Mix-and-Mega — Now with Primals!

[Pikachuun]

Watching the replay and calcing something else, yeah, stats aren't behaving correctly.

Snaquaza, I'm asking you again to update the code, as it doesn't seem to be working properly on aqua, and I tested it when I last updated the pastebin and it worked fine on my end.
Also there's the fact that, as stated earlier, the species name displays whenever a Mega/Primal Pokemon displays a type change message in the most recent version...

Once again, http://pastebin.com/tZ631UfF

 

[thdhted]

Y'know, what with people complaining about magic bounce and whatnot, I think i've found the perfect counter to it.
Say hello to Mold Breaker Skarmory!

Skarmory @ Ampharosite
Ability: Sturdy-> Mold Breaker
New Stats: 65/100/160/90/90/60
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Whirlwind/ Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Taunt
- Iron Head/ Counter

i theorymoned this set in an effort to find the right pokemon with the right stats, typing, and movepool for Mold Breaker. Gyaradosite works better based on pure stats, but Steel/Dark is not the best typing to have wheras Steel/Dragon is quite good, granting helpful resists to Water, Flying, and Electric. It performs well against the sure-to-be-common -Ate spam and has nice physical bulk.

moar potentially Good Things

Azumarill @ Mawilite
Ability: Sap Sipper->Huge Power
New Stats:100/70/120/60/120/50
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Play Rough
- Superpower/Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet

It's fat and hits pretty hard with what is essentially 524 Attack. Belly Drum allows it to sweep vs. passive stuff like magic bounce suicune and more.

Jirachi @ Aggronite
Ability: Serene Grace->Filter
New Stats: 100/130/150/100/120/100
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave

Meet the bulky steel support 'mon of the future! Jirachi is pretty much the only steel type in existence that has wish, and pairs well with aggrionite's stat boosts.

 

[Ghoul King]

Medichamite doesn't add Psychic typing. No Mega Stone does, currently.

Hang out on Aqua people, get matches, make this less theory-mon-y! And post replays.

AND PLAY MATCHES.

 

[Lukethehedgehog]

Medichamite doesn't add Psychic typing. No Mega Stone does, currently.

Hang out on Aqua people, get matches, make this less theory-mon-y! And post replays.

AND PLAY MATCHES.

I noticed. I thought every Mega added the secondary type.

 

[xJownage]

Is the code fixed yet?

 

[thdhted]

Is the code fixed yet?

yeah, it should be.

While I unfortunately cannot currently play, I did make a team that might be usable:

Stall/Balance Team

Cresselia (F) @ Sablenite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Moonlight
- Psychic

Primary wincon, untauntable and bulky as all get out

Blissey (F) @ Slowbronite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice

Blissey in it's usual support role, with decent stats

Registeel @ Aggronite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Curse
- Earthquake
- Rest
Backup wincon, checks -ate spam

Mew @ Banettite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- U-turn
- Soft-Boiled
- Taunt

The thing that all HO/Stall teams fear now has prankter. RUN

Skarmory @ Ampharosite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Defog/taunt
- Roost

Provides Moldy hazards and can defog or taunt based on team choices

Kyurem @ Cameruptite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Substitute/Draco meteor/Focus Blast
- Roost
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
SubRoost Kyurem with sheer force boosted attacks. Nice and bulky. you can also forgo Sub for another attack.

A quick stall team that may be of some use to a newer player. Unfortunately I lack the skill to make a REALLY good stall team as my specialty is Offense, but stall looks fune here,so.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Stall, while seemingly underrepresented due to the serious overrepresentation of offensive Megas, however, there are many offensive Megas w/ stones that would work fantastically for stall as well. Manectite, Latiasite, gyaradosite can be good for stallbreakers, which are important for stall so you don't get out stalled, etc..

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Not to bump this thread but...

I love this meta; we need to try to get it to be OMotM. This threads been dead the last couple days, but let's not let it die for good!

Just for the sake of promoting discussion, what are some mons with some cool tools, but significant flaws (ie, base lucarios speed) preventing them from consistently succeeding that some mega stone fixes? I think a significant example could be togekiss; it's speed holds it back, and it's reliant on paraflinch shenanigans, but w/ gardevoirite, it suddenly becomes a force to be reckoned with. W/ access to nasty plot, roost, calm mind, baton pass, fire blast, hyper voice, etc., it can run a number of roles, from defogger/support, stallbreaker, or who knows what. Possibly the most significant, it's mediocre speed is increased to a much more significant 100. It's also blessed w/ great 85/95/135 bulk: way better than gard on both sides of the spectrum.

