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Pokémon Mamoswine
- Thread starter Epikhairz
- Start date
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You need to break Multiscale first. Even with full Atk investment, the OHKO isn't guarenteed and its possible that Dragonite might have HP or Def investment
Is everyone and their grandmother always using the sash lead set? That's all I've seen while climbing up the ladder.
Why are both Knock Off and Freeze Dry on the same set?
Isn't Freeze Dry 6th Gen Egg Move, and Knock Off a BW2 Move Tutor Attack?
- I got a little bit too happy when I saw them on the same set, but realized that's not possible ATM.
Isn't Freeze Dry 6th Gen Egg Move, and Knock Off a BW2 Move Tutor Attack?
- I got a little bit too happy when I saw them on the same set, but realized that's not possible ATM.
I keep seeing max speed all the time and run adamant max speed myself. Max HP is good if you want to have a better switch into Garchomp, Mega Tyranitar and Landorus-T. However, the cons are: max HP is always 2hkoed by Adamant Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird, Choice Scarf Adamant Tyranitar Stone Edge, Choice Scarf Jolly Garchomp Outrage, whereas Ice Shard has only 43.8% chance to ohko said Garchomp after rocks with Ice shard. Speed helps against threats I mentioned above - Breloom, Defensive Gliscor, Dragonite, Offensive Tyranitar,
Something annoying that I see is that there is no utility thread.
Mamoswine can run Stealth Rock + Earthquake + Toxic + Knock Off with an EV investment of 252 HP, 252 SpDef, and 4 Atk. It's gimmicky, but can work.
Mamoswine can run Stealth Rock + Earthquake + Toxic + Knock Off with an EV investment of 252 HP, 252 SpDef, and 4 Atk. It's gimmicky, but can work.
This set is done better by Donphan. You should always run an ice attack on Mamoswine.
You can't. Freeze Dry is a 6th gen egg move, and Knock Off is a 5th gen tutor moves, so they're not available on the same set.
I use assault vest Mamoswine, higher up on the ladder he serves as an invaluble Thundurus check.
My personal set:
Manny (Mamoswine) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 220 HP / 16 Atk / 92 Def / 176 SDef / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
Can survive a hydro pump from Greninja at full health. Knock off is an excellent move here especially if used as an anti-lead against taunters like Deoxys. Excellent, excellent Thundurus check.
My personal set:
Manny (Mamoswine) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 220 HP / 16 Atk / 92 Def / 176 SDef / 4 Spd
Impish Nature
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
Can survive a hydro pump from Greninja at full health. Knock off is an excellent move here especially if used as an anti-lead against taunters like Deoxys. Excellent, excellent Thundurus check.
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So After the rise of scarf drill has anyone tried scarf Mamoswine with Adamant Icicle Crash/EQ/ Stone Edge/Knock-Off or Freeze Dry (possibly Ice shard but what is ice shard beating that Scarfed Icicle Crash Isn't? Superpower maybe?) as it has a good matchup against many offensive mons in the meta game right now such as The Zards and Thundurus while still hitting hard
I've been using the physical attacker set from the analysis thread with Jolly and 252 atk. Only, instead of freeze dry, I have been running stealth rock.
I use it as a physical attacker first and foremost, but where an obvious switch is incoming, that's when I stealth rock
Stealth rocking mid-game is surprisingly effective. Often, the spinner or defogger may have been killed, and the likes of Talonflame or Charizard might be below 50%, meaning a switch is an insta-kill.
Meanwhile, icicle crash, earthquake and ice shard do an immense amount of damage. They are supereffective on a lot of top threats and so I run expert belt to avoid recoil damage but allow the all-important change to ice shard for a finishing blow.
This Mamoswine is arguably my MVP -- he certainly puts in a hell of a lot of work, regardless of the nature of the match. He's revenger, wall-breaker, rock setter and even occasional end-game sweeper/cleaner, all in one. And without recoil damage and with thick fat, he is also surprisingly bulky.
I use it as a physical attacker first and foremost, but where an obvious switch is incoming, that's when I stealth rock
Stealth rocking mid-game is surprisingly effective. Often, the spinner or defogger may have been killed, and the likes of Talonflame or Charizard might be below 50%, meaning a switch is an insta-kill.
Meanwhile, icicle crash, earthquake and ice shard do an immense amount of damage. They are supereffective on a lot of top threats and so I run expert belt to avoid recoil damage but allow the all-important change to ice shard for a finishing blow.
This Mamoswine is arguably my MVP -- he certainly puts in a hell of a lot of work, regardless of the nature of the match. He's revenger, wall-breaker, rock setter and even occasional end-game sweeper/cleaner, all in one. And without recoil damage and with thick fat, he is also surprisingly bulky.
Could there be any benefit of using a Mamoswine with Avalanche? Most of the time it will outdamage Icicle Crash.
It can make several OHKOs and 2HKOs that Icicle Crash couldn't (as long as Mamoswine gets hit by a move). It can OHKO Charizard Y (although Icicle Crash + Ice Shard does this as well), OHKO Talonflame (although Icicle Crash + Recoil damage does this), OHKO Charizard X in conjunction with Ice Shard (although Earthquake does this as well, and it's technically a 2HKO), 2HKO Quagsire, has a chance of 2HKOing Skarmory, reliably 2HKO Mega Venusaur (although Earthquake does this as well), 2HKO Bisharp (although Earthquake OHKOs it, I'm just saying that it can 2HKO Bisharp as well), 3HKOs Gyarados, OHKOs Excadrill (if it's holding an Air Balloon, Earthquake can't do this), has a chance of 2HKOing Ferrothorn, can OHKO physically defensive Hippowdon, has a chance of OHKOing Terrakion, has a chance of OHKOing Mandibuzz, 2HKOs Chansey, and guaranteed 2HKOs Tyranitar (although Earthquake can OHKO).
