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Format Discussion Metronome Battle

Why exactly is Chimechite still legal? It makes almost no sense from a tiering perspective that all Steel Pokemon are banned, even the extremely crappy ones such as Pawniard, yet Chimecho is still allowed to Mega Evolve into a Steel Pokemon.

Also please ban Spicy Spray, I fail to see any counters for it besides running dual Purifying Salt, Chandelure-Mega, or Guts. Being able to chip down at least 30% of your opponent's HP per game without doing anything is utterly broken.
 
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I'm curious to hear what people think of potentially allowing Huge Power from Mega Evolving, as is currently allowed on the ladder through Starminite. Mega Starmie was automatically banned due to the BST limit but became legal once Showdown adjusted it to its Champions stats, and I'm not sure if it will be on the chopping block later on due to it naturally having the ability. I've been using it a lot and personally don't think that should happen, but I also understand that the bans should be consistent (as argued with Chimechite right above). It's definitely a great mon due to its good mixed attacking and defensive stats and high speed, but has some noticeable drawbacks like not having the nuclear power of more min-maxed mons (even using Intrepid Sword, its Attack still falls short of Intrepid Sword CB Mega Heracross), not being able to Terastallize, and weaknesses to common STABs.

Obviously the only beneficiaries of this would be Mega Starmie and Mega Medicham; while I don't know if the latter was ever allowed, just from the stats it seems like it would not fare better than Mega Starmie is right now. Mega Chimecho also sets the precedent of allowing otherwise banned elements when it comes to Mega Evolution. I guess the big question is how far we are willing to take that.

P.S. saw someone using Receiver + Huge Power on the ladder and while I don't think that would work in the long term, it's one hell of an idea
 
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I'm curious to hear what people think of potentially allowing Huge Power from Mega Evolving, as is currently allowed on the ladder through Starminite.

Mega Chimecho also sets the precedent of allowing otherwise banned elements when it comes to Mega Evolution. I guess the big question is how far we are willing to take that.
As far as I know, both are oversights; Metronome tends towards consistent blanket bans rather than handling things case-by-case, most notably the Healing and Steel-type bans. Would the format be more interesting if it were more selective in that regard? Maybe slightly, but at the end of the day I don't think Ivy's interested in putting that much long-term thought and effort into upkeeping what's largely a joke tier, and that's understandable. Maybe there's a world where a council approach could offset that, but even then, I kind of doubt the community drive's there to take the funny random move mode that seriously.

For my part I have no strong opinion on whether that's a good or bad thing, honestly. Like clearly I'm someone who does find it really interesting to try and optimize and experiment within such a chaotic environment, but the more seriously you take things, the more you lose out on that sense of whimsical anticipation that makes Metronome so distinct. I've been able to relearn much of that whimsy and settle into a happy medium for myself with time, so I know that a healthy middle ground exists, but I also know just how easy it is to swing too far to either side...
 
As far as I know, both are oversights; Metronome tends towards consistent blanket bans rather than handling things case-by-case, most notably the Healing and Steel-type bans.
From the earlier messages I figured Chimecho was intentionally left in, but it seems like Ivy was mulling over it a little, so wouldn't be surprised if both eventually got the axe (and I wouldn't mind that much).

what's largely a joke tier, and that's understandable. Maybe there's a world where a council approach could offset that, but even then, I kind of doubt the community drive's there to take the funny random move mode that seriously.
Honestly, thank you for putting it this way. Some days I take the game too seriously, but I should remind myself that it's a very goofy tier at the end of the day...
 
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt

:chandelure-mega: :chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega::chandelure-mega:

Congratulations to all the Spicy Spray meta (ab)users for collectively getting Mega Chandelure up to a 62.34% weighted usage this month, and to all the non-Spicy Spray users thanks for all your patience and feedback during this searing social study. It's nice to see the community come together for a common cause.

(I'm going to alert Ivy here since it hasn't been done yet, but if he doesn't show up for another month, then we may have to escalate this to a profile posting or even get the official Pokemon forums involved to declare a ruling instead.)

To commemorate the occasion (and to put something short/different at least out in lieu of a full writeup tonight), I decided to compare how this generational performance ranks among the top Metronome weighted usages of all recorded time (usage stats spanning from May 2020 in gen8 + April 2018), only counting unique mons once for their highest showing. Can you guess who may place where?

