Mienshao

Ernesto

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I agree, I ran calcs a while ago, Reckless HJK hits harder than Victini's V-create, and is only weaker than PP Medicham's HJK and Sheer Force Darm's Flare Blitz, assuming same nature, item, and type of hit.
Example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 559-658 (174.14 - 204.98%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 537-633 (167.28 - 197.19%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 514-606 (160.12 - 188.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raikou: 508-598 (158.25 - 186.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO

The biggest problem with that is that HJK has a 10% chance of missing and it can be scouted with Protect, which really hurts without Regen. Other than that, it really destroys stuff, but I dunno if it's much better than Scarf considering the latter already hits hard on most stuff.
 
I have never had any success using mienshao in uu, probably because I'm using it wrong. I use the CS set and I alway miss out on those KOs. Can someone explain to me how to use it properly?
 

dcae

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Yeah thanks for the calcs. The thing is that it can OHKO stuff CS can't, especially sturdier pokemin. That really helps on the team I'm running it on. Also its generally pretty obvious which pokes are running Protect, but I generally scout early on, hitting hard with Uturn, then smash walls later on, once movesets have een scouted. However, I feel the roles differ between the two sets and herein lies CBs superiority vs CSs superiority. I just think that Reckless has its niche, and that is on the CB set. I'll test it out further and update with my results.
 
I have never had any success using mienshao in uu, probably because I'm using it wrong. I use the CS set and I alway miss out on those KOs. Can someone explain to me how to use it properly?
Uh, what are you trying to KO? Reckless HJK revenges things like +1 Kingdra, Flygon, Raikou, and Darmanitan. It's a really good revenge killer with great speed, and people haven't realized the marvelous thing that is Aerial Ace Mienshao against Heracross. One of the best scarfers in the tier, and if you're trying to kill defensive Pokes, that's not how its supposed to be used.
 
Okay, I think I'll post the set here. It is the specially attacking set mentioned in the "Other Options" section of Mienshao's analysis, but without Calm Mind. I find Calm Mind too hard to set up on Mienshao, as it either dies on Turn 1 or is forced out on Turn 2.

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Nature: Naive (Rash is an inferior alternative)
-Aura Sphere
-Hidden Power Ice
-U-turn
-Grass Knot

The Fighting STAB is reliable and powerful, and much preferred over Focus Blast (of course you can still use it if you are passing Hone Claws boosts to it or something gimmicky like that). HP Ice is to deal with Gligar mostly, but it also hurts a lot of Pokemon fairly hard on the switch, especially Grass and Flying-types. U-turn is the "twist move." While it is standard on most sets, it is not normal on the special set, where Calm Mind usually takes this slot. It works great though, keeping momentum, dealing decent damage, and healing off Life Orb/entry hazard recoil. Lastly, Grass Knot is a great move for Milotic, Swampert, and Rhyperior, albeit not much else, but there isn't much better to put here. Naive is preferred over Rash in order to outspeed +Speed nature Mew, Victini, and Shaymin, but of course, Rash is an option.

Do you think this is viable in the long run?
 

dcae

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Personally the only time I see a special set being useful on Mienshao is for the surprise factor. If special Mienshao can't beat the counters of physical Mienshao, then imo it serves absolutely no purpose. The thing with these surprise sets is to beat the counters, such as Cofragrigus and sableye. The only thing I see this beating is Slowbro, which has its merits, but overall the sheer power of the physical sets offer more than the utility of beating one counter.
 
Personally the only time I see a special set being useful on Mienshao is for the surprise factor. If special Mienshao can't beat the counters of physical Mienshao, then imo it serves absolutely no purpose. The thing with these surprise sets is to beat the counters, such as Cofragrigus and sableye. The only thing I see this beating is Slowbro, which has its merits, but overall the sheer power of the physical sets offer more than the utility of beating one counter.
Add Milotic and Swampert, which are both 2HKOed. Mienshao just does not want to get burned (poison matters less due to U-Turn + Regenerator).
 

dcae

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Add Milotic and Swampert, which are both 2HKOed. Mienshao just does not want to get burned (poison matters less due to U-Turn + Regenerator).
I think Grass Knot 2HKOs Milotic, but yeah, I forgot Swampert as a check that gets wiped out by Special variant.

