Milotic (VGC 2015)

This a thread to discuss one of my favorite Pokemon and how it can possibly be used in this season of VGC. With new move tutors and more threats out there, does Milotic stand a chance? Lets see...

Base Stats: 95/60/79/100/125/81

Abilities

Marvel Scale: Defense is increased by 50% when induced with a status (BURN, PARALYZE, SLEEP, POISON, FREEZE).
Can be pretty useful if a status does get induced but I think Milotic has plenty of bulk as is and in fast paced Double Battles, it isn't that great. But, because this ability exists, your opponents may think twice before inflicting status on Milotic.

Competitive: Raises Sp. Atk stat by two stages whenever a stat is lowered
This stuck out to me as an amazing ability to have in VGC. It's basically a special attack version of Defiant, and in my own experience, quite a lot of Bisharps have been running around lately.
Hidden Ability (Available):
Cute Charm: The opponent has a 30% chance of being induced with Attract when using an attack, that requires physical contact, against this Pokémon.
Kinda gimmicky considering that I anticipate many Pokemon being used in VGC2015 will be genderless(Legendary Pokemon).


So for now let's focus on Competitive as our main ability. The easiest way for this ability to be activated would be through an opponent's Pokemon having the Intimidate ability. What Pokemon come to mind that have this ability?

Salamence
Mawile
Gyrados
Landorus-T
Scrafty
Hitmontop
Mega Manetric
Staraptor
Krookodile
Arcanine


As we all know, Intimidate was a very popular ability to have on at least 1 Pokemon on your team in VGC 2014.

Competitive seems to be a winner.

Moves

We know that Milotic has a decent movepool from previous generations; having access to Scald for a good STAB move with that 30% Burn chance, and as any water Pokemon does, has Ice Beam. Hypnosis, Mirror Coat, and Confuse Ray come through breeding. But what interesting moves did it get through the new ORAS move tutors?

Aqua Tail
Bind
Dragon Pulse
Icy Wind
Iron Head
Iron Tail
Magic Coat
Snore
Water Pulse

Since Milotic's Attack stat is a mere base 60, we can ignore the physical attacks it gets.

But what is this? Icy Wind? This attack hits both Pokemon your opponent has in play and has a 100% chance to lower your opponents Speed stat. This can be an amazing move, especially for Pokemon partnered along side Milotic. Milotic appreciates this herself as her Speed stat is a decent base 81.

Magic Coat can also be a great move to use if you want to shut down those Pesky Prankster users and reflect any status moves you don't want hitting Milotic, especially if you are not running Marvel Scale.

Items

There are a plethora of hold items to choose from in Pokemon ORAS. Let's talk berries first.

Sitrus Berry- Restores health by 25% when health becomes 50% or lower. It turns those all important 2HKO's on Milotic into 3HKO's. A good choice since Milotic quite bulky at 95/79/125 defenses.

Custap Berry(Unreleased)- Allows the user to move first in its priority bracket when health becomes 25% or lower. This can take many players by surprise and perhaps give you the chance to pick up a needed KO.

Salac Berry- Gives +1 to Speed stat when health becomes 25% or lower. Assuming no investment and 31IVs in speed. Milotic's speed can go from 101 to 151. I consider Custap Berry to be a little more effective for speed control, if it was available..

The other berries like Kee Berry,Petaya Berry,etc. seem to be much too situational for Milotic to use. If you are using a berry, Sitrus might be the one for you.

Onto the other hold items...

Life Orb- Coming from base 100 Special Attack, Milotic can do some damage to other Pokemon, but I feel that Milotic may not necessarily have the best movepool to utilize it best. Also, if you do get that +2 from competitive, the extra damage is negligible.

Choice Specs- Same as above. Can be quite effective but doesn't really have a niche on Milotic.

Focus Sash- Milotic is quite bulky and OHKO's on her are very far and in-between.