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2025-04/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
:sv/pecharunt:
Pecharunt - April 2025

48.86%

Fittingly, Pecharunt reached its highest peak in its last full month of usage stats right before the month of its banning in May 2025, as public postings and perception of its power reached its most potent point.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2023-10/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
:sv/venusaur-mega:
Mega Venusaur - October 2023

51.41%

Mega Venusaur has had plenty of #1 positions over the years, but hit a peak in the heart of the Toxic Chain meta, while SV DLC1 would still be the most recent release at the time. Honourable mention to its 50.67% performance in December 2023 and a large streak of leads to follow.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
:sv/chandelure-mega:
Mega Chandelure - April 2026

62.34%
New Z-A mega Ghost/Fire addition Chandelure already had a dominant enough claim as the new all-star special nuker in town, but the prevalence of a guaranteed burn led to its Fire-type immunity being very relevant. And despite that, it could still run non-Spicy Spray abilities like Storm Drain, Beads of Ruin, and Plus/Minus to support its special nukes even further. Not much to explain here for people reading in the present, but I'm partly thinking for myself in the future if I need to do this again.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-10/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt
:sv/blissey:
(imagine this is a mirror instead of a Blissey sprite, if you will)
Blissey - October 2020


64.82%

Not much to say here specifically, but according to my usage stats post at the time, apparently this was due to "metronomer bot".
I used to write much briefer posts back then...

Looking around for context, this was right after SWSH's DLC2 release with notable newcomer horse Glastrier, and also an odd limbo time when Sturdy Shedinja was freed for a bit. Also mid-COVID, so activity was pretty prime for Blissey to be busy.

www.smogon.com/stats/2023-07/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
:sv/heracross-mega:
Mega Heracross - July 2023

69.03%

As the other long-standing competitor for 1st, I also can't say why Heracross blew up here specifically, other than July 2023 being the last month right before it was discovered that megas technically existed in SV and could use the tera mechanic.

I could probably do another one of those ladder surveys sometime with more mechanics set to come in, but it seems like people are still willing to make their voices heard on the forums lately too.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2022-11/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
:sv/dondozo: :sv/tatsugiri:

Dondozo and Tatsugiri - November 2022

81.70% x2

An exceptional memory of Gen 9/SV's release (and a little bit of Dec. 2025/Mega Tatsugiri in Z-A DLC) when Commander was newly added and utterly broken, rendering one slot immune but targetable and the other omniboosted.

I figured it was worth separating these two from the rest of the round top 5 because of the circumstances, as well as them having about the exact same weight to the significant digits shown, despite Dondozo winning in raw uses, though the non-Commander users were probably weighted so little that it didn't even matter.
 
special shoutout to :ogerpon-hearthflame: Ogerpon-Hearthflame for being top 15 in 1760 weighted usage with less than 200 uses! also shoutout to whoever propelled that. happy metronoming folks!
 
I'm new so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I lowk think Mega Eelectross is a very underrated pick for this format. Decent enough and consistent bulk, can hit with either attacking stat very well, and offensively its versatility and consistency can be complimented well by Download, Tinted Lens, and IMO Galvanize since it not only allows 13% of metronome's attacks to now hit ghost, but also allows that 13% to get a 1.8x power boost from both Galvanize and STAB. It does trade weakness to ghost for a weakness to ground, but ground is not as common of a defensive type as of right now.

If Ghost were not as significant Normalize Tera Normal Mega Drampa would be legit scary, allowing for consistent 2x-2.4x stab on every attacking move while being at least decent in attack and great in special attack and pretty bulky. That being said, the presence of ghost stops it from being so unstoppable, and the prevalence of ghost in this format basically makes it a sitting duck.

If Spicy Spray were to be banned but allowed on manual Mega Scovillian, we should note that Mega Scovillain is in of itself a pretty good mon. Losing tera is not as huge a deal if you simply plan on using Tera on your partner, and although you lose an item slot that you end up gaining the ability to run Download alongside Spicy Spray on an already strong and consistent mixed attacker, which honestly might be better than an item slot. This is all to say that you can and should still be afraid of this thing if Spicy Spray is banned outside of it.
 
I also wanted to ask, how do Impostor teams traditionally get countered? I would normally think Impostor's main weakness would be potentially not having the right item for a certain set, but there doesn't seem to be any item-ability combos that would be hugely significant and would be great against other non-impostor teams. Plus, I'm worried Eviolite Chansey might be better than any other item anyway if that is an option, but I will have to test whether it works first.

Edit: I just tried it, I understand now. PP is a big weakness
 
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I'm new so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I lowk think Mega Eelectross is a very underrated pick for this format. Decent enough and consistent bulk, can hit with either attacking stat very well, and offensively its versatility and consistency can be complimented well by Download, Tinted Lens, and IMO Galvanize since it not only allows 13% of metronome's attacks to now hit ghost, but also allows that 13% to get a 1.8x power boost from both Galvanize and STAB. It does trade weakness to ghost for a weakness to ground, but ground is not as common of a defensive type as of right now.

