Manaphy's not all it was cracked up to be. suspect RMT

Lightsabre

Hey everybody. I'm actualy going for voting rights on Manaphy's suspect test so I need to keep my average up. my currect average is 1499 so I need to bring it up. I decided to make a new team and ask for a bit of help
TEAM AT A GLANCE
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so here's the team BOLD=Changed





Heatran and Shuca Berry
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Timid
252SPATK/252SPEED/6HP

Fire Blast- Main STAB and a powerfull attack. I can usualy fire blast the opposing lead since I normally see Bronzong or metagross

Stealth Rock- do I really need to explain this??? esential to all offensive teams

Earth Power- this is standard. it has a chance of OKOHing the choice scarf infernape that might show up every once in a while, and if they switch in on stealth rock then it's a guaranteed OKOH ^^

Hidden Power Grass- basically only for swampert leads and maybe an overconfident grass type that thinks they can take a resisted move and destroy me. of course, that's assuming I can predict them switching in


Overall description-Heatran is a fairly decent lead, and not many leads are totaly prepared to take on him. I'm just waiting for an Azelf to trick me a scarf ^^ he works suprisingly well for all the rain around here

shucka berry becuase people are going back to EQ users


Metagross and life orb
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Adamant
252ATK/228SPEED/28HP

Agility: the main point of agilitygross is to fire off one or two of these and sweep

Meteor Mash: hmmm, what to use? oh yeah, maybe that power 150 STAB attack that can raise your attack stat as well. no metagross is complete without it

earthquake: This move has great coverage. can knock out sever threats that it only hits for neuteral damage as well

Thunder Punch: Manaphy is definately left for late game sweeping these days. I don't want one trying to ruin my parade so I'll hit him for a hard super effective hit before he has a chance to blink :D

Overall Description: metagross is one of my favorite pokes, outside of his awesome power. I mean, who wouldn't want to be friends with a super computer?
ReyScarface said:
Like in the Latios test, Agiligross is an awesome pokemon. I wouldnt think it twice, use Agiligross. The main thing here is for what? If you change Ludicolo, you only have 1 Rain Dancer, which can be a problem. Though, Ludicolo is doing almost the same as manaphy, and also Ludicolo seems the less-good pokemon on this team, but its up to you.

If you want to change it, i recommend you run this:

Metagross @ Life Orb
Agility, MM, EQ, Thunderpunch
Adamant, 252 Attack, 228 Speed, 28 HP

228 Speed allows you outspeed Scarftran, +1 Jolly Gyarados, +1 Adamant Salamence and +1 Jolly Kingdra. It helps you outspeeding Scarf Roserade by 1 point (Ive seen some of them lately, better take precaution).

I think thats everything i can tell you for now, anyways GL in suspect =)
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Gyarados and Leftovers
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Jolly
252SPEED/22HP/236ATK

Waterfall- basic STAB and a powerfull attack. not much else to say

Earthquake- Some of the best coverage in the game, and SE on many of the pokes in suspect ladder.

Dragon Dance- now here's a little something that only every gyarados has :P the point of jolly is so that after one of these I'll outspeed Jolteon.

Stone Edge- This is so other Gyaradoses can't come in and destroy me. also helps with Zapdos and Salamence.

Overall Description- Gyarados is a very nice pokemon that can take on several of the recent threats. Manaphy can't do zilch without HP[electric](which hasn't been used yet ^^). Is he really good for this team though?

Scizor and Choice Band
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Adamant
252ATK/230HP/30SPEED(need help here)

Bullet Punch - scizor's slice of pie. This thing brought scizor from the bottom of OU to the #1 spot on the OU ladder for two months running, and for a very good reason

U-Turn - This is the move to use early game. you dish out masive amounts of damage and then be in a high point for switching to the appropriate counter.

SuperPower - TTar, say good bye. I need to change those EVs to outrun the traditional CB TTar, but when I do this'll be my number one counter to him. CB and superpower go hand in hand to make a lot of things hurt.

Quick attack - this is one move I'm not sure about. alot of times water types will switch in, exspecting bullet punch, and this'll hit them hard. But I have missed Pursuit alot when people switch out in fear. should I switch it?

