2 kills
[19:13:41] <Forte> bringing it to 3/3
[19:13:46] <Forte> then it is rng
[19:13:48] <Forte> lol
[19:13:53] <Forte> my point is
[19:13:59] <Forte> if village offs you they still have to contend with that
[19:14:05] <Forte> well
[19:14:08] <Forte> maybe that is what they want
[19:14:10] <Forte> idk
[19:15:17] <Forte> of course i wouldnt encourage you to kill us!
[19:15:42] <Forte> or you could kill macle to remove the ring from the equation
[19:15:46] <Forte> you have a lot of options
[19:15:54] <Andrew> but is macle the one
[19:15:57] <Andrew> that's protected?
[19:16:01] <Forte> by the ring?
[19:16:06] <Andrew> no
[19:16:07] <Andrew> orc protection
[19:16:10] <Andrew> silly
[19:16:15] <Forte> perhaps!
[19:16:21] <Andrew> and you're not gonna tell me that
[19:16:23] <Andrew> because you do'nt trust me
[19:16:24] <Forte> duh
[19:16:28] <Andrew> and i'm tired of your sense of distrust
[19:16:30] <Andrew> so i'm going to kill one of you
[19:16:36] <Andrew> forcing you to kill a villager
[19:16:56] <Andrew> idgf if it's rational or not i'm tired of this
[19:17:05] <Andrew> but i'm the kingmaker
[19:17:10] <Andrew> currently
[19:17:58] <Forte> if you are tired of this then you would just finish off the village and end the game
[19:18:34] <Andrew> nah i'd rather punish you
[19:20:22] <Forte> ok but
[19:20:30] <Forte> idk about you but i still want to win
[19:20:35] <Forte> does your resolve match mine?
[19:21:09] <Forte> judging by how you are acting i guess not
[19:21:57] <Forte> anyway it's up to you
[19:22:24] <Andrew> i have put in enough effort that i wanted to to win this game
[19:22:27] <Andrew> and you are merely being difficult
[19:22:30] <Andrew> to make a choice
[19:22:33] <Andrew> encouraging me to rand
[19:22:38] <Andrew> and i'm tired of playing guessing games
[19:22:44] <Forte> guessing games?
[19:22:46] <Andrew> i've already been correct with sending soviet
[19:22:50] <Andrew> telling you to kill rey
[19:22:52] <Andrew> and xenu
[19:23:09] <Forte> those were totally rand lol
[19:23:10] <Forte> come on
[19:23:17] <Andrew> nah
[19:23:19] <Andrew> i'm done
[19:23:21] <Forte> ...
[19:23:23] <Andrew> and i'm tired
[19:23:31] <Forte> i dont get how im being difficult
[19:23:34] <Forte> what do you want from me
[19:23:35] <Forte> or expect
[19:23:41] <Andrew> honesty
[19:23:45] <Andrew> if you actually think you deserve the win
[19:23:48] <Andrew> and some level of trust
[19:23:54] <Andrew> because you can't win by yourself
[19:24:06] <Forte> i think i deserve to win
[19:24:34] <Forte> what do you want me to be honest about
[19:24:41] <Forte> i literally told you
[19:24:50] <Forte> that you might not lose if you kill one of us
[19:25:11] <Forte> having you do that though is not in my interest regardless
[19:25:21] <Forte> i was being honest about that
[19:29:36] <Andrew> you're still being difficult
[19:29:42] <Forte> what am i being difficult about
[19:29:43] <Andrew> as far as cooperation goes
[19:29:54] <Forte> because our team doesnt trsut you 100%
[19:29:55] <Forte> ?
[19:29:56] <Andrew> one: you're not telling me who the protection is being used on
[19:30:00] <Andrew> tough
[19:30:02] <Andrew> shit
[19:30:12] <Andrew> i am in a situation
[19:30:13] <Andrew> where
[19:30:18] <Andrew> each "best move" i have
[19:30:20] <Andrew> in a scenario
[19:30:23] <Forte> well then
[19:30:25] <Andrew> coresponds to worst move scenario
[19:30:27] <Andrew> based on your move
[19:30:31] <Forte> if you are so worried about hitting who we protect by mistake
[19:30:38] <Forte> then you might as well not even try!
[19:30:42] <Forte> because
[19:30:43] <Andrew> nah
[19:30:47] <Andrew> i'd rather make you lose
[19:30:50] <Andrew> as punishment
[19:30:59] <Forte> the numbers would be the same
[19:31:02] <Forte> then again
[19:31:08] <Forte> in all the painstaking analysis this morning
[19:31:16] <Forte> i didnt bother accounting for you just blowing up on us
[19:31:20] <Forte> over such a petty reason
[19:32:19] <Forte> even if you hit someone who is protected by orc protect
[19:32:21] <Forte> it wont matter
[19:32:23] <Forte> lets see
[19:32:31] <Forte> it will be 5/4/1
[19:32:35] <Forte> assuming we idle
[19:32:39] <Forte> if not, 4/4/1
[19:33:00] <Forte> then you lynch one of us or go for macle
[19:33:35] <Forte> you'd probably do the latter so we dont kill you
[19:33:51] <Forte> then you kill a villager, 3/4/1
[19:34:05] <Forte> or kill one of us if you are afraid of orc protect
[19:34:10] <Forte> wait not
[19:34:19] <Forte> if you did that then village has control of the lynch
[19:34:30] <Forte> i guess what you are afraid of
[19:34:42] <Forte> is failing to lynch one of us later on due to orc protect
[19:40:46] <Forte> you get the point though
[19:42:27] <Andrew> no
[19:42:33] <Andrew> i am afraid of the possibility
[19:42:34] <Andrew> where i idle
[19:42:38] <Andrew> and you end up killing me instead
[19:42:51] <Andrew> because i don't think i cna trust your word
[19:43:01] <Andrew> and rather than idle and allow that possibility i must try to kill you
[19:43:07] <Andrew> to deter you from killing me.
[19:43:49] <Andrew> if you end up killing a village while i kill one of you, that's fine with me
[19:45:16] <Forte> well in that case i will tell you exactly what we are doing
[19:45:19] <Forte> or at least
[19:45:22] <Forte> will most likely do
[19:45:28] <Forte> which is
[19:45:29] <Forte> idling
[19:45:47] <Forte> we are going to leave it in your hands
[19:45:57] <Andrew> so i'll kill one of you then
[19:46:01] <Andrew> because i'd rather have you kill a villager.
[19:46:06] <Forte> lol
[19:46:30] <Forte> well i mean
[19:46:34] <Forte> you wont know until after the fact
[19:46:49] <Andrew> 33% chance worst-case scenario
[19:46:50] <Andrew> 100% chance
[19:46:52] <Andrew> best case.
[19:47:02] <Forte> how does that work
[19:47:11] <Andrew> macle is the one tha'ts protected
[19:47:15] <Andrew> none of the 3 of you are.
[19:47:22] <Andrew> er sorry
[19:47:24] <Andrew> that math is off
[19:47:31] <Andrew> i didn't account for who is actually performing the kill
[19:47:34] <Forte> 100+33 > 100 noob
[19:47:39] <Andrew> 50% chance is absolute worst case scenario
[19:47:47] <Andrew> 33% is best case scenario.
[19:48:02] <Andrew> 50% chance ensures that your kill goes off, assuming you trust me which i don't think you do
[19:48:07] <Andrew> about who i will say i will not kill.
[19:48:20] <Forte> "our kill goes off"
[19:48:20] <Andrew> so you send that person to perform the kill tonight.
[19:48:25] <Forte> didnt i just say we will likely idle?
[19:48:30] <Forte> isnt it you not trusting me?
[19:48:37] <Andrew> this is the guessing game that i'm honestly tired of playing
[19:48:45] <Forte> too bad
[19:48:54] <Forte> by design
[19:49:08] <Forte> this game has become a matter of guessing
[19:49:13] <Forte> though quite frankly
[19:49:18] <Forte> no matter what happens
[19:49:25] <Forte> there are only two outcomes
[19:49:32] <Forte> we kill you and roll the dice
[19:49:36] <Forte> or the game converges to kingmaker
[19:49:47] <Forte> i merely point this out because
[19:49:52] <Forte> assuming we dont kill you
[19:50:08] <Forte> whatever else you do will likely converge to the kingmaker scenari
[19:50:08] <Forte> o
[19:50:34] <Forte> only difference being that misfiring on the guy we protect would make that scenario converge more slowly
[19:50:40] <Forte> but it will still happen
[19:50:54] <Forte> that was my entire purpose for talking to you right now
[19:50:59] <Forte> because im not sure if you realized that
[19:51:06] <Andrew> which kingmaker scenario
[19:51:07] <Andrew> are you talking about?
[19:51:14] <Forte> ie
[19:51:19] <Forte> the numbers get really low
[19:51:20] <Andrew> me being kingmaker
[19:51:21] <Andrew> or them?
[19:51:26] <Forte> it depends slightly
[19:51:31] <Forte> lets say it is 1/2/1
[19:51:45] <Forte> if we kill you and you kill us
[19:51:48] <Forte> village wins
[19:51:58] <Forte> if you kill village, we win
[19:52:23] <Forte> the other possibility is 2/1/1
[19:52:26] <Andrew> if it is 1/2/1 it goes to village kingmaker scenario.
[19:52:34] <Forte> im referring to at night
[19:52:38] <Andrew> i'm talking wolf/mafia/village
[19:52:39] <Andrew> yes
[19:52:42] <Andrew> it goes to vilage kingmaker
[19:52:44] <Andrew> i hook one of you
[19:52:47] <Andrew> kill the other.
[19:52:49] <Andrew> 1/1/1
[19:52:52] <Andrew> village kingmaker.
[19:52:58] <Forte> point is
[19:53:08] <Forte> someone ends up being kingmaker
[19:53:20] <Andrew> and right now that's me
[19:53:22] <Forte> it is inevitable because
[19:53:25] <Andrew> and i don't want to be kingmaker
[19:53:33] <Forte> everyone knows everything
[19:53:34] <Forte> ok
[19:53:35] <Forte> i get that
[19:53:45] <Forte> the point is though that someone has to be kingmaker
[19:53:50] <Forte> you cannot win any other way
[19:53:57] <Andrew> oh i realized that
[19:54:00] <Forte> so
[19:54:01] <Andrew> a long tiem ago
[19:54:11] <Forte> any scenario that doesnt involve us killing you
[19:54:13] <Forte> will converge to that
[19:54:15] <Forte> no matter what.
[19:54:23] <Andrew> yup
[19:54:26] <Andrew> so i have to make it so
[19:54:30] <Andrew> any scenario where you do kill me
[19:54:33] <Andrew> becomes a shitty dice roll for you
[19:54:48] <Forte> surprise! every scenario that involves us killing you is either a dice roll
[19:54:50] <Forte> or a flat out loss
[19:55:19] <Andrew> i had a 100% win chance too
[19:55:19] <Andrew> to win
[19:55:19] <Forte> we wont kill you because there is a high enough chance that a flat out loss could happen
[19:55:21] <Andrew> and then you killed me
[19:55:31] <Andrew> so i don't want you to win
[19:55:33] <Andrew> anymore.
[19:55:52] <Forte> are you encouraging me to kill you right now?
[19:56:01] <Forte> that would certainly help your cause
[19:56:31] <Andrew> do you want to risk the dice roll?
[19:57:00] <Andrew> after all the effort you've put into it?
[19:57:05] <Forte> of course not
[19:57:06] <Forte> but
[19:57:09] <Forte> i have no choice
[19:57:13] <Forte> just as you have no choice
[19:57:18] <Forte> of forcing a kingmaker
[19:57:20] <Forte> they both suck
[19:57:27] <Forte> but because of the way this game was designed
[19:57:28] <Andrew> i'm a wolf
[19:57:29] <Forte> that is how it is
[19:57:35] <Andrew> i always have to force a kingmaker
[19:57:38] <Forte> no
[19:57:44] <Forte> there is a huge difference between this game
[19:57:46] <Forte> and the wolf in other games
[19:57:55] <Forte> the wolf never knows 2/3 of the entire mafia
[19:57:58] <Forte> even in mafia mafia 2
[19:58:02] <Forte> the wolf didnt know who the mafia were
[19:58:11] <Forte> if the wolf stays hidden
[19:58:12] <Andrew> in the end-game scenario
[19:58:13] <Andrew> though
[19:58:15] <Forte> he is not kingmaker
[19:58:17] <Andrew> the wolf is undoubtedly outed
[19:58:21] <Forte> but because you were a mole
[19:58:24] <Forte> you had to out yourself
[19:58:24] <Forte> lol
[19:58:32] <Forte> that sounds ironic but it is true
[19:58:37] <Andrew> nah i had to out myself
[19:58:37] <Andrew> because
[19:58:43] <Andrew> of the threat of my own survival
[19:58:53] <Andrew> i evne used my own tools to help a secure success towards us winning
[19:58:57] <Andrew> and then you try to backstab me?
[19:59:05] <Andrew> that's p awful teamwork
[19:59:11] <Forte> you backstabbed first
[19:59:14] <Forte> for fuck sake
[19:59:19] <Andrew> no
[19:59:20] <Andrew> you did
[19:59:22] <Forte> im not going to count billy's chief shiit
[19:59:23] <Andrew> by removing me from power
[19:59:25] <Andrew> i count it
[19:59:27] <Forte> because that is completely irrelevant
[19:59:29] <Andrew> because it's something that the mafia did
[19:59:31] <Forte> it. did. nothing.
[19:59:41] <Andrew> it told me that you don't trust me at all
[19:59:43] <Andrew> which is good enough
[19:59:44] <Andrew> for backstabbing
[19:59:52] <Forte> your logic is twisted
[19:59:54] <Forte> dude
[19:59:59] <Andrew> i punished billy
[19:59:59] <Forte> if you want us to win
[20:00:03] <Forte> genuinely
[20:00:09] <Andrew> because of his difficult demeanor this entire game
[20:00:09] <Forte> then whether we fully trust you or not
[20:00:12] <Forte> is irrelevant
[20:00:16] <Andrew> and his overall hostility towards the traitor
[20:00:20] <Andrew> how much you claimed he ragequit
[20:00:21] <Forte> get that through your thick skull
[20:00:32] <Andrew> it's a nobrainer to kill billy
[20:00:34] <Forte> billy's last ragequit wasnt about you
[20:00:39] <Forte> it was because of UncleSam
[20:00:47] <Forte> actually
[20:00:51] <Forte> they were 100% due to UncleSam
[20:01:16] <Forte> the first time was because UncleSam told him to "use evidence" to find the traitor when there was practically none
[20:01:26] <Andrew> if there's a shitty person to deal with that cannot be controlled, you eliminate him to make the rest of negotiations easier.
[20:01:28] <Forte> the second one was due to UncleSam saying something contradictory
[20:01:37] <Forte> regarding his orc chief veto
[20:02:21] <Forte> billy wasn't that shitty to deal with
[20:02:34] <Forte> he just didnt fully trust you
[20:02:39] <Forte> like any rational person would
[20:02:45] <Forte> UncleSam gave him that role for a reason
[20:02:50] <Forte> even though
[20:02:54] <Forte> i ended up being a waste anyway
[20:02:54] No such nick/channel
[20:02:55] <Forte> ...
[20:02:56] No such nick/channel
[20:06:44] <Forte> have you calmed down?
[20:19:00] <Forte> well whatever the case we are def idling tonight
[20:19:08] <Forte> the rest is up to you man!
[19:02:45] <Forte> [19:02:36] <Forte> about how you expect this game to play out
[19:03:38] <Andrew> hm?
[19:03:52] <Forte> like
[19:03:58] <Forte> are you seriously intending to draw this game out
[19:04:01] <Forte> to kingmaker?
[19:04:27] <Andrew> yeah
[19:05:02] <Forte> because as you know the alternative is rng
[19:05:09] <Forte> lol
[19:05:15] <Forte> it is
[19:05:19] <Forte> "pick your poison"
[19:06:59] <Andrew> what do you think
[19:07:01] <Andrew> you will do tonight?