If Ghost were not as significant Normalize Tera Normal Mega Drampa would be legit scary, allowing for consistent 2x-2.4x stab on every attacking move while being at least decent in attack and great in special attack and pretty bulky. That being said, the presence of ghost stops it from being so unstoppable, and the prevalence of ghost in this format basically makes it a sitting duck.

If Spicy Spray were to be banned but allowed on manual Mega Scovillian, we should note that Mega Scovillain is in of itself a pretty good mon. Losing tera is not as huge a deal if you simply plan on using Tera on your partner, and although you lose an item slot that you end up gaining the ability to run Download alongside Spicy Spray on an already strong and consistent mixed attacker, which honestly might be better than an item slot. This is all to say that you can and should still be afraid of this thing if Spicy Spray is banned outside of it.
You could run scrappy on that Drampa though you’d lose the obvious benefit of every move being a Tera boosted stab
 
I'm new so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I lowk think Mega Eelectross is a very underrated pick for this format. Decent enough and consistent bulk, can hit with either attacking stat very well, and offensively its versatility and consistency can be complimented well by Download, Tinted Lens, and IMO Galvanize since it not only allows 13% of metronome's attacks to now hit ghost, but also allows that 13% to get a 1.8x power boost from both Galvanize and STAB. It does trade weakness to ghost for a weakness to ground, but ground is not as common of a defensive type as of right now.
Was testing Galvanize M-Electross and it really seems to especially synergize well with Hadron Engine Specs M-Ampharos. M-Chandelure works too but I figured since Electric Terrain was already up the electric stab would then become a bit more valuable, but I'll probably go back and forth and see which one works better. M-Gengar and M-Drampa also seem like they would work but I see little reason to use them compared to M-Ampharos or M-Chandelure.
 
Ice Scale M-Slowbro is really unique in that it probably has some of the best bulk possible, maybe second only to Fluffy Eviolite Chansey. In contrast to Chansey though, it has a terrible defensive typing but with a decent Sp. Attack stat. This terrible defensive typing can be rectified by using Ghost Tera, but even before that you can actually take advantage of the terrible typing with weakness policy, and then use Ghost Tera immediately after.

On top of this, because Weakness Policy gets consumed, if the ally pokemon has the ability Symbiosis it can hand over a Choice Specs to M-Slowbro, bringing its Sp. Attack stat to 1182, whilst still being the bulkiest thing in existence. This comes at the cost of an ability and item for the ally, but the ally can still use the Choice Specs while it still has it at least.
 
IMPORTANT SPREADSHEET:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GYJoKB_k3FO9XkdoWc-Pmlxnq49s318aB4VVseEcoUw/edit?gid=662335770#gid=662335770

I believe that the Ghost type should be fully banned from the metagame.

The only usage data from when Steel was legal was in April of 2018, about 6 years ago.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7metronomebattle-1500.txt

Out of the top 10 Pokemon used, 4 of them were Steel Pokemon.
Out of the top 20 Pokemon used, 7 of them were Steel Pokemon.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/gen9metronomebattle-1500.txt
A whopping 36% usage of Chandelure-Mega, higher than Pokestar-Spirit even when using a weight of 1760 (https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7metronomebattle-1760.txt).
Out of the top 10 Pokemon used, 3 of them are Ghost Pokemon.
Out of the top 20 Pokemon used, 7 of them are Ghost Pokemon.

Now obviously, usage means absolutely nothing here, so I want to go back to statistics. Remember how I made that spreadsheet a while back showing the average base power a Metronome move had? Well, I made a new tab to calculate how much less damage a mono-Ghost Pokemon receives on average, and the effective base power is about 43.3, which is about 17% less base power, or 20% more bulk.

Typeless:
1778634891805.png


Mono-Ghost:
1778634956343.png


Now, if I did my calculations correctly (which you can check for yourself on the spreadsheet), a mono-Steel Pokemon receives about 43.67 base power every move, which is higher than a Ghost Pokemon. A mono-Steel Pokemon has less average bulk than a mono-Steel Pokemon with the same defensive stats.
1778635734694.png


This doesn't even include other caveats, such as Ghost Pokemon heavily punishing High Jump Kick or Axe Kick, completely nullifying Guillotine and Horn Drill, avoiding Bind and Wrap damage, etc.

Ghost Pokemon are statistically more broken than Steel Pokemon.
 

