Mildly Offensive(OU RMT)

[ElCee]

I've had this team for a reasonable amount of time now, and it's given me moderate success. I've run into some brick walls lately, though, so I'd appreciate some help fixing it up. I didn't bother with colors because that seems to be more of an annoyance than anything to a lot of folks.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Trick
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
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I’ve liked lead Jirachi for a while now. Sort of explains itself ; be a general pain in the ass, Trick the scarf to something that doesn‘t want it, and go from there. The only thing I’m considering changing is Iron Head because I really don’t like flinchaxing. :x

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 148 HP/252 Spd/108 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Recover
- Substitute
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Standard CM Latias. Sub is mostly there to guard against Pursuit, but can also block status from Blissey and other things. Also, setting up unbreakable Subs is always fun. Also helps to deal with Zapdos(who can cause this team problems otherwise) and most Infernape.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
---

The main reason I use Starmie is to dea with Heatran/Infernape, scout for status, and to spin away the SR to Gyarados and particularly Salamence more chances to switch in. STAB Surf can also put a decent dent in the standard Rotom on the switch. EVs are to outrun Infernape non-Scarf Timid Gengar.

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

An excellent cleaner. Has ample opportunity to switch in, even without running a Bulky set. I’m considering switching to BulkyGyara; I’m hesitant to run Life Orb because that makes both of my physical attackers exceptionally prone to residual damage if I can’t consistently Spin away Stealth Rock.
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Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Flash Cannon
- Explosion

Mainly there to take care of Jirachi, Skarm, Forry and Scizor(most likely revenge), it can also revenge kill an Outraging Salamence/Dragonite by blowing up on it. Used Hasty over Naïve since it’ll probably be taking more Special hits than physical from stuff like Gengar.
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Salamence (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SAtk
Naughty nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Aqua Tail
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Earthquake
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CB Salamence become one of my newer favorites because of its raw power. The ability to 2HKO Celebi and Cresselia with Outrage as they switch in makes it a great teammate for Gyarados, who can be walled/ crippled by both of them. Fire Blast for Shed Shell Skarm/Forry, Earthquake is for Scarf Heatran who might switch in once he finds out it’s not a DD set, and Aqua Tail for Hippowdon or Heatran if I don’t want to fire off a locked Earthquake. Hopefully, Salamence can take out or at least cripple something enough so that it can no longer effectively wall Gyarados.


Problems: Pursuit isn’t exactly an enormous problem because Latias has Sub to guard against it; that said, I'm still inclined to drop either Latias or Starmie. The team also has a pretty big weakness to Gengar and, to an extent, Rotom. However, removing Latias gives me a pretty significant Zapdos problem. I sort of feel the need for a spinner with two SR weaks, but I guess I could drop Starmie for something else(Swampert?). I’ve also considered a Pursuit user of my own to dispose of Rotom and Gengar, but Tyranitar has troubles with both(The burn from Rotom is more troublesome, plus his Sandstream isn‘t exactly something this team appreciates), Scizor/Heracross can't deal with Rotom-H and Weavile is…Weavile.

Thanks in advance for any advice I can get.

EDIT: I can make the descriptions longer if need be, I was just afraid of telling people stuff they already probably know. >_>

 

[MegaKick]

I honestly don't think salamence doesn't need fire blast because magnezone takes out skarmory and forretress, and even if they do have shed shell, starmie takes them out easy. Therefore, you can replace fire blast for stone edge. This gives better coverage and means you don't have to use a -def nature

 

[diinbong]

Hello Elcee.

Your team's offensive presence is certainly a threatening one, and its ability to play off resistances seems almost an example of how offensive teams should play. The sets themselves all seem to be self-explanatory (like you suggested) and decent enough, so I'd rather focus on the general structure of the team and try to solve weaknesses. For starters, you mentioned having trouble with Starmie's use; as it is, it isn't quite performing its probably originally desired task of beating Celebi/Bulky waters for Gyarados, as you are focusing too much on its defensive capabilities. I recommend putting it into a leading position with Legacy Raider's lead set, which I have personally seen being used quite effectively.

