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Format Discussion Metronome Battle
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
I really don’t think banning Terastallization altogether is a good idea. Without it, there’s no room for Pokemon with good stats and bad typing like Guzzlord, Tyranitar, Dragonite, or even Ting Lu or Type: Null. You just pick two of whatever the best Pokemon for the archetype you’re building and that’s that. The problem is that Tera Stellar makes that the meta anyway by being an incredibly powerful tera type that only really works on Pokemon with good typing to begin with. That’s part of why Mega Chandelure is so broken; it essentially gets a free 20% boost to most of its attacks while most other Pokemon have to tera into an arguably worse defensive type with no offensive boost. The only action on Terastallization I would support right now is banning Tera Stellar because it only makes the best Pokemon better.
I especially don’t like the idea of restricting mega evolutions from Terastallizing. I know that they were previously unable to due to natdex precedent and lack of research. Certainly, that did make for an interesting balance against Mega Heracross specifically, but otherwise I don’t think Megas being able to Terastallize is a widespread problem. Mega Ampharos already has a good enough typing that it was running Tera Stellar before the new megas were added. Mega Venusaur is usually used for its base typing on Flower Veil teams. Most other megas, including the new ones, are not problematic without Tera Stellar. If mega evolutions seem generally overpowered, I think that’s only because of where the BST cap is. With the BST cap just above 600, 9 of the top 10 highest BSTs allowed in the format are mega evolutions. If the BST cap were 670, the strongest Pokemon in the format would be legendaries, not megas. If the BST cap were 600, Mega Chandelure and Mega Ampharos would be banned by default, and the number 1 spot for highest BST would be something like a 40-way tie. If there are specific megas that are too powerful, then they should simply be banned, ideally one at a time.
In short, Tera Stellar is a fundamentally unbalanced mechanic in this meta. Its only function is to make the best Pokemon better and allowing it restricts creativity almost as much as banning Tera outright. In contrast, being a mega evolution is not a fundamentally broken trait, or even a mechanically relevant trait at all.
I especially don’t like the idea of restricting mega evolutions from Terastallizing. I know that they were previously unable to due to natdex precedent and lack of research. Certainly, that did make for an interesting balance against Mega Heracross specifically, but otherwise I don’t think Megas being able to Terastallize is a widespread problem. Mega Ampharos already has a good enough typing that it was running Tera Stellar before the new megas were added. Mega Venusaur is usually used for its base typing on Flower Veil teams. Most other megas, including the new ones, are not problematic without Tera Stellar. If mega evolutions seem generally overpowered, I think that’s only because of where the BST cap is. With the BST cap just above 600, 9 of the top 10 highest BSTs allowed in the format are mega evolutions. If the BST cap were 670, the strongest Pokemon in the format would be legendaries, not megas. If the BST cap were 600, Mega Chandelure and Mega Ampharos would be banned by default, and the number 1 spot for highest BST would be something like a 40-way tie. If there are specific megas that are too powerful, then they should simply be banned, ideally one at a time.
In short, Tera Stellar is a fundamentally unbalanced mechanic in this meta. Its only function is to make the best Pokemon better and allowing it restricts creativity almost as much as banning Tera outright. In contrast, being a mega evolution is not a fundamentally broken trait, or even a mechanically relevant trait at all.
I have created a Metronome Battles Survey.
This survey will be open for about 10 days or potentially longer.
The purpose of this survey is to measure the community sentiment regarding the current metagame in an objective manner.
Please share this survey with other Metronome Battles players on Pokemon Showdown.
https://forms.gle/xS5DfcmKLYa9zSik7
This survey will be open for about 10 days or potentially longer.
The purpose of this survey is to measure the community sentiment regarding the current metagame in an objective manner.
Please share this survey with other Metronome Battles players on Pokemon Showdown.
https://forms.gle/xS5DfcmKLYa9zSik7
Your survey needs a "Do Not Ban Terastallization" option. I would have picked it if I could. "I don't know/I don't care" does not truly reflect my opinion.
In order to reflect a better opinion on the best Ghosts in the meta, Mega Golurk should really be on the survey. Mega Chandelure may be more controversial right now, but we need to objectively show this in survey results by being able to compare it to another great Ghost, not leave it singled out as the only base Ghost in the survey.
(With Spicy Spray banned, I personally don't know why Mega Chandelure numbers have remained so high at the high tables. I find Mega Golurk to be more consistent due to having better synergy with more consistent offensive abilities like Intrepid Sword (possibly with Sword of Ruin) instead of the more delicate double Plus/Minus or the non-stacking Beads of Ruin and still having comparable bulk. Rolling physical attacks more often than special attacks also helps Mega Golurk's case.)
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I forgot to do this, sorry. It should be updated now, and I will edit your response accordingly.
You are right in this and I did forget to put Mega Golurk on the survey. However, I really do not think Golurk -Megais more powerful than Chandelure-Mega at all when it is slower than both Chandelure-Mega and Heracross-Mega (which is what nuke Pokemon seem to want because they rarely care about running out of PP or Perish Song). Furthermore, while physical boosting is generally better than special boosting since there are more physical moves, against other Ghosts (which is important since everyone spams Tera Ghost), the disparity between physical and special moves drastically decreases.
Storm Drain, which, while helps both Golurk-Mega and Chandelure-Mega, boosts Chandelure-Mega's nuking power more drastically than Golurk-Mega. Furthermore, Intrepid Sword boosts can be copied by Mirror Herb or countered by Intimidate or Dauntless Shield, and Gorilla Tactics is banned. For special Pokemon, however, Plus and Minus are both allowed and no special version of Intimidate exists, making special nukes much more difficult to be countered by other abilities. Ice Scales does exist, however it is only really used on stally Pokemon like Ting-Lu, which still get chipped pretty heavily by the average special move (about 76.58641975 BP).