This is probably a suboptimal example; it's just the first I thought of. I wanna hear if you guys have any like that you can think of.

Serperior could be cool, too. You'd have to play it like sharpedo, but it'd be a force if you let it get going.

 

[DylanTubularK]

I think a very obvious example is Dragonite.
Dragonite is a Pokemon that struggles very hard to remain relevant at all anymore, being outclassed by the majority of Dragons outside of Salamence, it has a rough time in OU.
However, in this meta, due to its access to Extreme Speed, it can run a variety of sets, usually containing an -ate mega stone, be it Salamencite, Glalite, Pinsirite, Alatarianite, and I'm sure it could even try Gardevoirite if you were running out of -ate mega stones.

 

[Ghoul King]

Get to voting for Mix and Mega in the OMotM thread. We need votes, not just discussion!

Not to bump this thread but...

I love this meta; we need to try to get it to be OMotM. This threads been dead the last couple days, but let's not let it die for good!

Just for the sake of promoting discussion, what are some mons with some cool tools, but significant flaws (ie, base lucarios speed) preventing them from consistently succeeding that some mega stone fixes? I think a significant example could be togekiss; it's speed holds it back, and it's reliant on paraflinch shenanigans, but w/ gardevoirite, it suddenly becomes a force to be reckoned with. W/ access to nasty plot, roost, calm mind, baton pass, fire blast, hyper voice, etc., it can run a number of roles, from defogger/support, stallbreaker, or who knows what. Possibly the most significant, it's mediocre speed is increased to a much more significant 100. It's also blessed w/ great 85/95/135 bulk: way better than gard on both sides of the spectrum.

This is probably a suboptimal example; it's just the first I thought of. I wanna hear if you guys have any like that you can think of.

Serperior could be cool, too. You'd have to play it like sharpedo, but it'd be a force if you let it get going.

Speed tiers are complicated. Multiple Mega Stones lower Speed, a fair fraction provide 10-20, and then are are 30-60 increases running around. I doubt Gardevoirite Togekiss' Speed tier will be all that great, but it really depends on how the meta shapes up -for instance, that ties it with baseline Mew, but it will pull it ahead of something like Ampharosite Mew, but leave it behind, say, Gardevoirite Mew. If Mew is a highly relevant Pokemon (Which is a fairly safe assumption), that still leaves the question of which Mega Stones it drifts to in the actual metagame -not to mention the question of whether Gardevoirite Togekiss even cares about Mew's presence.

Honestly Lopunnite helps a lot of powerful Normal types, like Ursaring, between Scrappy and Fighting STAB, which is perfect coverage. One of the neater things out there is Lopunitte Linoone, which can Extreme Speed right through Ghosts without need of an -ate Ability. I'm kind of curious which Normal type will become overall king of Lopunnite use.

 

[jordanthejq12]

With Linoone having the only STAB Extremespeed outside of an -ate stone, it could probably go very far, especially when paired with something like Dragonite or Togekiss to use the -ates. Extremespeed is the new Brave Bird: powerful, easily spammable, and quite capable of ripping through entire teams.

Anyway, tell me how this sounds:

Feraligatr @ Pinsirite
Ability: Sheer Force ->Aerialite
Type: Water/Flying
Stats: 85/135/120/89/103/98
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Return
-Earthquake/Aqua Jet

Yeah, yeah, no Sheer Force. There isn't much to say here, it's an SD set, with EQ mopping up whatever you're not hitting with STABs (notably Dialga and Zekrom). You'll probably be mashing the Return button anyway. Water/Flying's an awesome type defensively and especially offensively, while Pinsirite is a nice, balanced stone, giving you pretty nice bulk alongside the offensive boosts.

