Mementopluff: viable?

Ryanide

There was once a rather interesting little strategy that appeared on Gamefaqs for a short while that involved a double-powder Jumpluff with a difference: It had Memento.

Jumpluff@wide lens
jolly
chlorophyll

Sleep powder
U-turn
Stun spore
Memento

By itself, that seems quite stupid, but the point of this Jumpluff was to set up for something far more sinister:

Rampardos@(can't remember the berry)
jolly
mold breaker

Stone edge
earthquake
natural gift
rock polish

The Rampardos held a berry that made natural gift grass.

The strategy was to lay down double powder with Jumpluff, then use memento and switch to Rampardos. With weakened offensive stats, the opponent most likely won't OKO and therefore Rampardos is free to use rock polish on the switch and sweep. Natural gift allows it to hammer Swampert and bulky waters as well as tough grounds who resist stone edge.

I was thinking, memento Jumpluff could also work wonders for any fragile sweeper that can stat up, like Weavile, Lucario and Porygon Z.
 
Well the Jumpluff seems okay, but Rampardos is pretty overrated as a rock polisher. Sure Head Smash hurts, but you'll kill yourself with recoil in a couple of turns, and you can't afford the miss factor of Stone Edge when you are so frail (and if you skip Head Smash on Rampardos, you're probably better off with Relicanth).

Setting up 2 Dragon Dances (if there was ever a time to use Dragonite, here it is) or an Agility Metagross seems like a better way to spend your time.
 
What bothers me is how this is supposed to be used effectively without a Focus Sash on Jumpluff, and even then it still takes a hefty chunk of damage from Stealth Rock if it's in play. 350 speed is pretty good for outspeeding a lot of standards but a lot of scarf'd stuff is going to rape Jumpluff with its mediocre (if not under-average) defenses. Are you supposed to use Jumpluff as a starter? If so it seems like all it's doing is powdering (hopefully double powder but...), U-turning if it's smart to, or sacrificing itself to allow a setup which could get KO'd pretty easily anyways if Stone Edge misses (which will happen a lot of the time without something like Wide Lens).

I like the theory but it's got too many holes to be pulled off effectively, I think the Jumpluff set on its own is more effective for maybe a Garchomp/Chainchomp Swords Dance setup or something
 
Has its own novelty, could work but yes as said rampardos is not the ideal for free turn. I don't know but metagross could be more useful I guess? Damage calculations for the sweeper wouldn't hurt
 
lol Rampardos?

Rampardos after a Rock Polish: 429 Attack, lol special attack 480ish speed. PS. Jolly? Why?

Salamence after a Dragon Dance: 600ish attack, 270ish special attack, 400ish speed.

Yeah, I didn't give exact numbers, it depends on the EV settings.

One of them doesn't have awful defences and doesn't get shut down by Skarmory, Gliscor, Donphan, Hippodown, Tangrowth etc. Guess which one.

Unless of course, you're intending to use Jumpluff in UU, where Rampardos could actually do something. But you started talking about Swampert so I'll have to assume you meant OU.

Seems like a lot to do to get off a crappy Rock Polish. Why not have some ambition and go for a Belly Drum?
 
it could always work as a 4th attack and be useful if the situation arises, but i dont think ti works to great otherwise.

still, subseed with sleep powder and memento in emergencies doesnt seem too bad to me.
 
I was planning a team that used Mementopluff and Dugtrio, stopping the opponent from switching out of the stat drops and also easily getting Dugtrio in. Memento can probably be used for much more than something that everyone frowns upon because of a self-KO for nothing.
 
The Jumpluff can and might work, no doubt, but you probably should have just left it like that. There are so many other things than Rampardos, and even after a Rock Polish, it still does shit to Hippowdon. Even after a Swords Dance, you can't 2hko Hippowdow, so at it's current attack stat, it's not going to do much. You're better off trying Belly Drum Aqua Jet Azumarrill or something else over Rampardos imo.
 
Lee said:
lol Rampardos?

Rampardos after a Rock Polish: 429 Attack, lol special attack 480ish speed. PS. Jolly? Why?

Salamence after a Dragon Dance: 600ish attack, 270ish special attack, 400ish speed.

Yeah, I didn't give exact numbers, it depends on the EV settings.

One of them doesn't have awful defences and doesn't get shut down by Skarmory, Gliscor, Donphan, Hippodown, Tangrowth etc. Guess which one.

Unless of course, you're intending to use Jumpluff in UU, where Rampardos could actually do something. But you started talking about Swampert so I'll have to assume you meant OU.

Seems like a lot to do to get off a crappy Rock Polish. Why not have some ambition and go for a Belly Drum?
Click to expand...

How about Tyranitar since it doesn't get owned by every stray Ice Beam or Ice Shard and can either DD or Rock Polish, and hit Hippiedon/Gliscor with IBeam.

Or Agiligroos.

Or go with the trapping option with Duggy.
 
I know, it gets owned by stray Brick Breaks and Mach Punches instead. And he needs to go Jolly to even outspeed Infernape, meaning he will have a lot less attack and a lot less speed after a DD. And he still gets owned by Hippodown, Donphan, Gliscor and Tangrowth unless he runs Ice Beam, but if he uses IB, he isn't running Taunt, which means Skarmory, Weezing etc are on their way. Salamence can just about 2HKO all of them with Life Orb Draco Meteor/Fire Blast.