+1 252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure-Mega Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ice Scales Ting-Lu: 104-123 (20.2 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO
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(um mr inky i got the highest ever elo with ice scales wp chandy? i would say it isnt just stally mons)
With the addition of DNB on terastalization, this survey is looking appropriately comprehensive. I'll put a notice in the title while it's ongoing. Thanks!
i would recommend a council no council option, put me down as yes
It's mid-July and the air is all smoked up here, yet despite my great expectations I have managed to persist past the midpoint of this current year of 2026, so I figure I may as well do a far-from-timely lightning round of catching up over the last 3 months of post-Champions usage stats while the survey is midway and the thread is at a lull. At this point this may be mainly for my own self-indulgence in terms of getting something done, trying to keep it short and at least just posting for now, no promises for full coverage within or beyond that, but that's kind of how things have gone as usual already. So let's get to it.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for April was 34892, continuing a notable rise from March and marks the peak of 2026 so far.
April 2026: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions
#1: Mega Chandelure (no change)
#2: Mega Heracross (no change)
#3: Blissey (no change)
#4: Mega Golurk (no change)
#5: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#6: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#7: Mega Gengar (#16)
#8: Ting-Lu (#13)
#9: Mega Sableye (#12)
#10: Mega Meganium (#19)
The month of Spicy Spray, though the big hitters, aside from Chandelure's raw and weighted dominance, are pretty much the same with only the latter places shaken up, with Mega Meganium being the freshest face from the bottom up (split between Flower Veil/Magic Bounce and mainly Mirror Herb over Choice Specs). Also, Mega Starmie (with Huge Power @ Starminite) debuted at #13 (main teammate Mega Gengar), and thus Huge Power makes its debut in the moveset file. Dark horses of the month are probably Mega Kangaskhan (#17/700 uses) and Volcanion (#19/405 uses).
April 2026: Condensed viability ceilings (principal GXE passed by a mon in the month)
85: Mega Chandelure
84: Mega Heracross
82: Blissey
81: Mega Ampharos
80: Mega Golurk, Glastrier, Dusclops, Mega Crabominable, Mega Scovillain, Iron Hands, Type: Null, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Iron Moth
Quite a bit of Fire variety trailing at the end there, among other things like Scrappy/Prism Armor Crabominable.
Onto May, with about two thirds spanning an unbanned Spicy Spray... Also, Huge Power Starmie is still here until June 11.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-05/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-05/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for May dipped back to 29914, though still closer to 30k than before.
May 2026: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions
#1: Mega Chandelure (no change)
#2: Blissey (#3)
#3: Mega Heracross (#2)
#4: Mega Venusaur (#5)
#5: Mega Golurk (#4)
#6: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#7: Mega Meganium (#10)
#8: Mega Camerupt (#23)
#9: Chansey (#21)
#10: Mega Starmie (#13)
Shoutouts to Blacephalon rising to #11 (927 uses) as the Ultra Space-brand Fire/Ghost Storm Drain/Spicy Spray Stellar nuker (Normalium Z somehow beating out Choice Specs, as well as Pikachu-Starter (#17/1032 uses), Mega Drampa (#18/787 uses), and Mega Clefable (#19/1199 uses) rounding out the top 20 as dark horses. All of Blissey, Chansey, and Pikachu-Starter placing well is a big Imposter indicator if I've ever seen one. Also, Mega Meganium reaches a new peak position, though it doesn't last long, and Meganium/Venusaur is the top pair for both mons by far. Starmie's main teammate would become Mega Chandelure, much like many mons following the 70% weighted meta moment.
May 2026: Condensed viability ceilings (maximal GXE made by a mon in the month)
83: Mega Heracross
81: Mega Chandelure, Blissey, Mega Slowbro, Iron Hands
80: Mega Venusaur, Mega Meganium, Mega Starmie, Mega Clefable, Pokestar Monster
Pokestar Monster has 120 uses, primarily paired up with Mega Clefable and ran Spicy Spray/Mirror Herb/Gentle. It also ran Tera Ghost (it's base Dark type if you don't know your movie monsters), though I wouldn't know which mon tera'd. Clefable seems to be split between Storm Drain/Magic Guard/Magic Bounce and Choice Specs/Normalium Z (which wouldn't allow tera)/Mirror Herb. Also, Mega Meganium is mainly Choice Specs and Flower Veil this month.
Jumping into June, here we have about a third of stray Starmie action before things settle back as they are now, as well as a little Champions update for the new mega abilities that didn't change much overall.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-06/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-06/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for June further falls at 26055, though still higher than the start of the year.
June 2026: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions
#1: Mega Chandelure (no change)
#2: Blissey (no change)
#3: Mega Golurk (#5)
#4: Mega Heracross (#3)
#5: Mega Venusaur (#4)
#6: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#7: Mega Slowbro (#23)
#8: Ting-Lu (#26)
#9: Mega Abomasnow (#12)
#10: Regirock (#43)
Congratulations to Ampharos for staying in the same place for 4 months straight so I haven't had to retype its row for this whole post. Chandelure's influence wanes slightly while the tragic clown Blacephalon has fallen back from its secondary spotlight, Golurk steps back in to further block off Heracross and Venusaur from the top spots.
It was kind of understated just looking at the top 10 alone, but in hindsight the tanks really did suffer in May, though they seem to have rebounded back and brought Regirock along with them. I feel this must be Ting-Lu's worst placement since existing by far, and I thought this was the first time it missed top 10, but it did also only make #13 in March which I have above in April.