 

[Alfonso Dragonlord]

What about Gyaradosite Azelf?
75/125/70/125/70/115 --> 75/155/100/135/100/115
Still keep an amazing speed, nice bulk and mixed offensive stats, and the dark type, that means STAB knock off. Also, mold braker allows him to ignore sablenite users's magic bounce and taunt and SR against them. The set may be:
Azelf @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Levitate -> Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
- Knock Off
- Explosion
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

And Banettete Breloom? Prankster spore and SD + mach punch from a base 180 attack seems really really cool.
60/130/80/60/60/70 -->60/180/90/70/80/80
Breloom @ Banettete
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance
- Spore
- Substitute / Seed Bomb / Drain Punch

 

[DylanTubularK]

What about Gyaradosite Azelf?
75/125/70/125/70/115 --> 75/155/100/135/100/115
Still keep an amazing speed, nice bulk and mixed offensive stats, and the dark type, that means STAB knock off. Also, mold braker allows him to ignore sablenite users's magic bounce and taunt and SR against them. The set may be:
Azelf @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Levitate -> Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
- Knock Off
- Explosion
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Small nitpick, but 115 speed isn't that amazing in this meta, good, but not amazing when you have 120+ being commonplace.
Granted it'd be a good stall breaker, but I think that Gyaradosite Aerodactyl would be better at beating Sablenite Blissey.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Get to voting for Mix and Mega in the OMotM thread. We need votes, not just discussion!



Speed tiers are complicated. Multiple Mega Stones lower Speed, a fair fraction provide 10-20, and then are are 30-60 increases running around. I doubt Gardevoirite Togekiss' Speed tier will be all that great, but it really depends on how the meta shapes up -for instance, that ties it with baseline Mew, but it will pull it ahead of something like Ampharosite Mew, but leave it behind, say, Gardevoirite Mew. If Mew is a highly relevant Pokemon (Which is a fairly safe assumption), that still leaves the question of which Mega Stones it drifts to in the actual metagame -not to mention the question of whether Gardevoirite Togekiss even cares about Mew's presence.

Honestly Lopunnite helps a lot of powerful Normal types, like Ursaring, between Scrappy and Fighting STAB, which is perfect coverage. One of the neater things out there is Lopunitte Linoone, which can Extreme Speed right through Ghosts without need of an -ate Ability. I'm kind of curious which Normal type will become overall king of Lopunnite use.

I agree that 100 won't be that phenomenal, but I think that rather than the speed tier being faster overall, the differences in speed will be more exaggerated, with some stuff being crazy fast, and a lot staying more or less the same. 100 may be just about average. Also, it's fast enough to outspeed a plethora of ubers.

Something I found that could be actually pretty good is Gyaradosite Trevenant. It gets ghost and dark typing + moldbreaker to laugh at the blob, It has decent recovery too, in horn leech + leech seed (+ drain punch). It's got neat 85/106/112 defenses paired w/ 140 Atk which really helps him to recover, oh, and did I mention that he's really cool?

 

[frogstomperful]

Gentlemen, I like war.

Victini @ Charizardite Y or Red Orb
Typing: no change (Psychic/Fire)
Ability: Victory Star -> Drought or Desolate Lands
Stats: 100/100/100/100/100/100 -> 100/120/100/150/130/100 (RO: 130/120 Atk/Def, 150/100 SAtk/SDef)
IVs and EVs: straight 31's for IV; EV's up to debate
Nature: very important question

Moveset
1) V-create (STAB, sun-boosted, 180 base power off base 120 or 130 Atk with no chance to be burned)
2) Bolt Strike (for Water-types)
3) Blue Flare (STAB, sun-boosted, 130 base power off base 150 SpAtk)
4) -frack if i know-

 

[Ghoul King]

Gentlemen, I like war.

Victini @ Charizardite Y or Red Orb
Typing: no change (Psychic/Fire)
Ability: Victory Star -> Drought or Desolate Lands
Stats: 100/100/100/100/100/100 -> 100/120/100/150/130/100 (RO: 130/120 Atk/Def, 150/100 SAtk/SDef)
IVs and EVs: straight 31's for IV; EV's up to debate
Nature: very important question

Moveset
1) V-create (STAB, sun-boosted, 180 base power off base 120 or 130 Atk with no chance to be burned)
2) Bolt Strike (for Water-types)
3) Blue Flare (STAB, sun-boosted, 130 base power off base 150 SpAtk)
4) -frack if i know-

Actually, Red Orb Victini is a pure Fire type, which honestly seems like a direct upgrade given that it removes Sucker Punch and Shadow Sneak weaknesses (Also you're suddenly actually resistant to Bug, if anyone cares) at the "cost" of losing resistances to Fighting and Psychic, the latter being pretty meh and even the former being potentially worth it. It's not like the set suggests Zen Headbutt/Psychic/Psyshock is worth running.