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IMPORTANT SPREADSHEET:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GYJoKB_k3FO9XkdoWc-Pmlxnq49s318aB4VVseEcoUw/edit?gid=662335770#gid=662335770

I believe that the Ghost type should be fully banned from the metagame.

The only usage data from when Steel was legal was in April of 2018, about 6 years ago.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7metronomebattle-1500.txt

Out of the top 10 Pokemon used, 4 of them were Steel Pokemon.
Out of the top 20 Pokemon used, 7 of them were Steel Pokemon.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/gen9metronomebattle-1500.txt
A whopping 36% usage of Chandelure-Mega, higher than Pokestar-Spirit even when using a weight of 1760 (https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7metronomebattle-1760.txt).
Out of the top 10 Pokemon used, 3 of them are Ghost Pokemon.
Out of the top 20 Pokemon used, 7 of them are Ghost Pokemon.

Now obviously, usage means absolutely nothing here, so I want to go back to statistics. Remember how I made that spreadsheet a while back showing the average base power a Metronome move had? Well, I made a new tab to calculate how much less damage a mono-Ghost Pokemon receives on average, and the effective base power is about 43.3, which is about 17% less base power, or 20% more bulk.

Typeless:
View attachment 832546

Mono-Ghost:
View attachment 832547

Now, if I did my calculations correctly (which you can check for yourself on the spreadsheet), a mono-Steel Pokemon receives about 43.67 base power every move, which is higher than a Ghost Pokemon. A mono-Steel Pokemon has less average bulk than a mono-Steel Pokemon with the same defensive stats.
View attachment 832553

This doesn't even include other caveats, such as Ghost Pokemon heavily punishing High Jump Kick or Axe Kick, completely nullifying Guillotine and Horn Drill, avoiding Bind and Wrap damage, etc.

Ghost Pokemon are statistically more broken than Steel Pokemon.
imo we need to suspect spicy spray first, tagging Ivy too. then maybe [/b] we can talk about ghost ban. i think it takes a lot of diversity out of the format imo. but maybe im wrong
 
IMPORTANT SPREADSHEET:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GYJoKB_k3FO9XkdoWc-Pmlxnq49s318aB4VVseEcoUw/edit?gid=662335770#gid=662335770

I believe that the Ghost type should be fully banned from the metagame.

The only usage data from when Steel was legal was in April of 2018, about 6 years ago.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7metronomebattle-1500.txt

Out of the top 10 Pokemon used, 4 of them were Steel Pokemon.
Out of the top 20 Pokemon used, 7 of them were Steel Pokemon.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/gen9metronomebattle-1500.txt
A whopping 36% usage of Chandelure-Mega, higher than Pokestar-Spirit even when using a weight of 1760 (https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7metronomebattle-1760.txt).
Out of the top 10 Pokemon used, 3 of them are Ghost Pokemon.
Out of the top 20 Pokemon used, 7 of them are Ghost Pokemon.

Now obviously, usage means absolutely nothing here, so I want to go back to statistics. Remember how I made that spreadsheet a while back showing the average base power a Metronome move had? Well, I made a new tab to calculate how much less damage a mono-Ghost Pokemon receives on average, and the effective base power is about 43.3, which is about 17% less base power, or 20% more bulk.

Typeless:
View attachment 832546

Mono-Ghost:
View attachment 832547

Now, if I did my calculations correctly (which you can check for yourself on the spreadsheet), a mono-Steel Pokemon receives about 43.67 base power every move, which is higher than a Ghost Pokemon. A mono-Steel Pokemon has less average bulk than a mono-Steel Pokemon with the same defensive stats.
View attachment 832553

This doesn't even include other caveats, such as Ghost Pokemon heavily punishing High Jump Kick or Axe Kick, completely nullifying Guillotine and Horn Drill, avoiding Bind and Wrap damage, etc.

Ghost Pokemon are statistically more broken than Steel Pokemon.
To me, this data doesn’t say “ban all ghost types”. To me, this data that shows the Ghost typing is almost exactly as strong defensively as the Steel typing says “unban steel types”.

What we really need to understand is the context in which Steel types were banned in the first place. Before it became playable on a ranked ladder, Metronome Battle was a very unoptimized format. Gen 7 started in November 2016, and Pokestars were added to Pokemon Showdown in February 2017, but Magearna and Pokestar Spirit were both legal when Metronome Battle got a ladder in April 2018 while Doublade, Kitsunoh, and Honedge were already banned. Magearna was banned later that month, and Pokestar Spirit was banned in July of that year. This was before the BST stat cap was raised in December 2018, which is why those usage stats you linked have no Mega Ampharos, Mega Venusaur, or Mega Steelix in them. When Steel types were finally banned as a whole, it was March 2019, by which point Melmetal had become usable with the release of Pokemon Let's Go. Oh, and as part of the same decision, the format leader took the metagame off the ladder. The Steel type ban was part of a reactionary response from players from before the ladder existed who literally didn't want there to be a metagame at all.

