NU Luxray (3/∞) (2/2) DOOOOOOOOOONE FINALLY!!!!!!!!!

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me

The most nostalgic of all DPPt Pokemon.

Overview
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Sporting very decent bulk coupled with Intimidate and pure Electric typing, Luxray can be surprisingly tough to take down. Combine that with very impressive mixed attacking stats and Luxray is very capable of holding its own in NU. However, it's held back by its low Speed and shallow offensive movepool, making it hard to accomplish much outside of pivoting. It also faces heavy competition from other Electric-types in the tier such as Raichu, and Electivire, all of which sport better coverage options and better speed Scarf.

Offensive Pivot
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name: Offensive Pivot
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Water
move 4: Volt Switch
ability: Intimidate
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Rash

Moves
========

Thunderbolt is used for its sheer power, being able to OHKO 252 HP Feraligatr and 2HKO many physical walls on the switch. Volt Switch allows you to keep up offensive momentum when you predict the opponent will switch into a Pokemon that isn't a Ground-type. Superpower gives Luxray nice coverage against Steel-types such as Steelix, Klinklang, Probopass, and Ferroseed. Hidden Power Water is used to hit Mega Camerupt, which avoids the 2HKO from Superpower and is immune to Luxray's STAB moves. Hidden Power Grass can be used instead to hit other Pokemon that are immune to Volt Switch, such as Seismitoad and Quagsire. Signal Beam can be used over Volt Switch as a way to deal super effective damage to Psychic- and Grass-types such as Malamar, Ludicolo, and Mesprit. Volt Switch is preferred, however, as it's generally better to simply Volt Switch on their predicted switch and send out an appropriate check.

Set Details
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Maximum Speed is used to tie with all other 252 Speed base 70 Pokemon, including important Water-types such as Ludicolo, Poliwrath, and Samurott. Intimidate is used to lessen the damage taken specifically from Feraligatr on the switch and to encourage the foe to switch out. It's also useful for switching into Flying-type attacks from Swellow, Dodrio, and Archeops. Life Orb is used to ensure the OHKO on all variants of Feraligatr, as without Life Orb Luxray will need a lot of prior damage to do so. It also makes up for Luxray's very average Special Attack and adds a significant power increase to every attack Luxray throws out. Leftovers can be used, however, if you want to keep Luxray alive longer, as Life Orb recoil and damage from attacks add up quickly. A Naive nature can be used, as it allows Luxray to outrun neutral-natured maximum Speed base 80 Pokemon, such as Mesprit.

Usage Tips
========

Generally you should switch Luxray in as soon as the opponent goes to their Feraligatr, as this set's main draw is its ability to beat Feraligatr with offensive pressure combined with Intimidate. Intimidate is a useful ability; if there's a physical attacker that's threatening to sweep, you can use Luxray as death fodder to get off an Intimidate. Additionally, you can click Volt Switch if you ever have a free turn, as Hidden Power Grass and Water deter Ground-types such as Steelix, Seismitoad, Quagsire, and Mega Camerupt from coming in. Against slower teams, you should try to Volt Switch as much as possible, as it builds momentum and can effectively wear down opposing walls throughout the game.

Team Options
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Offensive Pokemon that appreciate Luxray's ability to weaken or remove offensive Water-types are great teammates. Such Pokemon include Typhlosion, Pyroar, and Archeops. Audino is also a decent teammate, as it can heal Luxray with Wishes and switch in on many special attacks aimed at Luxray; in return, Luxray's Intimidate weakens physical attackers. Having Pokemon that can deal with Grass- and Ground-type switch-ins, such as Vileplume or Virizion, is also a good idea.

Guts
########
name: Guts
move 1: Facade
move 2: Wild Charge
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Crunch / Quick Attack
ability: Guts
item: Toxic Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

Moves
========

Facade is the strongest move on this set and is useful for not having to take recoil damage from Wild Charge. It also hits Grass- and Ground-types harder than Ice Fang. Wild Charge is the STAB move on this set, outdamaging Facade versus Pokemon such as Pelipper, Poliwrath, Archeops, and defensive Xatu. Superpower is one of Luxray's best coverage moves, hitting Normal- and Steel-types such as Audino, Lickilicky, Steelix, and Probopass. Crunch prevents Rotom and Golurk from walling the set, and is also useful for wearing down bulky Psychic-types such as Mesprit, Musharna, and Uxie. Quick Attack can be used as a form of priority, allowing Luxray to revenge kill if necessary and finish faster Pokemon that survive one of its powerful attacks.


