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Magezone or Magneton?

Nova

Nova

snitches get stitches
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So I see that Magnezone is OU while Magneton is RU but I've heard people sayig that Magneton is actually better. I wanted to get your guys' opinions on who you think is the better overall poke.

Magnezone Pros
-Higher HP and SpAtk
-Able to hold leftovers, choice items, etc.

Magneton Pros
-Faster
-Greater bulk, Eviolite
 
In OU, the fact that Magnezone is fairly bulky without consuming the item slot generally makes it the superior choice. The extra speed that Magneton has is usually insignificant. Magnezone's extra power and ability to use Air Balloon, Scarf, and such makes it better overall.

Also Magnezone has the best cry in the game
 
magnezone is always better imo. while its true that magneton has greater bulk with eviolite and is faster, magnezone hits harder and has the extremely useful ability to actually utilize an item. this may not seem like its a huge boon, but it really opens up a whole world of set possibilities for magnezone, while magneton can only really run one set successfully. scarf zone and specs zone are both fantastic, and air balloon is also a great utility item. on more defensive sets, leftovers recovery is also really nice. even though magneton is fine, magnezone just has greater utility making it more useful. you can use both pretty nicely on (surprisingly effective) 4drag2mag teams though!!!
 
Some numbers:
All assume 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, format: Magnezone / Magneton
Physical defensiveness: 75012 / 82038
Special defensiveness: 60912 / 63888
Special Attack: 359 / 339
Speed: 240 / 262

The drops in defensive ability are notable, but considering Magnezone gets 6.25% per turn from leftovers, it's not as clear which is better defensively. 'zone will do a lot better in longer battles, but 'ton can take more single hits, and maybe dodge a few more physical 2HKOs.
 
Also consider the move Mirror Coat. If Magneton had it, then we would see more of Magneton. The fact that Magnezone has it even though it is not as bulky as Magneton gives a good edge to Magnezone; HOWEVER, in terms of defense, Magneton is still recommended to try out.

-----

This is my first post. I feel stupid. :p
 
Tyranitarphantom said:
The extra speed that Magneton has is usually insignificant.
Click to expand...

With a Choice Scarf, Magnezone cannot outspeed Starmie and Adamant +1 Gyarados.

A Magneton with the same item can outspeed or tie with Starmie and Gyarados, respectively, and kill them.

Magnezone is totally superior for Substitute and Life Orb sets, but look no further than Magneton if you need a Choice Scarf set and a Steel-type trapper in one.

Note: Using Hidden Power Fire on Magneton causes it to tie with with Adamant Gyarados at +1 Speed.
 
Also consider the move Mirror Coat. If Magneton had it, then we would see more of Magneton. The fact that Magnezone has it even though it is not as bulky as Magneton gives a good edge to Magnezone; HOWEVER, in terms of defense, Magneton is still recommended to try out.
Click to expand...
You generally don't want to use counter moves unless you're Wobbuffet. Nothing forces the opponent to attack quite like Encore and Shadow Tag. And plus that gigantic HP stat that Blissey would be proud of. Mmm.
 
SJCrew said:
You generally don't want to use counter moves unless you're Wobbuffet. Nothing forces the opponent to attack quite like Encore and Shadow Tag. And plus that gigantic HP stat that Blissey would be proud of. Mmm.
Click to expand...

While correct, the stat Nazi in me wants to point this out: Wobb has 190 base HP while Blissey has 255 (and Chansey has 250).

Anyways, Magnezone is just so much better than Magneton. The defense argument is also a little off, saying as Magneton/zone don't enjoy physical attackers. Yes, they wall BoltBeam, but what physical attacker carries that? There's Electivire and ScarfRachi... but that's about it. And they carry moves to hit Magneton/zone anyways. I'm gonna to have to agree that the only set Magneton runs better is the Scarf set.
 
Lesser Smaug said:
With a Choice Scarf, Magnezone cannot outspeed Starmie and Adamant +1 Gyarados.

A Magneton with the same item can outspeed or tie with Starmie and Gyarados, respectively, and kill them.

Magnezone is totally superior for Substitute and Life Orb sets, but look no further than Magneton if you need a Choice Scarf set and a Steel-type trapper in one.

Note: Using Hidden Power Fire on Magneton causes it to tie with with Adamant Gyarados at +1 Speed.
Click to expand...

Well, that's just fantastic! I was about to make a team that made use of Scarf Magnezone, but as it turns out, that little extra speed has more use than I thought.