That said, they had, I think, better reason to ban Steel types then than we do Ghost types now. Back in Gen 7, there was no Intrepid Sword or Sword of Ruin, so the dominant ability for boosting Attack was Defiant. If you couldn't have consistent full power immediately anyway, and without Mirror Herb to counter it while competing for the same slot, Weakness Policy was a relatively very powerful way to boost offenses. Bulky Steels that resisted practically everything they weren't weak to like Magearna, Celesteela, Heatran, Jirachi, Metagross, Pokestar MT2, and later Mega Steelix and Melmetal, were extremely effective users of Weakness Policy, so they were extremely consistent in a format originally intended to just be fun gambling. Weakness Policy doubling both the user's offenses also makes it naturally close the stats gap vs. Imposter, so the only really viable answer to it other than a mirror match was Unaware (although it seems like Mega Ampharos may have been criminally underused at the time; it was only allowed for all of 3 months, after all). If you were playing on the ladder between Toxic Chain and Pecharunt's bans, this may all sound very familiar to you! The sole leader of the format was faced with a seemingly neverending list of Pecharunts, as well as other powerful Steel types like Kartana, Mega Scizor, and Genesect, so I can't disagree much with the blanket Steel ban in that situation.

In contrast, the Ghost types of today are far from being effectively the same Pokemon. Mega Chandelure, Mega Golurk, Mega Gengar, Mega Absol-Z, Mega Sableye, and Dusclops almost all have different niches that use different items and abilities. We're also in Gen 9, so Terastallization makes even being Ghost type at all a niche that any Pokemon can occupy.

Your analysis is also rather lacking, I think. It only examines the defensive power of the pure types alone, but of all the Steels and Ghosts I've mentioned so far, only two are monotyped. Something that Steel offers over Ghost is its wide variety of resistances which help it pair well with a much wider range of types. Out of all 17 types that Steel can pair with, only 3 of them (Psychic, Ghost, and Ground) increase its number of weaknesses, while another 6 keep the number of weaknesses the same but increase the severity of at least one of them. For Ghost, there are only 3 types (Normal, Psychic, and Dark) that don't increase its number of weaknesses, and of those, Psychic increases the severity of both of its weaknesess while offering only a single resistance in return. It's also worth mentioning that, although I don't think they're particularly worth running, there are abilities that provide immunities to all 3 of Steel's weaknesses, allowing even typings that stack one like Heatran's to work; Ghost only has Purifying Salt, and no other typing besides Psychic is weak to Ghost anyway. I think you should run the numbers for every dual typing of Steel and Ghost and see which average wins out overall. You should also try running a second set of calculations using Gen 7's pool of Metronome-callable moves, as it was very different from Gen 9's. It includes many weaker, now dexited moves and lacks Gens 8 and 9's powerful modern signature moves.

As far as how implementing a Steel type unban would go, I think even the Steel/Ghosts deserve a chance. Gholdengo is maybe just too good, but Aegislash's stats and preferred playstyle have each been nerfed, and I don't think anyone would argue that Doublade, Honedge, and Kitsunoh are any stronger. Well, Doublade looks a little like a better Pecharunt on paper, but it has much worse special bulk and needs to hold Eviolite so it can't use Weakness Policy or Mirror Herb. Pokestar Spirit can stay banned, since it has just a little too much going for it, but maybe even Magearna is fine? Its stats are pretty underwhelming by today's standards. Kartana, Melmetal, and Mega Steelix can definitely stay banned, though; those statlines would be oppressive on Ice types.

Anyway please please please ban Spicy Spray and Mega Chandelure before any of that crap. Spicy Spray is just stronger than Toxic Chain, and Mega Chandelure is pretty plainly a massive upgrade to Mega Ampharos.
 
The main thing I want to point out is that almost every Metronome battles game has 1 monotyped Ghost from Terastalization. Every top used Pokemon in Metronome battles that isn’t a Ghost uses Ghost Terastalization, which I really don’t think qualifies the Ghost type as a specific niche when it is almost an absolute requirement in order to win. The only real exception to this is Flower Veil Venusaur-Mega. Delta Stream Pokemon currently do not have the bulk to work as well.

Also this is unrelated to your post, but I honestly think that a Steel Pokemon is far more healthy than a Ghost Pokemon because Steel Pokemon actually interact with the game, instead of being immune to so many moves that so many unique effects become useless.
 
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