[19:07:29] <Forte> dont know
[19:07:35] <Forte> i honestly think
[19:07:39] <Andrew> you can either kill me or any of the villagers
[19:07:40] <Forte> the outcome will be the same
[19:07:46] <Forte> ie
[19:07:52] <Forte> well if we kill you
[19:07:55] <Forte> and then you kill one of us
[19:07:56] <Forte> we lose
[19:07:59] <Andrew> nah
[19:08:00] <Andrew> you RNG it out
[19:08:13] <Andrew> because macle kill
[19:08:16] <Andrew> happens
[19:08:20] <Forte> we wont have macle kill
[19:08:24] <Forte> because he will just get lynched
[19:08:31] <Forte> removing the ring
[19:08:47] <Forte> that would mean we would have no night kill
[19:09:12] <Andrew> you have your own kill
[19:09:13] <Andrew> don't you?
[19:09:18] <Forte> orc kill
[19:09:23] <Forte> will be on cooldown after tonight
[19:09:30] <Forte> unless
[19:09:41] <Forte> using it on you last night didnt count
[19:09:46] <Andrew> ofc it counts
[19:09:50] <Andrew> you broke my dpv
[19:09:54] <Forte> so ok
[19:10:02] <Forte> it will def be on cooldown
[19:10:06] <Forte> unless we idle
[19:10:43] <Forte> however im wondering if what you do will make a differenced
[19:10:47] <Forte> you kill one of us
[19:10:48] <Forte> we lynch village
[19:10:51] <Forte> you kill a village
[19:10:53] <Forte> you lynch one of us
[19:10:56] <Andrew> if i kill one of you i insta lose
[19:11:06] <Andrew> we do not outvote the village.
[19:11:37] <Andrew> 3 of you + me
[19:11:39] <Andrew> = 4.5
[19:12:00] <Forte> that would only be the case if we also idle
[19:12:03] <Andrew> and this is assuming
[19:12:05] <Andrew> i end up killing
[19:12:07] <Andrew> hwoever you send to hook
[19:12:11] <Andrew> kill*
[19:12:19] <Forte> lol
[19:12:25] <Andrew> or you idle
[19:12:26] <Forte> so you are worried about that
[19:12:31] <Andrew> yes
[19:12:32] <Andrew> i am
[19:12:35] <Forte> well
[19:12:37] <Forte> imo
[19:12:47] <Forte> we wouldnt have control of the lynch
[19:12:55] <Forte> but im not sure if the village would lynch you necessarily
[19:13:00] <Andrew> they would
[19:13:04] <Andrew> i'm the one with the biggest vote threat
[19:13:07] <Andrew> and have an extra kill
[19:13:13] <Andrew> in their eyes
[19:13:24] <Forte> you told them that macle has an extra kill though
[19:13:27] <Forte> so in that scenario
[19:13:33] <Forte> we would have 2 kills
[19:13:41] <Forte> bringing it to 3/3
[19:13:46] <Forte> then it is rng
[19:13:48] <Forte> lol
[19:13:53] <Forte> my point is
[19:13:59] <Forte> if village offs you they still have to contend with that
[19:14:05] <Forte> well
[19:14:08] <Forte> maybe that is what they want
[19:14:10] <Forte> idk
[19:15:17] <Forte> of course i wouldnt encourage you to kill us!
[19:15:42] <Forte> or you could kill macle to remove the ring from the equation
[19:15:46] <Forte> you have a lot of options
[19:15:54] <Andrew> but is macle the one
[19:15:57] <Andrew> that's protected?
[19:16:01] <Forte> by the ring?
[19:16:06] <Andrew> no
[19:16:07] <Andrew> orc protection
[19:16:10] <Andrew> silly
[19:16:15] <Forte> perhaps!
[19:16:21] <Andrew> and you're not gonna tell me that
[19:16:23] <Andrew> because you do'nt trust me
[19:16:24] <Forte> duh
[19:16:28] <Andrew> and i'm tired of your sense of distrust
[19:16:30] <Andrew> so i'm going to kill one of you
[19:16:36] <Andrew> forcing you to kill a villager
[19:16:56] <Andrew> idgf if it's rational or not i'm tired of this
[19:17:05] <Andrew> but i'm the kingmaker
[19:17:10] <Andrew> currently
[19:17:58] <Forte> if you are tired of this then you would just finish off the village and end the game
[19:18:34] <Andrew> nah i'd rather punish you
[19:20:22] <Forte> ok but
[19:20:30] <Forte> idk about you but i still want to win
[19:20:35] <Forte> does your resolve match mine?
[19:21:09] <Forte> judging by how you are acting i guess not
[19:21:57] <Forte> anyway it's up to you
[19:22:24] <Andrew> i have put in enough effort that i wanted to to win this game
[19:22:27] <Andrew> and you are merely being difficult
[19:22:30] <Andrew> to make a choice
[19:22:33] <Andrew> encouraging me to rand
[19:22:38] <Andrew> and i'm tired of playing guessing games
[19:22:44] <Forte> guessing games?
[19:22:46] <Andrew> i've already been correct with sending soviet
[19:22:50] <Andrew> telling you to kill rey
[19:22:52] <Andrew> and xenu
[19:23:09] <Forte> those were totally rand lol
[19:23:10] <Forte> come on
[19:23:17] <Andrew> nah
[19:23:19] <Andrew> i'm done
[19:23:21] <Forte> ...
[19:23:23] <Andrew> and i'm tired
[19:23:31] <Forte> i dont get how im being difficult
[19:23:34] <Forte> what do you want from me
[19:23:35] <Forte> or expect
[19:23:41] <Andrew> honesty
[19:23:45] <Andrew> if you actually think you deserve the win
[19:23:48] <Andrew> and some level of trust
[19:23:54] <Andrew> because you can't win by yourself
[19:24:06] <Forte> i think i deserve to win
[19:24:34] <Forte> what do you want me to be honest about
[19:24:41] <Forte> i literally told you
[19:24:50] <Forte> that you might not lose if you kill one of us
[19:25:11] <Forte> having you do that though is not in my interest regardless
[19:25:21] <Forte> i was being honest about that
[19:29:36] <Andrew> you're still being difficult
[19:29:42] <Forte> what am i being difficult about
[19:29:43] <Andrew> as far as cooperation goes
[19:29:54] <Forte> because our team doesnt trsut you 100%
[19:29:55] <Forte> ?
[19:29:56] <Andrew> one: you're not telling me who the protection is being used on
[19:30:00] <Andrew> tough
[19:30:02] <Andrew> shit
[19:30:12] <Andrew> i am in a situation
[19:30:13] <Andrew> where
[19:30:18] <Andrew> each "best move" i have
[19:30:20] <Andrew> in a scenario
[19:30:23] <Forte> well then
[19:30:25] <Andrew> coresponds to worst move scenario
[19:30:27] <Andrew> based on your move
[19:30:31] <Forte> if you are so worried about hitting who we protect by mistake
[19:30:38] <Forte> then you might as well not even try!
[19:30:42] <Forte> because
[19:30:43] <Andrew> nah
[19:30:47] <Andrew> i'd rather make you lose
[19:30:50] <Andrew> as punishment
[19:30:59] <Forte> the numbers would be the same
[19:31:02] <Forte> then again
[19:31:08] <Forte> in all the painstaking analysis this morning
[19:31:16] <Forte> i didnt bother accounting for you just blowing up on us
[19:31:20] <Forte> over such a petty reason
[19:32:19] <Forte> even if you hit someone who is protected by orc protect
[19:32:21] <Forte> it wont matter
[19:32:23] <Forte> lets see
[19:32:31] <Forte> it will be 5/4/1
[19:32:35] <Forte> assuming we idle
[19:32:39] <Forte> if not, 4/4/1
[19:33:00] <Forte> then you lynch one of us or go for macle
[19:33:35] <Forte> you'd probably do the latter so we dont kill you
[19:33:51] <Forte> then you kill a villager, 3/4/1
[19:34:05] <Forte> or kill one of us if you are afraid of orc protect
[19:34:10] <Forte> wait not
[19:34:19] <Forte> if you did that then village has control of the lynch
[19:34:30] <Forte> i guess what you are afraid of
[19:34:42] <Forte> is failing to lynch one of us later on due to orc protect
[19:40:46] <Forte> you get the point though
[19:42:27] <Andrew> no
[19:42:33] <Andrew> i am afraid of the possibility
[19:42:34] <Andrew> where i idle
[19:42:38] <Andrew> and you end up killing me instead
[19:42:51] <Andrew> because i don't think i cna trust your word
[19:43:01] <Andrew> and rather than idle and allow that possibility i must try to kill you
[19:43:07] <Andrew> to deter you from killing me.
[19:43:49] <Andrew> if you end up killing a village while i kill one of you, that's fine with me
[19:45:16] <Forte> well in that case i will tell you exactly what we are doing
[19:45:19] <Forte> or at least
[19:45:22] <Forte> will most likely do
[19:45:28] <Forte> which is
[19:45:29] <Forte> idling
[19:45:47] <Forte> we are going to leave it in your hands
[19:45:57] <Andrew> so i'll kill one of you then
[19:46:01] <Andrew> because i'd rather have you kill a villager.
[19:46:06] <Forte> lol
[19:46:30] <Forte> well i mean
[19:46:34] <Forte> you wont know until after the fact
[19:46:49] <Andrew> 33% chance worst-case scenario
[19:46:50] <Andrew> 100% chance
[19:46:52] <Andrew> best case.
[19:47:02] <Forte> how does that work
[19:47:11] <Andrew> macle is the one tha'ts protected
[19:47:15] <Andrew> none of the 3 of you are.
[19:47:22] <Andrew> er sorry
[19:47:24] <Andrew> that math is off
[19:47:31] <Andrew> i didn't account for who is actually performing the kill
[19:47:34] <Forte> 100+33 > 100 noob
[19:47:39] <Andrew> 50% chance is absolute worst case scenario
[19:47:47] <Andrew> 33% is best case scenario.
[19:48:02] <Andrew> 50% chance ensures that your kill goes off, assuming you trust me which i don't think you do
[19:48:07] <Andrew> about who i will say i will not kill.
[19:48:20] <Forte> "our kill goes off"
[19:48:20] <Andrew> so you send that person to perform the kill tonight.
[19:48:25] <Forte> didnt i just say we will likely idle?
[19:48:30] <Forte> isnt it you not trusting me?
[19:48:37] <Andrew> this is the guessing game that i'm honestly tired of playing
[19:48:45] <Forte> too bad
[19:48:54] <Forte> by design
[19:49:08] <Forte> this game has become a matter of guessing
[19:49:13] <Forte> though quite frankly
[19:49:18] <Forte> no matter what happens
[19:49:25] <Forte> there are only two outcomes
[19:49:32] <Forte> we kill you and roll the dice
[19:49:36] <Forte> or the game converges to kingmaker
[19:49:47] <Forte> i merely point this out because
[19:49:52] <Forte> assuming we dont kill you
[19:50:08] <Forte> whatever else you do will likely converge to the kingmaker scenari
[19:50:08] <Forte> o
[19:50:34] <Forte> only difference being that misfiring on the guy we protect would make that scenario converge more slowly
[19:50:40] <Forte> but it will still happen
[19:50:54] <Forte> that was my entire purpose for talking to you right now
[19:50:59] <Forte> because im not sure if you realized that
[19:51:06] <Andrew> which kingmaker scenario
[19:51:07] <Andrew> are you talking about?
[19:51:14] <Forte> ie
[19:51:19] <Forte> the numbers get really low
[19:51:20] <Andrew> me being kingmaker
[19:51:21] <Andrew> or them?
[19:51:26] <Forte> it depends slightly
[19:51:31] <Forte> lets say it is 1/2/1
[19:51:45] <Forte> if we kill you and you kill us
[19:51:48] <Forte> village wins
[19:51:58] <Forte> if you kill village, we win
[19:52:23] <Forte> the other possibility is 2/1/1
[19:52:26] <Andrew> if it is 1/2/1 it goes to village kingmaker scenario.
[19:52:34] <Forte> im referring to at night
[19:52:38] <Andrew> i'm talking wolf/mafia/village
[19:52:39] <Andrew> yes
[19:52:42] <Andrew> it goes to vilage kingmaker
[19:52:44] <Andrew> i hook one of you
[19:52:47] <Andrew> kill the other.
[19:52:49] <Andrew> 1/1/1
[19:52:52] <Andrew> village kingmaker.
[19:52:58] <Forte> point is
[19:53:08] <Forte> someone ends up being kingmaker
[19:53:20] <Andrew> and right now that's me
[19:53:22] <Forte> it is inevitable because
[19:53:25] <Andrew> and i don't want to be kingmaker
[19:53:33] <Forte> everyone knows everything
[19:53:34] <Forte> ok
[19:53:35] <Forte> i get that
[19:53:45] <Forte> the point is though that someone has to be kingmaker
[19:53:50] <Forte> you cannot win any other way
[19:53:57] <Andrew> oh i realized that
[19:54:00] <Forte> so
[19:54:01] <Andrew> a long tiem ago
[19:54:11] <Forte> any scenario that doesnt involve us killing you
[19:54:13] <Forte> will converge to that
[19:54:15] <Forte> no matter what.
[19:54:23] <Andrew> yup
[19:54:26] <Andrew> so i have to make it so
[19:54:30] <Andrew> any scenario where you do kill me
[19:54:33] <Andrew> becomes a shitty dice roll for you
[19:54:48] <Forte> surprise! every scenario that involves us killing you is either a dice roll
[19:54:50] <Forte> or a flat out loss
[19:55:19] <Andrew> i had a 100% win chance too
[19:55:19] <Andrew> to win
[19:55:19] <Forte> we wont kill you because there is a high enough chance that a flat out loss could happen
[19:55:21] <Andrew> and then you killed me
[19:55:31] <Andrew> so i don't want you to win
[19:55:33] <Andrew> anymore.
[19:55:52] <Forte> are you encouraging me to kill you right now?
[19:56:01] <Forte> that would certainly help your cause
[19:56:31] <Andrew> do you want to risk the dice roll?
[19:57:00] <Andrew> after all the effort you've put into it?
[19:57:05] <Forte> of course not
[19:57:06] <Forte> but
[19:57:09] <Forte> i have no choice
[19:57:13] <Forte> just as you have no choice
[19:57:18] <Forte> of forcing a kingmaker
[19:57:20] <Forte> they both suck
[19:57:27] <Forte> but because of the way this game was designed
[19:57:28] <Andrew> i'm a wolf
[19:57:29] <Forte> that is how it is
[19:57:35] <Andrew> i always have to force a kingmaker
[19:57:38] <Forte> no
[19:57:44] <Forte> there is a huge difference between this game
[19:57:46] <Forte> and the wolf in other games
[19:57:55] <Forte> the wolf never knows 2/3 of the entire mafia
[19:57:58] <Forte> even in mafia mafia 2
[19:58:02] <Forte> the wolf didnt know who the mafia were
[19:58:11] <Forte> if the wolf stays hidden
[19:58:12] <Andrew> in the end-game scenario
[19:58:13] <Andrew> though
[19:58:15] <Forte> he is not kingmaker
[19:58:17] <Andrew> the wolf is undoubtedly outed
[19:58:21] <Forte> but because you were a mole
[19:58:24] <Forte> you had to out yourself
[19:58:24] <Forte> lol
[19:58:32] <Forte> that sounds ironic but it is true
[19:58:37] <Andrew> nah i had to out myself
[19:58:37] <Andrew> because
[19:58:43] <Andrew> of the threat of my own survival
[19:58:53] <Andrew> i evne used my own tools to help a secure success towards us winning
[19:58:57] <Andrew> and then you try to backstab me?
[19:59:05] <Andrew> that's p awful teamwork
[19:59:11] <Forte> you backstabbed first
[19:59:14] <Forte> for fuck sake
[19:59:19] <Andrew> no
[19:59:20] <Andrew> you did
[19:59:22] <Forte> im not going to count billy's chief shiit
[19:59:23] <Andrew> by removing me from power
[19:59:25] <Andrew> i count it
[19:59:27] <Forte> because that is completely irrelevant
[19:59:29] <Andrew> because it's something that the mafia did
[19:59:31] <Forte> it. did. nothing.
