Magneton (OU Analysis) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

[Arcticblast]

With Raikoulover and Sir's input, I have decided to remove the SubCharge set. Sir's post was the most effective reasoning seeing as he's the only one here who's playtested it. I'll talk about it in OO (later today) but IMO it isn't worth a full set in the analysis just to beat Jirachi.

EDIT at below: You mean as a teammate right?

 

[danilo]

I would add Hydreigon as a counter since it can bait steels to come in, and then U-Turn into Magneton

 

[Lesser Smaug]

I agree with Sir. In fact, I feel that U-turn Dragon-types can be effective partners to Magneton.

When I used Choice Scarf Flygon in OU (sorry 'bout that), I would often lure in Ferrothorn attempting to absorb an Outrage or Earthquake, only to get hit by U-turn and land in Magnetonzone's trap. Set up a Substitute, and 2HKO with Hidden Power Fire, while standard Ferrothorn cannot hope to break Magnetonzone's Substitutes.

So yes, U-turn-wielding Dragon-types can be effective in luring Steel-types wanting to absorb an Outrage or Draco Meteor.

 

[Jimera0]

Having read a couple warstories using, Scarf Magneton, I have to say I'm very intriuged as to it's potential. I think that an analysis for it is quite reasonable. Unlike Scarf Magnezone, it can actually outspeed things worth outspeeding. 10 base speed might not seem like much but with a scarf it boosts you like 4 speed tiers. It allows you to combine a trapper and revenge killer into one, something few other Pokemon can do (Dugtrio is the only one that comes to mind in normal OU). And then there's the ever-present bonus of people underestimating NFE Pokemon... and paying for it.

I agree that the other sets are probably outclassed by Magnezone though, seeing as Magneton lacks recovery outside of Leftovers, meaning setting up isn't really an option. I think it's niche in OU is as a Scarfer, and that's that.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Being able to trap Steel-types AND revenge kill Dragonite and other Pokemon within its base range is a big one (who in the world runs Jolly Dragonite?). For these reasons, at least its Scarf set should go up.

I actually did test out SubCharge Magneton today, and I agree that bulk would be better for it rather than investing heavily in Special Attack as Magnezone does.

 

[Arcticblast]

Log dump

Logs (full or cherrypicked) will go here as I get them.

Sturdy isn't fun

Turn 4
Salamence used Brick Break!
[DEBUG] LO boost.
The foe's Skarmory lost 32% of its health!
Salamence is hurt by its life orb!
The foe's Skarmory used Brave Bird!
Salamence lost 42% of its health!
The foe's Skarmory is hit with recoil!
The sandstorm rages!
Salamence is buffeted by the sandstorm!
[DEBUG] natural immunity.
[DEBUG] weather immunity.
The foe's Skarmory restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Turn 5
Arcticblast called Salamence back!
Arcticblast sent out Magneton!
Pointed stones dug into Magneton!
The foe's Skarmory used Roost!
The foe's Skarmory regained health!
The sandstorm rages!
[DEBUG] natural immunity.
[DEBUG] weather immunity.
[DEBUG] natural immunity.
[DEBUG] weather immunity.

Turn 6
Magneton used Thunderbolt!
The foe's Skarmory held on thanks to Sturdy!
It's super-effective! The foe's Skarmory lost 100% of its health!
The foe's Skarmory used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of Arcticblast's team!
The sandstorm rages!
[DEBUG] natural immunity.
[DEBUG] weather immunity.
[DEBUG] natural immunity.
[DEBUG] weather immunity.
The foe's Skarmory restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Turn 7
Magneton used Thunderbolt!
It's super-effective! The foe's Skarmory lost 7% of its health!
The foe's Skarmory fainted!
The sandstorm rages!
[DEBUG] natural immunity.
[DEBUG] weather immunity.
Metric sent out Virizion!

 

[Woodchuck]

Logs of Magneton killing Skarmory doesn't help, lol. Of course it kills Skarm.

