Magmortar (Gen 4, adding SubSalac)

[.//enigma]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/magmortar

I hope to death I am doing this right. This is my first time working with HTML, so be harsh when making corrections, it's the only way I'll learn. ;D

I came up with this idea when I was using Specs Magmortar in OU. I noticed it didn't have enough speed to contend with the big OU threats, and it was too easily revenge killed. After a few days of thinking, I came up with this idea, which uses Substitute instead of oriental Magmortar sets.

[SET]
name: SubSalac
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Salac Berry
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The previous Magmortar sets either use a hit-and-run aspect of play (Scarf and Specs sets), or attempt to turn Magmortar into a wall-breaker with Cross Chop. This set attempts to sweep, courtesy of Substitute, a base 125 Special Attack, and a Speed boost after activating Salac Berry.</p>

<p>Stealth Rock is extremely common in OU play, and since Magmortar is a Fire-type, it will take 25% everytime it switches in, which will greatly reduce Magmortar's opportunities to switch in. Add that with a sub-par speed, and you have enough to place this Pokemon in the UU tier. If you decide to bring it to OU, a lot of Pokemon in the OU metagame outspeeds it, and it can be easily revenge killed. The solution to this problem is fairly simple: slap Substitute in its moveset. With a rag doll to protect it, Magmortar can choose the correct move to pummel the opponent with. But that still leaves the problem with being outsped. If you use Salac Berry as the item, Magmortar can actually benefit from Stealth Rock. With the given EVs (assuming a 31 HP IV), you hit 292 HP. After one Stealth Rock switch-in and two Substitutes, you are at 73 HP, but more importantly, you have a Substitute for protection and your Salac Berry activated.</p>

<p>The moveset is fairly simple. Use Substitute on a Pokemon that would normally switch out (Skarmory, for example), and set up a Sub both for protection and for scouting. You have two choices for your STAB moves: Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Flamethrower is the most accurate of the two, sporting a 100% accuracy, and a small burn chance. Fire Blast decreases the accuracy, but has a higher base power and a higher burn chance. Moveslots 3 and 4 are used to complement your Fire STAB in terms of type coverage. Thunderbolt gets nice super-effective hits on bulky waters not-named Swampert, and Focus Blast is one niche Heatran doesn't have. Between these three moves, only Latias in OU resists them. Psychic, Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Grass are other options to consider, but should only be used if you desire a different type coverage.</p>

<p>The EVs and nature are fairly simple. 4 HP EVs and 31 HP IVs allow for an HP stat divisble by 4, so you can activate your pinch berry in 3 Substitutes or 2 Substitutes and 1 Stealth Rock switch-in. Modest with maximum Special Attack gives you a stat of 383, which definitely packs a punch. Before the Salac Berry, you land at 265 Speed, outspeeding Max Speed Breloom and Metagross, and outspeeding Max Speed / Neutral nature Gyarados, Medicham, Heatran and Dragonite. After the pinch berry activates, you hit 397, outspeed Aerodactyl, +1 Adamant Gyarados, Weavile, Scarf Modest Heatran, and anything slower.</p>

<p>At first glance, this Magmortar looks like an inferior Heatran. However, Magmortar has three niches that Heatran lacks, which allows Magmortar to contend in OU play. The first two are its movepool. Heatran is often countered by bulky waters and Tyranitar. This Magmortar packs a moveset which does a number to bulky waters and Tyranitar through Thunderbolt and Focus Blast, respectively. Magmortar has a higher base Speed, which allows it to outspeed more threats than Heatran can, one notable one being Adamant Gyarados.</p>

<p>Although Heatran has a higher base Special Attack, Magmortar makes up for that with his superior movepool. Magmortar can counter a variety of threats that Heatran would love to counter itself. Some notable OHKO's or 2HKO's Magmortar gets are: a OHKO on 4 HP Heatran and a OHKO on 176 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar with Focus Blast; a 2HKO on 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune, a 2HKO on all Tentacruel and a OHKO on all Gyarados with Thunderbolt; a OHKO on 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross and a 2HKO on 252 HP / 252 SpD Bronzong (assuming Bronzong is without Heatproof) with Flamethrower. (All OHKO's and 2HKO's are calculated with Stealth Rock damage.)</p>