Other trendy mons throughout this post: Mega Starmie at #12, Chansey at #16, Mega Meganium at #17, Pikachu-Starter at #20. My immediate first-world issue with these stats is that I don't really know who to call a dark horse of the month at first glance. Camerupt placed well at #13 but was #8 last month, Guzzlord at #14 is pretty typical for it nowadays, Pikachu-Starter has kind of fallen in raw uses but is also a sample Imposter, and otherwise Mega Dragalge at #25 (mainly Fluffy with some Good as Gold/Pickup, Mirror Herb/Choice Specs/Weakness Policy split) is just a mon that I haven't acknowledged yet. So maybe I will just hand it to Regirock for a huge resurgence (Ice Scales, paired with Slowbro).
June 2026: Condensed viability ceilings (unequaled GXE by a mon in the month)
85: Mega Venusaur, Necturna
83: Blissey, Mega Heracross
81: Mega Ampharos, Glastrier
79: Mega Chandelure, Dragonite, Landorus-Therian
78: Mega Golurk, Ting-Lu, Mega Meganium, Mega Absol Z, Krilowatt, Shox
Despite everything, Flower Veil can come back on top at least in the dark world of viability ceilings, along with a Flying/Aerilate team cameo (though Landorus-T mainly seems to run Defiant and even Poison Touch over Aerilate itself?) Somehow Shox returned with Friend Guard/Magic Bounce and Choice Specs, and also Krilowatt x2 goes Simple Mirror Herb.
Also just a side note I wanted to check on, Eelektross's main ability is "No Ability" (Eelevate) and it seems it's being manually mega evolved for it, though natural Eelevate users do seem to show properly (mostly Xurkitree and to a lesser extent Plasmanta). Thanks for your reading.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-04/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for April was 34892, continuing a notable rise from March and marks the peak of 2026 so far.
April 2026: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions
#1: Mega Chandelure (no change)
#2: Mega Heracross (no change)
#3: Blissey (no change)
#4: Mega Golurk (no change)
#5: Mega Venusaur (no change)
#6: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#7: Mega Gengar (#16)
#8: Ting-Lu (#13)
#9: Mega Sableye (#12)
#10: Mega Meganium (#19)
The month of Spicy Spray, though the big hitters, aside from Chandelure's raw and weighted dominance, are pretty much the same with only the latter places shaken up, with Mega Meganium being the freshest face from the bottom up (split between Flower Veil/Magic Bounce and mainly Mirror Herb over Choice Specs). Also, Mega Starmie (with Huge Power @ Starminite) debuted at #13 (main teammate Mega Gengar), and thus Huge Power makes its debut in the moveset file. Dark horses of the month are probably Mega Kangaskhan (#17/700 uses) and Volcanion (#19/405 uses).
April 2026: Condensed viability ceilings (principal GXE passed by a mon in the month)
85: Mega Chandelure
84: Mega Heracross
82: Blissey
81: Mega Ampharos
80: Mega Golurk, Glastrier, Dusclops, Mega Crabominable, Mega Scovillain, Iron Hands, Type: Null, Ogerpon-Hearthflame, Iron Moth
Quite a bit of Fire variety trailing at the end there, among other things like Scrappy/Prism Armor Crabominable.
Onto May, with about two thirds spanning an unbanned Spicy Spray... Also, Huge Power Starmie is still here until June 11.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-05/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-05/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for May dipped back to 29914, though still closer to 30k than before.
May 2026: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions
#1: Mega Chandelure (no change)
#2: Blissey (#3)
#3: Mega Heracross (#2)
#4: Mega Venusaur (#5)
#5: Mega Golurk (#4)
#6: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#7: Mega Meganium (#10)
#8: Mega Camerupt (#23)
#9: Chansey (#21)
#10: Mega Starmie (#13)
Shoutouts to Blacephalon rising to #11 (927 uses) as the Ultra Space-brand Fire/Ghost Storm Drain/Spicy Spray Stellar nuker (Normalium Z somehow beating out Choice Specs, as well as Pikachu-Starter (#17/1032 uses), Mega Drampa (#18/787 uses), and Mega Clefable (#19/1199 uses) rounding out the top 20 as dark horses. All of Blissey, Chansey, and Pikachu-Starter placing well is a big Imposter indicator if I've ever seen one. Also, Mega Meganium reaches a new peak position, though it doesn't last long, and Meganium/Venusaur is the top pair for both mons by far. Starmie's main teammate would become Mega Chandelure, much like many mons following the 70% weighted meta moment.
May 2026: Condensed viability ceilings (maximal GXE made by a mon in the month)
83: Mega Heracross
81: Mega Chandelure, Blissey, Mega Slowbro, Iron Hands
80: Mega Venusaur, Mega Meganium, Mega Starmie, Mega Clefable, Pokestar Monster
Pokestar Monster has 120 uses, primarily paired up with Mega Clefable and ran Spicy Spray/Mirror Herb/Gentle. It also ran Tera Ghost (it's base Dark type if you don't know your movie monsters), though I wouldn't know which mon tera'd. Clefable seems to be split between Storm Drain/Magic Guard/Magic Bounce and Choice Specs/Normalium Z (which wouldn't allow tera)/Mirror Herb. Also, Mega Meganium is mainly Choice Specs and Flower Veil this month.
Jumping into June, here we have about a third of stray Starmie action before things settle back as they are now, as well as a little Champions update for the new mega abilities that didn't change much overall.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-06/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2026-06/moveset/gen9metronomebattle-1630.txt
The battle count for June further falls at 26055, though still higher than the start of the year.
June 2026: 1630-weighted top 10 + last month positions
#1: Mega Chandelure (no change)
#2: Blissey (no change)
#3: Mega Golurk (#5)
#4: Mega Heracross (#3)
#5: Mega Venusaur (#4)
#6: Mega Ampharos (no change)
#7: Mega Slowbro (#23)
#8: Ting-Lu (#26)
#9: Mega Abomasnow (#12)
#10: Regirock (#43)
Congratulations to Ampharos for staying in the same place for 4 months straight so I haven't had to retype its row for this whole post. Chandelure's influence wanes slightly while the tragic clown Blacephalon has fallen back from its secondary spotlight, Golurk steps back in to further block off Heracross and Venusaur from the top spots.