 

[Arcticblast]

It's a start ;_;

 

[PK Gaming]

Ok I tested this set with one of my teams that ran Scarf Zone. On one hand, I could visibly notice a significant drop in power. On the other hand, the ability to outspeed base 115's (its really sad that Magnezone misses out on this by a point) like Starmie, Azelf, Pokemon with base 120+ speed AND revenge kill +1 Adamant Dnite was pretty handy. Magneton still takes out Steel types, so in comparison to Magnezone its really power vs speed here so your mileage may vary.

QC APPROVED (1/3)

 

[Sayonara]

I suggest HP Ice over HP Fire, to hit Gliscor and Dragonite.

 

[Arcticblast]

They're both there. Based on PK Gaming's input, I'll put Ice as the primary option, but Fire is staying as the secondary option.

 

[Arcticblast]

Could I possibly get a few more QC members to weigh in on this? I'd rather have it outright rejected than sitting in QC for another month.

 

[Sayonara]

I believe Magnezone outclasses Magneton as a steel-trapper, as it can set up with Charge Beam on a Steel that can't hurt it much, and escape with a Sub, using the below set.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 36 HP | 252 SAtk | 212 Spe
Timid Nature (-Atk, +Spe)
~ Charge Beam
~ Substitute
~ Thunderbolt
~ Hidden Power [Ice]

Scarf Magneton will have to switch out once it KOs the Steel, giving the opponent the advantage. It does have its merit, though, but there is a reason why it is located in the RU tier.

 

[Arcticblast]

This analysis is based on Magneton's merits over Magnezone, not what Magnezone does better. I'm not denying that SubCharge Magnezone is a huge threat, but that isn't what this thread is about.

Stay on topic or leave.

 

[Arcticblast]

Bump.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

I was going to QC it anyways for the fact that it's a fairly universal Choice Scarf user (kills steels, kills Dragonite, uses Volt Turn well). Somebody else can try to put SubCharge through QC later.

Quality Control [2/3]

Be sure to delineate why one should use Magneton in the writeup.

 

[Pocket]

I mean, does the SubCharge set really need an Eviolite? Why not give it Leftovers? Magneton still has the speed to ensure that Jolly Scizor wouldn't surprise KO, and it can still hit Adamant Dragonite, Adamant Gyarados, Adamant Mamoswine, Gliscor, and bulky Rotom-W first, so it's not completely outclassed by SubCharge Magnezone.

I should probably ask ShakeItUp for his input on Magneton.

Mention in the Scarf set description that Magneton also outruns +1 Adamant Gyarados and Timid Starmie, both mons that Scarf Magnezone cannot outpace.

Under Other Options, you could also mention Hidden Power Grass for Gastrodon / Quagsire, Toxic for Non-Poison Heal Ground-types, Thunder Wave for paralysis, and Metal Sound to beat special walls like Blissey / Chansey, especially with rain-supported Thunder.

You should mention the usual Electric counters in the [Counters] section: Grass-types (Celebi, Virizion), Latias, Chansey / Blissey, Tyranitar. Dugtrio and Magnezone can trap and kill.

 

[-Tsunami-]

I should probably ask ShakeItUp for his input on Magneton.

Ask and I shall deliver ;)
SubCharge should definitely be in the analysis...if it doesn't get approved now, I'll take it through QC later. Personally, I've never used a Choice Scarf set, but I suppose it can be effective. Eviolite helps Magneton since it gives it more bulk and gives it another thing to set it apart from Magnezone. The main draw of Magneton, obviously, is its higher Speed, which lets it outrun a large amount of threats. SubCharge Magnezone can't keep its sub intact against threats such as Rotom-W and Dragonite, but Magneton can. Regardless, if it doesn't get added, I'll take it through QC myself as I said earlier.