<p>Some of Magmortar's counters include Blissey, Cresselia and Latias. Standard 0 HP / 176 SpD Blissey takes a maximum of 31% from Focus Blast and 24% from Fire Blast. Latias not only resists the string of three moves, but also takes a maximum of 30% from Fire Blast, assuming 128 HP / 0 SpD, without a Calm Mind. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia takes a maximum of around 44% from Fire Blast, not even a OHKO with a critical hit. A good partner to this Magmortar is Gengar with Explosion. Gengar can come in on Ground-type attacks aimed at Magmortar. Cresselia and Latias are both hit hard with a super-effective, STAB Shadow Ball, and Gengar can lure out Blissey and Explode on it. With these three problem Pokemon out of the way, Magmortar can set itself up for a clean sweep. At 25% HP, Sandstorm damage will ruin Magmortar's sweep, more often than not. As such, it is good to pack a Pokemon that can use Sunny Day effectively. It gives a good boost to Magmortar's STAB attack, and even after it wears off, there will be no weather on the field and no residual damage for Magmortar to take.</p>

 

[Havak]

Sorry, but that set is just too messy. Having Heat Wave in the set really isn't necessary, and surely you could come up with a best set from the other four moves?

 

[SlottedPig]

Fire / Electric / Ice has universal coverage (barring Lanturn), so that's nice.

I think it should be Fire Blast / Flamethrower, T-Bolt, and HP [Ice] for that reason. Mention the other moves in the analysis?

 

[.//enigma]

I guess these moves might have already been covered in Other Options. I'll take out Heat Wave and find a combination of 3 moves with the best coverage in OU. Thanks. =D

EDIT: I edited the moveset so it looks less "sloppy", and added HP Ice, HP Grass and Psychic in I believe the 3rd paragraph. I'm still checking over the grammar, but I'm pretty sleepy, so I might not find anything. -_-''

 

[franky]

[SET]
name: SubSalac
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Thunderbolt
item: Salac Berry
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The previous Magmortar sets either use a hit-and-run aspect of play (Scarf and Specs sets), or attempt to turn Magmortar into a wall-breaker with Cross Chop. This set attempts to sweep, courtesy of Substitute, a base 125 Special Attack, and a Speed boost after activating Salac Berry.(expanded it)</p>

<p>Stealth Rock is extremely common (removed ubiquitous to make it more clear for readers) in OU play, and since Magmortar is a Fire-type, it will take 25% everytime it switches in, which will greatly restrict Magmortar's opportunities to switch in(wording was short, expanded it for more detail). Add that with a sub-par speed, and you have enough to place this Pokemon in the UU tier. If you decide to bring it to OU, a lot of Pokemon in the OU metagame outspeeds it, and it can be easily revenge killed. The solution to this problem is fairly simple: slap Substitute in its moveset. With a rag doll to protect it, Magmortar can choose the correct moves to pummel the opponent with. But that still leaves the problem with being outsped. If you use Salac Berry as the item, Magmortar can actually benefit from Stealth Rock. With the given EVs (assuming a 31 HP IV), you hit 292 HP. After one Stealth Rock switch-in and two Substitutes, you are at 73 HP, but more importantly, you have a Substitute for protection and your Salac Berry activated.</p>

<p>The moveset is fairly simple. Use Substitue on someone that would normally switch out (like Skarmory and Foretress) and scout out the opponent's next switch in(expanded, Substitue on a SubSalac was too short, mroe detail). You have two choices for your STAB moves: Flamethrower or Fire Blast. Flamethrower is the most accurate of the two, sporting a 100% accuracy, and a small burn chance. Fire Blast decreases the accuracy, but has a higher base power and a higher burn chance. Moveslots 3 and 4 are used to complement your Fire STAB in terms of type coverage. Thunderbolt gets nice a super-effective hits on bulky waters (removed cap)not-named Swampert, and Focus Blast is one niche Heatran doesn't have. Between these three moves, only Latias in OU resists them. Psychic, Hidden Power Ice and Hidden Power Grass are other options to consider, but should only be used if you need a different type coverage.</p>

<p>The EVs and nature are fairly simple. 4 HP EVs and 31 HP IVs allow for an HP stat divisble by 4, so you can activate your pinch berry in 3 Substitutes or 2 Substitutes and 1 Stealth Rock switch-in. Modest with maximum Special Attack gives you a stat of 383 which definitely packs (reworded)a punch. Before the Salac Berry, you land at 265 Speed, outspeeding Max Speed Breloom and Metagross, and outspeeding Max Speed / Neutral nature Gyarados, Medicham, Heatran and Dragonite. After the pinch berry activates, you hit 397, outspeed Aerodactyl, +1 Adamant Gyarados, Weavile, +1 Modest Heatran, and anything slower.</p>