Set Details
========

An Adamant nature is used to hit as hard as possible, as Luxray is meant to break down walls. A Jolly nature can be used, as it allows Luxray to outrun neutral-natured maximum Speed base 80 Pokemon, such as Mesprit; however, the drop in power is very noticeable. Guts gives a significant power boost when Luxray has a status condition, and it works well with a status Orb. Toxic Orb is used over Flame Orb, as it's unlikely that Luxray will be staying in for more than four turns at a time, which is the threshold at which Toxic Orb will have done more overall damage than Flame Orb.

Usage Tips
========

Try to bring Luxray in on a Pokemon it forces out, such as Feraligatr or Prinplup, giving it a free turn to activate its status Orb. Avoid switching Luxray directly into attacks, as between Wild Charge and Toxic Orb it already takes a lot of residual damage. Slow U-turns, Volt Switches, or Baton Passes from Pokemon such as Probopass, Mesprit, or Musharna are very useful for getting Luxray in safely, as this also activates the Toxic Orb for free.

Team Options
========

Slow Volt Switch or Baton Pass users such as Probopass and Musharna are very helpful, as they can give Luxray a safe switch in to activate its status Orb. Sticky Web support aids Luxray's sweep by slowing down grounded foes, lessening the damage it needs to take before attacking. Healing Wish Mesprit is also a decent teammate, as it can literally give Luxray two chances at sweeping. Pairing Luxray with Zangoose is also very effective, as they share similar checks and counters and Zangoose appreciates having them worn down. Entry hazard support wears down the opponent's team even more effectively, as Luxray forces a lot of switches. Roselia and Garbodor are decent options for Spikes setters.

Other Options
########

A Choice Scarf set with Intimidate and Volt Switch is a decent option but should be left to faster Electric-types such as Raichu. A Choice Band set is a possibility, but Luxray would prefer to just use Guts, as it works well with the powerful Facade and allows Luxray to switch moves. A defensive set with RestTalk and Baby-Doll Eyes could be used, but Luxray is outclassed as a defensive Electric-type by Stunfisk, which has access to Stealth Rock, and outclassed as a defensive Pokemon that resists Flying by Steelix and Regirock.


Checks & Counters
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**Ground-types**: Bulky Ground-types such as Quagsire, Seismitoad, and Steelix can switch in relatively safely to any of Luxray's attacks, barring Hidden Power Grass in Quagsire and Seismitoad's cases, and threaten to KO back with their STAB moves. Offensive Ground-types, such as Sandslash, can switch in on a predicted STAB attack and threaten to KO the next turn.

**Bulky Grass-types**: Pokemon such as Vileplume, Gourgeist, Virizion, and Tangela can switch into most attacks and shrug off the hit rather unscathed. They can then threaten Luxray offensively or stall it out to rack up status Orb damage.

**Specially Bulky Pokemon**: Specially bulky Pokemon that aren't weak to Superpower, such as Musharna and Mega Audino, can easily switch into Luxray, take any hit, and recover off the damage.

**Faster Attackers**: Faster Pokemon can come in after a KO and force Luxray out due to its low Speed.
 
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Punchshroom

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You'll need to emphasize that Luxray faces heavy competition from Electivire which has greater coverage, power, and speed, while failing to stand out very much from most other Electric-types in general.
 

Punchshroom

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Funny thing: boosted Facade actually hits harder than Wild Charge and doesn't cause recoil, making it the safer move to spam in most cases. The obvious downside is not hitting anything super effectively. In fact, boosted Facade hits harder than SE Ice Fang, so Ice Fang's use is heavily diminished.

I actually think Luxray's first attack should be Facade, followed by Wild Charge and Superpower. Honestly these 3 attacks are all it really needs for most of the meta, with either Crunch for Golurk & Rotom or Quick Attack for priority in the last slot.
 
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Martin

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Guts
########
name: Guts
move 1: Wild Charge
move 2: Superpower
move 3: Facade
move 4: Quick Attack / Crunch

ability: Guts
item: Toxic Orb
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant
formatting problem here.

Also Facade to the top for the reasons stated by Punchshroom.

For the bulky pivot set, may I suggest a spread of 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Spe to outpace Timid Gorebyss before a Shell Smash so as to get a little more power on the Superpower.
 
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CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
formatting problem here.

Also Facade to the top for the reasons stated by Punchshroom.