Overall description. Scizor is extremely good with a choice band. He can maul things unprepaired, and those prepared can be smacked with U-Turn.


Zapdos and Leftovers
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Timid
252SPATK/252SPEED/6DEF

Heat Wave- this'll take care of any steels that try to come in and set up. also helps against Celebi

Thunderbolt- Main STAB

Roost- Basic healing so I can switch into SR and get that HP back

HP[grass/ice]- I'm in a quandry here. I probably want to be able to hit Flygon with ice, but HP[grass] can sap swampert fast and easy. which should I use?


Overall Description. Zapdos rules on the Suspect ledder and for good reason. not to much I could think of changing here.



Manaphy and Leftovers
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Bold
252HP/252SPEED/6SPATK

Calm Mind-now I'm using this to boost my stats, so I can test out something else.

Rain Dance-the whole purpose of this set is to abuse rain rest, so this is nessicary. of course, so is...

Rest-this. Rest allows for instant healing and with the rain, you don't even have to wait 2 turns to use it

Surf- do I honestly need to explain why Manaphy has surf??????


Overall description-
reachzero said:
1. Use the Suspect! This point cannot be overstated. Without actually using the Suspect, you will never fully understand what it is and is not capable of doing. You don't need to use the Suspect in 100% of your battles, and it is a good idea to see whether you can win without it. But if you never use it, you don't know it well enough to form a good opinion of it.
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so I use the suspect. I don't think it's UBER from what I've seen, but that will be decided later. I'm now running the rainrest CMer so it works much like Crocune in that you have only one move, you have rest as your recovery move, you're totaly walled by vappy, and you're hard to take out. differences are only two major ones. 1 SPEED you are much faster then suicune(not really much, but htose points can make a difference) and 2 HYDRATION suicune has to sit there and hope that the correct move is chosen by sleep talk. Manaphy feels the rain on its little head and wakes up immediately, so that's a big bonus

so that's my team. If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to keep this team as standard as possible, so I can see how manaphy blends into an everyday team. I'll add a thread list later but for now, read - rate- destroy - build up. you know, all that good stuff. Obviously I want to use the best set out there, no matter what other people use



Threat List

Gyarados- I've got no way to handle a DDGyara. I guess Gross could take a +1 hit and KO back with Thunderpunch, but there's not much I could do to it

Scizor - Zapdos

Salamence - I've never gotten in a jam with him, but I'm not sure I'd envy seeing a DD one. Metagross can do good enough damage to him to stop him from running over me

Manaphy - Metagross and Zapdos make him cry. the calm mind one that I'm using would theoretically cause problems, but I haven't seen one

will add more once I know what to add....
 
Cool team, i will just tell you something. You have a tremendous Mence weakness.
After 1 DD or 2 (which he will get thanks to Infernape, Zapdos, Manaphy or Heatran) it will OHKO every single Pokemon you have.
You could change Signal Beam for Ice Beam on Manaphy for denting him, or just use Stone Edge on your Nape instead of T-Punch/EQ.

Thats pretty much everything, i g2g soon
 
I dont see how signal beam does more than thunder to ludicolo. Thunder 180 vs ludicolo signal beam only 150 vs. ludicolo so dont bother. U-turn could work well or twave. Give these a try instead.
 
This team is incredibly weak to Tyranitar. Seriously, if a CB Tyranitar comes in on Heatran Fire move, something dies.

You have 2 Rock weaks and no resists. That's asking to lose to a DD Tyranitar.

Now, U-Turn is one way of lessing this Tyranitar weakness. You bring in Zapdos and U-Turn out to scout for opposing Tyranitar. Then you can have the speed advantage to knock it out before it kills anything. But still, Heatran is going to have a hard time not letting Tyranitar set up. Timid seriously doesn't help it's cause. Not to mention, SS doesn't help any of your Pokemon. Zapdos has a good chance of missing his STAB.

I suggest you try to correct for this weakness as I really can't think up of a Tyranitar counter or check to bring into this team without opening up new holes which force me to switch members.
 