Updating on my testing of CB Reckless. I used the moves HJK, Stone Edge, U-turn, and Drain Punch. HJK hits like fifty nukes and OHKOs so many pokemon, namely Milotic, Swampert, and other normally 2HKOd walls. This set can also beat Umbreon with Drain Punch, so Protect isn't a problem. It is extremely useful as well thanks to a powerful U-turn, and is a great pokemon overall, very underrated. People were surprised when Mienshao smashed their walls to pieces with that HJK. It pairs well with Pursuit Snorlax and also Sharpedo especially. The team I've been running employs Mienshao and Rain Dance Kingdra to weaken all the opposing pokes, and finishes with Sharpedo. However, thanks to Mienshao's glorious strength, I generally beat up any team with pokemon slower than it with Mienshao alone. I definitely suggest giving it a spin, great set on him.
 
Add Milotic and Swampert, which are both 2HKOed. Mienshao just does not want to get burned (poison matters less due to U-Turn + Regenerator).
Milotic and Swampert are both 2HKOed by the standard Life Orb and Scarf sets after Stealth Rock, though. Neither of them are checks to Mienshao.
 
I find it too hard to break through Milotic without Grass Knot (especially if it is statused, due to Marvel Scale), so I made it a special variant specifically to check Milotic. Most of Swampert's STAB moves destroy Mienshao anyway if it doesn't KO it. I might run calcs to see how powerful it really is.
 
I find it too hard to break through Milotic without Grass Knot (especially if it is statused, due to Marvel Scale), so I made it a special variant specifically to check Milotic. Most of Swampert's STAB moves destroy Mienshao anyway if it doesn't KO it. I might run calcs to see how powerful it really is.
Here are the relevant calcs:

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 208-246 (51.87 - 61.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 192-226 (47.88 - 56.35%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 400-473 (99.75 - 117.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

16 Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 180-213 (66.42 - 78.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Swampert Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 241-285 (88.92 - 105.16%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even max defense Swampert cannot switch in to High Jump Kick and only offensive variants can OHKO Mienshao. Special Mienshao can OHKO, which can be useful occasionally, I guess.

For Milotic:

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 196 Def Milotic: 261-308 (66.41 - 78.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 196 Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 175-207 (44.52 - 52.67%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 196 Def Milotic: 241-285 (61.32 - 72.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 196 Def Marvel Scale Milotic: 160-190 (40.71 - 48.34%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 56+ SpD Milotic: 164-195 (41.73 - 49.61%) -- 32.03% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


0 SpA Milotic Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 130-154 (47.97 - 56.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Again Milotic cannot switch in to High Jump Kick and even if it comes in after a KO can only pray for a burn. Grass Knot fails to get a guaranteed 2HKO on RestTalk Milotic, which is the only Milotic set that will likely be statused for Marvel Scale.
 
In my personal experience, I find that on a choice scarf set, drain punch has some merit. Often in the end game on the last turn it comes down to some whether or not hi-jump kick hits. All of Mienshao's other moves are either too weak (u-turn, aerial ace, etc) or are more inaccurate (stonemiss). It's also a general failsafe move in which it comes in on the revenge kill and you don't have to clench your teeth as to whether or not Hi-Jump Kick will hit. Also if you're running reckless it helps compensate for entry hazard damage. Finally one very situational example is when using it against protect Umbreon as they love to protect on the predicted high-jump kick. Typically I prefer running a coverage move over the more or less fail safe drain punch. In the end, it really comes down to whether or not your team has troubles with Gligar or Heracross.
 
In my personal experience, I find that on a choice scarf set, drain punch has some merit. Often in the end game on the last turn it comes down to some whether or not hi-jump kick hits. All of Mienshao's other moves are either too weak (u-turn, aerial ace, etc) or are more inaccurate (stonemiss). It's also a general failsafe move in which it comes in on the revenge kill and you don't have to clench your teeth as to whether or not Hi-Jump Kick will hit. Also if you're running reckless it helps compensate for entry hazard damage. Finally one very situational example is when using it against protect Umbreon as they love to protect on the predicted high-jump kick. Typically I prefer running a coverage move over the more or less fail safe drain punch. In the end, it really comes down to whether or not your team has troubles with Gligar or Heracross.
Reckless doesn't boost Drain Punch, but you should know that right?
Besides, Drain Punch is a subpar move for Mienshao (ESPECIALLY Scarf) because it can't really take hits at all. Drain Punch is a nice move on bulky pokes such as Scrafty or Conkeldurr, for fast and strong hitters such as Mienshao, the more power the better. Relying on a 90 accuracy move is kinda eh, but this is a risk you need to take in order to be considered a threat.
 