To explain using a short excerpt from the original analysis on how it is to be effectively used; "The premise of the set is quite simple. Against suicide leads and others that utilize Focus Sash, use an attacking move (usually Hydro Pump for Azelf and Infernape) to bring them down to 1 HP. These frail leads will usually try to set up Stealth Rock first turn, meaning you can now finish them off with a Rapid Spin, thus taking them out while simultaneously clearing your field of Stealth Rock for the rest of the battle. This set particularly shines on offensive teams as it allows the player to use Stealth Rock weak heavy hitters such as Salamence and Gyarados with a lot more ease. As far as spinning goes on these teams, Starmie is one of the best choices out there, as with its Speed, movepool, and Natural Cure ability, it can serve as both a respectable sweeper in its own right, as well as an emergency status absorber if need be." This can be expanded on through the link I provided, however. With Starmie now in a leading position, you basically have a free spot to play around with on your team, one preferably filling the need of Stealth Rock. You can keep Jirachi if you so desire, as its Trick+Choice Scarf will often come in handy late-game, should you either be in need of a quick revenge kill or to mess up a defensive Pokemon's / a stall team's stride. Another small nitpick I have is to make Gyarados Jolly, as most teams these days seem to rely too much on fast Electric-types like Jolteon to stop it, only to be swept off their feet after a Speed tie. This is your decision should you run into bulky counters more periodically, however.

Good luck on the team! I hope you consider some of my suggestions.

edit; I also forgot to mention that in the occasion Jirachi should be moved to a non-leading position, Wish would probably become the preferable move choice over U-turn.

 

[crynts]

If you really don't want Iron Head on Jirachi then the next best moves would be Water Pulse (confusion), Body Slam (paralysis), or Wish. I recommend Wish because it helps heal you sweepers with all the switching that your bound to do or nullify Stealth Rock damage. With Jirachi weilding the Scarf, the possibility of a faster taunter can be disregarded.

 

[mc2094]

I think you should keep Iron Head on Jirachi because it provies a reliable STAB move.

I agree with diing's suggestion. Starmie lead being able to remove rocks is very useful since sr will ruin mence due to constant switches.

 

[ToF]

So some problems I see from glancing at this team:

1. You have no switch into a Tyranitar Crunch, meaning something will probably die to CBTar, or even worse, DDTar. Jirachi doesn't cut it in my opinion.

2. Latias and Starmie are functioning in a very similar manner. You are using Starmie to cover Heatran and Infernape, both of which are covered by Latias.

3. Magnezone is outclassed in OU now in my opinion, as almost all Skarmory and Forretress run Shed Shell, Jirachi can Fire Punch back, and Scizor is dealt with by your own Gyarados.

We have a few ways of fixing this team up. To cover Tyranitar, I say add a Life Orb Scizor over Starmie. For one thing, it gives you another way of dealing with Tyranitar, but can also check Salamence locked into Outrage and revenge-kill at multiple times. Life Orb over Choice Band because you don't want to be locked into an attack and let some other set-up sweeper dismantle you. Bullet Punch / Swords Dance / U-Turn / Superpower should be a decent enough set. EV-wise, I'd just run max attack, 176 HP and the rest in speed.

For replacing Magnezone, lets consider options that are similar but work in today's metagame. Lucario would fit perfectly in this slot as a back-up priority user, and with access to Swords Dance, basically kills those same things you have issues with. Salamence would be taken care of by Scizor, and Gengar as well. With Swords Dance + Close Combat, you will be denting a lot of things, and picking off those weak mons with Extremespeed. Run the standard set of Crunch / Swords Dance / Close Combat / Extremespeed with Life Orb and a Jolly nature, maximizing attack and speed. Crunch I'd say is the better option here to deal with things like Cresselia and Celebi (though you can always stat up on them with Latias if you wish). If Gyarados switch-ins seem common to you (more likely now than before), you can opt for Stone Edge in that slot.