[19:59:41] <Andrew> it told me that you don't trust me at all
[19:59:43] <Andrew> which is good enough
[19:59:44] <Andrew> for backstabbing
[19:59:52] <Forte> your logic is twisted
[19:59:54] <Forte> dude
[19:59:59] <Andrew> i punished billy
[19:59:59] <Forte> if you want us to win
[20:00:03] <Forte> genuinely
[20:00:09] <Andrew> because of his difficult demeanor this entire game
[20:00:09] <Forte> then whether we fully trust you or not
[20:00:12] <Forte> is irrelevant
[20:00:16] <Andrew> and his overall hostility towards the traitor
[20:00:20] <Andrew> how much you claimed he ragequit
[20:00:21] <Forte> get that through your thick skull
[20:00:32] <Andrew> it's a nobrainer to kill billy
[20:00:34] <Forte> billy's last ragequit wasnt about you
[20:00:39] <Forte> it was because of UncleSam
[20:00:47] <Forte> actually
[20:00:51] <Forte> they were 100% due to UncleSam
[20:01:16] <Forte> the first time was because UncleSam told him to "use evidence" to find the traitor when there was practically none
[20:01:26] <Andrew> if there's a shitty person to deal with that cannot be controlled, you eliminate him to make the rest of negotiations easier.
[20:01:28] <Forte> the second one was due to UncleSam saying something contradictory
[20:01:37] <Forte> regarding his orc chief veto
[20:02:21] <Forte> billy wasn't that shitty to deal with
[20:02:34] <Forte> he just didnt fully trust you
[20:02:39] <Forte> like any rational person would
[20:02:45] <Forte> UncleSam gave him that role for a reason
[20:02:50] <Forte> even though
[20:02:54] <Forte> i ended up being a waste anyway
[20:02:54] No such nick/channel
[20:02:55] <Forte> ...
[20:02:56] No such nick/channel
[20:06:44] <Forte> have you calmed down?
[20:19:00] <Forte> well whatever the case we are def idling tonight
[20:19:08] <Forte> the rest is up to you man!
Notice the highlighted part in bold. Snype himself implied that lynching him would be the logical choice in the scenario we are in today. He also didn't call me out when I said "it would be a matter of whether village is willing to play the RNG" game, since initially I didn't realize that the kingmaker scenario Snype was looking for was to make it village, which is shown later in the log and in my earlier post, and Snype acknowledged that it is true.
The latter half of the log covers what I have already discussed previously in regards to who "backstabbed" first. It should prove that Snype is either a very petty person when it comes to mafia, or is bad a lying. Take your pick.
Guess what, everything is a guessing game until the kingmaker scenario you desire is reached. If we don't kill you now, either we continue to play guessing games and hope another opportunity to lynch you opens up and we are at the same quandary as we are today (which we can't guarantee), or the village becomes kingmaker. In your defense that is something you need to do in order to win, but why the fuck should the village and I waste a lot more time when a chance for both of us to win is in clear sight right now?
I told you over and over again in that log that we would idle. This is 100% your miscalculation. Deal with it.
I take it back, you are being petty. I figured your argument for why you deserved the win would have little to do with your play (since your amount of motivation to win was questionable given that you claimed to be willing to throw the game to us at one point, as well as your reasoning for stabbing us), and more to do with how sloppy my team played in the earlygame. But out of all the things you could have mentioned, this is it? For those unfamiliar with the context of this log, I was sending instructions to the orcs on who to vote for orc protect via PM. I meant to type that in our mafia channel but accidentally entered it into the bassgame when channel when Snype was on. This revealed to Snype that billy was one of our leaders, but it was completely irrelevant because (1) You would have found out anyway due to ipl's "im the traitor" stunt, and (2) even if you didn't find out directly, you would know due to our refusal to let you kill billy despite claiming a village power role in our conversations on the google doc. This was certainly my mistake, but it was a *mechanical* error. Having to manage all the bassgame secret channels and mafia channels (we had 3) is part of the reason the fourth task for the bassgame has been delayed. It is not really a factor now but given how much time I have put into this game since then (and these posts for that matter), it should be clear that I want to see this game through as soon as possible.
It really strikes me as pathetic that you are trying to play the "bass outed our alliance in bassgame to billy" card to convince Pidge not to lynch you. Even that point is irrelevant because your alliance in the third task of bassgame steamrolled the opposition regardless.
Finally, you still haven't countered my point about forcing the game to kingmaker would give the village a lower, if not 0% chance of winning. I said this game is a matter of "pick your poison" over and over again, and that's really what this is. If you have a chance of winning while getting the game over with as soon as possible, then I would strongly encourage you to take it, I know I would. If your choice is a matter of picking which side you think deserves to win, then I think the effort I have put in to convince you that I do compared to Snype should speak for itself. Feel free to ask me any more questions.
Andy Snype
Mr. Music
Did you even read the part where I said that I would post why I feel i deserved the win at a later point in time?
The village will need some time to digest our posts and come to a decision, Snype. If you really intend to win, then you should post your defense asap. The fact that I have replied this quickly (and openly posted the log between us) should prove just how serious I am about winning. Not to mention, it doesn't change the fact that using that bassgame log as a means to make Pidge sympathetic to your cause really strikes me as pathetic regardless.
Andy Snype
Mr. Music
They won't need the time from 1 am - noon EST to figure it out.
Does any other villager have something to say? It's a lot of pressure to be the apparent sole decider, but if you trust my judgment, that's fine. I would like to choose the option that gives the village the best chance to win, but that's really hard to say when you consider all the action combinations and that the ring could work one of two ways. I don't care so much about who 'deserves' to win. I merely asked that a few posts ago because I figured it would produce an elaborate and honest response followed by an answer about how the ring works with no forethought of lying. No matter which option I choose, I don't mean it to imply I think any less of either Bass or Steven Snype. I'm just playing towards the win condition and consider both players friends.
Right now I'm inclined to believe that the ring loses protection after its kill is used. That means we could have a 50% chance to win, which is slightly disappointing, but it may be the best we can get. I've ran through other scenarios, including no lynch options and varying targets for each night's kills. I've considered that if either of the other parties were put in a kingmaker situation, they would for sure choose the village to win, but I don't think any of those scenarios are more likely than 50%.
Right now I'm inclined to believe that the ring loses protection after its kill is used. That means we could have a 50% chance to win, which is slightly disappointing, but it may be the best we can get. I've ran through other scenarios, including no lynch options and varying targets for each night's kills. I've considered that if either of the other parties were put in a kingmaker situation, they would for sure choose the village to win, but I don't think any of those scenarios are more likely than 50%.
Andy Snype
Mr. Music
Why do I deserve the win? Frankly, I don’t think anyone particularly “deserves” the win. Looking at the game’s original setup, it’s intended that the village was meant to not go into the traditional village leadership system, mostly from looking at how many non-power role villagers existed compared to how few power roles there actually were in addition to the conversations I’ve had with DLE and US prior to how they hyped up this game to be anti-village-leader system to try to encourage us all to be more proactive, like a proper NOC. Everyone had to be active and this is how the moles were supposed to be found out. Gollum was meant to be a mole duo with Smeagol to get information on both the mafia and village respectively, but with Smeagol’s early death because he claimed to Ullar as a hobbit, it just left me the sole villager alive.
Night 1, I just wanted to get rid of any villager that seemed to be a threat to finding me/von, and seeing that Agape was the only villager that tried to do so, we didn’t do a whole lot. Von and I miscommunicated about who LW wanted von to hook, so we randed rey instead. (multiple lucky rands happen for me itg). I had talked to Bass and the other orcs to see if we could be on the same boat before we couldn’t communicate to each other. The orcs only knew of Bass as the only high power of Sauron and the rest of the orcs, but could not communicate outside the main thread because of NOC. Bass pretty much just got the orcs to get fakeclaims ready.
Day 2, I honestly was just trying to seem more Orc-like by encouraging fellow orcs that slacked in activity as there was a post about those people that should have participated. I had no idea how to make myself seem remotely village-esque since it’s just randing and trying to guess off of initial reactions. I was trying to have Acklow post some content so he wouldn’t be instantly lynched, though billy (who had some very strange notions about this entire game, almost all of which he was wrong about) was very harsh on Acklow and got him lynched. I thought it was also amazing how little billy posted and still fell under the public radar.
Night 2 was my kill and we had thought killing a mafia member was the best course of action. We knew about the orc protection and reasoned it was down because they probably would have used it Night 0 (this we did not find out until much later in the game). However, we decided against killing Bass because if the traitor had decided to kill Bass, the traitor would theoretically stop until he was in power. There were plenty of living people that had the competence to lead it, but if the killings on the mafiamen were to suddenly stop if someone had reached access, we thought it would look too sketchy to the mafia. I also believe it was this night where Bass thought he was talking in #wingerdinger but accidentally said that above log in #mambotime so I grilled him immediately and the three of us talked in a channel to determine the extent of this fuckup. Supposedly, Bass made fuckups earlier on but went unnoticed, but this actually led me to do something. They did not tell me much, though these are the logs from what happened:
Note about logs: Timestamps will be on some logs but not others because I switched OSes throughout the summer. I use mIRC on Windows and have timestamps saved to logs, but I use HexChat on Arch. I copypasted most of these logs from mIRC to the host convo for postgame purposes
Here, this notice that I had made, I think my bigger mistake was responding in the channel with a “what” rather than responding to PM. Regardless, this should have put me on the mafia’s watch list regardless because I now knew something about the higher-ups that the other orcs didn’t know. I figured I was going to get caught here or checked somehow. It was already a joke earlier that all the orcs claimed to be the traitor. I followed this up with billy too.
Trolls aside, we pretended as if we knew nothing and decided to kill an Orc rather than Bass because if we had killed Bass, I did not want to risk actually being chosen and not offed. I felt by default Yeti/Pluff was the “cleanest” of all the Orcs because of how inactive that slot had been. Even if I were to kill bass, I would only be able to kill an orc 2 nights later and that I think would be too much of a restriction on my kill. Had I known who the mafia were planning to kill, I might have changed my plan.
With the beginning of Day 3, I’m like fuck… why did they go and kill ½ the wolf pair? I hoped I would at least get inspect protection from von’s death because LW seemed relatively dominant, so I had thought he was always mafia higherup, which is a good possibility of happening considering how Everybody Votes went (just realized how retarded that sounds in retrospect since there is only 1 mafia faction, but I had thought he was just bussing really obvious teammates of himself). It wasn’t until Ditto was lynched that I had realized he was actually village. I did not think the village had an actual Middle Earth checker when LN claimed his role as a more specific checker. It’s in my playstyle to do something remotely active as a villager in the remotely early-phase of the game and opposing LightWolf was the best thing I could come up with at the time. Penguin’s fake was utter garbage though the second he decided to mention his actual role name in there..
Night 3 I wanted to hit off a villager because it was obvious the anti-village were too far behind with that hit that just happened for the earlygame. I noticed BT had been outed and was probably in the know for the mafia with the public reveal from Ullar.
Day 4 was just more opposition.
Night 4 is when the fun actually started and a big reason why I feel I should deserve the win. It hadn’t occurred to me to have a Gollum-mafia partnership because my main priority was staying out of the mafia’s sight. This also meant not getting on IRC as Gollum. I asked sam for an anonymous forum or something. The solution was google docs and I unknowingly doomed myself with the first email I picked that had an optonline.net domain which meant you had to be in the NY/NJ area. Fortunately, nobody picked up on this until much later in the game and thankfully, it had failed. I made a fake gmail account: sm34g0lg0llum@gmail.com with password: xpekeissexy. Feel free to look at that point. I wanted to provide as minimal information about myself so I acted as one of the biggest immature brats that nobody would want to deal with (Spiffy, I know you’re reading this and this was inspired by you :P). Check the edit history while you’re there to see what I’m talking about. I caught Bass lying to me multiple times during that night as Gollum (he didn’t actually tell me, but he tried to type with proper punctuation and grammar, which was the throwaway). I Iegitimately felt bad with the way I treated him. The first session we had talked was in the Jul 22 7:53 PM EDT edit, logs shown here:
Day 5, our kills on LightWolf and Eagle4 had failed and Celever was executed for god knows whatever reason and Ditto was lynched. All of these deaths meant nothing good.
Night 5, the communication was a bit better, but still a bit shaky:
While this was happening, ipl had decided to claim to be the traitor, arguably the best play of any orc and possibly mafia as it forced the traitor to keep him alive and actually give ipl enough information to convince Bass he is the traitor. Fortunately while I was online, so was aska. Sam was nice enough to set up another form of anonymous google doc communication, which as soon as I had sent the request, I wanted to cancel because I had nothing to give ipl and would rather leave him dry and hangin than give him basically nothing. I never made a fake, so the idea of Tom Bombadil came to mind as the possible traitor. Absolutely shitty fake was made, but I made a role PM for it.
At the time, all I had was the lynch redirect written out and that’s what I gave ipl. Oh access to that conversation was: anon5968@gmail.com password: anocymous. Somehow, he thought I was aska, so I rolled with it and didn’t say anything, minimizing contact with him unless he straight up asked for it, which was only one other time and the time I happened to respond, so did aska.
As a result, Bass decided to let all the orcs except for ipl in, including me. That above conversation, I was witnessing both sides of a negotiation happen (completely unfair advantage) and I passed off that unfairness as douchebaggery. Also, for whatever reason, Bass and all the other members of Sauron thought:
[17:10] <~Forte> also if i had to guess
[17:11] <~Forte> gollum is most likely ag
I’m completely sorry AG, but there is some predetermined hate on you that jumpluff and I feel is completely unjustified, making you the easiest pawn so I tried to use mannerisms/excuses that sounded like you, even though there were complete contradictions from earlier.
[19:31] <~Forte> as soon as i mention ag
[19:31] <&penguin344> he backed down
[19:31] <&penguin344> majorly
[19:32] <&soviet> whats happening
[19:32] <&soviet> is it some shit in middlearrth
[19:32] <~Forte> no
[19:32] <~Forte> im talking to gollum over google docs
[19:32] <&soviet> oh
[19:33] <~Forte> who im almost certain is Aura_Guardian now
[19:33] <&soviet> does he know who you are
[19:33] <&Blue_Tornado> next mafia should have anonymous chat over google hangout with masks
[19:35] <&penguin344> i like the
[19:35] <&penguin344> "ag is usually a nonfactor"
[19:35] <&penguin344> very smooth
[19:35] <&Blue_Tornado> lol
[19:35] <@Ullar> kill aG
[19:35] <@Ullar> BURN THE FOOL
[19:35] <&penguin344> we don't want ag dead though
[19:36] <&penguin344> we need his kill
Also, I had power to veto the orc hook + inspect, which became a 2/3 vote-to-decide-who-gets-hooked-and-only-works-while-there-is-an-orc-chieftain (something I actually just now noticed and should change the end-game result), but I had no actual vote for the orc protection. This orc hook + inspect only applied while I was undercover.
I could go more, but word doc says this is currently at 27 pages and it is 8 am. I should sleep.
Yada yada yada. Rey and xenu were complete rands, no knowledge of them. LN talked to me about the whole gondor lynchpin thing, which I brought up to Paperblade.
As to why I opened up, after AG was lynched, I had talked to ginganinja about lynch targets, and he had said I was up on the chopping block because they wanted to get rid of Gollum so their plan was to lynch/rohirrim every active, intelligent player (which he said were 3 of us), so that even if Gollum wasn’t one of them.
This defeatist attitude by the villagers with sheet access (I had already sent msgs through IRC on nickserv to warn them, I think Pidge is the only surviving member of this about possible explanations on how the LN/rey/eagle4/LW kills were so wellcollaborated with Xenu/imanalt information known. I knew zorbees wasn’t it, but I did want to instill the idea that whoever was “cleaned” could be a mole role considering Cancerous existed) is terrible. Knowing that the village was not at all in cooperation of working with me, I made it my point then to defeat the village rather than let them win, which was the context of the PM I had sent to Bass. The mafia was actually determined to kill aska, who they had thought was the traitor once they had realized the optonline.net and ipl showed them the logs of the conversation he had with the traitor.
