Postgame <@manisier> LonelyNess postgame


Makin' PK Love
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It's my 3k, you all deserve closure.




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Mekkah and Jumpluff's Fake Postgame


Makin' PK Love
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THE MEAT AND POTATOES OF THIS POSTGAME STARTS AT EXACTLY ONE HOUR IN. (this is where I go into individual players and how they performed)

also asim got screwed by Brazil and Ditto's roles, I lied to protect him and got lucky they didn't crosscheck me

also also everyone else put me up to that fakeclaim


/me huggles
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First off, love all the Ditto love :D This game was a lot of fun and I had so much fun with my role!

I wanna elaborate on a couple of things and I hope I don't lose my honorable mention because of it.
1) I was in the channel that Eep said that misposted to, but I wasn't paying attention at that point.
2) Because of me being in both that channel and #g6 I was told by GK about Mekkah being wolf and was told to lynch him. I then I went to #g6 and luckily Mekkah wasn't around. However, as soon as he came on is when AG and Walrein started acting weird. I was also out of the country during this time, so I was having enough trouble dealing with this. I realized how desperate the mafia was if they were contacting me about that, so I told them that they would have to use there kill if they wanted him gone. This was the best I felt I could do at the time because I was still not sure about it and Walrein and AG were trying to talk me out of it. I believe I was inspecting him at some point, and then I was told to change it. I don't remember exactly. I might have died.
3) I was also the one who figured out that Eep was Ireland. We had 3 aliases left and they were Nachos, Eep, and LightWolf. I forget how I did it exactly, but I do remember that I did narrow it down to Ireland and then I think pluff confirmed it after.


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Firstly: thanks a lot for finally making this, LN. It actually means a lot even though (and especially because) a lot of time passed. Even though I still felt annoyed about it for a lot of time, I think writing the postgame with Mekkah was fun and cathartic in a way and got rid of most of my real irritation so I didn't care much beyond that point and the 'ln postgame' thing was just a gimmick designed to needle you since nobody really expected you to come through with it, especially after Mekkah 'banned' you (whoa runon sentences). And, like I said on IRC, I think this format is very inventive and fun, especially for the people involved, although probably inconvenient for the biyearly postgame rereading session. Also it meant I got to listen to Mekkah for three hours *sighs dreamily* Adding Mekkah was a great idea and made it a lot better and nobody cares about the mafia so anyway.

I enjoyed this a lot and I will just post a few things. If I think of anything else, which I probably will, I'll tack it on or post again, but for now:

Okay, so, like, everyone already read my thoughts since Mekkah and I wrote the first (not fake, there is a difference!!) postgame. But when we wrote the postgame we were full of justified righteous anger. Two years is a long time, I pretty much forgot nearly everything since then and I am slightly less bitter. jk but yea I think everyone who's played a lot of mafias, especially big mafias which are long and take a lot of effort, probably has 'that' game (for some people every game is 'that' game).

Despite the utter stupidity of how this game turned out, I was partly responsible because of my paranoia. I don't really blame myself for being moled by Mekkah, because Mekkah played way better than me, the best in the game (don't argue that he lost, because he could have won just as easily, the end day was essentially the result of flipping a coin, and he played way better than everyone else as a wolf up until that point, so...) and the circumstances were designed in such a way where he was supposed to do. BUT I do believe I could have done better and the fact I was so paranoid and prone to second-guessing myself (I tend to rely on my intuition a lot otherwise), as well as believing in something that wasn't true (that I wanted to believe in Mekkah, and that I had someone else I trusted as more experienced and skilful than me that I could rely on, and that I didn't think the village could be set up for such a fall, resulted in my acting stupidly against my better intuition). If you look at Mt. Moon, I explicitly stated early on that I set that up because I believed there was probably a role like Mekkah's that could infiltrate the masons, which is kind of an obvious corollary of the masons existing, and so I moved our operations to a place we could sanitise. (Also I just wanted to set Mt. Moon back up again.)

I blame myself partly for some of the mislynches but only partly. Some shit you just cannot account for, like villagers who are trying to ruin the game; that goes beyond irrational agent. I should have deduced what was up with rey's results but as it was killing him did result in him actually becoming useful, so oh well. rey probably should've just pasted his results to me directly. :x Hindsight is OP, I guess.

What I really should've avoided was the spreadsheet dying. The downside of the village leader system -- which is not enough to make abandoning it worthwhile -- is lategame apathy and idleness after the people who care died. At that point, hell, the spreadsheet might as well as been publicised, or at least spread more liberally. There were some circumstances we couldn't really cope with, though, like when Bass couldn't get on in time to stop a lynch. I was really angry about that. I can't give a fair comment on whether I think LN should've ignored the rule, because I am really, really biased about that, but it was an existing rule, so I understand why he went with it. But even if the spreadsheet hadn't died, I think the only person who really still cared was Blue_Tornado, and the mafia and the wolf were fucking with the village anyway, so whatever, who knows if it would've been enough?

Also while zorbees was never really trusted, the double claim gambit was done well, so yea, props to that. While the mafia did some utterly dumb stuff, UncleSam and some of the others put in a lot of hard work, especially in the lategame, that did result in a win, so no matter how much I whine, in the end I have to accept that. I think this postgame pointed out an interesting phenomenon, where stacked factions often collapse in on themselves.

I had a lot of fun anyway. MM2 is actually a really interesting game in hindsight; it had some very very stupid things which LN mostly owned (obvious things like the diamond, for example), but stuff like street justice and the goon system were really interesting for a game that was so close to traditional #fluodome setup. Street justice, I think, would never not be used by the village leader as a tool the way I did -- what I did was just self-evident --, as long as the village leader system is dominant, which I can't see going away at this point.

I think the mason system worked against street justice as well, and it also nearly guaranteed the vanillagers would end up on the fringe, although part of that is just who I am, LN was right about that (not letting people on the sheet unless they were clean). Another villager might've taken more risks, but at most points in the game I do believe that wouldn't have been warranted. I do think the mason system was a good thing though.

Finally, thanks to #g6 for making the game fun for me; even though I was so invested in it and it was so frustrating for me, part of the reason I cared so much was because, seeing that mafia is also a social experience, I had people around me who were fun to play and talk with. And a good doggie, everyone needs a pet in their lives. Finally finally, do not sub into games if you know you're going to Israel in a few days.
I have to agree with everything said really.(minus outing the wolf, never regret!)

I'm really not fit to lead a faction in the early game, where paranoia can be such a huge setback. Alas I wanted to organise our team as quickly as possible, and I guess that led to a lot of my team mates losing the will to contribute as much as they would have if they were the one take leadership. Also while I tried finding logs to prove it otherwise, and it was so long ago I can't fucking remember, and the fact that I at least never posted logs on the forum, I guess I have to accept I didn't inform my team about the contact I made, at least not in adequate manner.

MORE VIDEO POSTGAMES, GIVE EM TO US. (brb convincing von to do one)
(ctrl+f where)

I remember really disliking the 'hidden elements' idea back then (bias bias bias). I understand now why games implement them but, well, yeah, not fun! Good job actually completing this, with commentary no less.


seize the memes of production
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zorbees let's make a video postgame for pocket monsters mafia to supplement our text one

Also oh god that thread X_X
Yay, postgame!

(BTW, Mekkah: Unicycle was LITERALLY the first mafia game I played, and I was still hyperactive then, which is how I accidentally moled that way, and I lost to my teammate being moled by the village and giving me away). Yeah, I was still new for this one, too, and shoulda been more parinoid.

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