Everything else looks pretty decent, will just come down to how you utilize the team. Good luck.

Edit: I overlooked the Gyarados issue. You can always run Thunderpunch over something on Jirachi, maybe over Trick considering how you rely on Jirachi to revenge-kill a lot of stuff. Maybe even add Ice Punch/Fire Punch as BlueCleric mentioned in order to hit those other threats you have issues with (I'd personally say Ice Punch since Gyarados gets Scizor).

 

[XxBlueCleric.xX]

I really like this team but it seems as though Dragon Dancers tear you apart. They can outspeed your Scarfer and Starmie/Latias and 6-0 your team for the most part. (usually some things are going to die as part of sacrifice to get the Intimidate in). Jirachi should probably get more coverage on this team IMO. I'd throw Ice/Thunder Punch on there to halt a Salamence/Gyarados sweep. Also, u could go Fire Punch and put HP Ice on Magnezone. I really don't think Magnezone HAVING to Explode on Mence/Nite seems like a decent "check".

All other major threats seem to be covered, but I can see some trouble getting past a defensive Swampert. There's not much you can do against him to be honest...

I'd have to agree with Twist of Fate on Starmie doing a similar job to Latias. But if you choose to switch, bear in mind that you NEED a better Gyarados check. Starmie was at least decently close thanks to Thunderbolt.



Other than that, nice team!

 

[matzemix]

Please dont use Sub on Latias, it's very nice while having Recover,Cm,Dragon Pulse, Surf. That Movepool allowes you to hit anything.

And on Sala i would prefer a DDMence with LifeOrb. Imo after one DD it's enough for Celebi also, 2HKOs it np. And you dont have to use only 1 move..Imo CB sala sucks :P

 

[Myzozoa]

I would recommend reflect over substitute on Latias, its very defensive to run reflect, but in my opinion, defensive Latias is so good, that its practically an offensive sweeper in itself. After 2 calm minds specia attackers wont be able to do anything and physical attackers are stopped by refect (if they're faster) or OHKOed by +2 dragon pulse.

 

[LuistheNinja]

Ubers_are_awesome was right about Fire Blast. With Magnezoen dealing with all the steels then you can ditch Fire moves for rock moves to deal with threats like Zapdos and Salamence.

Good Luck!

 

[SmokingBomber465]

Recover,Cm,Dragon Pulse, Surf. That Movepool allowes you to hit anything.

Empoleon says hi.

Anyways, as a general rule, most Stealth Rockers are gone near the start of the game because rapid spin has declined. You probably will only have to rapid spin once in the match after their rock layer dies early (as most are designed to).

As such, Your gyarados fears stealth rocks less--life orb is an option again?

 

[ElCee]

Well first off, thanks to everyone for taking time to help out(especially diinbong/Twist of Fate/BlueCleric for the detailed explainations).

If I'm dropping Magnezone(leaning towards it; I HAVE noticed he kind of becomes dead weight once he kills Scizor or Skarmory except when he blows up), I'll keep the current set, but if I drop him I'll go Adamant with Stone Edge.

I do like that lead Starmie; I had originally been hesitant because Hydro Pump turned me off, but Surf still gets the job done against 252 HP/0 SpD Metagross, and being able to fend off Infernape, Heatran, Swampert, Metagross, and Mamoswine(even if you get Endeavor + Sharded by the Sash version, you can still stop the rocks from going up) at the same time is a huge asset. My question is, if I do that, should I still leave SR on Jirachi and just put him somewhere else in the team, or should I find another poke to do it? The problem there is finding place for revenge kill moves AND Stealth Rock. If I run Ice Punch/ThunderPunch/Iron Head/Stealth Rock, then my only option for setting up SR is locking myself into it(as opposed to tricking the scarf and then setting it up, although it's not an enormous issue).