Also, although you added Stone Edge to Infernape it won't really help against Salamence. Since it will be faster after a DD, you'll have to switch it in at the same time, which doesn't make it much of a counter. You might want a Steel type anyway; lack of a Dragon resist will making dealing with Salamence, Kingdra, and Flygon hard. Perhaps you could replace Ludicolo, as Zapdos is a fine counter for Manaphy. You only have one real recipient for the rain (and Manaphy doesn't have Rest, either), so the extra Rain Dancer isn't too much of a loss.
 
Well I also have a suggestion for more power to send to another sp. ATK'er than manaphy after suspect is over and if you want to still use this team actually baton passed the power to heatran for more OHKO's
RARE TAIL GLOWER
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@ Leftovers
96 HP / 120 Def / 40 SpD / 252 Spe
Own Tempo Jolly
- Tail Glow
- Baton Pass
- Spider web
- Spore

Alright tail glow to raise the sp. atk by two stages after doing that you baton pass to tran to raise his sp. atk. Spider web to keep them trapped so you can killed them. Spore to keep them asleep will the process is taking place and thats really it.
 
I see the weaknesses you guys are talking about. is there one steel that can check both TTar and the dragons? and I plan on retireing this team after the suspect test unless manaphy becomes OU
 
if signal beam is for celebi than why not use ice beam instead, it gets much better coverage and after tail glow celebi is OHKOd and during rain celebi cant status manaphy while grass knot does pitiful damage. Also try putting rest in one of its slots, 100/100/100 is pretty bulky even with out much defensive investment and it wakes up right away under rain
 
I honestly believe that you are overcompensating in dealing with celebi. I have to say that I have not played manaphy yet, but from hearing about it from top battlers such as panamaxis and antiques roadshow, one of the best qualities of manaphy is that it needs to be OHKO'd in the rain. You're running a rain team already, for heavens sakes, slap rest on it over signal beam. Celebi's like the only thing that signal beam can deal with that while tail glow + surf + rest couldn't.

On Zapdos, how about roost? Zapdos is walled pretty easily with 2 attacks (if it has 3 attacks, bliss still walls it), so you really want a way to heal. Taking 25% every switch and not being able to either do some massive damage (eg. mence) or heal up really sucks. Just dump heat wave for roost, thunder does enough to the likes of lucario and scizor. I would use a bulkier set too, but that's just me. If you don't use a bulky set then I would hope that those EV's OHKO celebi with 252 EV's in HP. If it doesn't, use a life orb or something.

This way you can lure celebi with zapdos, kill it and then send in manaphy and start a little rampage. Hope I helped.
 
Heatran in the rain and Ape in the rain get weakened fire type moves... so I'd change those unless you wanna have weak fire type moves Ape < Evire. Tran < Specs Jolteon.
 
Puggy- I'll think about scizor, but it occered to me that AgilityGross would do the job really well with Agility/Meteor Mash/Ice Punch/EQ

Thechocolatebunny- I added that one, seeing as I'm not going to be switching into celebi and if it switches in then I'll probably have a tail glow.

Redscarface- I plan on keeping it on zapdos

animenagai- well, I put ice beam on, which also helps my salamence weak a bit, and I'm also trying rest on a different team, but I find this more effective, as rain will disapear often and rest isn't all that relieable without hydration. and do some calcs vrs ludicolo with +6 surf when ludi is using the subseed method, and then tell me surf can handle him.

Kirby119- please do some research before you rate teams. Evire is pathetic, I know he looks awesome and he actualy used to be my favorite pokemon, but he gets walled WAY to easily. and besides, this isn't primarily a rain team and rain isn't up half of the time. Ape and Tran are necissary to this team
 
Just wondering but why do you use chople berry on heatran when more leads carry a ground attack then a fighting one ? I would use shuca but if you have a good reason its up to you

Also on a side note his name is REYscarface not red =)
 
Definitely agree about Celebi being overcompensated for. Ice Beam is 2x on Celebi which should more than suffice if you have some Tail Glows. Mence is going to do a number on this team, so you're going to want a reliable Ice Beam/HP Ice somewhere.