Overall I'd probably run Red Orb unless you have another Pokemon that more desperately need Red Orb. Note that Victini does get Solar Beam which provides an answer to Rock types, particularly Ground/Rock types people might conceivably run that hard-wall the rest of the set. Or if you're worried about Delta Stream and Primordial Sea switch-ins, Energy Ball and Grass Knot are both available alternatives.

I agree that 100 won't be that phenomenal, but I think that rather than the speed tier being faster overall, the differences in speed will be more exaggerated, with some stuff being crazy fast, and a lot staying more or less the same. 100 may be just about average. Also, it's fast enough to outspeed a plethora of ubers.

Something I found that could be actually pretty good is Gyaradosite Trevenant. It gets ghost and dark typing + moldbreaker to laugh at the blob, It has decent recovery too, in horn leech + leech seed (+ drain punch). It's got neat 85/106/112 defenses paired w/ 140 Atk which really helps him to recover, oh, and did I mention that he's really cool?

Outspeeding most Ubers is an excellent point I hadn't considered.

Gyaradosite Trevenant sounds pretty awesome, though I do wonder how many teams will run it when being able to force hazards through Magic Bouncers will be so important, and Trevenant doesn't do hazards. (Unbouncable leech Seed is cool, though)

And Banettete Breloom? Prankster spore and SD + mach punch from a base 180 attack seems really really cool.
60/130/80/60/60/70 -->60/180/90/70/80/80
Breloom @ Banettete
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
- Mach Punch
- Swords Dance
- Spore
- Substitute / Seed Bomb / Drain Punch

Banettite has far too many cool things you can do with it, yikes.

With Linoone having the only STAB Extremespeed outside of an -ate stone, it could probably go very far, especially when paired with something like Dragonite or Togekiss to use the -ates. Extremespeed is the new Brave Bird: powerful, easily spammable, and quite capable of ripping through entire teams.

Anyway, tell me how this sounds:

Feraligatr @ Pinsirite
Ability: Sheer Force ->Aerialite
Type: Water/Flying
Stats: 85/135/120/89/103/98
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Swords Dance
-Waterfall
-Return
-Earthquake/Aqua Jet

Yeah, yeah, no Sheer Force. There isn't much to say here, it's an SD set, with EQ mopping up whatever you're not hitting with STABs (notably Dialga and Zekrom). You'll probably be mashing the Return button anyway. Water/Flying's an awesome type defensively and especially offensively, while Pinsirite is a nice, balanced stone, giving you pretty nice bulk alongside the offensive boosts.

I'd probably run Dragon Dance over Swords Dance so you can pull ahead of other fast Pokemon and murder them before they move. You'll have solid firepower just off Aerilated STAB Return, but 98 Speed is painful.

A sneaky option for the last slot might be Superpower. It won't hit Zekrom super effectively, but Steel, Normal, etc Pokemon won't be happy to have it sprung on them. I'm not sure, but it's at least something worth thinking about.

 

[Talpr0ne]

Victini is Psychic-Fire, not Fire-Psychic. Also what's the stance on Aggronite rn? +Steel type or -secondary typing?

 

[Ghoul King]

It doesn't actually matter which typing is Victini's primary typing. In the event that an Orb or Mega Stone would add an existing typing a second time, it overwrites the other typing, whether it's primary or secondary. So any Fire type that isn't a pure Fire type becomes a pure Fire type when holding the Red Orb.

At this point I'm inclined to leave Aggronite as adding Steel typing as secondary. More stallstones that are actually good! It wasn't the original intention, but I cannot find anything backing my own interpretation so whatever.

 

[DylanTubularK]

Jirachi @ Altarianite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 228 SpD
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect / Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock / Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Return
Sorry for no picture. On mobile atm.
Steel/Fairy specially defensive Jirachi seems neat. Sadly takes up your altarianite megastone though.

 

[xJownage]

It doesn't actually matter which typing is Victini's primary typing. In the event that an Orb or Mega Stone would add an existing typing a second time, it overwrites the other typing, whether it's primary or secondary. So any Fire type that isn't a pure Fire type becomes a pure Fire type when holding the Red Orb.

At this point I'm inclined to leave Aggronite as adding Steel typing as secondary. More stallstones that are actually good! It wasn't the original intention, but I cannot find anything backing my own interpretation so whatever.