Assault Vest- Ahh, the bulky get bulkier. Coming from base 125 Special Defense having the weakness of Grass and Electricity; which have mainly special attacks, Assault Vest can work wonders when taking on a bad match up.

EV Spread and Natures

When it comes to Natures, there are a few that can take advantage of Milotic's bulk.

Bold (+Def, -Atk)
Calm(+SpDef, -Atk)

For Trickroom Lovers:

Relaxed(+Def, -Spe)
Sassy(+SpDef,-Spe)

If you want something a little more offensive:

Modest(+SpAtk,-Atk)
Quiet(+SpAtk, -Spe)

Since Milotic has a laughable base 60 in Attack, special attacks are the way to go and the nature you use should reflect that. You can also choose to lower speed if speed isn't all that important to you or if you want to rock Milotic on a Trickroom team.

Just as a small sample, I will share my current spread with you below:

Mahvel Baybee (Milotic) (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 36 SpA / 4 SpD / 4 Speed
202/72/126/137/146/101
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Icy Wind
- Dragon Tail

Scald is a staple for STAB and possible burn chance. Ice Beam nets great damage on things that are weak to it. Icy Wind is good to support slower Pokemon. Dragon Tail is there mainly because I am forced to use attack moves because of Assault Vest. You might even force your opponent to switch in to their Intimidate Pokemon and it also allows Milotic to attack into an Aegislash's King's Shield. It is (sort of) a gimmick but you can be surprised by the results. If you don't like Dragon Tail, i would recommend Hidden Power Grass just for type coverage.

Hidden Power Fire also works great on the last move slot if you don't want Milotic getting walled by the likes of Ferrothorn or Abomasnow(thanks Cherub Agent).

Now what exactly does this spread do and why am I using it? Well...
Offensively

36+ SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 172-204 (100.5 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This calculation is without the +2 from Competitive. Consistent OHKO on a big threat.

+2 36+ SpA Milotic Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 124-147 (84.9 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Easily allows a partner to pick up the KO with a spread move. If Manetric gets burned, even better.

+2 36+ SpA Milotic Scald vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Mega Mawile: 94-112 (59.8 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pretty good damage for what it is worth.

Defensively

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Milotic: 86-104 (42.5 - 51.4%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
This is hilarious. It turns what one would expect to be a bad match up into something more of a joke. Especially when you consider the above calculation that featured Mega Manetric.

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Milotic: 66-79 (32.6 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
Sheer Force Landorus is unreleased. This is just a testament to Milotic's special bulk.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Milotic: 88-104 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
Not bad, not bad at all.


252 SpA Mega Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 216 Def Milotic: 76-91 (37.6 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Milotic: 93-109 (46 - 53.9%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
Further testament to how bulky Milotic is.

There are probably more calculations out there, and this is just a small sample.

Team Options

We know that Milotic has amazing bulk on the special side thanks to that good base 95 HP, base 125 Special Defense and the Assault Vest. Most of Milotic's threats would be Pokemon that wall Milotic because of its movepool, or Pokemon that hit hard from the physical side. What might come to mind could be...

Mega Medicham
Mega Mawile
Mega Kangaskhan
Mega Charizard X/Y
Ferrothorn

the list goes on...

It would seem a good partner for Milotic might be a Pokemon with the Intimidate ability we talked about earlier. Intimidate support provides some extra physical bulk for Milotic and other members of your team. Landorus-T has access to Intimidate for support and a good spread move in Rock Slide to help deal with opponents like Charizard Y, or Thundurus.

You should also have a Pokemon that can deal with steel types like Mawile, Aegislash, and Ferrothorn while also having a Pokemon that can deal with pesky sun teams. A good fire type can do the trick and I usually side with Chandelure, but you can use whatever you are comfortable with.

Conclusion

Milotic is one of my favorite Pokemon and I feel she may have a good role to fill in VGC2015. I hope this may influence you to at least try Milotic out this season and hopefully, you find some success. Please feel free to discuss any pros and cons to Milotic, make some new spreads, and suggestions and critique are always welcome.