 

[Pocket]

ShakeItUp explains more in detail through a PM to me:

I posted in the thread already but I'll give my thoughts on SubCharge Magneton since I didnt really state them in the thread. Basically, you bring in Magneton on a Steel-type (obviously, CB Scizor locked into BP is the best thing, and it's not really hard to make that happen...just run like Terrakion as a teammate). You set up with Charge Beam etc. Hazard support is always helpful as well, obviously. I never thought of using Leftovers, though it might be worthwhile. The bulk provided by Eviolite made me think it would be superior, however. Anyway, the main draw that this set has over Magnezone is SPEED. Magnezone outruns a plethora of threats such as Rotom-W and Dragonite, allowing it to be much more of a threat. People don't expect it to outrun these Pokemon anyway, which gives it a bit of a surprise factor in a way. Regardless, its higher Speed makes it much more of a threat than Magnezone, and with Flash Cannon for coverage it can destroy Pokemon such as Gliscor. If the opponent has a Ferrothorn, simply weaken it a bit prior for Magneton...or Magneton can severely weaken it itself. Personally, I find it much better than SubCharge Zone.

Also here's the set description on his RMT

Magneton is the NU of my team and is arguably the most important Pokemon in my arsenal. If I had an option, I would use Magneton over its evolution, Magnezone; it's just that amazing. Unlike Magnezone which has a pitiful 60 base Speed, Magneton has a decent 70 base Speed; this difference allows it to outspeed threats that Magnezone would never dream of outspeeding in Tank Rotom-W, DD Dragonite, and Gliscor among others. Magnezone's higher Special Attack stat becomes negligible after a few Charge Beam boosts; Magneton's Defense and Special Defense already become much higher due to Eviolite, easily holding more weight than Magnezone's access to Leftovers and higher HP. The defensive capabilities allow Magneton to survive many hits such as +1 Fire Punch from Dragonite and +2 Hydro Pump from non-Life Orb Cloyster. This Magneton can still easily defeat Ferrothorn, or weaken it to a point where the rest of my team can easily take it out. Magneton also pairs well with Scizor, since it can lure in Skarmory so that Magneton can obliterate it with Thunderbolt. Substitute allows me to set up easily on Pokemon such as CB Scizor and Ferrothorn, and works extremely well in tandem with Charge Beam. Flash Cannon rounds out the set by providing me with a secondary STAB move that can be used to decimate Pokemon that resist / are immune to Thunderbolt such as Gliscor.

I think it's worth putting up the SubChargeBeam set again - it has clearly seen success by a skilled ladderer. Although Eviolite may possibly be counter-intuitive to the particular strategy, it does provide more uses to Magneton other than trap-killing Steels, such as tanking hard hits and retaliate. Possibly mention Leftovers and HP Fire in the AC to recover health from Substitute / more easily handle Ferrothorn.

 

[Remorph]

I have a few concerns about this set. I would drop Zap Cannon in favor of another move, such as Electro Ball for Ferrothorn to worry about, so you can use HP Ice. Also, This set can't resist anything faster with the choice scarf, like a special Salamence with flamethrower (Though this isn't too common), ANYTHING with earthquake or Earthpower, and Probopass it can't dent too well.

This set is VERY unexpected, and I like it a lot. I think this set comes down to whether you use this set for it's intended purpose (screwing up steel types with HP Fire) or Dragons, and Unsuspecting Gliscors, and the like with HP Ice. I would go with the latter, because you don't gain too much by trapping steels.

 

[-Tsunami-]

I have a few concerns about this set. I would drop Zap Cannon in favor of another move, such as Electro Ball for Ferrothorn to worry about, so you can use HP Ice. Also, This set can't resist anything faster with the choice scarf, like a special Salamence with flamethrower (Though this isn't too common), ANYTHING with earthquake or Earthpower, and Probopass it can't dent too well.

This set is VERY unexpected, and I like it a lot. I think this set comes down to whether you use this set for it's intended purpose (screwing up steel types with HP Fire) or Dragons, and Unsuspecting Gliscors, and the like with HP Ice. I would go with the latter, because you don't gain too much by trapping steels.

when in the world did Zap Cannon get involved...?

 

[Arcticblast]

I've added the SubCharge set to the analysis. I went with maxSpA/maxSpe Timid as the main spread with an AC mention of moving EVs to HP. I don't know too much about it (having never fully tested it), so if you want to expand on my skeleton feel free to do so and I'll credit you.

