I don't see the big deal in wanting a ban on Imprison. This is a Metronome ladder. It isn't some highly competitive format. It's basically entirely RNG other than the teambuilding aspect. You're going to hax others/get haxed on all the time.
OHKO moves worse than Imprison? Really? To win with OHKO moves, you have to roll them twice, then pass a 30% accuracy roll both times, and both have to target Pokemon that are not immune to them and are not sashed/Sturdy.It's a random metagame, deal with it. I don't see anyone complaining about OHKO moves which are even more dumb.
Mechanics is the only part I feel is relevant to replicate, after all we're using megas without megastone and with custom abilities already. Banning Imprison, OHKO-moves, or anything else like that is just dumb and is part of the RNG in this meta.OHKO moves worse than Imprison? Really? To win with OHKO moves, you have to roll them twice, then pass a 30% accuracy roll both times, and both have to target Pokemon that are not immune to them and are not sashed/Sturdy.
Imprison is a whole different ballgame. If you use it, and you have at least one Pokemon that isn't within chip damage range of getting KOed, you win. That's it. No further luck needed, and crucially, absolutely no possible counterplay. (Edit: I guess you might be able to recover the battle if the mon using Imprison KOs itself.) There are no abilities or items that I know of that protect you from Imprison, and no moves that clear or prevent its effect. Plus you're not really losing because of the move's effect, you're losing because the rules of the format dictate that the move has to be an instant win condition in like 99% of situations. I can see why people feel differently about it.
I personally don't support an Imprison ban, but that's mostly because it seems antithetical to the point of the metagame to mess with Metronome's effects more than is necessary to make the format playable. But then, I'm also not fond of Pokestar Studios props or literal custom create-a-mons being allowed and I feel like this format should at least be making an effort to emulate cartridge Metronome battles.
OHKO moves aren't nearly as dumb as Imprison. OHKO moves have a higher chance to miss and only target one mon, while Imprison prevents both mons from attacking, forcing you to forfeit or struggle to your death. Yes it's a random meta, but that doesn't take away the fact that Imprison is fucking stupid.It's a random metagame, deal with it. I don't see anyone complaining about OHKO moves which are even more dumb.
one of the many reasons why Cradily is the besthttp://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-731376801
I got a double Explosion turn 3...
I also Perish Songed myself prior to that when I didn't have the slowest Pokemon...
please end my suffering
I get that you dislike the feature but you've already been responded to numerous times about the feasibility of removing it, and it's really just part of RNG metagames. Complaining isn't going to do anything.Turn 1 imprison. Just shows how idiotic it is
I do agree with this. I wasn't around for the original "shitmons council" ruling on it. If you're right about status moves not being able to utilize the z-effects (which makes sense), then that's even more cause for allowing them, as the majority of draws would just be entirely useless.Has Z-Metronome been observed to be overpowered? It seems like half the time it'll just do essentially nothing, because status moves called by Metronome don't get their Z-boosts, and adding extra power to a move once the rest of the time (when that move will still probably not score a KO) doesn't seem busted compared to what else can be done in the format. Losing your item for a Z-move seems a lot less potent when it won't work all of the time. Additionally, it offers some counterplay to Imprison etc, since moves that stop you using Metronome can't block the Z-version.
Obviously I'm just theorymonning and could be radically wrong.
I’ve done loads of Metronome battles on cartridge and I’m certain this is how it works.I do agree with this. I wasn't around for the original "shitmons council" ruling on it. If you're right about status moves not being able to utilize the z-effects (which makes sense), then that's even more cause for allowing them, as the majority of draws would just be entirely useless.
Oh, that makes sense. Scratch that counterplay option then.If all of your moves at the start of the turn are unusable (by Taunt, Imprison, etc.), you do not get to click the Z button for an opportunity to use Z-Metronome: in-game, selecting the Fight option in that case immediately causes you to use Struggle with no further prompts.
I’ve also been on top of or near the top of the ladder more or less since its inception, and I agree with this. Games with 3+ Magearna are not rare, and it’s scarier than Dark/Ghost because it has less counterplay options. I’ve been using Scrappy and Pixilate to get around Pokestar Spirit spam, and Scrappy in particular would deal with Steel/Ghost pretty well. Your counterplay options against Magearna are more limited because there aren’t any abilities that help deal with the resistances (it resists all of the -ate abilities except Galvanise) and it has much more offensive presence than Aegislash.I'd like to propose the banning of Magearna, speaking as someone who peaked and stayed #1 on the ladder. (Before being crushed by a 6-game loss streak to Torment and Self-Destruct. Fun.)
Aegislash (and all Steel/Ghosts but Smogonsword is the most relevant) is banned because of the typing having an amazing pool of resistances combined with a very bulky stat spread.
Fairy/Steel has the same number of resistances as Steel/Ghost and, more importantly, less weaknesses. The only weaknesses Fairy/Steel have are Fire and Ground which can be easily remedied with either Flash Fire or Levitate. Magearna has comparable bulk to Aegislash-Shield, only losing a little bit of effective HP, while also having far better offenses. Granted, it has less immunities than Steel/Ghost, losing the valuable Normal and Fighting immunities for the less valuable Dragon immunity, but if immunities mattered so much in the rules of this format then the Dark/Ghosts would be banned too, boasting immunities to three common Metronome types on top of the common type absorption abilities we see thrown in.
If Aegislash is banned, Magearna should be too. They're cut from the same cloth and Magearna honestly is better than Aegislash will ever be in this format. The bulky Steel meta is the eternal meta of Shitmons/Metro, especially without Berserk Gene to smash through them, but removing Magearna will greatly alleviate the crushing power of the strat.
I wouldn't be opposed to Celesteela or Mega Scizor being removed too for similar reasons.
Technically there is the option of running Tinted Lens to turn your 0.5x hits to 1x which possibly isn't the worst idea in a Metronome format but that's just about it, and it leaves you high and dry against MSab/Majin spam.Your counterplay options against Magearna are more limited because there aren’t any abilities that help deal with the resistances
Aegislash+Doublade+Kitsunoh are presently banned for this exact reason though.There’s no point in banning Pokémon, due to the nature of the format there will always be a certain Pokémon that is the best because of its typing and stats.
At that point, you might as well run Defiant or Competitive. One boost is enough to be far better than Tinted Lens (by doing functionally the same thing while also buffing attacks that aren’t resisted) and those abilities proc quite often in this format, so you're sacrificing a little bit of variance for quite a lot of extra potential power.Technically there is the option of running Tinted Lens to turn your 0.5x hits to 1x which possibly isn't the worst idea in a Metronome format but that's just about it, and it leaves you high and dry against MSab/Majin spam.
I'm not convinced Flash Fire is that big a threat. Sure, it’s annoying when you happen to strike at one of Magearna’s weaknesses and it doesn’t work, but fire moves aren’t *that* common and I honestly think getting around Magic Bounce is a more important use of the ability. Unless you’re using two steel types and/or Defiant/Competitive spam, the sheer amount of debuffs and statuses (particularly poison whih is just brutal) that get reflected by Bounce can make a match unwinnable.The Mold Breaker family would probably be a better choice since it'd counteract the common Flash Fire Magearna while also saving you from other powerful abilities like Magic Bounce/Lightningrod/Storm Drain.
Go 0 IV 0 EVs in speed if you really want to be a slow bro imoYOU ARE UNORIGINAL (Scizor-Mega) @ Choice Band
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Metronome
TWO MAGEARNAS = (Slowbro-Mega) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Metronome