P.S. This was the first time I have ever written an article on anything Pokemon related so please let me know how I did. Hopefully I can write more in the future :)
 
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I've actually planned on trying Milotic out because while it does seem great on paper, I want to see how that transfers into actual play. And yes, I found this to be written nicely for a discussion thread.
 
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Milotic: 66-79 (32.6 - 39.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
Pretty funny when you consider that Milotic goes +2 if they get the SpDef drop.

sheer force landorus isn't legal, and if it were, it wouldn't get an sdef drop due to, well, sheer force

---

secondly, i really disagree with using dragon tail, it's basically useless. hidden power fire however is a really nice move to use on it; if you look at the following calcs with your EV spread:

+2 36+ SpA Milotic Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 184-220 (101.6 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (idk ferrothorns EV spread but i assume its some sort of max hp high attack investment tank)

+2 36+ SpA Milotic Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Abomasnow: 200-236 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO (again, not sure on EVs, but you could always pump up milotics special attack a bit if mega aboma runs SpD)

+2 36+ SpA Milotic Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield in Sun: 112-132 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (your opponent may well be running the wide guard aegi + zard y combo, now instead you do triple the damage scald would do and quite happily wall both members of the core)

+2 36+ SpA Milotic Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile in Sun: 162-192 (103.1 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (should you by any chance be running zard Y along with milotic [yeah idk] you can quite happily beat mega mawile now)

the last calc is just for show really, but the former two are very big threats to milotic as they're neutral to ice, resist water, dont care about speed drops and can OHKO. you now beat them, and milotics fourth slot is just filler most of the time anyway.
 
Custap berry hasn't been released yet, so its not exactly a viable item to run.

As far as the fourth move goes, I like HP fire. If you aren't running an assault vest, recover is probably the best move.
 
Here is mine:

Milotic @ Assault Vest
Ability: Competitive
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 148 SpA / 76 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald / Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Tail / HP fire/ HP grass

This is lot more SpDef based than your Milotic and more offensive, too, but isnt nearly as bulky in physical side. Scald is preferred option, as with nice burn chance and 100% acc. However, Hydro Pump is great alternative, as +2 Milotic has ability to oneshot M-Mawile (!). Ice Beam gives you great coverage, allowing you OHKO things like Mega Mence , Lando and Garchomp. Icy Wind gives nice speed control and does actually nice dmg after +2. Last move is based on your team. Dragon Tail seems weird, but it actually has higher priority than Trick Room, so it can be nasty surprise and good way to counter Trick Room. It can also bring Intimidators onto field, giving +2 for Milotic. Hidden Power grass hits other waters, but unless its Gastrodon or Swampert, it wont hit hard. Hidden Power Fire hits Ferrothorn.

This EV spread lets you always survive Play Rough from max atk adamant M-Mawile, while 148 sp atk EVs and Modest nature allows you always OHKO 4hp Talonflame. 76 spdef EVs and AV allows you always survive 2 Thunderbolts from M-Manectric and 2 Solar Beams from Zard Y. Rest 4 EVs is moved to speed, to not waste EVs.

Calcs:

Offensive:

+2 148+ SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 162-192 (103.1 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 148+ SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 189-223 (129.4 - 152.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 148+ SpA Milotic Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Hitmontop: 136-162 (86.6 - 103.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

+2 148+ SpA Milotic Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Salamence: 172-204 (100.5 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 148+ SpA Milotic Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 188-224 (113.9 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

148+ SpA Milotic Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 104-124 (57.4 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

148+ SpA Milotic Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 156-186 (101.2 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defensive:

252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Assault Vest Milotic: 84-98 (41.5 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 76 SpD Assault Vest Milotic: 84-100 (41.5 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Milotic: 169-201 (83.6 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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Milotic this VGC is a lot like Clawitzer last VGC. A lot of versatility, and a lot of power, but needs team support.

