Mawile [QC Rejected 2/3]

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Overview
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  • Huge Power boosts its attack to ridiculous levels
  • Has the equivalent of 259 base attack with maximum investment
  • Has access to Intimidate before it Megavolves.
  • Very slow, meaning it absolutely must have trick room or paralysis support.
  • Access to Sucker Punch as a very ppwerful priority move
  • Below-average bulk but solid defensive typing.
  • Useful dragon immunity

SET NAME
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name: All-Out Attacker
move 1: Play Rough
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Iron Head
move 4: Rock Slide / Fire Fang
ability: Intimidate
item: Mawilite
nature: Brave / Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

Moves
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  • Sucker Punch offsets low Speed stat, hitting a large amount of the metagame for neutral damage. It can OHKO most versions of Mewtwo and Mega-Mewtwo Y
  • Play Rough is a powerful STAB, hitting a lot of the tier super-effectively.
  • Iron Head serves as a reliable STAB and OHKOs Standard Geomancy Xerneas sets at full HP. Nifty 30% flinch rate is useful in a pinch.
  • Rock Slide OHKOs Ho-oh, and often is quite a suprise. Stone Edge can be used for more power, which may be more useful for a couple of threats, but generally rock slide hits all it needs to, with a nifty flinch rate to boot.
  • Fire Fang allows you to break past ferrothorn, and can help with scizor and aegilash.
  • Brick Break can be run to get past heatran.

Set Details
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  • Adamant or Brave nature to maximize power output
  • 0 Speed IVs with Brave and Trick Room Support is its best option
  • Intimidate is most useful ability to have before megavolving
Usage Tips
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  • Must have speed control support, preferably trick room, as it requires lots of speed EVs to outspeed opponents even with sticky web support.
Team Options
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  • Mawile absolutely must have either trick room or paralysis support, as it is very slow and not very bulky. Good partners include Haban TRalkia, which also is able to take stray Will-o-Wisps.
Other Options
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  • In ubers it can't run other sets reliably, despite having moves such as substitute, pain split, sword dance, taunt, and focus punch in its movepool, since it lacks the speed and bulk to use these effectively.
Checks & Counters
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  • Anything faster when it's outside of trick room, unless they are weak to sucker punch.
  • Ferrothorn
  • Aegilash (Dislikes sucker punch though)
  • Groudon - cannot come in multiple times however, but then again neither can mawile usually.
 
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The analysis looks pretty well done, bravo.

My only problem is Mawile itself. I agree on your set choice but I was really underwhelmed with Mega Mawile when I used it. I feel like you are overstating that bulk of hers which seemed to let me down a lot when I used it while the speed is absolute garbo, it's so hard to apply pressure with her. I'm not going to reject just yet without other QC input because my experience is still pretty limited. I do want to say no, though. :/
 
I was having a bit of an arguement about it with shrang on the server.. I'm not the best player so it's hard for me to really justify it, but I've got a friend who's much better than me who has used it, so I've harangued him for logs [he's gotten #1 on PO's XY Ubers ladder with multiple teams]. I'm not saying it's one of the best pokes to use in ubers this gen, it does need really heavy support. At the same time it can be very powerful once properly set up, and I could find significant calcs to back up some of the feats that are more suprising (when I OHKOed a Kyogre after SR, and OHKOd a giratina [252HP/0Def] both with play rough I was amazed myself).. I can edit to state the bulk less - I acknowledge it's ubers so stuff hits pretty damn hard. And it can't take a hit from geo-Xern, and dislikes taking neutral hits from kyogre, zekrom, and yveltal, as well as earthquake from groudon (anything else using earthquake and it can usually withstand one hit it seems). I think all it is is that its bulk and 2 immunities allow it to switch in safely at least once, when set up, and usually twice if you let something else die for it to start a sweep.

Edit:

From my friend Fixed, 3 save logs (I haven't yet read them myself)

http://pastebin.com/N00J9rtA
http://pastebin.com/XmZUfShG
http://pastebin.com/NNauwNaq

First one is really good. Second one shows how easily Mawile can 6-0 a pretty sensible team (although he obv played badly). Third one is a random one where I kill 3 pokes during TR, I could probably find some more of those if you need them.
Click to expand...

A note, Fixed runs Fire Fang > Sucker Punch


I grant they're not fantastic save logs or examples, but take from them what you will.
 
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Mmm yeah I looked at it some more and Mega Mawile is just too weak for the heavy amount of support it requires. It only hits slightly (like 2%) harder than Mega Kangaskhan except that it doesn't have almost any of the utility and ability to force switches on its own. Sorry but QC Rejected 1/3
 
Well, I can accept your arguement.

Let's await what the other QC's say (I imagine it will be much the same but still)
 
I tried Mawile, and its really really awkward. It hits hard if it can get in safely but that's extremely hard to do. In order to mega evolve you need to successfully double switch, use a slow U-turn, lead (which generally isn't a good idea, Fake Out lets Kanga get away with this and makes it OKAY to lead with it) or come in after something dies, its bulk before transform is equivalent to deo-n's and that's just not fun. Its typing is kinda cool and its strong but I could never actually get it to stay in and hurt stuff most of the time ;_;, it kept getting forced out if someone sacked a mon. It can do some interesting damage though to balanced teams if they don't sack.