It was kind of understated just looking at the top 10 alone, but in hindsight the tanks really did suffer in May, though they seem to have rebounded back and brought Regirock along with them. I feel this must be Ting-Lu's worst placement since existing by far, and I thought this was the first time it missed top 10, but it did also only make #13 in March which I have above in April.
Other trendy mons throughout this post: Mega Starmie at #12, Chansey at #16, Mega Meganium at #17, Pikachu-Starter at #20. My immediate first-world issue with these stats is that I don't really know who to call a dark horse of the month at first glance. Camerupt placed well at #13 but was #8 last month, Guzzlord at #14 is pretty typical for it nowadays, Pikachu-Starter has kind of fallen in raw uses but is also a sample Imposter, and otherwise Mega Dragalge at #25 (mainly Fluffy with some Good as Gold/Pickup, Mirror Herb/Choice Specs/Weakness Policy split) is just a mon that I haven't acknowledged yet. So maybe I will just hand it to Regirock for a huge resurgence (Ice Scales, paired with Slowbro).
June 2026: Condensed viability ceilings (unequaled GXE by a mon in the month)
85: Mega Venusaur, Necturna
83: Blissey, Mega Heracross
81: Mega Ampharos, Glastrier
79: Mega Chandelure, Dragonite, Landorus-Therian
78: Mega Golurk, Ting-Lu, Mega Meganium, Mega Absol Z, Krilowatt, Shox
Despite everything, Flower Veil can come back on top at least in the dark world of viability ceilings, along with a Flying/Aerilate team cameo (though Landorus-T mainly seems to run Defiant and even Poison Touch over Aerilate itself?) Somehow Shox returned with Friend Guard/Magic Bounce and Choice Specs, and also Krilowatt x2 goes Simple Mirror Herb.
Also just a side note I wanted to check on, Eelektross's main ability is "No Ability" (Eelevate) and it seems it's being manually mega evolved for it, though natural Eelevate users do seem to show properly (mostly Xurkitree and to a lesser extent Plasmanta). Thanks for your reading.
regirock was me haha and so was chandys gxe lol
I have updated my spreadsheet. It now includes a new tab labeled "Sums", with all the BP sums of every type (which you can use to calculate if your Pokemon takes more or less average BP per move than a typeless Pokemon), as well as individual tabs for each typing.
Here is a list of the average BP of a move that each type faces:
Ghost: ......45.51018761
Steel: ......48.99181658
Dragon: .....53.48053004
Electric: ...53.56262809
Fairy: ......53.98271164
Poison: .....54.54683746
Fire: .......55.47527385
Typeless: ...55.77316578
Dark: .......56.37053792
Flying: .....56.45318662
Normal: .....56.97351232
Water: ......57.28733216
Psychic: ....58.30513228
Bug: ........59.62953704
Fighting: ...59.71513693
Ground: .....61.29634276
Grass: ......62.00835689
Rock: .......63.43553792
Ice: ........66.64730159
So yeah, it turns out that Dragon and Electric are the best types after uncompetitive Ghost and monstrous Steel.
Update:
I have recalculated the average BPs after properly reevaluating the BP of the spread moves. Thanks to pyuk for helping me. I also recalculated Flying Press and Freeze-Dry.
Here is a list of the average BP of a move that each type faces:
Ghost: ......45.51018761
Steel: ......48.99181658
Dragon: .....53.48053004
Electric: ...53.56262809
Fairy: ......53.98271164
Poison: .....54.54683746
Fire: .......55.47527385
Typeless: ...55.77316578
Dark: .......56.37053792
Flying: .....56.45318662
Normal: .....56.97351232
Water: ......57.28733216
Psychic: ....58.30513228
Bug: ........59.62953704
Fighting: ...59.71513693
Ground: .....61.29634276
Grass: ......62.00835689
Rock: .......63.43553792
Ice: ........66.64730159
So yeah, it turns out that Dragon and Electric are the best types after uncompetitive Ghost and monstrous Steel.
Update:
I have recalculated the average BPs after properly reevaluating the BP of the spread moves. Thanks to pyuk for helping me. I also recalculated Flying Press and Freeze-Dry.
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oh neat we're finally doing a metagame survey, interested to see where it leads
Survey Results
The Metronome Battles survey received a total of 47 responses, 6 of which I excluded because they either played too few games of Metronome Battles (10 or less), or because they had a rating deviation of 100 or greater.
Enjoyment:
AVG: 8.073
MED: 8
Enjoyment of this metagame is high, even with how destructive Chandelure-Mega is.
AVG: 4.634
MED: 4
Competitiveness is pretty low, which is fine, I guess? I don't really know what anyone is interpret from this information for such an RNG-heavy metagame anyways.
AVG: 6.878
MED: 7
Average broken Chandelure-Mega. Can't believe this Pokemon has been allowed to desecrate and ravage the metagame for over 2 months.
AVG: 5.22
MED: 5
The community is interestingly divided on Imposter/Leppa Berry, with the results being all over the place. Imposter/Leppa Berry had the highest standard deviation of responses at 2.622.
AVG: 4.61
MED: 5
Pretty uniform distribution for Heracross-Mega, except with a skew to the right.
AVG: 3.463
MED: 3
Nobody thinks Venusaur-Mega is broken whatsoever.
Now for the more interesting statistics of Terastalization and specific types.
68.3% of the community wants the Steel type to either be suspect tested or unbanned.