You want Rest on Manaphy otherwise I really don't see why you have a Rain team, as Ludicolo is the only Pokemon really benefitting from it (Gyara and Manaphy get more power with one of their attacks and it's actually hampering the abilities of Heatran and Infernape). Zapdos will work better for you without Rain Dance, and with a bulkier spread. If you want Rain Dance then you need to use either physically or specially defensive Zapdos with Roost, Rain Dance, Thunderbolt, and Heat Wave/HP Grass/HP Ice. Heat Wave allows you to take on Scizor (although Gyara can probably do that anyway) while HP Grass allows you to ko Swamperts and HP Ice gives you some way to eliminate Mence. Take your pick.
 
Roost over Heatwave on Zapdos because you seem to have Scizor with 6 pokes that Resist Bullpunch. Signal Beam over Ice Beam on Manaphy because Ludicolo is a bitch to Manaphy and most pokes that are seriously hurt by Ice Beam are 2hko'd by Surf after Tail Glow. Your team looks good though. And Manaphy is a rapist its just under the radar since people are overcentralizing it right now.
 
XxBlueCleric.xX said:
This team is incredibly weak to Tyranitar. Seriously, if a CB Tyranitar comes in on Heatran Fire move, something dies.
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On offensive teams like this one, that isn't that big of a deal. You send in death fodder or let the the current poke die and then send in something that can kick ass.

And that's a kind of silly thing to say as CB TAR can 2HKO everything
When CB tar comes in most things die. This team has plenty of attackers that can outspeed and hit tyranitar for SE damage
 
huntofthelion- chople becuase most leads actualy don't carry EQ and the swamperts that do have waterfall that OKOHs me anyway so I'd switch from them after SR

greg3064- I only mentioned celebi, but signal beam does a number on most of manaphies counters celebi, ludicolo, Abomasnow and other grasses in genreral. I put ice beam on manaphy, but Zapdos neads signal beam

cw33- fine by me. I've only had one scizor switch in anyway, and I used thunder becuase rain was up

EDIT:Mrobinson587. thanks for confirming that bit for me, but I still plan on putting Metagross on actualy, unless someone says no
 
Lightsabre said:
huntofthelion- chople becuase most leads actualy don't carry EQ and the swamperts that do have waterfall that OKOHs me anyway so I'd switch from them after SR
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More leads carry an earth move (metagross, heatran, hippowdon) then a fighting move if I'm not mistaken. The only lead to carry a fighting move I can think of is infernape and the occasional machamp.
 
you're thinking of the standard ladder. while heatran uses EP, Hippowdon is non-existent and Meta usualy uses MM/BP/SR/explosion. CS infernape is more common. I actualy think I'll try the water resistant berry though
 
I hate triple bumping, but it seems pointless to repost the same thread. I haven't played in a while and the metagame's changed alot. I'd like some rates and I'm not adverse to changing anything
 
Ill help you.

Ive been playing suspect for quite a while, and i am 100% sure that the centralization Manaphy offered on the first week is over. Out of 20 battles, i think i only saw 1 MAYBE 2 hail teams. So changing the all signal beam thing could help you in some cases. Agreeing, RainRest is one of Manaphy's best things, and should be used because its awesome.

Like in the Latios test, Agiligross is an awesome pokemon. I wouldnt think it twice, use Agiligross. The main thing here is for what? If you change Ludicolo, you only have 1 Rain Dancer, which can be a problem. Though, Ludicolo is doing almost the same as manaphy, and also Ludicolo seems the less-good pokemon on this team, but its up to you.

If you want to change it, i recommend you run this:

Metagross @ Life Orb
Agility, MM, EQ, Thunderpunch
Adamant, 252 Attack, 228 Speed, 28 HP

228 Speed allows you outspeed Scarftran, +1 Jolly Gyarados, +1 Adamant Salamence and +1 Jolly Kingdra. It helps you outspeeding Scarf Roserade by 1 point (Ive seen some of them lately, better take precaution).

I think thats everything i can tell you for now, anyways GL in suspect =)
 
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