I actually remember that this interpretation is correct, back when I was modding ROMs and ISOs I remember seeing that all single-type mons actually were double of that type. That means that in the dex data, maggron is actually steel/steel by default. Therefore its mega stone overwrites its rock typing with a steel one.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

It doesn't actually matter which typing is Victini's primary typing. In the event that an Orb or Mega Stone would add an existing typing a second time, it overwrites the other typing, whether it's primary or secondary. So any Fire type that isn't a pure Fire type becomes a pure Fire type when holding the Red Orb.

At this point I'm inclined to leave Aggronite as adding Steel typing as secondary. More stallstones that are actually good! It wasn't the original intention, but I cannot find anything backing my own interpretation so whatever.

Yeah I think that's better. Actually, it sounds useful for offense, too. Set up sweepers would love it, remember how +50 defense helped to put salamence into ubers? I think it's actually S rank atm, and it has the unfortunate (defensively) flying type. Aggronite gives steel type and filter, making bulky set up really dangerous.

Frack, do you realize what you just did? You just made Megabro even more annoying. Water/ steel typing is no joke. Fortunately, it doesn't give the special attack boost, but it's so bulky, it's ridiculous. There is no way to take it down w/o stalling it or super effective stab, so let's weaken them and make it impossible to kill.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that, and just used it to troll the ladder, but stall isn't my thing.

Also, on your last post, ubers might be better than we'd expect. Obviously people are going to naturally gravitate towards using Megas cause they're cool and the center of the meta, but Lugia is as bulky as ever- as bulky as some megas- but w/ Multiscale, leftovers, and not to mention, 110 speed. Not broken, but still really good.

 

[thdhted]

Yeah I think that's better. Actually, it sounds useful for offense, too. Set up sweepers would love it, remember how +50 defense helped to put salamence into ubers? I think it's actually S rank atm, and it has the unfortunate (defensively) flying type. Aggronite gives steel type and filter, making bulky set up really dangerous.

Frack, do you realize what you just did? You just made Megabro even more annoying. Water/ steel typing is no joke. Fortunately, it doesn't give the special attack boost, but it's so bulky, it's ridiculous. There is no way to take it down w/o stalling it or super effective stab, so let's weaken them and make it impossible to kill.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that, and just used it to troll the ladder, but stall isn't my thing.

Also, on your last post, ubers might be better than we'd expect. Obviously people are going to naturally gravitate towards using Megas cause they're cool and the center of the meta, but Lugia is as bulky as ever- as bulky as some megas- but w/ Multiscale, leftovers, and not to mention, 110 speed. Not broken, but still really good.

I don't think that magabro will be all that overpowering. 95/160/100 bulk is quite good, but most of our special attackers will be able to break it even after a CM.

I think we should take some discussion to CORES, offensive, defensive, and balanced.

Alright here's a core I made for offense/ balanced teams
It's based on the sheer might of sun boosted attacks and houndoomite's raw power under the sun.

Groudon @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm/rest
Sets your sun for volcarona and anything else you want to use.
Support is reccomended to keep groudon healthy, or you can use a more defensive set with resttalk.

Victini @ Red Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn/ Trick Room
- Sloar Beam/ Blue Flare

Break walls and potentially sweep, that's red orb Victini.
Victini potentially checks virtually any exisant Blue Orb 'mon by virtue of having desolate land.calcs showing how hard Victini hits:
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 217-256 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO
Considering how bulky sablenite cresselia is that's quite good.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Registeel in Harsh Sunshine: 288-339 (79.1 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Again, Registeel is stupidly bulky with that 80/200 defense and filter. The funny thing is is that both can potenitally lose to non v-create victini if it chooses to run blue flare,

Volcarona @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flame Body
New stats:85/60/105/165/125/120
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance/ Roost
- Fire Blast/Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz/Giga Drain/ Roost
- Hidden Power [Ground]

meet a terrifying sweeper that whilst in the sun is unstopable with essentially base 240 special attack, quiver dance is if you have no more sun to abuse/ need moar power. HP Ground was chosen for the ability to beat fire types. It has decent bulk, so you can use that if you really need to take a hit that isn't aqua jet. Fiery dance can be used for the chance to bost special attack and giga drain can be used for recovery. Roost can be use in either the 1st or 3rd slot as an exchange of bulkier Vs more potential power, or if you choose to run fiery dance.