Most of these calcs aren't quite as relevant as they would be because the opponent has to actually attack Mamoswine for it to work (it especially loses relevance with Chansey, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn), and it can't take some of these Pokemon's attacks without significant defensive investment or Assault Vest, but the sheer power seems too good to completely ignore. I was using 252+ with Life Orb for all of those, so it might be hard to find a spread that would work for that, but whatever. It still seems cool. Also using this in conjunction with a Taunt user sounds awesome.
It can make several OHKOs and 2HKOs that Icicle Crash couldn't (as long as Mamoswine gets hit by a move). It can OHKO Charizard Y (although Icicle Crash + Ice Shard does this as well), OHKO Talonflame (although Icicle Crash + Recoil damage does this), OHKO Charizard X in conjunction with Ice Shard (although Earthquake does this as well, and it's technically a 2HKO), 2HKO Quagsire, has a chance of 2HKOing Skarmory, reliably 2HKO Mega Venusaur (although Earthquake does this as well), 2HKO Bisharp (although Earthquake OHKOs it, I'm just saying that it can 2HKO Bisharp as well), 3HKOs Gyarados, OHKOs Excadrill (if it's holding an Air Balloon, Earthquake can't do this), has a chance of 2HKOing Ferrothorn, can OHKO physically defensive Hippowdon, has a chance of OHKOing Terrakion, has a chance of OHKOing Mandibuzz, 2HKOs Chansey, and guaranteed 2HKOs Tyranitar (although Earthquake can OHKO).
Most of these calcs aren't quite as relevant as they would be because the opponent has to actually attack Mamoswine for it to work (it especially loses relevance with Chansey, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn), and it can't take some of these Pokemon's attacks without significant defensive investment or Assault Vest, but the sheer power seems too good to completely ignore. I was using 252+ with Life Orb for all of those, so it might be hard to find a spread that would work for that, but whatever. It still seems cool. Also using this in conjunction with a Taunt user sounds awesome.
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As you said farther on about how crash and shard can get the same kills without relying on getting hit. Avalanche isn't a good move to rely on unless you can be completely sure that you'll live the hit.
Not all of the kills. Still Avalanche is gimmicky at best. It just seems interesting that it can kill so many Pokemon that you wouldn't expect it to. Also, if they existed, Mamoswine sets with Avalanche would probably have defensive investment. If Mamoswine had Taunt and slightly better bulk I think an Avalanche set would probably work, but as of now I guess not.
The way I use Mamoswine, I'm trying to avoid taking hits at all. It can be fast enough to outspeed and take down in one hit a lot of what might otherwise threaten it (especially with a bit of prior damage) and ice shard cleans up heavily damage opponents. If something outspeeds, it often doesn't threaten a Jolly max speed Mamoswine anyway, and if it does, it's time to switch out.
Mamoswine has proved itself time after time as the MVP of my team. It is super useful in killing pesky genies and dragons that seriously, even puts the fairies to shame as its ice shard remains one of the most powerful priority-move in killing dragons.
And for that, I would probably only recommend using adamant mamoswine. Jolly mamoswine isn't worth the power drop; for instance, jolly mamoswine couldn't KO a thundurus even after SR (though perhaps I was just unlucky - low damage roll -.-) but an adamant mamoswine has no such problem at all. Garchomp gets crushed like a sheet of paper by ice shard as well.
Seriously, mamo is a beast.
And for that, I would probably only recommend using adamant mamoswine. Jolly mamoswine isn't worth the power drop; for instance, jolly mamoswine couldn't KO a thundurus even after SR (though perhaps I was just unlucky - low damage roll -.-) but an adamant mamoswine has no such problem at all. Garchomp gets crushed like a sheet of paper by ice shard as well.
Seriously, mamo is a beast.
I noticed a scarfed mamoswine mentioned just now it sounds pretty good on paper as I am quite sure scarfed icicle crash does more than life orb adamant ice shard.
I'm not quite sure if you'd use it the same way though. Ice Shard's appeal is giving STAB priority to something powerful like Mamoswine. It's not quite the same revenge killing/checking potential, since it can't outrun DD users like Dragonite (if it's managed more than one boost, or had a WP triggered) and many other scarfers (Garchomp).
Not unusable, or even unviable, but that powerful STAB Ice Shard is probably one of Mamoswine's greatest strengths, and there are likely other options if you choose not to play it.
Yeah I figure Ill just post this, it is basically in the OP but I just made the evs more efficient
Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 176 Spd / 80 HP
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
This set guarentees rocks up(barring magic bounce), because oblivious blocks taunt now in 6th gen....some people still dont know that ,so they may taunt you and you get a free turn. The evs and nature are to outspeed jolly max speed breloom and you can kill him through his sash with icicle spear which will almost definitely surprise them ( although you need to hit 3 times). Especially with the increase the sashloom has gotten in usage. The rest go into hp which just give you a little more bulk to handle hits better. Like I said its basically just a slightly more eficient version of the set in the OP.
Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk / 176 Spd / 80 HP
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
This set guarentees rocks up(barring magic bounce), because oblivious blocks taunt now in 6th gen....some people still dont know that ,so they may taunt you and you get a free turn. The evs and nature are to outspeed jolly max speed breloom and you can kill him through his sash with icicle spear which will almost definitely surprise them ( although you need to hit 3 times). Especially with the increase the sashloom has gotten in usage. The rest go into hp which just give you a little more bulk to handle hits better. Like I said its basically just a slightly more eficient version of the set in the OP.
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