For the bulky pivot set, may I suggest a spread of 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 196 Spe to outpace Timid Gorebyss before a Shell Smash so as to get a little more power on the Superpower.
You can mess with spread if you wish, but it severely cripples it ability to check Gatr as Lux would then reply on prior damage to kill it.
Also you already outspeed gore by like 15 points :]
 

CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
i just realized,, didn't you make fun of me day 1 for choosing floatzel, and here you are with luxray,, :S
a] this has nothing to do with anything
b] no I didnt? Floatzel is a great mon.. infact so is luxray n_n
c] do u just look for opportunities to flame me, cause you're rlly good at it :]

Yeah Facade to first, this is really the move Guts Luxray would be spamming most of the time.
I'll do it to ease your mind, move order rlly means nothing when there's 3 attacking moves you need to have anyway;; it would be like arguing over what goes first on terrakion: stone edge or CC .__.


all done and ready - pick more flaws please
 
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boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Dunno why 252 hp feraligatr is mentioned as a target for tbolt in moves of the first set, as any good player will run at least ~70 speed evs on SD Gatr (therefore not max hp), and probably a lot more speed on DD variants. Just mention that tbolt KOs most if not all feraligatr sets.
 

Martin

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You can mess with spread if you wish, but it severely cripples it ability to check Gatr as Lux would then reply on prior damage to kill it.
Also you already outspeed gore by like 15 points :]
Well, you can't outpace max speed Jolly Feraligatr anyway - even with Naive - and you only need 136 to outpace 72 speed adamant Feraligatr. The main reason I did that was to give Superpower wallbreaking power, as the set is as much a wallbreaker as it is a bulky pivot tbh. I'd say either 136 or 196 - you choose - to outpace their respective benchmarks and to give it a little more power behind Superpower. If you are thinking about max speed Adamant (not on the analysis, but some people probably think jolly is unnecessary with DD), it requires the use of Naive with 228+ speed investment to outpace, but then you sacrefice a lot of power on anything not called Superpower, so it isn't recommended. Luxray is primarily a bulky attacker for the pivot set, wallbreaking things like Alomomola (man, it going up on the generation shift makes thinking of physically bulky Water-types that much harder) physically defensive Caracosta (Thunderbolt); Audino, Lickilicky, Probopass, specially defensive Ferroseed, and the rare Regice (Superpower); physically defensive Feroseed and standard defensive Vileplume (HP Fire). If you leave Attack almost uninvested, you lose a large amount of wallbreaking power. That is why I suggested reducing the speed investment to bolster attack a little, just to get that extra wallbreaking power behind it.
Floatzel is a great mon.. infact so is luxray n_n
^i approve^
 
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CanadianWifier

Run Away With Me
Well, you can't outpace max speed Jolly Feraligatr anyway - even with Naive - and you only need 140 to outpace 76 speed adamant Feraligatr. The main reason I did that was to give Superpower wallbreaking power, as the set is as much a wallbreaker as it is a bulky pivot tbh. I'd say either 140 or 196 - you choose - to outpace their respective benchmarks and to give it a little more power behind Superpower. If you are thinking about max speed Adamant (not on the analysis, but some people probably think jolly is unnecessary with DD), it requires the use of Naive with 228+ speed investment to outpace, but then you sacrefice a lot of power on anything not called Superpower. Luxray is primarily a bulky attacker for the pivot set, wallbreaking things like Alomomola (man, it going up on the generation shift makes thinking of physically bulky Water-types that much harder) physically defensive Caracosta (Thunderbolt); Audino, Lickilicky, Probopass, specially defensive Ferroseed, and the rare Regice (Superpower); physically defensive Feroseed and standard defensive Vileplume (HP Fire). If you leave Attack almost uninvested, you lose a large amount of wallbreaking power. That is why I suggested reducing the speed investment to bolster attack a little, just to get that extra wallbreaking power behind it.

^i approve^
Jolly max speed Feraligatr doesn't exist :P
Even if the gatr is faster and hits you before you can T-bolt, -1 Adamant Life Orb Waterfall only does 45%, so the problem isn't so much outspeeding [though it is nice, which is why I'm running max Speed], but killing after you take the hit. therefore, there's no reason to sacrifice the Rash nature, as you need the power to be ensured the OHKO against even the bulkiest of gatr after you do take that hit.