Ferrothorn @ Blue Orb
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock/ Protect

Blue Orb Ferrothorn beats pretty much anything that MIGHT want to beat a sun team (except other Ferro, but that's what victini's for). It has the added benefeit of removing your sun if it is about to run out/being abused by an opposing team. Ferro has a large amount of potential here due to phenomanal typing and decent power.

Potential additions to the core/Team:
Victini can be removed if you need another red orb user/wallbreaker.
Any Charizardite user is welcome in the team as a backup sun setter.
Wish support is extremely welcome in this core, specifically for groudon and volcarona.
Hazards are appreciated but not extremely neccesary
Hazard removal is definitely appreciated, unless you keep constant pressure on your opponent or have a magic bouncer.

This is a reasonable example of a good core that the rest of a team can be built around. Use it if you want to. Cheers!

Will post more on the core tommorrow. Done now

 

[urdrakonis]

Water/Steel isn't even that good of a defensive typing since it gives it a bunch of exploitable weaknesses. Water/Psychic actually seems a bit better since ghost and dark attacks have lower BP and will probably be less common since Knock Off is much worse here. Interestingly enough, I made an experimental Starmie (Aggronite) set under the old rules hoping to use it as a fast, bulky pivot but it got fucked over by the added steel typing.

Now I'm more inclined to use one of those fairy-bestowing stones since they have insane defensive type synergy with ground (hippo) and water (any bulky water really) types.

 

[thdhted]

^edited my post above above with a core, please rate it.

On MaestroDeSWAG's point of discussion, I think that there will always be a difficult choice between aggronite and sablenite as defnesive megastones. Add fantastic steel typing and filter? Or add lots of bulk and the fantastic magic bounce? An argument could be made for Audinite as well, because fairy typing is simply fantastic(TOO MUCH FANTASTIC) gud, and you don't lose any speed, which may be important for defenive megas that want to outrun certain things, like say gyaradosite mew. however it comes at the low low cost of a useless ability.

 

[Ghoul King]

I actually remember that this interpretation is correct, back when I was modding ROMs and ISOs I remember seeing that all single-type mons actually were double of that type. That means that in the dex data, maggron is actually steel/steel by default. Therefore its mega stone overwrites its rock typing with a steel one.

Well, since Mega Evolution is just changing the Pokemon to a different species (Like Castform, only not sucking) it's not really overwriting the Rock typing with the Steel typing in code terms, but close enough.

Yeah I think that's better. Actually, it sounds useful for offense, too. Set up sweepers would love it, remember how +50 defense helped to put salamence into ubers? I think it's actually S rank atm, and it has the unfortunate (defensively) flying type. Aggronite gives steel type and filter, making bulky set up really dangerous.

Frack, do you realize what you just did? You just made Megabro even more annoying. Water/ steel typing is no joke. Fortunately, it doesn't give the special attack boost, but it's so bulky, it's ridiculous. There is no way to take it down w/o stalling it or super effective stab, so let's weaken them and make it impossible to kill.

Maybe I shouldn't have posted that, and just used it to troll the ladder, but stall isn't my thing.

Also, on your last post, ubers might be better than we'd expect. Obviously people are going to naturally gravitate towards using Megas cause they're cool and the center of the meta, but Lugia is as bulky as ever- as bulky as some megas- but w/ Multiscale, leftovers, and not to mention, 110 speed. Not broken, but still really good.

Mega Slowbro would probably rather keep Shell Armor, honestly, not to mention its regular typing. Ghost moves are weak, the strongest Dark move (Knock Off) is irrelevant, vs Steel being vulnerable to the omnipresently awesome Earthquake and the even more powerful Close Combat.

My understanding in that Mega Salamence was a combination of hitting the right Speed tier, having overwhelming firepower in its primary attack, and having the right set of coverage moves to break through everything that walled its primary attack. I didn't follow too closely so maybe there's something that +50 Defense did for it, but I've never heard of it as a factor...

And yeah I'm sure most Ubers will find a place in the meta, it just might take some time to get past the OH SHINY factor of Megas. Maybe there's a few Ubers that can be essentially replaced by the right Pokemon with the right Mega Stone (Jirachi with Ampharosite is effectively Dialga with a better statline and arguably movepool in exchange for losing its item slot -Jirachi gets Draco Meteor!), but most of them are probably going to remain relevant, even before their item advantage.

I don't think that magabro will be all that overpowering. 95/160/100 bulk is quite good, but most of our special attackers will be able to break it even after a CM.

