"...people are defeating themselves in the teambuilder..." is such a good quote because it completely sums up my opinions on this suspect test. I think there are some problems with NU that need hammering out, but most of it can be fixed by putting away all the theorymon and playing the game more. I realize a lot of people in this thread have already gotten reqs and played a lot of games to get there, but there's too much emphasis on how Magneton only has three counters. But that's still more counters than Sawk, Magmortar, Samurott, Zangoose, etc. all have. There aren't even that many checks to any of these Pokemon. Sometimes you have to pivot around them, and sometimes you have to play aggressive to beat them. I don't really see how Magneton is that much different outside of having Volt Switch, which can still really easily be handled. If you want to run slow, passive, hazard-stacking balanced teams, then yes, you're going to need Stunfisk or Lanturn on all of your teams. But if you're more willing to try different playstyles (gasp!), then you aren't quite so "cornered" into using the same shit on every team. In fact, Magneton punishing these builds would be a good thing if people were more willing to expand their teambuilding to account for it.
I've been using a very momentum-based balanced team on the suspect ladder and crushing with it. Yes, it has a Lanturn, which beats Magneton really well. But Lanturn also provides my team a dedicated Fire resist, a Fletchinder check, and a slow pivot to get my offensive Pokemon in for free. Even if I let my Lanturn take a bunch of damage early on, I still have three offensive checks that can either kill or severely dent Magneton, all of which would be great without Magneton in the meta. Before this team, I was using an offensive team that literally has zero Pokemon that could switch into Magneton. My best switch-ins got OHKO'd by the proper STAB choice, and I had nothing to stop a Volt Switch. But I wasn't using slow balance, so I didn't have to worry about Magneton.
Before I actually played a lot more of the metagame with Magneton under scrutiny, I was more on the pro-ban side, but the more I played the metagame, the less I felt Magneton was really as big of an issue as it sounded. There's definitely some problems with NU, but I'm not convinced that Magneton is what's making the metagame the way it is.
I completely agree with hollywood on the parts that Magneton, in practice at least, is much more manageable then on paper. Sure it only has 3 counters, but it has to out speed you in the first place to do damage, which is a problem since Magnets ISNT fast.
Like holly, I have also tried some new play styles, where I don't focus on switch ins yet pack my teams full of threats, setup sweepers and cleaners (sounds like Hyper Offense, doesn't it?), that just don't give Magneton any safe switch ins. Every Mon had the potential to either kill it or do massive damage to it. I used mons like EQ Kanga, Magmortar, Sawk, that, in practice, despite having No Switch whatsoever for a specs flash cannon, magneton wasn't a problem.
However, what I don't disagree with is the comparison to Sawk, Magmortar, Samurott and Zangoose with Magneton. About the only relationship you could pick out between those 4 and Magnets is that they have few counters. The difference is with Magneton compared to those mons, it actually can perform a defensive utility for a team, e.g. run as a teams flying resist, so it will certainly get free chances to come in. Which leads me onto the next difference.
The oppurtuinity cost of Magneton mispredicting is at a lower probability than Let's say, Sawk mispredicting. In order for Sawk to achieve similar outright power to magneton it, also has to run a boosting item. If Sawk mispredicts a Magius switch, and goes for CC, it loses a chunk of momentum. Magneton isn't pressured to go for volt switch constantly, since its other stab, flash cannon, covers it it pretty much perfectly, bar those 4 magical counters. So, if your not sure that your opponent is going out to something else, you can play it safe and always goes for flash cannon, which has great neutral coverage across the tier and no Immunity's which imo is a big thing.
Comparing Magneton to other wall-breakers doesn't make sense, since, even if Magnetons roll in a team partially is to wall-break, the other is to gain momentum for your team.
Another reason pro-ban is that its "counters" aren't even that. Torterra Is 2HKO'd by analytic flash cannon, lanturn 3hkoed by specs HP grass, same with stunfisk and Evire gets OHKO'd by HP ground bar balloon varients (lol).
After all of this suspect test, my opinion on Magnets hasn't changed. Its still broken due to how it centralizes the tier, however, my opinion has changed . it wasn't as broken as I made it out to be when it first dropped.