Remorph, would you care to explain? I'm not following you here.

EDIT: Pocket, I made your changes and added a Dream World section as well. I stuck Signal Beam in OO for completion's sake but advised against it.

 

[Pocket]

You forgot to make these revisions:

Mention in the Scarf set description that Magneton also outruns +1 Adamant Gyarados and Timid Starmie, both mons that Scarf Magnezone cannot outpace.

Under Other Options, you could also mention Hidden Power Grass for Gastrodon / Quagsire, Toxic for Non-Poison Heal Ground-types, Thunder Wave for paralysis, and Metal Sound to beat special walls like Blissey / Chansey, especially with rain-supported Thunder.

You should mention the usual Electric counters in the [Counters] section: Grass-types (Celebi, Virizion), Latias, Chansey / Blissey, Tyranitar. Dugtrio and Magnezone can trap and kill.

As for the SubCharge set:
1) Emphasize that this set not only executes the Sub Charge Beam strategy, but it also possesses bulk that the team could fall back on, thanks to Eviolite.
2) Emphasize its Speed, by noting how it outruns threats such as Gliscor, bulky Rotom-W, Jirachi, neutral-Speed Gyarados, Dragonite, Mamoswine, and SpecsToed.
3) Remove Signal Beam from AC
4) I'd slash HP Ice with Flash Cannon, since this Magneton can take a hit from Dragonite and KO with HP Ice once MutliScale is broken
5)

-Heatran poses a major threat to this set, as many common Heatran sets can outrun even a max Speed Timid Magnezone

I assume you meant max Speed Magneton?
6) Under Teammates and Counters, you could mention that Dugtrio can trap-and-kill. Gastrodon walls Magneton without HP Grass. Latias can set up on it. Celebi with Earth Power or Virizion is also a solid check. Chansey and Blissey can take it out with SToss.

 

[-Tsunami-]

@Pocket
I would slash HP Fire with Flash Cannon, not HP Ice. Multiscale is usually broken by Stealth Rock, and after a couple of Charge Beam boosts, Magneton can rock D-Nite's world with Thunderbolt anyway. HP Fire is attractive to people who greatly need Ferrothorn gone, and also lets Magneton decimate Scizor that is choice-locked into Superpower. Magenton can 2HKO D-Nite with Thunderbolt after SR and no boosts anyway. Just my 2 cents on the issue :p

 

[Pocket]

Okay, slash HP Fire instead of HP Ice then, Arcticblast :d

[Other Options]
-In Trick Room, could possibly run a Specs set, but TR is better left to Magnezone
-Magneton can run HP Grass anywhere Hidden Power is listed to hit Gastrodon, as it otherwise has no way around it
-Magneton has a sizeable Special movepool with no good options not already listed
-As a coverage move, Signal Beam is an interesting choice, allowing Magneton to hit every Steel-type legal in OU for at least neutral damage aside from Magnezone and the rare Steelix, but this is generally a bad option.
-Magneton can use Explosion on the Choice Scarf set to go out with a bang, but Magneton's terrible Attack and the Explosion nerf make this a shaky option at best

1) No need to mention Trick Room, since Magneton already outruns a small portion of the metagame / not terribly slow
2) Remove the part in red
3) Your Signal Beam description is absurd... Signal Beam is not used to hit Steel-types, since Tbolt already hits most of the Steel-types neutrally (and a resisted STAB Thunderbolt does similar damage as a neutral Signal Beam). Signal Beam is useful for hitting Latios, Latias, and most importantly CELEBI for super effective damage.
4) Remove the mention of Explosion, since a nerfed Explosion from Magneton is weaker than its STAB Thunderbolt

[Dream World]
-Magneton gets Analyze from the Dream World
-While it looks cool on paper, Magnet Pull is always superior
-Even the slower Magnezone can't pull off Analyze

1) Remove the part in red, since an Analyze set for Magnezone actually holds some promise :d