I think we should take some discussion to CORES, offensive, defensive, and balanced.

Alright here's a core I made for offense/ balanced teams
It's based on the sheer might of sun boosted attacks and houndoomite's raw power under the sun.

Groudon @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Stone Edge
- Hammer Arm/rest
Sets your sun for volcarona and anything else you want to use.
Support is reccomended to keep groudon healthy, or you can use a more defensive set with resttalk.

Victini @ Red Orb
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- U-turn/ Trick Room
- Sloar Beam/ Blue Flare

Break walls and potentially sweep, that's red orb Victini.
Victini potentially checks virtually any exisant Blue Orb 'mon by virtue of having desolate land.calcs showing how hard Victini hits:
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Cresselia in Harsh Sunshine: 217-256 (48.8 - 57.6%) -- 54.7% chance to 2HKO
Considering how bulky sablenite cresselia is that's quite good.
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Registeel in Harsh Sunshine: 288-339 (79.1 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Again, Registeel is stupidly bulky with that 80/200 defense and filter. The funny thing is is that both can potenitally lose to non v-create victini if it chooses to run blue flare,

Volcarona @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flame Body
New stats:85/60/105/165/125/120
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Quiver Dance/ Roost
- Fire Blast/Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz/Giga Drain/ Roost
- Hidden Power [Ground]

meet a terrifying sweeper that whilst in the sun is unstopable with essentially base 240 special attack, quiver dance is if you have no more sun to abuse/ need moar power. HP Ground was chosen for the ability to beat fire types. It has decent bulk, so you can use that if you really need to take a hit that isn't aqua jet. Fiery dance can be used for the chance to bost special attack and giga drain can be used for recovery. Roost can be use in either the 1st or 3rd slot as an exchange of bulkier Vs more potential power, or if you choose to run fiery dance.

Ferrothorn @ Blue Orb
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Stealth Rock/ Protect

Blue Orb Ferrothorn beats pretty much anything that MIGHT want to beat a sun team (except other Ferro, but that's what victini's for). It has the added benefeit of removing your sun if it is about to run out/being abused by an opposing team. Ferro has a large amount of potential here due to phenomanal typing and decent power.

Potential additions to the core/Team:
Victini can be removed if you need another red orb user/wallbreaker.
Any Charizardite user is welcome in the team as a backup sun setter.
Wish support is extremely welcome in this core, specifically for groudon and volcarona.
Hazards are appreciated but not extremely neccesary
Hazard removal is definitely appreciated, unless you keep constant pressure on your opponent or have a magic bouncer.

This is a reasonable example of a good core that the rest of a team can be built around. Use it if you want to. Cheers!
Will post more on the core tommorrow. Done now

Nifty core! Not sure I'd actually run Volcarona, though it at least does benefit from the noticeable increase to Defense Houndoomite provides. I also like Blue Orb Ferrothorn as a contributor to a Sun team, it amuses me. Alternatively you could replace it with Blue Orb Forretress to provide spinning and hazard setting, though it would need Wish support to keep up for the long haul... or you could run Blue Orb Scizor for Defog+Roost. Less bulky, but has no weaknesses at all, reliable recovery, and provides the hazard management the core needs. Not only that, but it can run U-Turn for all-around utility, leaving one last moveslot for.... I dunno, Bullet Punch for priority or something...

^edited my post above above with a core, please rate it.

On MaestroDeSWAG's point of discussion, I think that there will always be a difficult choice between aggronite and sablenite as defnesive megastones. Add fantastic steel typing and filter? Or add lots of bulk and the fantastic magic bounce? An argument could be made for Audinite as well, because fairy typing is simply fantastic(TOO MUCH FANTASTIC) gud, and you don't lose any speed, which may be important for defenive megas that want to outrun certain things, like say gyaradosite mew. however it comes at the low low cost of a useless ability.

As far as Audinite goes, it's worth commentary that anything that wants to counter certain kinds of problematic Abilities, has Skill Swap and/or Entrainment, and is a wall can run Audinite to keep the Speed, add Fairy typing and good bulk, and throw Healer onto the enemy to turn a liability into a utility! It's a bit niche, but it has potential, especially since a number of Pokemon builds will "break" when losing their Mega Ability -an -ate-based set is unhappy when Boomburst r Extreme Speed is weakened, loses STAB, and becomes the awful Normal type. Could be nifty.