I honestly had considered that I was in the point of defeat and I was kingmaker until this time. I knowingly used my lynch redirect to end the lynch early and I had expected a sense of trust to develop between the anti-village. Bass distrusted it, blamed it on billy, who I had killed, which made sense from what I had learned. All of the theories on who the traitor could be were billy’s ideas from what I understood. I don’t know if Bass lied to me or not, but he certainly seemed unstable to work with, so that is why I chose to kill him first. Billy’s sudden disappearance from IRC for the few days prior had also been noticed and he was apparently still in power of most of the actions, including the kill. So I had willingly made this a beautiful hook.
As to why I think I should win. You can log onto both those email accounts and view the document’s edit history and consider the fact that I had to basically out myself to get the mafia to stop shooting itself in the foot, I maintained a disposition that the mafia could not at all determine who I was until I voluntarily gave myself up. Bass did nothing to help the mafia when billy’s tantrums happened and opted to placate him. He would not have known that askaninjask was the traitor until he sent someone to kill him himself when the village was obviously the larger threat due to how successful they were. The mafia were willing to shoot themselves in the foot much harder than what I had done. Most importantly, I had done most of this game by myself. Bass had a team to work with him until they had died off. Von was killed very early and did not really influence the rest of this game, as typical of any dead person. I spent more hours than Bass did to micromanage the timing of communication as well as planning out conversations, some of which I had to partake both sides of to prevent my identity from being disclosed.
However, that is not to say I didn’t have faults this game. I didn’t do a good job at all in making myself seem like a village outside of inviting people to analyze me when it actually mattered. Maybe that was what von was intended to be, but it’s certainly something that I should have picked up the slack of, and then for the quality that was actually the factor to set it off was my activity in the game trying to seem like a concerned villager along with a hostile attitude towards Gollum. I didn’t have as much stellar activity during the earlygame phase, good thing I didn’t attract LW’s attention, but it definitely contributed towards why I would be a suspect. Then there is of course the fact that I honestly thought I couldn’t win with the village’s attitude rather than just denying ginga anything. You’ve clearly seen that I will do almost anything as I have lynched Paperblade (though he did not indicate to me that he was for it, but by association of cleaned villagers) at the cost of my own redirect.
Lynching Paperblade and getting the ring though motivated me to come back into the game with what was possible and had the mafia not killed me and done what they indicated they would do, I would have actually won this game. However, knowing that the mafia took away a 100% win from me regardless of whatever reason they had, I feel strongly pissed about it, partly because there was no trust when I had hoped there would have been and partly because it's a free win that was taken from me. I would not underestimate how much I am willing to risk myself losing at the sake of the mafia, considering the choice I had made last night, which put them in less favor of winning the game had they killed me. From a practical standpoint of anyone that actually knows me, a crossfire is very likely. Take that over the RNG that the mafia want to play with you, which are already against your odds.
Tl;dr:
lynch Bass
I subbed into Day 1 with just the knowledge that I would get an interesting role and not being very experienced in NOC, took the time instead to just read through the multi-page thread that had currently amassed to be before I made any post to try to actually get reads. I was allowed OC contact with von to understand what was going on, but it just meant we tried to get reads on people. The only other thing I started to work with was that PM (in addition to mine/von’s role PMs).UncleSam said:
Night 1, I just wanted to get rid of any villager that seemed to be a threat to finding me/von, and seeing that Agape was the only villager that tried to do so, we didn’t do a whole lot. Von and I miscommunicated about who LW wanted von to hook, so we randed rey instead. (multiple lucky rands happen for me itg). I had talked to Bass and the other orcs to see if we could be on the same boat before we couldn’t communicate to each other. The orcs only knew of Bass as the only high power of Sauron and the rest of the orcs, but could not communicate outside the main thread because of NOC. Bass pretty much just got the orcs to get fakeclaims ready.
Day 2, I honestly was just trying to seem more Orc-like by encouraging fellow orcs that slacked in activity as there was a post about those people that should have participated. I had no idea how to make myself seem remotely village-esque since it’s just randing and trying to guess off of initial reactions. I was trying to have Acklow post some content so he wouldn’t be instantly lynched, though billy (who had some very strange notions about this entire game, almost all of which he was wrong about) was very harsh on Acklow and got him lynched. I thought it was also amazing how little billy posted and still fell under the public radar.
Night 2 was my kill and we had thought killing a mafia member was the best course of action. We knew about the orc protection and reasoned it was down because they probably would have used it Night 0 (this we did not find out until much later in the game). However, we decided against killing Bass because if the traitor had decided to kill Bass, the traitor would theoretically stop until he was in power. There were plenty of living people that had the competence to lead it, but if the killings on the mafiamen were to suddenly stop if someone had reached access, we thought it would look too sketchy to the mafia. I also believe it was this night where Bass thought he was talking in #wingerdinger but accidentally said that above log in #mambotime so I grilled him immediately and the three of us talked in a channel to determine the extent of this fuckup. Supposedly, Bass made fuckups earlier on but went unnoticed, but this actually led me to do something. They did not tell me much, though these are the logs from what happened:
Note about logs: Timestamps will be on some logs but not others because I switched OSes throughout the summer. I use mIRC on Windows and have timestamps saved to logs, but I use HexChat on Arch. I copypasted most of these logs from mIRC to the host convo for postgame purposes
[23:45:46] * Now talking in #ddd
[23:45:50] <Andrew> my favorite bra size.
[23:45:56] <Andrew> wait that came out wrong
[23:46:00] <Andrew> cup size*
[23:46:03] <billymills> andrew is the log sufficiently hidden
[23:46:04] <billymills> from pidge
[23:46:05] <Andrew> you get what i mean.
[23:46:09] <Andrew> if he scrolls up
[23:46:15] <billymills> what did you discuss
[23:46:18] <billymills> in the mean time
[23:46:20] <Andrew> nothing
[23:46:24] <Andrew> just that we should talk about this with you here
[23:46:24] <billymills> specifically
[23:46:28] <@Forte> the only thing i can do to hide it
[23:46:29] <billymills> if it was game related
[23:46:31] <billymills> in the channel
[23:46:32] <@Forte> is flood the channel maybe
[23:46:35] <billymills> nah
[23:46:38] <billymills> not too obvious
[23:46:39] <@Forte> ugh
[23:46:39] <Andrew> fortunately the channel is being flooded
[23:46:45] <@Forte> im so sorry
[23:46:46] <billymills> by what
[23:46:49] <Andrew> with other discussion
[23:46:50] <Andrew> going on.
[23:46:56] <Andrew> so there is a chance this may be hidden.
[23:47:15] <@Forte> of course i spend 5 seconds inspecting every line i type to make sure it is in the right channel
[23:47:23] <@Forte> and the one time i dont this happens
[23:47:29] <Andrew> yo
[23:47:32] <Andrew> at least it's not like me
[23:47:38] <Andrew> who said something meant for a mafia chan
[23:47:40] <@Forte> probably because i have a lot of questions to answer for bassgaem
[23:47:43] <Andrew> in public chan
[23:49:25] <Andrew> okay
[23:49:31] <Andrew> i shouldn't have reacted
[23:49:36] <Andrew> to bass's slipup
[23:49:38] <Andrew> in that chan
[23:49:42] <Andrew> because now it puts me at risk.
[23:49:55] <billymills> it puts me
[23:49:59] <billymills> at a far higher risk
[23:50:12] <Andrew> at best
[23:50:15] <Andrew> you can delay your lynching
[23:50:16] <billymills> is that channel
[23:50:20] <billymills> well
[23:49:42] <Andrew> because now it puts me at risk.
[23:49:55] <billymills> it puts me
[23:49:59] <billymills> at a far higher risk
[23:50:12] <Andrew> at best
[23:50:15] <Andrew> you can delay your lynching
[23:50:16] <billymills> is that channel
[23:50:20] <billymills> well
[23:50:25] <billymills> what did you discuss
[23:50:29] <billymills> after the slipup
[23:50:35] <billymills> cna you guys argue over some anime shit
[23:50:36] <billymills> or something
[23:50:38] <Andrew> someone else
[23:50:39] <Andrew> joined
[23:50:39] <billymills> that pidge wont bother reading
[23:50:41] <Andrew> and we started talking
[23:50:42] <Andrew> about the game
[23:50:46] <Andrew> but pidge would bother reading
[23:50:47] <billymills> ugh
[23:51:03] <billymills> whatever
[23:51:04] <billymills> ill ignore it
[23:51:07] <billymills> and hope for the best
[23:51:10] <Andrew> ok
[23:51:18] <@Forte> i have never fucked this up in other games
[23:51:20] <@Forte> i dont know why
[23:51:21] <@Forte> this game
[23:51:24] <@Forte> has been so bad in that regard
[23:51:35] <@Forte> other than having to manage so many channels
[23:51:36] <Andrew> what do you mean by that?
[23:51:52] <billymills> he fucked up like 3 times already
[23:52:06] <@Forte> nobody noticed the first two
[23:52:18] <@Forte> but you noticed this one
[23:45:50] <Andrew> my favorite bra size.
[23:45:56] <Andrew> wait that came out wrong
[23:46:00] <Andrew> cup size*
[23:46:03] <billymills> andrew is the log sufficiently hidden
[23:46:04] <billymills> from pidge
[23:46:05] <Andrew> you get what i mean.
[23:46:09] <Andrew> if he scrolls up
[23:46:15] <billymills> what did you discuss
[23:46:18] <billymills> in the mean time
[23:46:20] <Andrew> nothing
[23:46:24] <Andrew> just that we should talk about this with you here
[23:46:24] <billymills> specifically
[23:46:28] <@Forte> the only thing i can do to hide it
[23:46:29] <billymills> if it was game related
[23:46:31] <billymills> in the channel
[23:46:32] <@Forte> is flood the channel maybe
[23:46:35] <billymills> nah
[23:46:38] <billymills> not too obvious
[23:46:39] <@Forte> ugh
[23:46:39] <Andrew> fortunately the channel is being flooded
[23:46:45] <@Forte> im so sorry
[23:46:46] <billymills> by what
[23:46:49] <Andrew> with other discussion
[23:46:50] <Andrew> going on.
[23:46:56] <Andrew> so there is a chance this may be hidden.
[23:47:15] <@Forte> of course i spend 5 seconds inspecting every line i type to make sure it is in the right channel
[23:47:23] <@Forte> and the one time i dont this happens
[23:47:29] <Andrew> yo
[23:47:32] <Andrew> at least it's not like me
[23:47:38] <Andrew> who said something meant for a mafia chan
[23:47:40] <@Forte> probably because i have a lot of questions to answer for bassgaem
[23:47:43] <Andrew> in public chan
[23:49:25] <Andrew> okay
[23:49:31] <Andrew> i shouldn't have reacted
[23:49:36] <Andrew> to bass's slipup
[23:49:38] <Andrew> in that chan
[23:49:42] <Andrew> because now it puts me at risk.
[23:49:55] <billymills> it puts me
[23:49:59] <billymills> at a far higher risk
[23:50:12] <Andrew> at best
[23:50:15] <Andrew> you can delay your lynching
[23:50:16] <billymills> is that channel
[23:50:20] <billymills> well
[23:49:42] <Andrew> because now it puts me at risk.
[23:49:55] <billymills> it puts me
[23:49:59] <billymills> at a far higher risk
[23:50:12] <Andrew> at best
[23:50:15] <Andrew> you can delay your lynching
[23:50:16] <billymills> is that channel
[23:50:20] <billymills> well
[23:50:25] <billymills> what did you discuss
[23:50:29] <billymills> after the slipup
[23:50:35] <billymills> cna you guys argue over some anime shit
[23:50:36] <billymills> or something
[23:50:38] <Andrew> someone else
[23:50:39] <Andrew> joined
[23:50:39] <billymills> that pidge wont bother reading
[23:50:41] <Andrew> and we started talking
[23:50:42] <Andrew> about the game
[23:50:46] <Andrew> but pidge would bother reading
[23:50:47] <billymills> ugh
[23:51:03] <billymills> whatever
[23:51:04] <billymills> ill ignore it
[23:51:07] <billymills> and hope for the best
[23:51:10] <Andrew> ok
[23:51:18] <@Forte> i have never fucked this up in other games
[23:51:20] <@Forte> i dont know why
[23:51:21] <@Forte> this game
[23:51:24] <@Forte> has been so bad in that regard
[23:51:35] <@Forte> other than having to manage so many channels
[23:51:36] <Andrew> what do you mean by that?
[23:51:52] <billymills> he fucked up like 3 times already
[23:52:06] <@Forte> nobody noticed the first two
[23:52:18] <@Forte> but you noticed this one
Here, this notice that I had made, I think my bigger mistake was responding in the channel with a “what” rather than responding to PM. Regardless, this should have put me on the mafia’s watch list regardless because I now knew something about the higher-ups that the other orcs didn’t know. I figured I was going to get caught here or checked somehow. It was already a joke earlier that all the orcs claimed to be the traitor. I followed this up with billy too.
[23:59:38] <billymills> alright andrew
[23:59:39] <billymills> are you the spy
[00:00:48] <Andrew> ya =]
[00:00:59] <billymills> cool
[00:01:18] <Andrew> no for real though
[00:01:19] <Andrew> i'm the spy
[00:01:24] <billymills> k
[00:01:32] <billymills> can you tell your guys
[00:01:38] <billymills> that paperblade is legolas
[00:02:00] <Andrew> what the fuck am i going to do with that?
[00:02:02] <Andrew> i'm an orc
[00:02:03] <Andrew> 9.9
[23:59:39] <billymills> are you the spy
[00:00:48] <Andrew> ya =]
[00:00:59] <billymills> cool
[00:01:18] <Andrew> no for real though
[00:01:19] <Andrew> i'm the spy
[00:01:24] <billymills> k
[00:01:32] <billymills> can you tell your guys
[00:01:38] <billymills> that paperblade is legolas
[00:02:00] <Andrew> what the fuck am i going to do with that?
[00:02:02] <Andrew> i'm an orc
[00:02:03] <Andrew> 9.9
Trolls aside, we pretended as if we knew nothing and decided to kill an Orc rather than Bass because if we had killed Bass, I did not want to risk actually being chosen and not offed. I felt by default Yeti/Pluff was the “cleanest” of all the Orcs because of how inactive that slot had been. Even if I were to kill bass, I would only be able to kill an orc 2 nights later and that I think would be too much of a restriction on my kill. Had I known who the mafia were planning to kill, I might have changed my plan.
With the beginning of Day 3, I’m like fuck… why did they go and kill ½ the wolf pair? I hoped I would at least get inspect protection from von’s death because LW seemed relatively dominant, so I had thought he was always mafia higherup, which is a good possibility of happening considering how Everybody Votes went (just realized how retarded that sounds in retrospect since there is only 1 mafia faction, but I had thought he was just bussing really obvious teammates of himself). It wasn’t until Ditto was lynched that I had realized he was actually village. I did not think the village had an actual Middle Earth checker when LN claimed his role as a more specific checker. It’s in my playstyle to do something remotely active as a villager in the remotely early-phase of the game and opposing LightWolf was the best thing I could come up with at the time. Penguin’s fake was utter garbage though the second he decided to mention his actual role name in there..
Night 3 I wanted to hit off a villager because it was obvious the anti-village were too far behind with that hit that just happened for the earlygame. I noticed BT had been outed and was probably in the know for the mafia with the public reveal from Ullar.
Day 4 was just more opposition.
Night 4 is when the fun actually started and a big reason why I feel I should deserve the win. It hadn’t occurred to me to have a Gollum-mafia partnership because my main priority was staying out of the mafia’s sight. This also meant not getting on IRC as Gollum. I asked sam for an anonymous forum or something. The solution was google docs and I unknowingly doomed myself with the first email I picked that had an optonline.net domain which meant you had to be in the NY/NJ area. Fortunately, nobody picked up on this until much later in the game and thankfully, it had failed. I made a fake gmail account: sm34g0lg0llum@gmail.com with password: xpekeissexy. Feel free to look at that point. I wanted to provide as minimal information about myself so I acted as one of the biggest immature brats that nobody would want to deal with (Spiffy, I know you’re reading this and this was inspired by you :P). Check the edit history while you’re there to see what I’m talking about. I caught Bass lying to me multiple times during that night as Gollum (he didn’t actually tell me, but he tried to type with proper punctuation and grammar, which was the throwaway). I Iegitimately felt bad with the way I treated him. The first session we had talked was in the Jul 22 7:53 PM EDT edit, logs shown here:
hi preciouses
Greetings Meat.