Would love to read more about who Milotic partners well with
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Milotic this VGC is a lot like Clawitzer last VGC. A lot of versatility, and a lot of power, but needs team support.

Would love to read more about who Milotic partners well with
I'd say it's less like clawitzer and more like wigglytuff - its role is to discourage intimidates and turn your opponents' intimidators into a liability instead of a boon
 
I'd say it's less like clawitzer and more like wigglytuff - its role is to discourage intimidates and turn your opponents' intimidators into a liability instead of a boon
I think you're taking it more literally than I am. No, Clawitzer doesn't have an intimidate counter, but it's role isn't specifically only intimidate counter-- it's a bulky versatile pokemon that can counter a large part of a strong meta-game that no one would think of.
 
I like the sound of AV Milotic. Been waiting for Milotic to be a thing in VGC since it got Competitive.
Most of the Pokémon you listed that threaten it (MegaKhan, Mega Medicham, Mega Gallade, Ferrothorn, etc) are horrifically maimed by bulky Arcanine; Intimidate + Will-o-Wisp puts a damper on every physical attacker in the game bar.. Torkoal and a few Lum Berry mons. Combine this with Fire and Water being a basic, but still good, complementary combination. Arcanine and Milotic are also rather middling in Speed, and can abuse Icy Wind. Funny enough, the combination of the two makes a good resistance against the same anti-physical tactics with Milotic adoring Intimidate and Arcanine gettting a free switch with opposing WoW users, allowing you to use your own physical attackers more liberally.

imo though, Brine could be a huge tear into your foe's nuts. Super Fang partner (GOGOGO PACHIRISU) or something generally hard hitting combined with a STAB Brine is an incredible blow to take. Giant power and it doesn't miss left and right *cough Hydro Pump*, but the reliability is low if your foe has a Sitrus Berry or you can't get it below half HP very easy. Which isn't uncommon in VGC.

tl;dr Arcanine looks like a nice partner, super excited to see how Milotic fares with its new ability.
 
I like the sound of AV Milotic. Been waiting for Milotic to be a thing in VGC since it got Competitive.
Most of the Pokémon you listed that threaten it (MegaKhan, Mega Medicham, Mega Gallade, Ferrothorn, etc) are horrifically maimed by bulky Arcanine; Intimidate + Will-o-Wisp puts a damper on every physical attacker in the game bar.. Torkoal and a few Lum Berry mons. Combine this with Fire and Water being a basic, but still good, complementary combination. Arcanine and Milotic are also rather middling in Speed, and can abuse Icy Wind. Funny enough, the combination of the two makes a good resistance against the same anti-physical tactics with Milotic adoring Intimidate and Arcanine gettting a free switch with opposing WoW users, allowing you to use your own physical attackers more liberally.

imo though, Brine could be a huge tear into your foe's nuts. Super Fang partner (GOGOGO PACHIRISU) or something generally hard hitting combined with a STAB Brine is an incredible blow to take. Giant power and it doesn't miss left and right *cough Hydro Pump*, but the reliability is low if your foe has a Sitrus Berry or you can't get it below half HP very easy. Which isn't uncommon in VGC.

tl;dr Arcanine looks like a nice partner, super excited to see how Milotic fares with its new ability.
I also like a lot how Mega-Venusaur looks to compliment that duo, putting pressure on Rotom Wash, and spreading Sleep.
 
Here's my thoughts:

-You mainly want a Calm nature so you can use EVs to cover your weaknesses. It gives the most overall stats, and you can use proper EV distribution to cover its already amazing bulk so that you have almost ZILCH issues keeping it around for a good while.

-You want a Sitrus berry almost 100% of the time. I honestly can't think of a scenario where anything else would be better on Milotic. It's that good.

