Mareanie, Toxapex Discussion

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Without any doubt Toxapex is one of the best Pokemon introduced in SM. Here's a spread to take on the majority of the current metagame, in addition to Pheromosa and Marshadow:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes / Baneful Bunker
- Recover
- Haze / U-Turn

So, of course Scald is the mandatory broken move that always burn the opponent and helps out Toxapex versus phisically threats, while Recover is the mandatory recovery(lol). On the last two slots I put Toxic Spikes, that could be replaced with Baneful Bunker if you want to, and Haze to not being pressured by setuppers. U-Turn is also a good option on the last slot to have a really good slow turner on the team to keep the momentum up. I'll put some calcs to show you how bulk this mon is.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Toxapex: 88-104 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 102-121 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 152-179 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 102-121 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 115-140 (37.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 90-106 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Tentacruel: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 113-133 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Toxapex: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 114-136 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 84-100 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Also, the Merciless set one is pretty good too. It's still able to take on a lot of threats despite the large investment in Special Attack and has a good offensive presence.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Venoshock
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes

So, Toxic Spikes is pretty mandatory to activate the Venoshock+Merciless combination, while Scald is here to not being walled by Steel and Poison-types(also is a broken move so why not use it for random burns? xd). Recover is to keep Toxapex healthy throughout the match since it hasn't Regenerator anymore.
Just to show you how hard it hits:
252+ SpA Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew on a critical hit: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and poison damage

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable on a critical hit: 366-432 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
 
Lange said:
dC2S59.png
sSUoxX9.png

​
Without any doubt Toxapex is one of the best Pokemon introduced in SM. Here's a spread to take on the majority of the current metagame, in addition to Pheromosa and Marshadow:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes / Baneful Bunker
- Recover
- Haze / U-Turn

So, of course Scald is the mandatory broken move that always burn the opponent and helps out Toxapex versus phisically threats, while Recover is the mandatory recovery(lol). On the last two slots I put Toxic Spikes, that could be replaced with Baneful Bunker if you want to, and Haze to not being pressured by setuppers. U-Turn is also a good option on the last slot to have a really good slow turner on the team to keep the momentum up. I'll put some calcs to show you how bulk this mon is.
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Toxapex: 88-104 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 2.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 102-121 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 152-179 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 102-121 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 102-120 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 115-140 (37.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 133-157 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 90-106 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Tentacruel: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Toxapex in Sun: 113-133 (37.1 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 156 SpD Toxapex: 113-134 (37.1 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Mega Altaria Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 114-136 (37.5 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 84-100 (27.6 - 32.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 100+ Def Toxapex: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
Also, the Merciless set one is pretty good too. It's still able to take on a lot of threats despite the large investment in Special Attack and has a good offensive presence.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Merciless
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Venoshock
- Recover
- Toxic Spikes

So, Toxic Spikes is pretty mandatory to activate the Venoshock+Merciless combination, while Scald is here to not being walled by Steel and Poison-types(also is a broken move so why not use it for random burns? xd). Recover is to keep Toxapex healthy throughout the match since it hasn't Regenerator anymore.
Just to show you how hard it hits:
252+ SpA Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew on a critical hit: 202-238 (50 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and poison damage

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 187-220 (46.2 - 54.4%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Toxapex Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 84+ SpD Clefable on a critical hit: 366-432 (92.8 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
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I think if you run a mercless set you cannot use scald. You cannot risk burning something that you wanted to poison. And I think you can get away with baneful bunker as you poisoning move if you have a second toxic-er on the team.
 
zferolie said:
I think if you run a mercless set you cannot use scald. You cannot risk burning something that you wanted to poison. And I think you can get away with baneful bunker as you poisoning move if you have a second toxic-er on the team.
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But there are some things that you cannot poison (especially if running only T-Spikes over Toxic). Things like Lando-T and Excadrill pop into mind immediately. Also, with T-Spikes, anything that can be poisoned will be poisoned before Scald has the opportunity to burn.
 
Valiant Scizor said:
But there are some things that you cannot poison (especially if running only T-Spikes over Toxic). Things like Lando-T and Excadrill pop into mind immediately. Also, with T-Spikes, anything that can be poisoned will be poisoned before Scald has the opportunity to burn.
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Good points. Yeah scald would be better then.

I myself want to use surf since I was gonna pair him up with Pallossand. Very weak hitting surfs to boost that ghosts defense and also its attacking stats since it will be holding weakness policy
 
Scald is better for threatening mons like Bisharp or Mega Scizor, since Toxapex Special Attack is very low so the BP difference between Surf and Scald doesn't matter that much while burn rate does, especially against setup mons who can recover HP and/or lacking Life Orb/recoils.
 
I think Celesteela is Moon exclusive.

I'm not a fan of the full SpA invested set tbh. Merciless is a good ability on Defensive Toxapex, but going full attack? I dont know, it's not really its purpose, or maybe I don't get it.
 
I'm finding it hard to find a reason to use this over the other regenerator Pokémon. The unique aspects of this Pokémon really aren't that great.
Baleful Bunker is cute, but really is just worst than toxic since Bunker is never guaranteed to poison. Toxic Spikes aren't even that good. Worst utility compared to Spore, Twave, and wish imo.
 
Teostra. said:
I think Celesteela is Moon exclusive.