After a couple of matches I sorta forgot why I was using it really later I mean, I guess its kinda cool that it can stop Xerneas and mega evolve at the same time, but it loses most of its HP in the process and the opponent can use Mawile's low speed after its attacked to get momentum back after it kills Xerneas. To make matters worse I painfully found out that Focus Blast and HP Fire OHKO Mawile, and if its not the Geo version you thought it was and end up absorbing a hit before mega evolving it isn't a pretty end at all for Mawile.

The only true upside about it was its revenge killing ability with dat Sucker Punch :D. It can actually sorta check MMY if you get in on Strike (but if it switches as you sucker punch um......), there's similar deal with MMX although you gotta use Play Rough to KO it, intimidate helps a lot though.

Unlike Kanga, Mawile doesn't have issues with Rockceus and Gira's + Gengar so that's another plus, but at the same time getting it in um...

I'm going to test it a bit more before I make my decision to pass or reject it. Currently leaning towards a reject.
 
If u could give us an idea how that set works and what supports it I'd love to hear ^_^

Also my fault for not mentioning Knock Off in OO

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Some interesting calculations..
With sticky web support, mawile with these EVs and natures can outspeed affected pokes of the following base speeds:
125: 252+
120: 224+
112: 252
100: 184

I might have miscalculated those very slightly because it took me a bit of time to derive the formula, but at those EV amounts in speed u can outspeed pokemon of those speed tiers when they run maximum speed positive nature.

I'm not saying sticky web support is viable, but saving time for people who consider it by providing calculated EVs.
 
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Mawile has an awful time switching in safely. 50 HP is not very good, especially when it lacks Leftovers recovery. Think about it: how many of Yveltal/Ho-Oh/Kyogre/Groudon/support Will O Wisp Arceus/Swords Dance Arceus/Mewtwo can it safely switch into? Sure, you can predict and get in on an Ice Beam or Spacial Rend...but almost every Uber has a move to hit Mawile really hard. Due to Mawile's mediocre bulk and awful Speed (making it reliant on paralysis/TR support as you mentioned) I am seriously thinking of outright rejecting this. I'll give it a try though.



"Hard-walled by heatran, so brick break could be an option, especially since it makes chansey a non-issue." <---- Brick Break barely outdamages Mawile STAB moves, so remove the 2nd part of this sentence. Also, be specific in Team Support...what Pokemon can remove its checks and counters? Mega Gengar and Specs Kyogre can trap and lure Ferrothorn and Lugia (sorta) so they should get mentioned. Move Other Options before Checks & Counters, and again specify why some moves (like Substitute) are borderline viable but generally subpar.
 
Ah since this is still a bit of a way off from having the chance for positive QC checks, the best team mates are usually those than can either set up trick room, such as TRalkia. Bronzong is also nice since it sets up stealth rocks and can explode itself for a free switch-in. On the other support side of the spectrum, if you give it paralysis support from things such as lugia (and hazard support to weaken zekrom enough to KO with sucker punch) then it can either come in when something dies or use its bearable physical bulk in combination with intimidate to switch in to a physical attacker safely. Unfortunately it needs a lot of set up to get in in such a way as to be able to sweep (though I think with paralysis support, and running sword dance, you can mitigate issues with support arceus, especially since it hits rockceus SE with STAB iron head if you choose to run that)

As with the rest of what you said I'll add that in as soon as I have reassurance that there's a chance this might not just be totally rejected (polop is the only member of the QC team I've spoken to who seems to be leaning towards accepting, and I am aware it's a very borderline case). I think if we can establish how limited its bulk is (in that most non-SE hits it can usually survive one of, depending on circumstances - it's not surviving a specs water spout but it probably survives a bolt strike from scarfkrom after intimidate - not that that's what it should be switched in on), I will be writing in here that it's not bulky but with intimidate before mega-evolving it's not paper-thin, just generally frail - luckily with its resistance to common priority it can mitigate a lot of revenge killing issues, even with its frankly average physical bulk (thank goodness there's no fire/ground priority I guess).
 
Ok so I think I've finally finished testing this and I think I'm not the only one that thinks this requires WAAAY too much support for it too work. Mawile has trouble getting in and needs to mega evolve to not be useless instantly and that's really really hard. It can spam extremely strong moves if it can get in, but its too slow to bypass physically defensive walls. It can create a sort of core with something else to help something else bypass Groudon for example, but the support it requires to do this makes it hard to shove another sweeper in. It can try to check Geomancy Xerneas but Focus Blast and Thunder upon boost will render it useless for the rest of the match and it needs to have taken no previous damage (if SR is up Focus miss OHKOes ;_;, your going to have to run a second Xern check anyway just to make sure you don't get swept by it).

Unfortunately I'm going to have to reject this. I can't see any reason why I'd use this on a team either unless I was trying to use it either ;_;.

QC Rejected: 2/3
 
Q/C Rejected 3/3

Tried this and hated it, the bulk is pretty bad by Ubers standards and its only priority move is neither STAB nor reliable. Will-O-Wisp easily shuts this down and Ground types win easily. As Polop said, it requires way too much support and it isn't particularly good even when given it.
 
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