You know, this statistic really pisses me off. My recalculated stats show that the Ghost type is about 9% bulkier than the Steel type and about 20% bulkier than typeless and eliminates far more unique moves, yet a slim majority of this community persists in believing that Ghost is fully balanced and shouldn't be banned at all.
51.2% of the community wants Ghost to remain unbanned.
46.4% of the community wants Ghost to be banned or suspect tested.
48.8% of the community wants a full ban on Terastalization, a ban on Tera Ghost + Tera Stellar, or a ban on Tera Stellar.
39% of the community wants a full ban on Terastalization, a ban on Tera Ghost + Tera Stellar, or a ban on Tera Ghost.
39% of the community wants no bans on Terastalization whatsoever.
(and yes, I did reorganize Lectrys's response)
And lastly, the community is evenly divided about allowing Tera Steel, which is funny because it evenly matches the even divide of banning Tera Ghost in some form vs. no ban on Terastalization whatsoever.
The Metronome Battles survey received a total of 47 responses, 6 of which I excluded because they either played too few games of Metronome Battles (10 or less), or because they had a rating deviation of 100 or greater.
Enjoyment:
AVG: 8.073
MED: 8
Enjoyment of this metagame is high, even with how destructive Chandelure-Mega is.
AVG: 4.634
MED: 4
Competitiveness is pretty low, which is fine, I guess? I don't really know what anyone is interpret from this information for such an RNG-heavy metagame anyways.
AVG: 6.878
MED: 7
Average broken Chandelure-Mega. Can't believe this Pokemon has been allowed to desecrate and ravage the metagame for over 2 months.
AVG: 5.22
MED: 5
The community is interestingly divided on Imposter/Leppa Berry, with the results being all over the place. Imposter/Leppa Berry had the highest standard deviation of responses at 2.622.
AVG: 4.61
MED: 5
Pretty uniform distribution for Heracross-Mega, except with a skew to the right.
AVG: 3.463
MED: 3
Nobody thinks Venusaur-Mega is broken whatsoever.
Now for the more interesting statistics of Terastalization and specific types.
68.3% of the community wants the Steel type to either be suspect tested or unbanned.
You know, this statistic really pisses me off. My recalculated stats show that the Ghost type is about 9% bulkier than the Steel type and about 20% bulkier than typeless and eliminates far more unique moves, yet a slim majority of this community persists in believing that Ghost is fully balanced and shouldn't be banned at all.
51.2% of the community wants Ghost to remain unbanned.
46.4% of the community wants Ghost to be banned or suspect tested.
48.8% of the community wants a full ban on Terastalization, a ban on Tera Ghost + Tera Stellar, or a ban on Tera Stellar.
39% of the community wants a full ban on Terastalization, a ban on Tera Ghost + Tera Stellar, or a ban on Tera Ghost.
39% of the community wants no bans on Terastalization whatsoever.
(and yes, I did reorganize Lectrys's response)
And lastly, the community is evenly divided about allowing Tera Steel, which is funny because it evenly matches the even divide of banning Tera Ghost in some form vs. no ban on Terastalization whatsoever.
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Tera should be banned.
Pretty amusing how there are two peaks for "competitiveness". Looks like there may be half who measure it up against actual metagames, and some who judge this format on its own merits with what is actually available to optimize (essentially just teambuilding).
As for Chandelure, I see no reason not to quickban it at this point. I'll put in the PR! I'm also going to finally remove Chimechonite since that also prevents the same issue from arising here with Chandelurite.
Beyond that, the next most conclusive result seems to be the 55% majority who want Tera banned in some fashion. Maybe we do a runoff election into a retest suspect?
As for Chandelure, I see no reason not to quickban it at this point. I'll put in the PR! I'm also going to finally remove Chimechonite since that also prevents the same issue from arising here with Chandelurite.
Beyond that, the next most conclusive result seems to be the 55% majority who want Tera banned in some fashion. Maybe we do a runoff election into a retest suspect?
If a Steel suspect test is run with the "Steel is unbanned for 2 weeks" format, then Steelix, Steelix-Mega, Doublade, Melmetal, and Scizor-Mega should be banned during that suspect test. I cannot see the community wanting to unban Steel whatsoever if those 5 Pokemon remain legal.
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Ngl the format somehow feels.... more boring? Ever since I was a wee young Grovyle I've enjoyed metronoming, but the meta feels stale and like we maybe need the actual poll results? Or a council? Or a tour? Can we get smth? Experimenting with stall again at least. Rah Rah we go wild with stall.
The poll results are still here:
I guess the only action leadership has taken as a result of this survey is ban Mega Chandelure.Survey Results
The Metronome Battles survey received a total of 47 responses, 6 of which I excluded because they either played too few games of Metronome Battles (10 or less), or because they had a rating deviation of 100 or greater.
Enjoyment:
View attachment 848844
AVG: 8.073
MED: 8
Enjoyment of this metagame is high, even with how destructive Chandelure-Mega is.
View attachment 848847
AVG: 4.634
MED: 4
Competitiveness is pretty low, which is fine, I guess? I don't really know what anyone is interpret from this information for such an RNG-heavy metagame anyways.
View attachment 848848
AVG: 6.878
MED: 7
Average broken Chandelure-Mega. Can't believe this Pokemon has been allowed to desecrate and ravage the metagame for over 2 months.
View attachment 848850
AVG: 5.22
MED: 5
The community is interestingly divided on Imposter/Leppa Berry, with the results being all over the place. Imposter/Leppa Berry had the highest standard deviation of responses at 2.622.
View attachment 848851
AVG: 4.61
MED: 5
Pretty uniform distribution for Heracross-Mega, except with a skew to the right.
View attachment 848852
AVG: 3.463
MED: 3
Nobody thinks Venusaur-Mega is broken whatsoever.
Now for the more interesting statistics of Terastalization and specific types.