Well? Spit it out.
I don’t got all day sonny!
landlords are annoying. brb in 30. but please tell me why you want eagle4 dead.
He is a tracker and can’t be protected. Easy pickings!
So why don’t you kill him?
We don’t want you to hit one of our guys by accident.
And this guy is a good kill.
Good kill doesnt matter as to who kills who.
You can kill him just the same.
Ok but the first point still stands.
How about you kill him and I will kill someone else.
I will kill hmmmmmmmmm
The question is why are you so hesitant about killing him?
If you are bothering to ask us for someoen else
It doens’t matter if he dies. I don’t want you to kill me accidentally.
What does this have to do with us killing you?
Can’t we collaborate to kill lightwolf?
I mean sure but he could just very well be protected.
So you guys know nothing about the village power roles to
We don’t know legolas
so you guys do, then let’s talk about those first and then collaborate on who is better to kill.
i like playing guessing games nor have i lost the guess who is going to be bgd
I still don’t understand your hesitation over Eagle4.
I like pink!
I’m saying let’s first talk about who or what the village power roles are before a kill target is set.
Eagle4: Aragorn - Tracker
LonelyNess: Faramir - Sheriff
Lightwolf: Gandalf - Sheriff
Billymills: Boromir - ???
So do you guys not have an inspect?
We have hit vanillas
Who are the vanillas then?
Did von f tell you any important villagers?
he said something about LW wanting him to hook ginganinja. is he one of yours?
Was von given Lightwolf Sheet access?
if he did, i wouldn’t be asking this. is that why you killed him?
He was killed because he claimed to be a hobbit.
where is the post stating this? not you posting. his post stating he was a hobbit.
Why would we post our reasons
He claimed to Ullar warlord
He did not inform me about that.
Anyway, is ginganinja one of yours, and what vanillas do you know of?
Ginga is not one of ours, what vanillas do you know?
zippo. i have just been guessing. so who do you know of/
We have quite a few
wanna say? might be better to get the odds in both of our favor.
How does this help us
so then i don’t end up accidentally hitting a vanilla when i think i’m hitting a power role.
Why can’t you hit Eagle4, guaranteed power role kill.
I could. I could also hit someone else. Why can’t you hit Eagle4?
We were offering a safe kill. If you had info, you could tell us a safe kill too.
ok. if he’s not one of yours: any of: LN, Paperblade, LightWolf
Why paperblade?
rng.com
Why are you rnging
because i don’t know who your people are. and i rng’d 3 out of 3. one out of 3
We can kill lightwolf if you kill Eagle4
how? you have been hesitant so far.
We’re willing to hit the BG
and you haven’t said who the BG is so far. why wait to hold out this information?
I meant we were willing to hit a protected lightwolf, knowing he won’t be protected after.
I have to wonder why not kill both bg + lw? Are you really that afraid of e4?
We don’t know who the BG is.
ok. you kill eagle4 and i will hit lightwolf.
Ok.
Do you have a hook?
ya. ur fine.
Sorry?
i assume you’re worried about the track finding you. i will hook eagle4.
I couldn’t care less about the track. Lonelyness or Lightwolf are better targets
okay. damn this purple…
actually it looks better than green i will stick with this
hook LN or LW? which one do you prefer?
Is that you von?
yes.(how were you unaware you claimed to ullar)
I see.
I wanted to gauge your reaction. My teammate is retarded.
lol.
So recap: One kill on LW, One kill on Eagle4, and uh… hook on LN or LW. either is fine.
Hook LW I guess
Now that you are here though can you shed some light on why it matters whether you guys kill Eagle4? Your teammate was being very obstinate about not being the one to kill him.
He’s right in that regard though. it doesn’t really matter. I told him to try to get info on you or rather what you know. You still haven’t answered the question on who is a plain villager. That is a clean way to put your members into it.
We are hesitant to answer that since you could just tell the village our info
We don’t have a reason to. It’s so clear that together, we’re pretty fucked. We need to be working together and for whatever reason, people tend to be very closed off.
You had a mole role… I think that might be one reason why people are hesitant to trust each other.
If everyone is open about their thoughts to each other, the value of being a mole doesn’t really help. It’s just inspection immunity. I don’t think this game went at all how Sam and DLE intended it to be.
In agreement on that one. Village leadership very strong! Ullar’s death was his fault though.
In regards to your question though, there isn’t any particularly good reason to tell you who the vanillas are… at least not yet. You don’t need that info at this very moment, so it is safer for us to keep silent on that.
Actually I do, as I said my partner is retarded. I worry about the moves he will make considering the days are NOC. Fortunately, he has laid low so far.
Oh you are saying it is important to know that during days?
Yes.
I’ll consider releasing that info then, but I’d rather be sure that my teammates are in agreement before I say anything about that. I don’t think it is something you urgently need.
Ok. I recommend an inspection on ginganinja then since I don’t know what he was, but I figure if LightWolf wanted me to hook him, he must have some sort of active role. How does that sound?
Ok. That does sound a bit weird though, makes me wonder what he could have claimed since he isn’t one of us.
Perhaps he might be Legolas? Paranoid LightWolf can do some crazy things.What am I saying? That’s dumb. He should be something powerful or weird enough to question LightWolf if he is willing to have that willingly hooked.
That’s fair enough.
Am I talking to Blue Tornado right now or is this a teammate of his?
Teammate.
Ah okay. I’m just wondering out of my own curiosity.
If you desire to collaborate again, please inform Da Letter El or UncleSam and they will do what they can to notify me.
Mithril is looking very suspicious. If you aren’t Mithril, he might be Legolas.
Can you confirm you hooked LonelyNess?
Yes. I confirm I hooked LonelyNess. Why is Mithril suspicious?
He mentioned in an earlier post that it would surprise him if the soldiers and rohirrim knew each other.
Doesn’t that mean he is a soldier of Gondor or rohirrim as opposed to Legolas?
Why did your kill fail.
Someone pledged his sword to defend him. That sounds more like Aragorn than Legolas. Why did you kill Celever?
Von are you here?
No. But his dumbass partner is. :(
Von is unable to reach the phone right now, but you can talk to me. :)
Ok then!
Anywho, you said the flavor of your failure was someone pledging their sword?
Yes.
So why did you kill Celever instead of Eagle4? Seems rather dumb to off your own men.
You should know by now why we would attempt to off one of our own. Do you not?
No.
In that case, look at the flavor of the kill. You should notice something.
Good trick. Trying to determine who I am by using the “Online users viewing this thread…” Copypaste it here or you can just tell me.
Do you know who I am?
A teammate of Blue Tornado’s?
I mean username.
No, but if you want to share, by all means, please do.
Since you knew about my trick I am assuming you logged off?
I’m not answering that question. At least not until you tell me why did you switch from Eagle4.
Ok then. We had an extra kill that night. Our kill on Eagle4 failed for the same reason as yours.
Vonfiedler: you’re retarded for targeting LightWolf.
I just corrected it, meant Eagle4
What is your flavor? I have given you my kill failure flavor. I do not think that the flavor that you got is the same as mine.
It is the same as yours. Care to explain that one? Not it is. Someone pledged their sword.
I do not know if I believe you.
The one who I don’t believe is you. Either than means that the village used a role that protected them both at the same time, or you are lying.
You are claiming that I am the one who lied, the one who happens to be the first to state the flavor.
That is irrelevant.
It is relevant. It is easier to hide the true reason a kill failed, perhaps a hook, by saying “me too”
Ok, then here is the detailed result PM
<UncleSam> the Dark Lord sent you on a mission to assassinate Eagle4 but when you got there, some motherfucker swinging a sword like crazy stopped you from completing your task, so you slunk home
also this
In case I wasn't clear on IRC: Someone had PLEDGED their sword to protect Eagle4 last night. I think I forgot to mention that bit.
Why don’t you go ahead and copy yours?
Your kill on LightWolf got blocked by someone who had apparently pledged his sword to protect LightWolf that night.
I believe you now.
Now, do you think it is a good idea to target those two again?
If you are telling the truth, then that means that they probably used a one timer to protect a certain group of villagers, likely fellowship
A one-timer that protects a certain group of villagers? That sounds incredibly strong. If this is the case though, then I imagine that Legolas will be able to protect LightWolf again. Eagle4 and LonelyNess seem to be better targets.
I am more concerned about them offing our leaders one by one. This is really strange.
If any of your people are determined to be Sauron already, there is nothing we can do about them. The next best thing we can do is mitigate our losses. To do that, we need to not get found out.I will hook LightWolf tonight. Eagle4 and LonelyNess can die.
We’ll deliberate. Also, got any good hook / inspect targets?
Aren’t yours dead?
no you’re just being terrible. I don’t think I will hook LightWolf. you can hook him.
We don’t have one, sorry.
You expect me to pay attention to deaths, you should know what roles of your teams have died. it is obvious there is a backup on your team.
This is twice now that you have messed up. I am not hooking LightWofl and will rand tonight.
You can kill Lonelyness and inspect reyscarface. Hook Lightwolf.
Damn you’re good!
Greetings Meat.
Well? Spit it out.
I don’t got all day sonny!
landlords are annoying. brb in 30. but please tell me why you want eagle4 dead.
He is a tracker and can’t be protected. Easy pickings!
So why don’t you kill him?
We don’t want you to hit one of our guys by accident.
And this guy is a good kill.
Good kill doesnt matter as to who kills who.
You can kill him just the same.
Ok but the first point still stands.
How about you kill him and I will kill someone else.
I will kill hmmmmmmmmm
The question is why are you so hesitant about killing him?
If you are bothering to ask us for someoen else
It doens’t matter if he dies. I don’t want you to kill me accidentally.
What does this have to do with us killing you?
Can’t we collaborate to kill lightwolf?
I mean sure but he could just very well be protected.
So you guys know nothing about the village power roles to
We don’t know legolas
so you guys do, then let’s talk about those first and then collaborate on who is better to kill.
i like playing guessing games nor have i lost the guess who is going to be bgd
I still don’t understand your hesitation over Eagle4.
I like pink!
I’m saying let’s first talk about who or what the village power roles are before a kill target is set.
Eagle4: Aragorn - Tracker
LonelyNess: Faramir - Sheriff
Lightwolf: Gandalf - Sheriff
Billymills: Boromir - ???
So do you guys not have an inspect?
We have hit vanillas
Who are the vanillas then?
Did von f tell you any important villagers?
he said something about LW wanting him to hook ginganinja. is he one of yours?
Was von given Lightwolf Sheet access?
if he did, i wouldn’t be asking this. is that why you killed him?
He was killed because he claimed to be a hobbit.
where is the post stating this? not you posting. his post stating he was a hobbit.
Why would we post our reasons
He claimed to Ullar warlord
He did not inform me about that.
Anyway, is ginganinja one of yours, and what vanillas do you know of?
Ginga is not one of ours, what vanillas do you know?
zippo. i have just been guessing. so who do you know of/
We have quite a few
wanna say? might be better to get the odds in both of our favor.
How does this help us
so then i don’t end up accidentally hitting a vanilla when i think i’m hitting a power role.
Why can’t you hit Eagle4, guaranteed power role kill.
I could. I could also hit someone else. Why can’t you hit Eagle4?
We were offering a safe kill. If you had info, you could tell us a safe kill too.
ok. if he’s not one of yours: any of: LN, Paperblade, LightWolf
Why paperblade?
rng.com
Why are you rnging
because i don’t know who your people are. and i rng’d 3 out of 3. one out of 3
We can kill lightwolf if you kill Eagle4
how? you have been hesitant so far.
We’re willing to hit the BG
and you haven’t said who the BG is so far. why wait to hold out this information?
I meant we were willing to hit a protected lightwolf, knowing he won’t be protected after.
I have to wonder why not kill both bg + lw? Are you really that afraid of e4?
We don’t know who the BG is.
ok. you kill eagle4 and i will hit lightwolf.
Ok.
Do you have a hook?
ya. ur fine.
Sorry?
i assume you’re worried about the track finding you. i will hook eagle4.
I couldn’t care less about the track. Lonelyness or Lightwolf are better targets
okay. damn this purple…
actually it looks better than green i will stick with this
hook LN or LW? which one do you prefer?
Is that you von?
yes.(how were you unaware you claimed to ullar)
I see.
I wanted to gauge your reaction. My teammate is retarded.
lol.
So recap: One kill on LW, One kill on Eagle4, and uh… hook on LN or LW. either is fine.
Hook LW I guess
Now that you are here though can you shed some light on why it matters whether you guys kill Eagle4? Your teammate was being very obstinate about not being the one to kill him.
He’s right in that regard though. it doesn’t really matter. I told him to try to get info on you or rather what you know. You still haven’t answered the question on who is a plain villager. That is a clean way to put your members into it.
We are hesitant to answer that since you could just tell the village our info
We don’t have a reason to. It’s so clear that together, we’re pretty fucked. We need to be working together and for whatever reason, people tend to be very closed off.
You had a mole role… I think that might be one reason why people are hesitant to trust each other.
If everyone is open about their thoughts to each other, the value of being a mole doesn’t really help. It’s just inspection immunity. I don’t think this game went at all how Sam and DLE intended it to be.
In agreement on that one. Village leadership very strong! Ullar’s death was his fault though.
In regards to your question though, there isn’t any particularly good reason to tell you who the vanillas are… at least not yet. You don’t need that info at this very moment, so it is safer for us to keep silent on that.
Actually I do, as I said my partner is retarded. I worry about the moves he will make considering the days are NOC. Fortunately, he has laid low so far.
Oh you are saying it is important to know that during days?
Yes.
I’ll consider releasing that info then, but I’d rather be sure that my teammates are in agreement before I say anything about that. I don’t think it is something you urgently need.
Ok. I recommend an inspection on ginganinja then since I don’t know what he was, but I figure if LightWolf wanted me to hook him, he must have some sort of active role. How does that sound?
Ok. That does sound a bit weird though, makes me wonder what he could have claimed since he isn’t one of us.
Perhaps he might be Legolas? Paranoid LightWolf can do some crazy things.What am I saying? That’s dumb. He should be something powerful or weird enough to question LightWolf if he is willing to have that willingly hooked.
That’s fair enough.
Am I talking to Blue Tornado right now or is this a teammate of his?
Teammate.
Ah okay. I’m just wondering out of my own curiosity.
If you desire to collaborate again, please inform Da Letter El or UncleSam and they will do what they can to notify me.
Mithril is looking very suspicious. If you aren’t Mithril, he might be Legolas.
Can you confirm you hooked LonelyNess?
Yes. I confirm I hooked LonelyNess. Why is Mithril suspicious?
He mentioned in an earlier post that it would surprise him if the soldiers and rohirrim knew each other.
Doesn’t that mean he is a soldier of Gondor or rohirrim as opposed to Legolas?
Why did your kill fail.
Someone pledged his sword to defend him. That sounds more like Aragorn than Legolas. Why did you kill Celever?
Von are you here?
No. But his dumbass partner is. :(
Von is unable to reach the phone right now, but you can talk to me. :)
Ok then!
Anywho, you said the flavor of your failure was someone pledging their sword?
Yes.
So why did you kill Celever instead of Eagle4? Seems rather dumb to off your own men.
You should know by now why we would attempt to off one of our own. Do you not?
No.
In that case, look at the flavor of the kill. You should notice something.
Good trick. Trying to determine who I am by using the “Online users viewing this thread…” Copypaste it here or you can just tell me.
Do you know who I am?
A teammate of Blue Tornado’s?
I mean username.
No, but if you want to share, by all means, please do.
Since you knew about my trick I am assuming you logged off?
I’m not answering that question. At least not until you tell me why did you switch from Eagle4.
Ok then. We had an extra kill that night. Our kill on Eagle4 failed for the same reason as yours.
Vonfiedler: you’re retarded for targeting LightWolf.
I just corrected it, meant Eagle4
What is your flavor? I have given you my kill failure flavor. I do not think that the flavor that you got is the same as mine.