eaglehawk

once known as smogon gay baby #4
I have never had any success using mienshao in uu, probably because I'm using it wrong. I use the CS set and I alway miss out on those KOs. Can someone explain to me how to use it properly?
I personally would use Reckless with The Scarf set. This almost ensures a OHKO on almost every relatively frail sweeper in the current meta and 2HKO some strong defensive threats. To use it, just have it come in and click HJK. Watch them die.
I guess Baton Pass over U Turn on that Calm Mind set could give it a niche
I really don't know what kind of niche CM + BP Mienshao can possibly fulfill. Mew pretty much has the monopoly over the "Baton Pass" portion of UU, and even at that Baton Pass isn't too common either (1.44% of all UU teams). Again, this concept is really just a surprise element that really just cheeses opponents.
 
I personally would use Reckless with The Scarf set. This almost ensures a OHKO on almost every relatively frail sweeper in the current meta and 2HKO some strong defensive threats. To use it, just have it come in and click HJK. Watch them die.

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Just a thought, Mienshao makes a good surprise VoltTurn with Mew who resists Psychic and beats Flying types with Frost Breath or Volt Switch while Mienshao beats the Dark types who give Mew nightmares...
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Just a thought, Mienshao makes a good surprise VoltTurn with Mew who resists Psychic and beats Flying types with Frost Breath or Volt Switch while Mienshao beats the Dark types who give Mew nightmares...
Only thing is, that core needs a partner to deal with a huge portion of Ghost-types who can handle the two. Like OTR Cofagrigus or Scarf Chandelure in some cases (Watch for Stone Edge though), maybe something like Zoroark, Sharpedo, Weavile or Honchkrow. Get that nice Dark/Fighting/Psychic action going on there.

Also, lol at Frost Breath Mew...I did some calcs, it's nothing too special that you wouldn't want to run Ice Beam or Thunderbolt over it...Azelf also can perform that role as it has access to U-Turn as well as Thunderbolt and a higher SpAtk stat than Mew has, as well as Speed. The only thing, Azelf's much frailer. But even then, Mienshao has Stone Miss to deal with flying-type switch-ins. Mienshao usually lures stuff like Gligar, Cofagrigus, Swampert, and even Heracross in some cases though, so it's not always Flying-types you should look out for.
 
I think this is a decent enough Set:

Mienshao@Fighting Gem
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Nature: Jolly
- Acrobatics
- Hi Jump Kick
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn

Usually Mienshao has issues vs ghosts types because not much hits very hard. No longer. After having OHKOed anything with Gem-boosted Hi Jump Kick, it can then use a 110 BP Acrobatics to deal a LOT of damage to ghost types that usually plague it. Other fighting types do not want to take on this set: Acrobatics OHKOes most mons without the Gem and with it, only a 5BP drop vs Aerial Ace.
Without the gem, it 2HKOes Sableye after Stealth Rock and gives it a decent attacking option.
So what do you guys think?
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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I'm on my phone right now so I can't peep the calc. Can you post some calcs of Acrobatics damage? This set looks pretty hard-hitting though you lose to ScarfCross (the only reason to use Aerial Ace).
 
This is with SR(poketron, honkalculator has no option for no item :( )
55.64% - 65.79% (148 - 175)
Will post others later, it's annoying with Poketron cuz no coverage calculator
 
110 BP Acrobatics vs 252 HP / 120 Def Sableye

128 - 151 HP Damage

42,11% - 49,67%

-> possible 2HKO after SR

Having said that, it would still be totally irrelevant to stay in against Sableye. It comes in on Acrobatics, takes a maximum of 50% and proceeds to either recover or burn you. Because of Prankster WoW, the whole 2HKO vs Sableye thing is totally irrelevant in Mienshao's case.

110 BP Acrobatics vs 252 HP Cofagrigus

85 - 100 HP Damage

26,56% - 31,25%

-> Not worth it

A flying move is generally only useful on the Scarf set as an insurance against Scarf Heracross / Virizion. On a non-scarf set, there is simply no reason to use Acrobatics at all. You'd fare better by using HP Ice for Gligar and slapping a LO on it, while having access to regenerator.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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Aw, such a letdown :[ Oh well...the set seemed appealing at first glance because I was curious how much it'd do, but I figured it wouldn't be hitting Cofag super hard.

Well, that's why Mienshao's got teammates, right? And yeah, as Warb said, a physical attacker who just barely 2HKOes Sableye after Rocks who isn't a Fire-type isn't gonna really enjoy Sableye's company.
 

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