View attachment 848853
68.3% of the community wants the Steel type to either be suspect tested or unbanned.
View attachment 848855
You know, this statistic really pisses me off. My recalculated stats show that the Ghost type is about 9% bulkier than the Steel type and about 20% bulkier than typeless and eliminates far more unique moves, yet a slim majority of this community persists in believing that Ghost is fully balanced and shouldn't be banned at all.
51.2% of the community wants Ghost to remain unbanned.
46.4% of the community wants Ghost to be banned or suspect tested.
View attachment 848856
48.8% of the community wants a full ban on Terastalization, a ban on Tera Ghost + Tera Stellar, or a ban on Tera Stellar.
39% of the community wants a full ban on Terastalization, a ban on Tera Ghost + Tera Stellar, or a ban on Tera Ghost.
39% of the community wants no bans on Terastalization whatsoever.
(and yes, I did reorganize Lectrys's response)
View attachment 848858
And lastly, the community is evenly divided about allowing Tera Steel, which is funny because it evenly matches the even divide of banning Tera Ghost in some form vs. no ban on Terastalization whatsoever.
Given that Ivy's response to the poll is to take action on Terastallization in general, but I rebutted with the Steel-type situation having more support, I hope the next action is a Steel suspect test. I know from attempting to ask for an "only Steel-types" Metronome roomtour that the Steel-type ban in Metronome is deceptively difficult to program away.
I don't think it's difficult to program. It's just that the current code doesn't allow individual type bans/unbans yet.
https://github.com/smogon/pokemon-showdown/pull/12207
Yeah the current Steel ban is built directly into the Metronome team validation code (and also some client side code for the teambuilder, filtering them out of the viewable list). Trying to find every thing that needs to be reverted for suspect is going to be a bit tricky.
Last month, I saw someone using… I think it was Innards Out Mega Gengar? I thought to myself, “That’s stupid. …You should use Regidrago.”
So I did.
Throw artist (Regidrago) @ Choice Band
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Metronome
The idea is that Regidrago is a decent Pokemon in its own right, with stats rivaling Mew (not a very high bar), so it should be able to actually get things done besides blow up and take something down with it, thus contributing at least 100% total damage dealt more consistently. Even being KOed from 50% is enough to one-shot frailer foes like Mega Gengar, and with Choice Band (and Sword of Ruin support) it can make up the difference somewhat consistently. This allows it to be as effective against slow-burn stat-boosting builds like Weakness Policy as it is against all-out-offensive Choice users. To that end, I’m running max speed to get as many turns out of Regidrago as possible before it blows up. Innards Out’s ability to quickly force 1v1s helps disrupt synergy strategies like Plus/Minus, Flower Veil, Pickup, Delta Stream, and even Friend Guard, so a teammate that can thrive on its own is ideal. A teammate like…
Clutch artist (Heracross-Mega) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Tera Type: Ghost
- Metronome
Mega Heracross is the anchor of the team. It pulls its weight in most matchups, especially in those 1v1s Innards forces, while not needing to wait for its partner to faint like Soul Heart users do. Against teams that pair one offensive and one defensive Pokemon, Innards Out is much more likely to remove the offensive one, leaving the defender alone with the scariest solo attacker in the meta. Sword of Ruin not only provides both teammates with a significant damage increase, but for once, the defense drop also being applied to its partner is actually beneficial! …Kinda! Sword of Ruin over Intrepid Sword also improves the Imposter matchup by negating itself, although this team’s Imposter matchup is still, um. Let’s call it “dicey”.
This team is fun and functional, but it was also pretty disappointing. Regidrago would frequently outlive Heracross despite being min defense under Sword of Ruin and not being a Ghost type. I tried messing with the exact spread, going for 252 Def, 0 SpD, 128 SpD, but nothing clicked. When I found myself reducing its HP EV I decided to bite the bullet and switch to the next best thing:
Throw artist (Cetitan) @ Choice Band
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Metronome
On paper, Cetitan should be strictly worse; It has lower HP, so its Innards Out is less effective, but higher defenses, so its Innards out is even less effective. In fact, it’s actually 17% physically bulkier at 252/0- than Regidrago. It has slightly higher Attack, but even with a Choice Band and Sword of Ruin, its very low SpA means it’s still less powerful overall than Regidrago. It’s also slower than Regidrago, which means it’s more likely to be KOed by something faster like a Mega Venusaur, robbing it of a turn to contribute more than just Innards damage.
The key difference, I think, is typing; Regidrago is a Dragon type, the third best monotyping in Metronome battle after Ghost and Steel purely in terms of damage intake. This is because its weaknesses, Dragon, Fairy, and Ice, are uncommon, while its resistances, Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric, are some of the most significant attacking types after Normal. Cetitan, on the other hand, has the single worst defensive monotype available: Ice. This means, on average, Cetitan takes 24.5% more damage in general than it would as a pure Dragon type, more than outweighing the increased bulk from its stats.
Surprisingly, this seems to have made the difference! Maybe it’s just because I expected less of Cetitan, or maybe I just got luckier, but the Cetitan version of this team seemed to be more consistent than the Regidrago version. It even managed to peak 1457 on the ladder!
Now, with all of that said, I plan to return to trying Regidrago, this time with reduced HP and 0 SpD to try and bring its average bulk more in line with Cetitan’s to see if that lets its better offensive stats win out.
Here are some other options I considered for the Innards slot and why I didn’t really try them, sorted by HP:
223
170
165
160
151
150
P.S. If you’re wondering how exactly Guzzlord’s dual type stands up defensively to Regidrago and Cetitan’s, try out my edit of the spreadsheet InkyDarkBird made! It generalizes type matchups and condenses them all into one sheet, so not only is directly comparing types easier, but it can also properly handle defensive dual types like Dark/Dragon, Ghost/Ground, and anything else you’re curious about! These changes are all in the Sums tab. To be able to select different types in the dropdown, make a copy of the sheet so you can edit it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qkHgL5q42UspEGOBdS0AKF8PcKjdqh-z8bxHJpWI63A/
So I did.