How about Tyranitar since it doesn't get owned by every stray Ice Beam
Click to expand...

I think that "Salamence sux bcos he gets pwned by Ice Beem rofl" is a pretty shitty logic too. Tyranitar's obviously capable, but whether he can outperform Salamence at DDing is a different argument for a different thread.
 
If Sandstorm and Stealth Rocks were on the field, BellyZard would fail, yaknow? That doesn't mean there are other things that can't Belly Drum though! Memento could easily help let Smeargle set up Belly Drum and Baton Pass that out to ANYTHING.
 
Of course, any team with BellyZard would carry a spinner.

But I like Smeargle passing a belly drum to a scarf cham, it's really dangerous.
 
Passing a Belly Drum to a Choice Scarf Pokemon? Surely you'll be walled straight away if the opponent realises you're too fast for your own good?
 
Heck, with a belly drum + Pure Power- I think Medicham@ Choice Scarf would beat up all pokes that were not Ghost types....if not OHKO every one of them

and that goes for a lot of other CS Sweepers as bell (+6 atk) = hurt
 
If I were passing a belly drum out to a choice pokemon, I'd use Dragon, Steel, Flying, and so forth as the primary attacks (few super effectives... but no immunities at all and few quad resists). Not something like Medicham who's two STAB attacks have immunities (either Weavile will force him out, or Gengar will... or he won't be getting any STAB bonuses)

CB Ice Shard Mamoswine with EVs in Atk/HP/Def/Sp. Def seems like a good choice. CB Ice Punch Weavile, CB Outrage/Dragon Claw Garchomp / Dragonite / Salamence, etc. etc.
 
I wouldn't pass to a choice sweeper unless I was 100% sure your'e opponent has nothing that can live through your move, which chances are they do. Passing to a ScarfMedicham isn't so smart unless your'e already sure your'e opponent doesnt have a ghost / dark / Metagross (or Jirachi / Bronzong), since they beat your'e STAB attacks, and you have to switch out of your belly drum.

and switching out of your'e bellydrum means you essentially wasted two pokemon. (the memento-er and the bellydrummer).

IMO Jumpluff is the best way to set up a BellyZard by far. Not to say that that's an amazing strategy, but that if you want to use Bellyzard then Jumpluff is probably one of the easiest ways to do that
 
Why not Leech Seed? It can make a nice way to eat your opponnent's health while healing your own.

Rampy wants Leichi Berry, and possibly Crunch over Natural Gift (if you're even playing with him anyways).

Hm, seems neat that this can help set up Bellyzard. Could it set up something like DDance TTar or probably not?
 
Alright, screw the Medicham idea. The one I fought wasn't scarfed, I think it was a BP chain with a couple speed boosts and smeargle ingrain/ bellydrum. That solves the speed problem.

Back to Memento pluff, It can really help anything that requires a solid setup time to set up.
 
The main advantage is 2 turns of free setup instead of just one, which is a huge difference. And it works on pretty much anything since there isn't alot that at risk to a KO from a -6 Atk and -6 SA poke.

Heck you could even set up a Agility + Nasty Plot Porygon-Z. Modest Porygon-Z hits 810 SA and 558 speed meaning Life Orb Tri-Attack and Dark Pulse is pretty much a sweep.
 
Lee said:
I know, it gets owned by stray Brick Breaks and Mach Punches instead. And he needs to go Jolly to even outspeed Infernape, meaning he will have a lot less attack and a lot less speed after a DD. And he still gets owned by Hippodown, Donphan, Gliscor and Tangrowth unless he runs Ice Beam, but if he uses IB, he isn't running Taunt, which means Skarmory, Weezing etc are on their way. Salamence can just about 2HKO all of them with Life Orb Draco Meteor/Fire Blast.


I think that "Salamence sux bcos he gets pwned by Ice Beem rofl" is a pretty shitty logic too. Tyranitar's obviously capable, but whether he can outperform Salamence at DDing is a different argument for a different thread.
Click to expand...

The only difference between Salamence DD'ing after a Memento and Salamence DD'ing regularly is that he won't get destroyed if the Memento'd pokemon was the one carrying Ice Beam. Otherwise it's basically "HAI REGICE" or HAI SWAMPERT or HAI MAMOSWINE per usual. Nothing stops a Mementod pokemon from switching to a counter, or from Statusing or Phazing or whatever.

That's why you don't see Memento often. It pretty much blows compared to the other "If you kill me something bad happens" moves. I suppose it beats out Grudge by a small margin, but it doesn't hold a candle to Destiny Bond (which, btw, most Memento users get). Maybe if Memento got a Priority Modifier it would work well, but it doesn't.

That being said, Salamence probably does make a good candidate since both it and Jumpfluff share Rock and a nasty 4x Ice Weak.
 
Well something with prominent weaknesses is probably not the best candidate for the job. Either way I seem to have miscounted the advantage, in many cases its still one turn. But the difference is that the switch is essentially forced here, as opposed to the risk of trying to DD with a Heracross standing across from you, and you are left guessing if its going to run or Stone Edge your face.

That said my previous post about Porygon-Z is probably a bit off, in order to get two turns of setup you essentially need something that is pretty much guaranteed to be able to take one hit (Porygon-Z can't), and Metagross sounds like the ideal candidate for that, pity it doesn't get an attack boosting move.
 
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