Most things switching into Luxray are hit super hard by T-bolt, and those that aren't [Licky, Audino, Ferroseed] are 2hko'd by 0 Atk superpower - there's no reason to move any SAtk away from T-bolt to change a 2hko into a 2hko. I can understand there might be a few circumstances where a bit of attack could help [you come in on a Licky already at 70% and can ohko it with a bit of investment] but those are rather rare, and srsly this is just the best spread Luxray can pull off to not be outclassed by E-vire.
I appreciate the feedback though ^_^
 

Martin

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Jolly max speed Feraligatr doesn't exist :P
Even if the gatr is faster and hits you before you can T-bolt, -1 Adamant Life Orb Waterfall only does 45%, so the problem isn't so much outspeeding [though it is nice, which is why I'm running max Speed], but killing after you take the hit. therefore, there's no reason to sacrifice the Rash nature, as you need the power to be ensured the OHKO against even the bulkiest of gatr after you do take that hit.
I never suggested that. I was saying that max adamant requires it to outpace, but it sacrefices too much power to do it. Here is the confirmation of that:
me said:
If you are thinking about max speed Adamant (not on the analysis, but some people probably think jolly is unnecessary with DD), it requires the use of Naive with 228+ speed investment to outpace, but then you sacrefice a lot of power on anything not called Superpower, so it isn't recommended.
Also I was basing Jolly from the DD set on the analysis. While I know that it isn't that common, I was basing it on what was on the analysis (which, may I add, you QC checked) and the knowledge that it isn't completely unseen as it helps you with outpacing a larger number of scarfers at +1, as well as Swellow.
Most things switching into Luxray are hit super hard by T-bolt, and those that aren't [Licky, Audino, Ferroseed] are 2hko'd by 0 Atk superpower - there's no reason to move any SAtk away from T-bolt to change a 2hko into a 2hko. I can understand there might be a few circumstances where a bit of attack could help [you come in on a Licky already at 70% and can ohko it with a bit of investment] but those are rather rare, and srsly this is just the best spread Luxray can pull off to not be outclassed by E-vire.
I also never said to remove from SpA—i said to take it out of Spe. I presonally don't see the use of running max speed as I don't see what it helps Luxray do, and those circumstances, no matter how rare, do occur, and I consider normal battle conditions to be around 60-80% HP anyway, making that lickilicky scenario suprisingly more likely than you may think (if you were to follow the same logic as me—not saying you should or that you shouldn't as it is your life, after all, and "normal battle conditions" may be different to you than it is to me).

Sorry if I sound like I'm nagging and/or being a little arrogant, and the latter is something which I'm working on, but it is something that I have noticed on the analysis.
 
a] this has nothing to do with anything
b] no I didnt? Floatzel is a great mon.. infact so is luxray n_n
c] do u just look for opportunities to flame me, cause you're rlly good at it :]
oh no, the personal attacks are here,,, (i wrote the floatzel analysis so i think i would know better than anyone that its a good mon in xy nu)
anyways, mention bulky electrics like lanturn being a pain to any non guts facade set[:
 

Ares

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So just wondering if HP grass should get a mention in moves or if it should get mentioned in oo. It seems kind of redundant ill admit, but otherwise this set gets hard walled by toad and Lanturn. I'm leaning towards oo.

This is also a bump for yah TCW
 

Punchshroom

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Moves
========
  • Facade is second strongest move on this set, and is useful for not having to take recoil damage from Wild Charge vs neutral hits. It also hits Grass- and Ground-types harder than Ice Fang
Yeah I just noticed this. Facade is the strongest move on the set; the reason I asked you to move it first that time is because putting Wild Charge first can make people mistakenly believe that Wild Charge is the move to spam most of the time (due to STAB), when it's really not.

Also you don't need to mention Ice Fang here, since it looks like it came out of nowhere. Mention Ice Fang in OO instead, and state that the only relevant target not hit harder by its main attacks is Torterra.
 

Martin

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is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
So just wondering if HP grass should get a mention in moves or if it should get mentioned in oo. It seems kind of redundant ill admit, but otherwise this set gets hard walled by toad and Lanturn. I'm leaning towards oo.

This is also a bump for yah TCW
HP Grass is Luxray's best way of hitting Seismitoad too as the current set has no way of touching it. IMO slash it before HP Fire, if not removing it entirely as Physdef Ferroseed is already hit hard enough by Superpower anyway, while Vileplume still walls it with HP Fire anyway (assuming the spread on the calc is the common one):
  • 4 Atk Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferroseed: 156-184 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 64 Atk Luxray Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferroseed: 164-194 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • 252+ SpA Luxray Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Vileplume: 126-150 (35.5 - 42.3%) -- 91.3% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
 

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