I love it when a pre-evo does something better than it's evolution
 
The main reasons why others would need to use Magneton over Magnezone are:

  • Magneton's Choice Scarf set is more substantial than Magnezone's own. Not only can Magneton quickly trap Steel-types, but it can also serve as a solid revenge killer against the likes of +1 Dragon Dance Dragonite and Gyarados. 120 base SpA and boosted Speed aren't bad things to have on offensive teams that need a general revenge / steel killer. Killing Dragonite obviously requires Hidden Power Ice, but in the end, Magnezone has the same issues with Substitute and HP Fire.
  • Challenge cup
The higher Speed does matter, should your team have trouble with the aforementioned threats (because lol who runs Jolly Gyarados / Dragonite?). I tried out Eviolite Magneton the other day, and it was okay only because it wasn't OHKOed by +1 Dragonite's Fire Punch 9.9
 
Magnezone is generally much better at trapping steels than Magneton because it has better bulk, can use Choice Scarf, and has higher SpA.

Magneton imo is a gimmick you'll only see in 4 Drag 2 Mag, where it is a necessity.
 
eric the espeon said:
Some numbers:
All assume 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, format: Magnezone / Magneton
Physical defensiveness: 75012 / 82038
Special defensiveness: 60912 / 63888
Special Attack: 359 / 339
Speed: 240 / 262

The drops in defensive ability are notable, but considering Magnezone gets 6.25% per turn from leftovers, it's not as clear which is better defensively. 'zone will do a lot better in longer battles, but 'ton can take more single hits, and maybe dodge a few more physical 2HKOs.
Click to expand...

I'll use your calcs, but try Modest Magneton vs. Timid Magnezone:
4 Hp 252 Sp.A 252 Spe: Magnezone / Magneton
Physical defensiveness: 75012 / 82038
Special defensiveness: 60912 / 63888
Special Attack: 359 / 372 (A 3.6% increase)
Speed: 240 / 239 (Insignificant, except vs. Magnezone :/)

Without power-boosting items, Magneton is stronger for the same speed bracket. Useful for killing Skarm with Volt Switch, I guess.
 
shinyskarmory said:
Magnezone is generally much better at trapping steels than Magneton because it has better bulk, can use Choice Scarf, and has higher SpA.

Magneton imo is a gimmick you'll only see in 4 Drag 2 Mag, where it is a necessity.
Click to expand...
Actually, Magneton is arguably the better user of Choice Scarf. It can actually outspeed things.
 
Chameleon said:
I'll use your calcs, but try Modest Magneton vs. Timid Magnezone:
4 Hp 252 Sp.A 252 Spe: Magnezone / Magneton
Physical defensiveness: 75012 / 82038
Special defensiveness: 60912 / 63888
Special Attack: 359 / 372 (A 3.6% increase)
Speed: 240 / 239 (Insignificant, except vs. Magnezone :/)

Without power-boosting items, Magneton is stronger for the same speed bracket. Useful for killing Skarm with Volt Switch, I guess.
Click to expand...
except said bulk increase comes from eviolite and magneton can't hold scarf/eviolite at the same time
 
Why are people saying Magneton can't hold Leftovers/Choice items.

With a lot of NFEs you kind of HAVE to use Eviolite in any metagame where there evolved form is allowed, since it's the only way they're not outclassed (if you don't use Eviolite, you should use the evolved form).

But with Magneton's higher Speed stat, you can use Choice Scarf/Specs or even Leftovers and still have reason to use it over Magnezone.

I might be wrong, but the team that got to #1 on the ladder recently used Choice Scarf Magneton.
 
eh, bs proof w/e

Anyways I think overall Magnezone is the better Pokemon speaking from a person who has used it extensively - Speed isn't really a factor a lot of the time when you're using sets that aren't Choice - in that regard Magnezone is a lot better because of it's higher Special Attack, which usually matters more when you're dealing with something whose main purpose is killing Steel-types asap. Magnezone is better if you want a more constant attacker while Magneton is a better Choice Scarfer, at least imo.
 
Essentially:

  • Don't use Magneton unless you really hate +1 base 80 Pokemon...and Steel-types, of course. I feel Magneton is overall better in the Scarf role, since Magnezone shouldn't bother weathering hard hits on it's offensive sets
  • When Salac Berry is released, that's when we can start talking.
 
I personally prefer Magnezone since it's extra bulk with Leftovers helps it to use a great SubChargeBeam set, which is perfect for getting a couple of kills from switching into Ferrothorn. Just be careful not to switch into Leech Seed.
 
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