It is the same as yours. Care to explain that one? Not it is. Someone pledged their sword.
I do not know if I believe you.
The one who I don’t believe is you. Either than means that the village used a role that protected them both at the same time, or you are lying.
You are claiming that I am the one who lied, the one who happens to be the first to state the flavor.
That is irrelevant.
It is relevant. It is easier to hide the true reason a kill failed, perhaps a hook, by saying “me too”
Ok, then here is the detailed result PM
<UncleSam> the Dark Lord sent you on a mission to assassinate Eagle4 but when you got there, some motherfucker swinging a sword like crazy stopped you from completing your task, so you slunk home
also this
In case I wasn't clear on IRC: Someone had PLEDGED their sword to protect Eagle4 last night. I think I forgot to mention that bit.
Why don’t you go ahead and copy yours?
Your kill on LightWolf got blocked by someone who had apparently pledged his sword to protect LightWolf that night.
I believe you now.
Now, do you think it is a good idea to target those two again?
If you are telling the truth, then that means that they probably used a one timer to protect a certain group of villagers, likely fellowship
A one-timer that protects a certain group of villagers? That sounds incredibly strong. If this is the case though, then I imagine that Legolas will be able to protect LightWolf again. Eagle4 and LonelyNess seem to be better targets.
I am more concerned about them offing our leaders one by one. This is really strange.
If any of your people are determined to be Sauron already, there is nothing we can do about them. The next best thing we can do is mitigate our losses. To do that, we need to not get found out.I will hook LightWolf tonight. Eagle4 and LonelyNess can die.
We’ll deliberate. Also, got any good hook / inspect targets?
Aren’t yours dead?
no you’re just being terrible. I don’t think I will hook LightWolf. you can hook him.
We don’t have one, sorry.
You expect me to pay attention to deaths, you should know what roles of your teams have died. it is obvious there is a backup on your team.
This is twice now that you have messed up. I am not hooking LightWofl and will rand tonight.
You can kill Lonelyness and inspect reyscarface. Hook Lightwolf.
Damn you’re good!
Day 5, our kills on LightWolf and Eagle4 had failed and Celever was executed for god knows whatever reason and Ditto was lynched. All of these deaths meant nothing good.
Night 5, the communication was a bit better, but still a bit shaky:
me
6:14 PM
i know youre there
sau ron
6:57 PM
i was at an appointment but left my comp on sorry
anyway
please answer the question
me
6:57 PM
you tell me why i should still trust you.
sau ron
6:57 PM
...
why are you being so difficult
me
6:58 PM
because i caught you lying about something twice in the same day.
sau ron
6:59 PM
it is obvious why i did that
knowing your identity would be a trump card in future negotiations
so I wouldn't want to waste that chance
but I failed
me
6:59 PM
i'm not convinced i want to work with you anymore.
sau ron
6:59 PM
and it doesn't change the situation we are both in now
me
6:59 PM
but we are both forced to.
sau ron
6:59 PM
right
we have to
this isn't up for debtate
if you don't want to lose you will answer my question
me
6:59 PM
so i can lie about anything i want
and you can lie about anything you want
sau ron
6:59 PM
you shouldn't lie about who you are hooking and killing
me
6:59 PM
you haven't even told me
sau ron
7:00 PM
because if you target one of my men by mistake
me
7:00 PM
who the villagers you know are villagers are.
sau ron
7:01 PM
that doesn't matter
they are vanillas
me
7:01 PM
it matters because if they are vanillas then the ones that aren't are more likely to be village power roles.
sau ron
7:05 PM
alright then
We may be willing to give you that info
But let me inform you, there is no reason for you to be so difficult
We will need to work with each other for a while based on how this game is going.
and also
me
7:05 PM
I think there is a reason to be so difficult if you are trying to get negotiation edges on me.
sau ron
7:05 PM
you are doing it too
me
7:05 PM
how?
sau ron
7:05 PM
don't act like I am the only bad guy here
me
7:05 PM
i have to act out of self-preservation.
sau ron
7:06 PM
You are constantly fishing info out of us that you don't need
Also you are trying to be the one who dominates the negotiation
in terms of targets
me
7:06 PM
i have to because you have more information.
sau ron
7:07 PM
You would be surprised
We actually don't have that much!
The vanillas we found
Is pretty much the only thing we have that you don't
me
7:07 PM
i doubt that.
sau ron
7:07 PM
Trust me, it's true.
me
7:07 PM
well then tell me the information.
let's be on the same page.
sau ron
7:10 PM
My teammates don't care anymore so I will reveal it
one sec
Pidge, Mithril, and zorbees
all soldiers of gondor
Now answer my question
We need to know your night actions tonight
me
7:11 PM
depends on who you plan to kill/hook
it is in both of our best interest
sau ron
7:11 PM
You already know the answers
me
7:11 PM
to preserve ourselves
sau ron
7:11 PM
LN
as you have suggested
me
7:11 PM
okay
sau ron
7:11 PM
you are killing Eagle4
right?
me
7:12 PM
that depends
on whether or not there actually was a fellowship-wide BG
sau ron
7:12 PM
Do you still think we are lying?
me
7:12 PM
i think that i cannot trust the information you have told me yesterday.
sau ron
7:12 PM
...
You are joking right
me
7:13 PM
yes.
who do you think legolas is more likely to protect?
sau ron
7:13 PM
We think LW
me
7:13 PM
if eagle4 cannot be protected
how was he able to survive?
sau ron
7:14 PM
Last night?
me
7:14 PM
yes
sau ron
7:14 PM
I don't really understand it fully myself
I thought it was
me
7:14 PM
did you inspect him or did he claim to ullar during that mess?
sau ron
7:14 PM
Legolas cant protect the same people twice in a row
Eagle4?
He claimed to Ullar
me
7:14 PM
want to copypaste what he told eagle4?
sau ron
7:15 PM
I don't have his logs
But on our sheet it says he claimed tracker
However we have a hunch he might be something more
me
7:16 PM
what makes you say that?
sau ron
7:17 PM
Because we already attempted to kill him once before
he was protected by legolas
me
7:18 PM
when was this?
sau ron
7:18 PM
this was the night before we contacted you
in other words
He was protected by Legolas
Following the all team BG
me
7:19 PM
then legolas would very likely protect him again.
sau ron
7:19 PM
That's possible, but then who will protect LW?
I think he could be protected again certainly but
me
7:20 PM
at this stage in the game, do you really think that inspection will be worth having alive?
at least compared to a tracker
i think by now lightwolf has devised a plan with his inner circle.
sau ron
7:21 PM
Well in that case I am open to changing plans
me
7:21 PM
Do you have men claimed under both rohirrim and gondor?
sau ron
7:22 PM
Not telling
You shouldn't need that info
Here's how we should do this
If not eagle4
I will give you a user to kill
me
7:22 PM
i'm going to assume you do because I am not revealing what I claimed as but we should get rid of those alliance checkers.
sau ron
7:22 PM
who is definitely not one of us
as well as a hook target
me
7:22 PM
the rohirrim/gondor checkers
I am assuming LN is not one of yours
sau ron
7:22 PM
no
I already said we agree to killing him
me
7:23 PM
you could've been lying.
do you know who the rohirrim checker is?
sau ron
7:23 PM
No
me
7:23 PM
well then i suppose we are screwed.
sau ron
7:23 PM
I agree with your general strategy of getting rid of the checkers
Why, did you claim rohirrim?
me
7:24 PM
I am trying to be neutral here since neither of us are willing to share information about what we claimed.
sau ron
7:24 PM
That isn't really important at this point
If you don't think Eagle4 is worth killing based on what I have told you
me
7:25 PM
I think that Eagle4 is worth killing, don't get me wrong
sau ron
7:25 PM
well yeah
i mean that he might be protected
me
7:25 PM
but as far as what I am concerned he may very well be legolas bodyguarded tonight.
stop being a bitch.
sau ron
7:25 PM
what did I do
I am merely repeating what you said
me
7:26 PM
you're putting words in my mouth if you said that i don't think that eagle4 is worth killing
you'd be a terrible lawyer.
sau ron
7:27 PM
Don't take it so literally
And drop the tough guy act
meant not worth killing NOW
Now can you tell us who you were going to hook
or shall I provide you a target
me
7:28 PM
who do you suggest?
you clearly have someone you want me to hook so put it out there.
sau ron
7:28 PM
Not necessarily
It will be a shot in the dark
but
It is better than you not telling us and hooking my guys by mistake
So how about
hmmm
me
7:29 PM
give me three names. nice arbitrary number.
sau ron
7:29 PM
Aura Guardian
me
7:29 PM
so that you cannot try to guess who i am.
sau ron
7:29 PM
ginganinja
and
uh
reyscarface
me
7:29 PM
interesting choices.
sau ron
7:29 PM
can you comment
on each of them?
me
7:30 PM
so much regurgitation but i have to question why aura guardian
reyscarface was just a random, he seems to trust LW
sau ron
7:30 PM
he has kept a very low profile
so im thinking the power roles
are probably being kept low in general
however
i also listed people like rey
as they are not quite as low profile
i wanted to hear your theory
me
7:31 PM
ginganinja has been trying to lay low, so lightwolf had to have been skeptical of him.
sau ron
7:31 PM
we already mentioned earlier that ginga is not us
so
me
7:32 PM
i think killing him is not a good idea because i suspect the village does not have a strong enough role
that lightwolf would risk having hooked
sau ron
7:32 PM
what about hooking him
me
7:32 PM
not worth our time.
sau ron
7:32 PM
so that leaves
AG and rey
me
7:33 PM
i hvae not honestly looked at AG much.
he always seems to be a nonfactor.
sau ron
7:33 PM
so you are thinking rey then?
me
7:33 PM
yeah
sau ron
7:33 PM
ok
me
7:33 PM
as you said
sau ron
7:33 PM
which one
me
7:33 PM
he has kept a low profile
sau ron
7:33 PM
kill or hook?
me
7:33 PM
i don't know.
sau ron
7:33 PM
you are the one doing this so it is up to you to decide
also we should kill someone else
me
7:34 PM
hm
sau ron
7:34 PM
err kill or hook
as in dont hook / kill the same guy
me
7:34 PM
no keep the target on LN
sau ron
7:34 PM
right
we will
me
7:34 PM
we may as well get rid of an inspector that will not be protected.
sau ron
7:34 PM
im talking about you
me
7:35 PM
i think i will probably kill reyscarface
and hook eagle4.
you should hook lightwolf.
sau ron
7:35 PM
do you mind if we do this in reverse?
me
7:35 PM
what do you mean?
sau ron
7:36 PM
let me just tell you
our backup hook and inspect requires all orcs to submit the action
i told them to hook eagle4 until we decided
so
because im worried we cant change
me
7:36 PM
okay
sau ron
7:36 PM
alright, thanks
me
7:36 PM
so i will be hooking lightwolf
sau ron
7:36 PM
we will hook eagle4
you kill rey
we kill ln
deal?
me
7:37 PM
deal.
sau ron
7:37 PM
Alright, nice working with you
me
7:37 PM
nice actually getting somewhere with you.
sau ron
7:37 PM
Hopefully we can be more productive in the future!
I think speaking in this chat helps
me
7:37 PM
hopefully so!
sau ron
7:37 PM
It won't leave a record but
It is faster
6:14 PM
i know youre there
sau ron
6:57 PM
i was at an appointment but left my comp on sorry
anyway
please answer the question
me
6:57 PM
you tell me why i should still trust you.
sau ron
6:57 PM
...
why are you being so difficult
me
6:58 PM
because i caught you lying about something twice in the same day.
sau ron
6:59 PM
it is obvious why i did that
knowing your identity would be a trump card in future negotiations
so I wouldn't want to waste that chance
but I failed
me
6:59 PM
i'm not convinced i want to work with you anymore.
sau ron
6:59 PM
and it doesn't change the situation we are both in now
me
6:59 PM
but we are both forced to.
sau ron
6:59 PM
right
we have to
this isn't up for debtate
if you don't want to lose you will answer my question
me
6:59 PM
so i can lie about anything i want
and you can lie about anything you want
sau ron
6:59 PM
you shouldn't lie about who you are hooking and killing
me
6:59 PM
you haven't even told me
sau ron
7:00 PM
because if you target one of my men by mistake
me
7:00 PM
who the villagers you know are villagers are.
sau ron
7:01 PM
that doesn't matter
they are vanillas
me
7:01 PM
it matters because if they are vanillas then the ones that aren't are more likely to be village power roles.
sau ron
7:05 PM
alright then
We may be willing to give you that info
But let me inform you, there is no reason for you to be so difficult
We will need to work with each other for a while based on how this game is going.
and also
me
7:05 PM
I think there is a reason to be so difficult if you are trying to get negotiation edges on me.
sau ron
7:05 PM
you are doing it too
me
7:05 PM
how?
sau ron
7:05 PM
don't act like I am the only bad guy here
me
7:05 PM
i have to act out of self-preservation.
sau ron
7:06 PM
You are constantly fishing info out of us that you don't need
Also you are trying to be the one who dominates the negotiation
in terms of targets
me
7:06 PM
i have to because you have more information.
sau ron
7:07 PM
You would be surprised
We actually don't have that much!
The vanillas we found
Is pretty much the only thing we have that you don't
me
7:07 PM
i doubt that.
sau ron
7:07 PM
Trust me, it's true.
me
7:07 PM
well then tell me the information.
let's be on the same page.
sau ron
7:10 PM
My teammates don't care anymore so I will reveal it
one sec
Pidge, Mithril, and zorbees
all soldiers of gondor
Now answer my question
We need to know your night actions tonight
me
7:11 PM
depends on who you plan to kill/hook
it is in both of our best interest
sau ron
7:11 PM
You already know the answers
me
7:11 PM
to preserve ourselves
sau ron
7:11 PM
LN
as you have suggested
me
7:11 PM
okay
sau ron
7:11 PM
you are killing Eagle4
right?
me
7:12 PM
that depends
on whether or not there actually was a fellowship-wide BG
sau ron
7:12 PM
Do you still think we are lying?
me
7:12 PM
i think that i cannot trust the information you have told me yesterday.
sau ron
7:12 PM
...
You are joking right
me
7:13 PM
yes.
who do you think legolas is more likely to protect?
sau ron
7:13 PM
We think LW
me
7:13 PM
if eagle4 cannot be protected
how was he able to survive?
sau ron
7:14 PM
Last night?
me
7:14 PM
yes
sau ron
7:14 PM
I don't really understand it fully myself
I thought it was
me
7:14 PM
did you inspect him or did he claim to ullar during that mess?
sau ron
7:14 PM
Legolas cant protect the same people twice in a row
Eagle4?
He claimed to Ullar
me
7:14 PM
want to copypaste what he told eagle4?
sau ron
7:15 PM
I don't have his logs
But on our sheet it says he claimed tracker
However we have a hunch he might be something more
me
7:16 PM
what makes you say that?
sau ron
7:17 PM
Because we already attempted to kill him once before
he was protected by legolas
me
7:18 PM
when was this?
sau ron
7:18 PM
this was the night before we contacted you
in other words
He was protected by Legolas
Following the all team BG
me
7:19 PM
then legolas would very likely protect him again.
sau ron
7:19 PM
That's possible, but then who will protect LW?