I'm not a fan of the full SpA invested set tbh. Merciless is a good ability on Defensive Toxapex, but going full attack? I dont know, it's not really its purpose, or maybe I don't get it.
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Yeah she is/ I'll be trading her over to Sun :) And I found you don't need to put full SpA and still do damage. 128 is plenty. Then put 252 in HP and the rest SpD, and have Bold will give you 304 HP, 375 Defense, 350 SpD, and I forgot the SpA but it still lets you 2HKO a Hippodown
 
Jerdor said:
I'm finding it hard to find a reason to use this over the other regenerator Pokémon. The unique aspects of this Pokémon really aren't that great.
Baleful Bunker is cute, but really is just worst than toxic since Bunker is never guaranteed to poison. Toxic Spikes aren't even that good. Worst utility compared to Spore, Twave, and wish imo.
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While you make a good point about its utility, I don't think making a comparison to other regenerator 'Mons is completely fair most of the time. This thing won't be competing for spots against other Regenerator 'Mons, like Amoonguss. It will be competing against other defensive, Water-type 'Mons (I recognize that two of them have Regenerator lol). So I think that has to be where you compare strengths and flaws, not against as much against Amoonguss, or things like Tangrowth :)

That being said, I think it might be slightly too passive, when compared to Slowbro, but the Fighting a and Bug resists, and slightly more aggressive capabilities might make it more appealing than Alomo, and the extra bulk and healing will surely make it a more attractive choice than Tentacruel. So it will really depend on what the team needs, but it definitely has merit.

EDIT: Even more-so if you can find room to run U-Turn, which seems incredible, if there is room on the set.
 
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Teostra. said:
I'm not a fan of the full SpA invested set tbh. Merciless is a good ability on Defensive Toxapex, but going full attack? I dont know, it's not really its purpose, or maybe I don't get it.
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There's no sense to play any other spread either lol. It needs fire power, otherwise you can just put regenerator on it and use the defensive set(althought toxapex can take on a lot of pokemon even with the offensive spread, as I said)
 
Ok, what about, Assault Vest Toxapex Regenerator with 252hp/252spa
Sludge Bomb
Scald
Ice beam
U-turn

You can use this bad boy as kind of a special wall that can hit back too. This set is definitely strong enough to bust subs of offensive Pokemon, and it can take a hit or 2 as well.
 
Goodstyle said:
Ok, what about, Assault Vest Toxapex Regenerator with 252hp/252spa
Sludge Bomb
Scald
Ice beam
U-turn

You can use this bad boy as kind of a special wall that can hit back too. This set is definitely strong enough to bust subs of offensive Pokemon, and it can take a hit or 2 as well.
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Assault Vest on something with such little offensive pressure and so many important status moves that become inaccessible (Baneful Bunker, Recover, Toxic Spikes, Haze) does not seem like a good idea.

Assault Vest on Regenerator Tangrowth works because it has 100/110 offenses that can leave a dent in enemies with Earthquake, Knock Off and Giga Drain.
 
Durengardnit said:
Assault Vest on something with such little offensive pressure and so many important status moves that become inaccessible (Baneful Bunker, Recover, Toxic Spikes, Haze) does not seem like a good idea.

Assault Vest on Regenerator Tangrowth works because it has 100/110 offenses that can leave a dent in enemies with Earthquake, Knock Off and Giga Drain.
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Sludge bomb and Scald will be your status moves...!

You're right though, this setup does look gimmicky. Just worried about this thing being set up bait or outright losing to Pokemon it's supposed to beat due to it having zero offensive presence. Assault Vest set seems like a cheap way of keeping that defense while focusing on giving it some punch.
 
Valiant Scizor said:
I could've sworn I saw someone give this U-Turn D: If not, then I sincerely apologize.
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Its alright. Im just getting confused because there is so much conflicting information in this forum. like there are some people saying that "-ate" abilities are nerfed/stayed the same and some are saying that ice hammer is/isn't boosted by iron fist. and toxapex and uturn.

Its okay though
 
It worries me that with both abilities this pokemon can do nothing against misty terrain or substitute. Its damage output is so low and misty terrain is going to be a much-used strategy to beat defensive pokemon that rely on status like this. for that reason, i imagine tapu bulu to be this things best friend thanks to removing misty terrains, being another answer to tapu fini outside of toxapex itself, the two have great defensive synergy with tapu bulu ALSO helping with the eq weakness and he also gives you a little extra hp regen a turn which allows you to run merciless (something i think i would definitely be doing despite the benefits of regenerator, i think this mon is just desperately hoping to hit a scald burn otherwise). toxic spikes is nice to negate the healing of grounded pokemon from grassy terrain too
 
Anybody else having that funny feeling that Tapu Bulu might be the anti-SUMO meta Pokémon? I keep seeing this 'mon's name brought up in threads lol.
 
lalala45 said:
Its alright. Im just getting confused because there is so much conflicting information in this forum. like there are some people saying that "-ate" abilities are nerfed/stayed the same and some are saying that ice hammer is/isn't boosted by iron fist. and toxapex and uturn.

Its okay though
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I finally discovered why I was confused. I was thinking of WishiWashi. I knew it was a bulky Water that didn't look like it should've learned it... My mistake.
 
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