-Scald/Ice Beam/Icy Wind/Protect are my moves so far. Some room for other options, sure, but I think those are its main options. D. Pulse is "meh" since many Dragon-types are 4X weak to Ice, if not 2X, and Ice Beam hits harder on a neutral hit + hits more things SE anyway. Magic Coat isn't the absolute worst when you really think on it, but that's just dependent on how paranoid you are about Smeargle, really. Thundos are gonna wanna T. Bolt, not T. Wave, a Milotic. You'll probably get paralyzed or swaggered somewhere down the line, but it's hard recommending you use a move slot for the sake of bouncing back that one ailment.

-Not too sure how speed creeping works on this mon. I don't bother with it since I use Icy Wind.

-It makes a great partner, but...in a weird way. It doesn't necessarily "synergize" more than it just "does what it does", which is good on its own. It's really just a great pick for your whole team. Hard to find bad partners for it if you team build right.

Edit: However, I'd say the main thing Milotic appreciates is Intimidate. Special bulk is already on point, so Intimidate makes Milotic a powerful wall. Make sure to give your Milotic a decent deal of Sp.Atk EVs so it can do damage in these instances, imo.
 
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I have a feeling Milotic is going to be a lot better on paper than in reality. It really needs the +2 boosts because without them it's rediculously weak especially without Life Orb. All I see Milotic doing is leading with Kangaskhan a ton, but it's not stopping Rotom-W from burning Kangaskhan.
 
I have a feeling Milotic is going to be a lot better on paper than in reality. It really needs the +2 boosts because without them it's rediculously weak especially without Life Orb. All I see Milotic doing is leading with Kangaskhan a ton, but it's not stopping Rotom-W from burning Kangaskhan.
You use it for hitting super-effected or frail targets unless it gets the 2X boost. Otherwise it's mainly a tank with a burn chance, which isn't that shabby either. It can also speed control pretty well too.

Not saying it's 2 gud, but it's definitely good.
 
You use it for hitting super-effected or frail targets unless it gets the 2X boost. Otherwise it's mainly a tank with a burn chance, which isn't that shabby either. It can also speed control pretty well too.

Not saying it's 2 gud, but it's definitely good.
The role you described is done better by other pokemon. Lots of other pokemon. People who see milotic will try to avoid giving the competetive boost, making milotic quite the niche pokemon. Yeah sure it is awesome with competetive and usable for sure, but your probably better off with some other pokemon in it's place. I stand with Laurel on this one.
 
The role you described is done better by other pokemon. Lots of other pokemon. People who see milotic will try to avoid giving the competetive boost, making milotic quite the niche pokemon. Yeah sure it is awesome with competetive and usable for sure, but your probably better off with some other pokemon in it's place. I stand with Laurel on this one.
What pokemon...

1) ...is a Water-type tank that can use Scald over Hydro Miss?
2) ...doesn't force a weather change.
3) ...punishes Intimidate?
4) ...has speed control?

Milotic's niche isn't so easily filled, hence why I say it's good. If you need a tanky Water-type that isn't Politoed and isn't Rotom-W (for the sake of not having to rely on Hydro Pump), Milotic is probably your best answer. Also doesn't lose out when fighting against Excadrill like Rotom does.
 
What pokemon...

1) ...is a Water-type tank that can use Scald over Hydro Miss?
2) ...doesn't force a weather change.
3) ...punishes Intimidate?
4) ...has speed control?

Milotic's niche isn't so easily filled, hence why I say it's good. If you need a tanky Water-type that isn't Politoed and isn't Rotom-W (for the sake of not having to rely on Hydro Pump), Milotic is probably your best answer. Also doesn't lose out when fighting against Excadrill like Rotom does.
Exactly what Chipndip said. Seriously, there isnt that much bulky waters around that are common. Rotom-W and Gyara has bulk, but neither of them has similar role to Milotic. Gastrodon has some similarities, but its pretty rare these days. Suicune is only thing that comes onto my mind that has similar role to Milotic, but even then, they are still bit different mons, while Suicune is more supportive and punishes fast mons and special attackers, while Milotic is more offensive and punishes Intimidate and has access to Recover.
 

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