I think he could be protected again certainly but
me
7:20 PM
at this stage in the game, do you really think that inspection will be worth having alive?
at least compared to a tracker
i think by now lightwolf has devised a plan with his inner circle.
sau ron
7:21 PM
Well in that case I am open to changing plans
me
7:21 PM
Do you have men claimed under both rohirrim and gondor?
sau ron
7:22 PM
Not telling
You shouldn't need that info
Here's how we should do this
If not eagle4
I will give you a user to kill
me
7:22 PM
i'm going to assume you do because I am not revealing what I claimed as but we should get rid of those alliance checkers.
sau ron
7:22 PM
who is definitely not one of us
as well as a hook target
me
7:22 PM
the rohirrim/gondor checkers
I am assuming LN is not one of yours
sau ron
7:22 PM
no
I already said we agree to killing him
me
7:23 PM
you could've been lying.
do you know who the rohirrim checker is?
sau ron
7:23 PM
No
me
7:23 PM
well then i suppose we are screwed.
sau ron
7:23 PM
I agree with your general strategy of getting rid of the checkers
Why, did you claim rohirrim?
me
7:24 PM
I am trying to be neutral here since neither of us are willing to share information about what we claimed.
sau ron
7:24 PM
That isn't really important at this point
If you don't think Eagle4 is worth killing based on what I have told you
me
7:25 PM
I think that Eagle4 is worth killing, don't get me wrong
sau ron
7:25 PM
well yeah
i mean that he might be protected
me
7:25 PM
but as far as what I am concerned he may very well be legolas bodyguarded tonight.
stop being a bitch.
sau ron
7:25 PM
what did I do
I am merely repeating what you said
me
7:26 PM
you're putting words in my mouth if you said that i don't think that eagle4 is worth killing
you'd be a terrible lawyer.
sau ron
7:27 PM
Don't take it so literally
And drop the tough guy act
meant not worth killing NOW
Now can you tell us who you were going to hook
or shall I provide you a target
me
7:28 PM
who do you suggest?
you clearly have someone you want me to hook so put it out there.
sau ron
7:28 PM
Not necessarily
It will be a shot in the dark
but
It is better than you not telling us and hooking my guys by mistake
So how about
hmmm
me
7:29 PM
give me three names. nice arbitrary number.
sau ron
7:29 PM
Aura Guardian
me
7:29 PM
so that you cannot try to guess who i am.
sau ron
7:29 PM
ginganinja
and
uh
reyscarface
me
7:29 PM
interesting choices.
sau ron
7:29 PM
can you comment
on each of them?
me
7:30 PM
so much regurgitation but i have to question why aura guardian
reyscarface was just a random, he seems to trust LW
sau ron
7:30 PM
he has kept a very low profile
so im thinking the power roles
are probably being kept low in general
however
i also listed people like rey
as they are not quite as low profile
i wanted to hear your theory
me
7:31 PM
ginganinja has been trying to lay low, so lightwolf had to have been skeptical of him.
sau ron
7:31 PM
we already mentioned earlier that ginga is not us
so
me
7:32 PM
i think killing him is not a good idea because i suspect the village does not have a strong enough role
that lightwolf would risk having hooked
sau ron
7:32 PM
what about hooking him
me
7:32 PM
not worth our time.
sau ron
7:32 PM
so that leaves
AG and rey
me
7:33 PM
i hvae not honestly looked at AG much.
he always seems to be a nonfactor.
sau ron
7:33 PM
so you are thinking rey then?
me
7:33 PM
yeah
sau ron
7:33 PM
ok
me
7:33 PM
as you said
sau ron
7:33 PM
which one
me
7:33 PM
he has kept a low profile
sau ron
7:33 PM
kill or hook?
me
7:33 PM
i don't know.
sau ron
7:33 PM
you are the one doing this so it is up to you to decide
also we should kill someone else
me
7:34 PM
hm
sau ron
7:34 PM
err kill or hook
as in dont hook / kill the same guy
me
7:34 PM
no keep the target on LN
sau ron
7:34 PM
right
we will
me
7:34 PM
we may as well get rid of an inspector that will not be protected.
sau ron
7:34 PM
im talking about you
me
7:35 PM
i think i will probably kill reyscarface
and hook eagle4.
you should hook lightwolf.
sau ron
7:35 PM
do you mind if we do this in reverse?
me
7:35 PM
what do you mean?
sau ron
7:36 PM
let me just tell you
our backup hook and inspect requires all orcs to submit the action
i told them to hook eagle4 until we decided
so
because im worried we cant change
me
7:36 PM
okay
sau ron
7:36 PM
alright, thanks
me
7:36 PM
so i will be hooking lightwolf
sau ron
7:36 PM
we will hook eagle4
you kill rey
we kill ln
deal?
me
7:37 PM
deal.
sau ron
7:37 PM
Alright, nice working with you
me
7:37 PM
nice actually getting somewhere with you.
sau ron
7:37 PM
Hopefully we can be more productive in the future!
I think speaking in this chat helps
me
7:37 PM
hopefully so!
sau ron
7:37 PM
It won't leave a record but
It is faster
While this was happening, ipl had decided to claim to be the traitor, arguably the best play of any orc and possibly mafia as it forced the traitor to keep him alive and actually give ipl enough information to convince Bass he is the traitor. Fortunately while I was online, so was aska. Sam was nice enough to set up another form of anonymous google doc communication, which as soon as I had sent the request, I wanted to cancel because I had nothing to give ipl and would rather leave him dry and hangin than give him basically nothing. I never made a fake, so the idea of Tom Bombadil came to mind as the possible traitor. Absolutely shitty fake was made, but I made a role PM for it.
Dear Steven Snype, you are Tom Bombadil.
Master of wood, water, and hill, you are one of the most aged and ancient powers in Middle Earth. You are immune to most of the effects of the One Ring and actually do not particularly care about this conflict. All you want is peace in your own country.
Your ancient presence lets you assume the form that will shield yourself against most inspection-based abilities. To the common inspection, you will show up as an Orc. However, there are still some tangible methods to pierce this inspection.
Should you be lynched, you may submit a PM titled ‘DX - Send Old Man Willow onto <user>’ The lynch will stop as everyone gazes in awe at Old Man Willow, who will attack <user> instead, killing him. Any other vote-related effects will still apply though.
You do not particularly care so much about this outcome so long as you have your country, but everyone involved in this conflict is ravaging your country, except for a select few.You know that the Orcs will leave your country alone as they have better things to do and they are only here because they are on the orders of their commanders. You have encountered a few Hobbits, but they were relatively peaceful. You also know that both Smeagol and Gollum are in this game, but they would prefer to be isolated and thus will not bother you.
You win if you are alive and the last standing members are Orcs, Hobbits, Smeagol, and Gollum.
Master of wood, water, and hill, you are one of the most aged and ancient powers in Middle Earth. You are immune to most of the effects of the One Ring and actually do not particularly care about this conflict. All you want is peace in your own country.
Your ancient presence lets you assume the form that will shield yourself against most inspection-based abilities. To the common inspection, you will show up as an Orc. However, there are still some tangible methods to pierce this inspection.
Should you be lynched, you may submit a PM titled ‘DX - Send Old Man Willow onto <user>’ The lynch will stop as everyone gazes in awe at Old Man Willow, who will attack <user> instead, killing him. Any other vote-related effects will still apply though.
You do not particularly care so much about this outcome so long as you have your country, but everyone involved in this conflict is ravaging your country, except for a select few.You know that the Orcs will leave your country alone as they have better things to do and they are only here because they are on the orders of their commanders. You have encountered a few Hobbits, but they were relatively peaceful. You also know that both Smeagol and Gollum are in this game, but they would prefer to be isolated and thus will not bother you.
You win if you are alive and the last standing members are Orcs, Hobbits, Smeagol, and Gollum.
At the time, all I had was the lynch redirect written out and that’s what I gave ipl. Oh access to that conversation was: anon5968@gmail.com password: anocymous. Somehow, he thought I was aska, so I rolled with it and didn’t say anything, minimizing contact with him unless he straight up asked for it, which was only one other time and the time I happened to respond, so did aska.
As a result, Bass decided to let all the orcs except for ipl in, including me. That above conversation, I was witnessing both sides of a negotiation happen (completely unfair advantage) and I passed off that unfairness as douchebaggery. Also, for whatever reason, Bass and all the other members of Sauron thought:
[17:10] <~Forte> also if i had to guess
[17:11] <~Forte> gollum is most likely ag
I’m completely sorry AG, but there is some predetermined hate on you that jumpluff and I feel is completely unjustified, making you the easiest pawn so I tried to use mannerisms/excuses that sounded like you, even though there were complete contradictions from earlier.
[19:31] <~Forte> as soon as i mention ag
[19:31] <&penguin344> he backed down
[19:31] <&penguin344> majorly
[19:32] <&soviet> whats happening
[19:32] <&soviet> is it some shit in middlearrth
[19:32] <~Forte> no
[19:32] <~Forte> im talking to gollum over google docs
[19:32] <&soviet> oh
[19:33] <~Forte> who im almost certain is Aura_Guardian now
[19:33] <&soviet> does he know who you are
[19:33] <&Blue_Tornado> next mafia should have anonymous chat over google hangout with masks
[19:35] <&penguin344> i like the
[19:35] <&penguin344> "ag is usually a nonfactor"
[19:35] <&penguin344> very smooth
[19:35] <&Blue_Tornado> lol
[19:35] <@Ullar> kill aG
[19:35] <@Ullar> BURN THE FOOL
[19:35] <&penguin344> we don't want ag dead though
[19:36] <&penguin344> we need his kill
Also, I had power to veto the orc hook + inspect, which became a 2/3 vote-to-decide-who-gets-hooked-and-only-works-while-there-is-an-orc-chieftain (something I actually just now noticed and should change the end-game result), but I had no actual vote for the orc protection. This orc hook + inspect only applied while I was undercover.
I could go more, but word doc says this is currently at 27 pages and it is 8 am. I should sleep.
Yada yada yada. Rey and xenu were complete rands, no knowledge of them. LN talked to me about the whole gondor lynchpin thing, which I brought up to Paperblade.
As to why I opened up, after AG was lynched, I had talked to ginganinja about lynch targets, and he had said I was up on the chopping block because they wanted to get rid of Gollum so their plan was to lynch/rohirrim every active, intelligent player (which he said were 3 of us), so that even if Gollum wasn’t one of them.
Andrew> .
<ginganinja> ..
<ginganinja> ???
<Andrew> !!!!
<ginganinja> ^^^^^
<Andrew> vvvvvv
<ginganinja> GGGGGGG
<Andrew> UUUUUUUU
<Andrew> ok so does nobody have a clue itg?
<ginganinja> OOOOOOOO)
<ginganinja> FUCK
<ginganinja> prolly not
<Andrew> :/
<ginganinja> but seeing as I do
<ginganinja> anything you wish to say
<Andrew> i have no idea what i'm doing
<ginganinja> (I have to go afk in about 4 mins for dinner tho)
<Andrew> what are your thoughts?
<ginganinja> village has a mole
<ginganinja> I am fairly sure
<Andrew> if there is a mole
<Andrew> how do i know you're not the mole?
<ginganinja> yea yea, it could be me
<ginganinja> except
<ginganinja> I was cleaned last
<ginganinja> and the mafia were hitting power roles way before that
<Andrew> i don't necessarily know that
<Andrew> i guess i should ask paperblade about that
<ginganinja> you don't
<ginganinja> and you can
<Andrew> though it is interesting that he has been alive
<ginganinja> dinner
<ginganinja> back in 20~
<Andrew> ok
<ginganinja> back
<Andrew> wb
<Andrew>http://images.alexonsager.net/pokemon/fused/42/42.129.png
<ginganinja> wonderful
<ginganinja> so, are you going to admit to being gollum
<Andrew>http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--DaZXhG2yvE/Uga1uoMh56I/AAAAAAAAOLw/9g2cj4EZfQs/s1600/you-got-me.gif
<ginganinja> is that sarcasm
<Andrew> if you are on the sheet you know what i am
<ginganinja> correction
<ginganinja> I know what you claimed
<Andrew> well i claim it because i am it
<ginganinja> ic
<ginganinja> well, its either you or two others
<ginganinja> :/
<Andrew> why do you think gollum could be me?
<Andrew> also why do you say that i am gollum as opposed to mafia or whatever they are called?
<ginganinja> because gollum (I suspect), doesn't win until everyone is dead
<ginganinja> you are been reasonably helpful about getting the village active
<ginganinja> and obviously it won't be long before gollum needs the village
<Andrew> do you understand what it's like playing with no village as a villager?
<Andrew> ofc i want people to play
<Andrew> this game just goes nowhere
<ginganinja> [19:23] <Andrew> do you understand what it's like playing with no village as a villager?
<ginganinja> obviously
<ginganinja> yes
<ginganinja> also it stands to reason that gollum is a resonably intelligent player
<Andrew> then you understand why i want motherfuckers to just talk
<ginganinja> and someone not idling
<ginganinja> which lowers the number of people it could be :/
<ginganinja> and yes, it could be me, blah blah blah
<Andrew> i disagree that it has to be either of those two
<Andrew> because people can get really lucky in games
<ginganinja> its either you or two others
<Andrew> and gollum could be keeping a very low profile
<ginganinja> hes not
<ginganinja> hes sending messages
<ginganinja> to the active playersd
<ginganinja> see: zorbees
<ginganinja> hes also killing every night
<Andrew> what messages has he been sending?
<ginganinja> doesn't seem like someone inactive
<ginganinja> prolly misinformation
<ginganinja> its what zorbees implied
<Andrew> could very well be just an observer
<Andrew> of this game
<Andrew> not actually posting unless he has to
<ginganinja> nah, hes posting
<ginganinja> he knows if he doesn't post he gets lynched
<ginganinja> or vig killed
<Andrew> what makes you say that?
<ginganinja> because thats what we are doing
<Andrew> there's a shitload of people doing nothing
<ginganinja> killing off the inactive villagers?
<ginganinja> yea but he needs to be relatiely competent AND active
<Andrew> how many active players do there look to be?
<ginganinja> there are 7 of us
<ginganinja> that we knew could be gollum
<ginganinja> I included me within that number
<Andrew> because of just activity?
<ginganinja> LW had a chat with us before death
<ginganinja> and we have narrowed that down to 3
<Andrew> out of what?
<Andrew> activity?
<ginganinja> out of who it could be
<Andrew> no i mean
<Andrew> how did you narrow it down to 3?
<ginganinja> process of elimination
<Andrew> off of?
<ginganinja> what day did LW die
<ginganinja> N6
<ginganinja> its now N10
<Andrew> okay
<Andrew> so how have you been eliminating the 4?
<ginganinja> well, some of them died
<ginganinja> so that made it easier
<ginganinja> also we managed to get some minor information from the info roles we did have
<ginganinja> as well as the spread
<ginganinja> and existing conversations with the clean villagers
<Andrew> hm
<Andrew> i see
<ginganinja> I hope so
<Andrew> so is there any way you can clean me then?
<ginganinja> yea
<ginganinja> there is one way
<ginganinja> we could always kill you
<ginganinja> and then apologise if we were wrong
<Andrew> obviously i think you are wrong
<ginganinja> never heard that statement from a wolf before
<ginganinja> but ok!
<Andrew> sounds good from your perspective though
<Andrew> i'm all for it if you think among me and the 2 others
<Andrew> are actually gollum
<ginganinja> meh, I would prefer to actually have a 1 to 1 chat with gollum
<ginganinja> hes co-ordinating with the mafia
<ginganinja> ergo who prolly knows who most of them are
<Andrew> well with the "fuck off gollums" i don't think he seems willing to
<ginganinja> well, hes spreading misinformation
<ginganinja> thats not making him helpful
<ginganinja> and im p sure gollum needs village assistance eventually
<ginganinja> gollum will only target active people
<ginganinja> so if we kill the inactives
<ginganinja> gollum eventually has to stop killing villagers
<ginganinja> hmm
<Andrew> i see
<ginganinja> n its the other way around
<ginganinja> lets kill the actives
<ginganinja> then hes got no-one to co-ordinate with
<ginganinja> and he loses
<Andrew> hm
<Andrew> depends though
<Andrew> on how active the mafia are
<ginganinja> meh, if the village goes down, I'm perfectly ok with the wolf going down as well
<ginganinja> it is, after all, his fault
<Andrew> why is that?
<ginganinja> only gollum could have killed LW
<ginganinja> thats when he picked a side
<ginganinja> if he wants to kill villagers lol, then thats ok
<ginganinja> but as long as he hides in the shadows hes not winning
<Andrew> hm
<Andrew> okay so force him to be kingmaker
<Andrew> rather than have a chance of winning
<ginganinja> thats a more positive way of looking at it
<ginganinja> he doesn't have long though
<ginganinja> theres only so many actives, that he could co-ordinate with
<ginganinja> some of them are mafia
<ginganinja> one of them is him
<ginganinja> and there are roughly 2 kills a night
<Andrew> okay
<Andrew> my question to you though is
<Andrew> do you think if among the 3 of us, who seem intelligent
<Andrew> that if this works and we all die
<ginganinja> is that the question?