<p>At first glance, this looks like an inferior Heatran. That is not the case, however. The moveset covers more threats than Heatran can. For example, Magmortar deals, on average, 324 damage to a Naive Heatran with Focus Blast. This is a OHKO to a 4 HP Heatran, and the OHKO is secured after Stealth Rock damage. Other notable OHKO's or 2HKO's include: a 2HKO on 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias with HP Ice (after Stealth Rock damage), a OHKO on both Salamence and Dragonite with HP Ice, a 2HKO on 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune with Thunderbolt (Stealth Rock is needed to secure), a OHKO on 176 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar with Focus Blast and a OHKO on Infernape with Psychic.</p>

<p>It is often a good idea to pair this Magmortar with a Nasty Plot Mixape with Grass Knot and Close Combat. This Magmortar is utterly walled by Blissey and bulky waters, both of which Mixape can take out, allowing for an easier sweep.(i'm iffy with this, they share similar weaknesses how will you find time to switch in MixApe?) More likely than not, at 25% of your total HP, Sandstorm will ruin your sweep, so it is always a good idea to pack a Pokemon who can use Sunny Day effectively. Even after Sunny Day wears off, there will be no weather left on the field, and you won't have to take residual damage.</p>

The update section needs some tweaking, more things need to be expanded on. MixApe is not a good partner. You might want to expand on more counters like Latias, Tentacruel, etc. and how to deal with them

 

[jrrrrrrr]

These are just minor nitpicks, but you shouldnt really compare Magmortar to Heatran, because Magmortar will always lose that comparison except for Thunderbolt. When you talk about Focus Blast, who cares if it can hit Heatrans...because Heatran has Earth Power. The real target of Focus Blast is Tyranitar (and Regirock in UU).

You then go on to talk about how this isn't an inferior Heatran because of HP Ice, which Heatran runs off of a higher base SpAtk. On top of that, HP Ice isn't even listed as an option on this moveset...

What you should really be emphasizing is its higher Speed and access to Focus Blast. Personally, I would rather use Cross Chop over Focus Blast, but I haven't used Magmortar in OU like you are suggesting here so I can't say 100%

Infernape isn't a good partner for this set, because Infernape doesn't lure Blissey out at all.
| Infernape | Move | Close Combat | 86.1 |
Blissey isn't coming into that pokemon, and it likely won't even come into a Sub Magmortar out of fear of Focus Punch.

This has potential, but the write-up needs to be changed a bit. This is a really good first try.

 

[.//enigma]

The update section needs some tweaking, more things need to be expanded on. MixApe is not a good partner. You might want to expand on more counters like Latias, Tentacruel, etc. and how to deal with them

Thanks for the grammar check, I'll add it ASAP.

These are just minor nitpicks, but you shouldnt really compare Magmortar to Heatran, because Magmortar will always lose that comparison except for Thunderbolt. When you talk about Focus Blast, who cares if it can hit Heatrans...because Heatran has Earth Power. The real target of Focus Blast is Tyranitar (and Regirock in UU).

You then go on to talk about how this isn't an inferior Heatran because of HP Ice, which Heatran runs off of a higher base SpAtk. On top of that, HP Ice isn't even listed as an option on this moveset...

What you should really be emphasizing is its higher Speed and access to Focus Blast. Personally, I would rather use Cross Chop over Focus Blast, but I haven't used Magmortar in OU like you are suggesting here so I can't say 100%

Infernape isn't a good partner for this set, because Infernape doesn't lure Blissey out at all.
| Infernape | Move | Close Combat | 86.1 |
Blissey isn't coming into that pokemon, and it likely won't even come into a Sub Magmortar out of fear of Focus Punch.

This has potential, but the write-up needs to be changed a bit. This is a really good first try.

I wasn't really thinking when I blatantly mentioned Infernape as a partner. I'll be sure to change up the analysis. ;D

It's a shame Maggy doesn't learn Brick Break.

EDIT: I'm going to blatantly assume its a 48 hour bump and not 24, so I'm not going to post my update results in a new post.

I took out the last 2 paragraphs and added 3 in its place, to pick up some more information. I also added the grammar edits. I wasn't here yesterday, or today morning for that matter, so this was the earliest I could get the update done.

 

[.//enigma]

It has been 48 hours, so I guess I can bump this? I can always delete this post if I mis-interpreted the rules.

I've been playtesting this on WiFi (would've been Shoddy, damn virus), and Latias completley destroys this thing. It resists all three moves, has enough SpD to not be 2HKO'd by anything (even with Life Orb damage), and completley owns me with Calm Mind + Surf. Tell me if I should add Blissey as a team option for Maggy, as it can Toxic threats like Latias and Cresselia while also soaking up their hits.

 

[Colonel M]

I think this is UU material. Moving this.

enigma, if you don't have much experience with UU, feel free to PM someone who's been experienced with UU play. I might pick it up myself if necessary.

EDIT: And if you do attempt to write this for UU play, shorten it up please.