I also like Twist of Fate's suggestions; I had usually been dealing with CBTar with prediction, but I really do need a better counter, because one screw-up means something is probably going to die. I like Lucario anyway, and the fact that he's a nice check to CBTar(even if it has EQ, it has to be wary of firing it off and giving two hard hitters a free switch). My only concern is that I'm open with Babiritar if I rely on Scizor for DDTar(If it has EQ for Luke), but is that even common enough to warrant worrying about?

As far as the idea of a Jirachi/Latias/Scizor/Lucario/Gyarados/Salamence team, I really do like it, but there's only a few problems I see in it. It doesn't have a way to get rid of SR if it goes up(From something like Swampert throwing them up mid-game or Heatran lead), and once they go up, Scizor can give me problems if I rely on Gyara to counter him, especially CB versions; Gyara can lose almost half his health just switching into SR and eating an Intimidated CB U-Turn(not to mention having to stare down a counter). Perhaps I should run BulkyGyara if I use him as a Scizor check?

And one last general question; I still don't have a really consitent switch to Rotom(particularly the accursed Oven); Latias can do alright(taking ~40% from 221 SPAtk Rotom and a faster CM + Recover), but it's hardly a consistent switchin, and the threat of Will-o-Wisp makes me hesitant to send Lucario in.

I'll test these suggestions soon, I've just been busy with a lot of stuff(finals for the semester coming up soon) and haven't really had time to do much, but I didn't want to just ignore this after you guys spent time to rate. >_> I'm also a bit of a sucker for theorymon. :P

Hope I didn't go tl;dr on you guys, but I figured I might as well get everything out there. Thanks again for the help!

 

[ToF]

I also like Twist of Fate's suggestions; I had usually been dealing with CBTar with prediction, but I really do need a better counter, because one screw-up means something is probably going to die. I like Lucario anyway, and the fact that he's a nice check to CBTar(even if it has EQ, it has to be wary of firing it off and giving two hard hitters a free switch). My only concern is that I'm open with Babiritar if I rely on Scizor for DDTar(If it has EQ for Luke), but is that even common enough to warrant worrying about?

As far as the idea of a Jirachi/Latias/Scizor/Lucario/Gyarados/Salamence team, I really do like it, but there's only a few problems I see in it. It doesn't have a way to get rid of SR if it goes up(From something like Swampert throwing them up mid-game or Heatran lead), and once they go up, Scizor can give me problems if I rely on Gyara to counter him, especially CB versions; Gyara can lose almost half his health just switching into SR and eating an Intimidated CB U-Turn(not to mention having to stare down a counter). Perhaps I should run BulkyGyara if I use him as a Scizor check?

And one last general question; I still don't have a really consitent switch to Rotom(particularly the accursed Oven); Latias can do alright(taking ~40% from 221 SPAtk Rotom and a faster CM + Recover), but it's hardly a consistent switchin, and the threat of Will-o-Wisp makes me hesitant to send Lucario in.

As for Tyranitar, the combination of Scizor and Jirachi will definitely beat it, as both can hit it super effective and remove the Babiri Berry. Tyranitar has become a non-issue for the team.

As for your concern with Stealth Rock, you will be hitting the opponent very hard with your offensive core, meaning there isn't much room to play defensively. You could make Gyarados a RestTalk varient if you prefer survivability, however that would somewhat deter the offensive nature of this team. Salamence is just gonna hit hard anyway, and the SR weakness is just something you will have to deal with. It is a hinderance, and if it really bothers you, you can change to a Mixmence and run Roost over Earthquake; however, I find it fine as you have now, using it as a lure to weaken the opponents counters and opening holes for Lucario / Gyarados.

As for Rotom, I'd say Latias is the safest initial switch-in, but you do have methods of hitting it hard. Salamence can 2HKO with CB Outrage, Lucario hits it hard with Crunch, and Latias can always set-up on it (watch out for Trick!). If you really find issues with taking down Rotom, feel free to change Salamence from CB to Life Orb and change the moveset to the standard Mixmence (remember Roost can always replace one of the offensive moves).