Throw artist (Regidrago) @ Choice Band
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def
- Metronome
The idea is that Regidrago is a decent Pokemon in its own right, with stats rivaling Mew (not a very high bar), so it should be able to actually get things done besides blow up and take something down with it, thus contributing at least 100% total damage dealt more consistently. Even being KOed from 50% is enough to one-shot frailer foes like Mega Gengar, and with Choice Band (and Sword of Ruin support) it can make up the difference somewhat consistently. This allows it to be as effective against slow-burn stat-boosting builds like Weakness Policy as it is against all-out-offensive Choice users. To that end, I’m running max speed to get as many turns out of Regidrago as possible before it blows up. Innards Out’s ability to quickly force 1v1s helps disrupt synergy strategies like Plus/Minus, Flower Veil, Pickup, Delta Stream, and even Friend Guard, so a teammate that can thrive on its own is ideal. A teammate like…
Clutch artist (Heracross-Mega) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
Tera Type: Ghost
- Metronome
Mega Heracross is the anchor of the team. It pulls its weight in most matchups, especially in those 1v1s Innards forces, while not needing to wait for its partner to faint like Soul Heart users do. Against teams that pair one offensive and one defensive Pokemon, Innards Out is much more likely to remove the offensive one, leaving the defender alone with the scariest solo attacker in the meta. Sword of Ruin not only provides both teammates with a significant damage increase, but for once, the defense drop also being applied to its partner is actually beneficial! …Kinda! Sword of Ruin over Intrepid Sword also improves the Imposter matchup by negating itself, although this team’s Imposter matchup is still, um. Let’s call it “dicey”.
This team is fun and functional, but it was also pretty disappointing. Regidrago would frequently outlive Heracross despite being min defense under Sword of Ruin and not being a Ghost type. I tried messing with the exact spread, going for 252 Def, 0 SpD, 128 SpD, but nothing clicked. When I found myself reducing its HP EV I decided to bite the bullet and switch to the next best thing:
Throw artist (Cetitan) @ Choice Band
Ability: Innards Out
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Metronome
On paper, Cetitan should be strictly worse; It has lower HP, so its Innards Out is less effective, but higher defenses, so its Innards out is even less effective. In fact, it’s actually 17% physically bulkier at 252/0- than Regidrago. It has slightly higher Attack, but even with a Choice Band and Sword of Ruin, its very low SpA means it’s still less powerful overall than Regidrago. It’s also slower than Regidrago, which means it’s more likely to be KOed by something faster like a Mega Venusaur, robbing it of a turn to contribute more than just Innards damage.
The key difference, I think, is typing; Regidrago is a Dragon type, the third best monotyping in Metronome battle after Ghost and Steel purely in terms of damage intake. This is because its weaknesses, Dragon, Fairy, and Ice, are uncommon, while its resistances, Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric, are some of the most significant attacking types after Normal. Cetitan, on the other hand, has the single worst defensive monotype available: Ice. This means, on average, Cetitan takes 24.5% more damage in general than it would as a pure Dragon type, more than outweighing the increased bulk from its stats.
Surprisingly, this seems to have made the difference! Maybe it’s just because I expected less of Cetitan, or maybe I just got luckier, but the Cetitan version of this team seemed to be more consistent than the Regidrago version. It even managed to peak 1457 on the ladder!
Now, with all of that said, I plan to return to trying Regidrago, this time with reduced HP and 0 SpD to try and bring its average bulk more in line with Cetitan’s to see if that lets its better offensive stats win out.
Here are some other options I considered for the Innards slot and why I didn’t really try them, sorted by HP:
223Guzzlord is mostly a strictly better version of Regidrago. It has more HP and slightly higher defenses but a somewhat weaker defensive typing overall, and about the same offenses but biased more towards Attack which is ideal. The main issue is its speed; at 252+, it can only barely outspeed base 55s like Mega Golurk and Mega Ampharos running 252-. To be fair, that is the most common speed tier for those two, but getting outsped by 252- on anything faster than that means Guzzlord will frequently lose turns to being KOed, flinched, or statused before it can move. I will give Guzzlord a fair shake eventually, but I think the speed factor will be the deciding one.
170What could be better than a whale and a lord? Not this. Every one of Wailord’s stats is lower than Regidrago’s. That does mean lower defenses while still having as much HP as Cetitan, but that comes with lower offenses and a lot less speed. In particular, Wailord fails to outspeed Adamant Mega Heracross, while Cetitan can speed tie 252- base 100s. Pure Water is a pretty bad defensive type, but it’s nowhere close to Ice. It’s pretty clearly outclassed by Guzzlord, Regidrago, and/or Cetitan, no matter how you slice it.
165Ting Lu is generally appreciated for its incredible bulk and above average Attack stat, making it a powerful user of Ice Scales and/or Weakness Policy. It should come as no surprise, then, that I didn’t consider it as a viable Innards Out user. Having extensively used Ting Lu in more common roles myself, I know just how long this thing sticks around, even when you don’t Terastallize it. That said, now that I think about it, I wonder if an Innards Out Weakness Policy bulk-invested Ting Lu set could work? Weakness Policy is normally vulnerable to being taken advantage of by Mirror Herbs, but maybe Innards Out could effectively punish that, while Weakness Policy and the increased bulk could help handle stall teams that can’t OHKO much of anything? Hmm…
…maybe just use Unaware instead.
…maybe just use Unaware instead.