<Andrew> that there are
<Andrew> still intelligent players left?
<Andrew> it seems that it is in gollum and mafia's best interests to kill whoever has sheet
<ginganinja> they could
<ginganinja> remember, I'm fairy sure there is a mole
<Andrew> do you plan on making this information public?
<ginganinja> fuck no
<Andrew> no i mean
<Andrew> on
<Andrew> how the village
<Andrew> should play this out
<ginganinja> I am_almost_at the stage when I tell them all to fuck gollum
<ginganinja> and let him lose
<ginganinja> zorbees felt the same way
<ginganinja> and so do many of the clean villagers
<ginganinja> the mafia and gollum can kill them all if they like
<ginganinja> but it only hurts gollum
<ginganinja> can you picture him working with...say...Metal Sonic?
<ginganinja> thats his eventual option
<Andrew> do you think metal sonic would work with anyone?
<Andrew> be real
<Andrew> you've seen how he posts in tournaments
<ginganinja> Metal Sonic is a moron
<ginganinja> thats the point
<ginganinja> if we have moronic villagers
<ginganinja> left
<ginganinja> and no intelligent villagers left
<ginganinja> who has gollum got
<ginganinja> when he needs village support
<ginganinja> a bunch of idiots and inactives
<ginganinja> ..
<ginganinja> ???
<Andrew> !!!!
<ginganinja> ^^^^^
<Andrew> vvvvvv
<ginganinja> GGGGGGG
<Andrew> UUUUUUUU
<Andrew> ok so does nobody have a clue itg?
<ginganinja> OOOOOOOO)
<ginganinja> FUCK
<ginganinja> prolly not
<Andrew> :/
<ginganinja> but seeing as I do
<ginganinja> anything you wish to say
<Andrew> i have no idea what i'm doing
<ginganinja> (I have to go afk in about 4 mins for dinner tho)
<Andrew> what are your thoughts?
<ginganinja> village has a mole
<ginganinja> I am fairly sure
<Andrew> if there is a mole
<Andrew> how do i know you're not the mole?
<ginganinja> yea yea, it could be me
<ginganinja> except
<ginganinja> I was cleaned last
<ginganinja> and the mafia were hitting power roles way before that
<Andrew> i don't necessarily know that
<Andrew> i guess i should ask paperblade about that
<ginganinja> you don't
<ginganinja> and you can
<Andrew> though it is interesting that he has been alive
<ginganinja> dinner
<ginganinja> back in 20~
<Andrew> ok
<ginganinja> back
<Andrew> wb
<Andrew>http://images.alexonsager.net/pokemon/fused/42/42.129.png
<ginganinja> wonderful
<ginganinja> so, are you going to admit to being gollum
<Andrew>http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--DaZXhG2yvE/Uga1uoMh56I/AAAAAAAAOLw/9g2cj4EZfQs/s1600/you-got-me.gif
<ginganinja> is that sarcasm
<Andrew> if you are on the sheet you know what i am
<ginganinja> correction
<ginganinja> I know what you claimed
<Andrew> well i claim it because i am it
<ginganinja> ic
<ginganinja> well, its either you or two others
<ginganinja> :/
<Andrew> why do you think gollum could be me?
<Andrew> also why do you say that i am gollum as opposed to mafia or whatever they are called?
<ginganinja> because gollum (I suspect), doesn't win until everyone is dead
<ginganinja> you are been reasonably helpful about getting the village active
<ginganinja> and obviously it won't be long before gollum needs the village
<Andrew> do you understand what it's like playing with no village as a villager?
<Andrew> ofc i want people to play
<Andrew> this game just goes nowhere
<ginganinja> [19:23] <Andrew> do you understand what it's like playing with no village as a villager?
<ginganinja> obviously
<ginganinja> yes
<ginganinja> also it stands to reason that gollum is a resonably intelligent player
<Andrew> then you understand why i want motherfuckers to just talk
<ginganinja> and someone not idling
<ginganinja> which lowers the number of people it could be :/
<ginganinja> and yes, it could be me, blah blah blah
<Andrew> i disagree that it has to be either of those two
<Andrew> because people can get really lucky in games
<ginganinja> its either you or two others
<Andrew> and gollum could be keeping a very low profile
<ginganinja> hes not
<ginganinja> hes sending messages
<ginganinja> to the active playersd
<ginganinja> see: zorbees
<ginganinja> hes also killing every night
<Andrew> what messages has he been sending?
<ginganinja> doesn't seem like someone inactive
<ginganinja> prolly misinformation
<ginganinja> its what zorbees implied
<Andrew> could very well be just an observer
<Andrew> of this game
<Andrew> not actually posting unless he has to
<ginganinja> nah, hes posting
<ginganinja> he knows if he doesn't post he gets lynched
<ginganinja> or vig killed
<Andrew> what makes you say that?
<ginganinja> because thats what we are doing
<Andrew> there's a shitload of people doing nothing
<ginganinja> killing off the inactive villagers?
<ginganinja> yea but he needs to be relatiely competent AND active
<Andrew> how many active players do there look to be?
<ginganinja> there are 7 of us
<ginganinja> that we knew could be gollum
<ginganinja> I included me within that number
<Andrew> because of just activity?
<ginganinja> LW had a chat with us before death
<ginganinja> and we have narrowed that down to 3
<Andrew> out of what?
<Andrew> activity?
<ginganinja> out of who it could be
<Andrew> no i mean
<Andrew> how did you narrow it down to 3?
<ginganinja> process of elimination
<Andrew> off of?
<ginganinja> what day did LW die
<ginganinja> N6
<ginganinja> its now N10
<Andrew> okay
<Andrew> so how have you been eliminating the 4?
<ginganinja> well, some of them died
<ginganinja> so that made it easier
<ginganinja> also we managed to get some minor information from the info roles we did have
<ginganinja> as well as the spread
<ginganinja> and existing conversations with the clean villagers
<Andrew> hm
<Andrew> i see
<ginganinja> I hope so
<Andrew> so is there any way you can clean me then?
<ginganinja> yea
<ginganinja> there is one way
<ginganinja> we could always kill you
<ginganinja> and then apologise if we were wrong
<Andrew> obviously i think you are wrong
<ginganinja> never heard that statement from a wolf before
<ginganinja> but ok!
<Andrew> sounds good from your perspective though
<Andrew> i'm all for it if you think among me and the 2 others
<Andrew> are actually gollum
<ginganinja> meh, I would prefer to actually have a 1 to 1 chat with gollum
<ginganinja> hes co-ordinating with the mafia
<ginganinja> ergo who prolly knows who most of them are
<Andrew> well with the "fuck off gollums" i don't think he seems willing to
<ginganinja> well, hes spreading misinformation
<ginganinja> thats not making him helpful
<ginganinja> and im p sure gollum needs village assistance eventually
<ginganinja> gollum will only target active people
<ginganinja> so if we kill the inactives
<ginganinja> gollum eventually has to stop killing villagers
<ginganinja> hmm
<Andrew> i see
<ginganinja> n its the other way around
<ginganinja> lets kill the actives
<ginganinja> then hes got no-one to co-ordinate with
<ginganinja> and he loses
<Andrew> hm
<Andrew> depends though
<Andrew> on how active the mafia are
<ginganinja> meh, if the village goes down, I'm perfectly ok with the wolf going down as well
<ginganinja> it is, after all, his fault
<Andrew> why is that?
<ginganinja> only gollum could have killed LW
<ginganinja> thats when he picked a side
<ginganinja> if he wants to kill villagers lol, then thats ok
<ginganinja> but as long as he hides in the shadows hes not winning
<Andrew> hm
<Andrew> okay so force him to be kingmaker
<Andrew> rather than have a chance of winning
<ginganinja> thats a more positive way of looking at it
<ginganinja> he doesn't have long though
<ginganinja> theres only so many actives, that he could co-ordinate with
<ginganinja> some of them are mafia
<ginganinja> one of them is him
<ginganinja> and there are roughly 2 kills a night
<Andrew> okay
<Andrew> my question to you though is
<Andrew> do you think if among the 3 of us, who seem intelligent
<Andrew> that if this works and we all die
<ginganinja> is that the question?
<Andrew> that there are
<Andrew> still intelligent players left?
<Andrew> it seems that it is in gollum and mafia's best interests to kill whoever has sheet
<ginganinja> they could
<ginganinja> remember, I'm fairy sure there is a mole
<Andrew> do you plan on making this information public?
<ginganinja> fuck no
<Andrew> no i mean
<Andrew> on
<Andrew> how the village
<Andrew> should play this out
<ginganinja> I am_almost_at the stage when I tell them all to fuck gollum
<ginganinja> and let him lose
<ginganinja> zorbees felt the same way
<ginganinja> and so do many of the clean villagers
<ginganinja> the mafia and gollum can kill them all if they like
<ginganinja> but it only hurts gollum
<ginganinja> can you picture him working with...say...Metal Sonic?
<ginganinja> thats his eventual option
<Andrew> do you think metal sonic would work with anyone?
<Andrew> be real
<Andrew> you've seen how he posts in tournaments
<ginganinja> Metal Sonic is a moron
<ginganinja> thats the point
<ginganinja> if we have moronic villagers
<ginganinja> left
<ginganinja> and no intelligent villagers left
<ginganinja> who has gollum got
<ginganinja> when he needs village support
<ginganinja> a bunch of idiots and inactives
This defeatist attitude by the villagers with sheet access (I had already sent msgs through IRC on nickserv to warn them, I think Pidge is the only surviving member of this about possible explanations on how the LN/rey/eagle4/LW kills were so wellcollaborated with Xenu/imanalt information known. I knew zorbees wasn’t it, but I did want to instill the idea that whoever was “cleaned” could be a mole role considering Cancerous existed) is terrible. Knowing that the village was not at all in cooperation of working with me, I made it my point then to defeat the village rather than let them win, which was the context of the PM I had sent to Bass. The mafia was actually determined to kill aska, who they had thought was the traitor once they had realized the optonline.net and ipl showed them the logs of the conversation he had with the traitor.
I honestly had considered that I was in the point of defeat and I was kingmaker until this time. I knowingly used my lynch redirect to end the lynch early and I had expected a sense of trust to develop between the anti-village. Bass distrusted it, blamed it on billy, who I had killed, which made sense from what I had learned. All of the theories on who the traitor could be were billy’s ideas from what I understood. I don’t know if Bass lied to me or not, but he certainly seemed unstable to work with, so that is why I chose to kill him first. Billy’s sudden disappearance from IRC for the few days prior had also been noticed and he was apparently still in power of most of the actions, including the kill. So I had willingly made this a beautiful hook.
As to why I think I should win. You can log onto both those email accounts and view the document’s edit history and consider the fact that I had to basically out myself to get the mafia to stop shooting itself in the foot, I maintained a disposition that the mafia could not at all determine who I was until I voluntarily gave myself up. Bass did nothing to help the mafia when billy’s tantrums happened and opted to placate him. He would not have known that askaninjask was the traitor until he sent someone to kill him himself when the village was obviously the larger threat due to how successful they were. The mafia were willing to shoot themselves in the foot much harder than what I had done. Most importantly, I had done most of this game by myself. Bass had a team to work with him until they had died off. Von was killed very early and did not really influence the rest of this game, as typical of any dead person. I spent more hours than Bass did to micromanage the timing of communication as well as planning out conversations, some of which I had to partake both sides of to prevent my identity from being disclosed.
However, that is not to say I didn’t have faults this game. I didn’t do a good job at all in making myself seem like a village outside of inviting people to analyze me when it actually mattered. Maybe that was what von was intended to be, but it’s certainly something that I should have picked up the slack of, and then for the quality that was actually the factor to set it off was my activity in the game trying to seem like a concerned villager along with a hostile attitude towards Gollum. I didn’t have as much stellar activity during the earlygame phase, good thing I didn’t attract LW’s attention, but it definitely contributed towards why I would be a suspect. Then there is of course the fact that I honestly thought I couldn’t win with the village’s attitude rather than just denying ginga anything. You’ve clearly seen that I will do almost anything as I have lynched Paperblade (though he did not indicate to me that he was for it, but by association of cleaned villagers) at the cost of my own redirect.
Lynching Paperblade and getting the ring though motivated me to come back into the game with what was possible and had the mafia not killed me and done what they indicated they would do, I would have actually won this game. However, knowing that the mafia took away a 100% win from me regardless of whatever reason they had, I feel strongly pissed about it, partly because there was no trust when I had hoped there would have been and partly because it's a free win that was taken from me. I would not underestimate how much I am willing to risk myself losing at the sake of the mafia, considering the choice I had made last night, which put them in less favor of winning the game had they killed me. From a practical standpoint of anyone that actually knows me, a crossfire is very likely. Take that over the RNG that the mafia want to play with you, which are already against your odds.
Tl;dr:
lynch Bass
Honestly, I am not going to post a detailed cycle by cycle description of our play like Snype did since it isn't particularly relevant to the current situation. I already have a typed up lengthy document that explains my perspectives on the game, but I'd rather save it until the postgame since I feel posting it now would distract everyone from the points that actually matter here. For now I'll address a few of the points Snype made at the end of his post.
You are also grossly exaggerating billy's behavior and are doing him a great disservice. He was the undisputed leader of our team in the first third of the game, and was put under a lot of pressure. In my opinion, his kill on Celever and his reliance on the echochamber were his only serious faults. His play in the latter half of the game though was somewhat justified, for reasons I have previously stated.
I don't. I already posted my vote, but to reiterate: Lynch Steven Snype.
I don't know about billy, but I was definitely on to you. I suspected aska a little more because of ipl as well as his very aggressive posts against you, but we would have certainly figured out it was you had he died solely on the basis of you being the only other player besides aska who was competent enough to pull all of this off. The timing of ginga being on to you was coincidental. And again, I'd like to stress that having to contend with a wolf that could veto our night actions and out our entire team is a very dangerous thing. Turns out our worst fears came true anyway since the ring gave you an extra layer of protection that we did not know about! Compare that to a village that was superior in numbers but was very likely going to mislynch and had no power roles left at the time. I don't see how you can blame us for fearing you more in that situation.StevenSnype said:
You are also grossly exaggerating billy's behavior and are doing him a great disservice. He was the undisputed leader of our team in the first third of the game, and was put under a lot of pressure. In my opinion, his kill on Celever and his reliance on the echochamber were his only serious faults. His play in the latter half of the game though was somewhat justified, for reasons I have previously stated.
Can you really say that you put more time into this game than me, and that you were motivated to win? Your points about not having a team are moot since that applies to any wolf. Also, by the second half of the game I was doing 95% of the work for my team, even after my death (most of my other teammates contributed very little after their deaths). Of course having to manage communication over the google doc as gollum was time consuming, and I know that you have lost sleep over this game. Guess what though? So have I! At one point I even took several days off of work for this. The point is, *both* of us put a substantial amount of time into this game. However, there is one key difference that I want to reiterate: I was 100% resolved to win from the start, no matter how shitty of a situation my team was in. On the other hand, you were not, and your actions were dictated out of spite.
So you are saying your reason for getting pissed was us taking a 100% win from you? If you were really serious about letting us win, why would this point matter? In order for us to win, it makes perfect sense to prevent you from 100% winning, doesn't it? I have said this over and over again, but why the fuck would anyone ever trust the wolf completely when he claims that he is willing to throw the game for you? To you, the only thing we could have done that would have made you was to comply with every single one of your demands. In other words, "It's ok if you guys win, but only if you do it in a way that has my complete approval". It is a ridiculous premise at best.
This is the only point you made that matters here, but it is completely off the mark. If you are not lynched, then either macle gets lynched to remove the ring, or me or Upside to reduce our numbers to 5/2/1. Killing each other would be tantamount to suicide, isn't that obvious? What will actually happen is that both of us will kill a villager, bringing it to 3/2/1 or 3/3/1, which is dangerously close to the kingmaker scenario that you want. The difference is that this time, the village will not have control of the lynch, so the only chance for us to kill Snype would be to kill him ourselves, which would harder to pull off than lynching him right now. Villagers, do you really want to contend with this?
I don't. I already posted my vote, but to reiterate: Lynch Steven Snype.