160Snorlax seems like an obvious choice for high HP, high Attack, and low Defense, but it’s actually not nearly as min-maxed as you may think. Its Defense is the same as Cetitan’s, while its HP and Attack are both lower. 160 HP is also below the Ting Lu line, which is a significant cutoff point in Innards Out viability in my opinion. Pure Normal is quite bad as defensive typings go, about the same as Water, but it’s still no Ice. Snorlax’s high SpD mean you would most likely want to invest in that stat to minimize special chip damage that’s unlikely to 1 or 2HKO, but that hurts the team’s matchup against Plus/Minus quite a lot, I think, and the extra bulk doesn’t really improve the Imposter matchup either. Snorlax is also, of course, incredibly slow. That maybe has some Perish Song implications, but when your job is already to die first, dying last becomes understandably more difficult. Overall, Snorlax’s stats seem to make it just a worse Cetitan in most every situation.
151This wannabe Ultra Beast may have the highest Speed of anything with 150+ HP, but its offenses are low, its defenses are high, and its typing is too good. Paralysis immunity is nice, but not enough.
150Drifblim has very similar stats to Wailord, but trading HP and Attack for SpD and Speed. It is notably as fast as Regidrago, and its defensive typing is incredible. But… I don’t want its defensive typing to be incredible. No, Mr. Bond, I expect it to die. I predict Drifblim would usually sit around on the field doing next to nothing, overstaying its welcome and rarely achieving its goal of dealing over 100% damage.
P.S. If you’re wondering how exactly Guzzlord’s dual type stands up defensively to Regidrago and Cetitan’s, try out my edit of the spreadsheet InkyDarkBird made! It generalizes type matchups and condenses them all into one sheet, so not only is directly comparing types easier, but it can also properly handle defensive dual types like Dark/Dragon, Ghost/Ground, and anything else you’re curious about! These changes are all in the Sums tab. To be able to select different types in the dropdown, make a copy of the sheet so you can edit it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qkHgL5q42UspEGOBdS0AKF8PcKjdqh-z8bxHJpWI63A/
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Hey guys! I've been trying to reinvent/optimize some of the current meta comps and wanted to showcase them, here is what my testing and research have led to:
Stall (Electric Engine): I really like this new version of stall because can reach high defense peaks, and with Magic Guard, Regice can only be affected by attacks. This means that in the stall mirror, Mu is very favorable. I also tested this comp with Ting Lu + Psychic Seed, but the stat comparison seemed better with Regice (let me know if you find better stat pairings).
Regice:
Ting-Lu:
HO (Electric Engine): This version is also very fun but very vulnerable. Picking a special move can mean massive damage. It's not very strong against SPD walls. You can opt to tera Stellar Gengar to have poison type on both, but this makes Glimmora 4x weak to ground, your choice. I also think the terrain extender can be changed with the specs, but for a grind game, it might be more useful.
HO (delta stream): This team is stupidly fun, even though on paper you have no weaknesses, the team lacks resilience. Mu vs Ho & Flower Veil is good, but vs Stall & imposter Stuff...let's not even talk about it...
Classic HO: There's not much to optimize here, double ghost and Hope to click a physical move.
Flower Veil: Overall one of the most boring comps. I think Slowbro is the best for abusing this comp due to his ability to be a wall. With Simple and Mirror Herb, he always guarantees a positive boost (unless he ends up dropping himself with Overheat, etc.). This comp is good vs. Stall but can have a tough time against Ho Stuff.
Flower Veil (Primordial Sea): This comp is even more boring :( , it's very limited to getting hit by super effective moves and I don't think it's the best version of the team, but it's definitely a variant with potential.
Primordial Sea: This team is a bit of a rogue, but against the right comps, can have a great advantage; with Refrigerate Glalie, it can hit Flower Veil comps and Golurk with solid damage.
Imposter Comp: The only optimization you can do for this team is to play Bliss Min Speed so that Blissey doesn't transform in the full mirror and can have more PP and win by stall.
That's all for now! I'll keep cooking up new comps, keep metronoming!
Stall (Electric Engine): I really like this new version of stall because can reach high defense peaks, and with Magic Guard, Regice can only be affected by attacks. This means that in the stall mirror, Mu is very favorable. I also tested this comp with Ting Lu + Psychic Seed, but the stat comparison seemed better with Regice (let me know if you find better stat pairings).
Regice:
Ting-Lu:
HO (Electric Engine): This version is also very fun but very vulnerable. Picking a special move can mean massive damage. It's not very strong against SPD walls. You can opt to tera Stellar Gengar to have poison type on both, but this makes Glimmora 4x weak to ground, your choice. I also think the terrain extender can be changed with the specs, but for a grind game, it might be more useful.
HO (delta stream): This team is stupidly fun, even though on paper you have no weaknesses, the team lacks resilience. Mu vs Ho & Flower Veil is good, but vs Stall & imposter Stuff...let's not even talk about it...
Classic HO: There's not much to optimize here, double ghost and Hope to click a physical move.
Flower Veil: Overall one of the most boring comps. I think Slowbro is the best for abusing this comp due to his ability to be a wall. With Simple and Mirror Herb, he always guarantees a positive boost (unless he ends up dropping himself with Overheat, etc.). This comp is good vs. Stall but can have a tough time against Ho Stuff.
Flower Veil (Primordial Sea): This comp is even more boring :( , it's very limited to getting hit by super effective moves and I don't think it's the best version of the team, but it's definitely a variant with potential.
Primordial Sea: This team is a bit of a rogue, but against the right comps, can have a great advantage; with Refrigerate Glalie, it can hit Flower Veil comps and Golurk with solid damage.
Imposter Comp: The only optimization you can do for this team is to play Bliss Min Speed so that Blissey doesn't transform in the full mirror and can have more PP and win by stall.
That's all for now! I'll keep cooking up new comps, keep metronoming!