M&M Mix and Mega

I have been using buzz I tried bulk up as the 4th move I never use it though its kinda pointless a better move could be maybe lung? ice punch for the freeze hax? protect? taunt but you are pretty slow and anything that you would taunt has sablite brick break to hurt blisse? but why not use super power its not stab though? dynamic punch for confusion hax? endure maybe to wait out a turn of toxic but protect does it better any moves which slow down your foe? counter is the only move that seems like it could have uses other then trying to use slowing moves such as bulldoze.


also check out this random kiss set I have used it and found success on a meme team XD surprisingly

Kiss me (Togekiss) @ Audinite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell
- Defog
- Roost
 
Alright. First post, so go easy on me guys... Just wanted to share a trick room team that I have had reasonable success with (50-13).

Fat Cat (Mew) @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat
- Explosion

Rhygarde (Rhyperior) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Outrage
- Drill Run / Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Aqua Tail
- Hammer Arm

Not Shift Gear (Magearna) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Gran-Bulls&%$ (Granbull) @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Stone Edge / Fire Punch
- Earthquake

Hoopa-Unchained (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderbolt

Steelith (Gigalith) @ Steelixite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Iron Head / Heavy Slam
- Superpower / Heavy Slam

Mew is the designated lead. Magic coat for taunt Deoxys, set up TR and boom. Stealth rock first if you know you can survive 2 hits. Mag and Hoopa set up TR again when it runs out and are bulky enough to survive almost all non super-effective hits, then hit hard with sheer-force boosted STABs and wide coverage. With the mewtwonite X Granbull gets a surprising attack boost and STAB close combat to hit those predictable steel switch ins, and also has nice coverage, along with play rough to annihilate the extremely popular Marshadow. Defense EVs are to capitalize on intimidate. Gigalith comes out once you get rid of blue/red orb users, sets up sand stream, and abuses the absurdly powerful sand force boost and boosted bulk from the steelixite. Iron head over heavy slam because there are a ton of heavy pokemon running around in this meta, and particularly for Xerneas. Lastly, Rhyperior is my ace sweeper. Barely anything can survive a STAB, tough claws 156 BP outrage from this monster, assuming those pesky fairies have been dealt with. On top of that, he boasts an excellent ground STAB stronger than EQ with a high crit chance (Or EQ if 95% accuracy is a problem), and powerful fire/water and fighting coverage to boot.

Kind of an off-meta team, but it is really fun to use and did pretty well for me. Let me know what you guys think! :)
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
Alright. First post, so go easy on me guys... Just wanted to share a trick room team that I have had reasonable success with (50-13).

Fat Cat (Mew) @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat
- Explosion

Rhygarde (Rhyperior) @ Charizardite X
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Outrage
- Drill Run / Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Aqua Tail
- Hammer Arm

Not Shift Gear (Magearna) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Gran-Bulls&%$ (Granbull) @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Stone Edge / Fire Punch
- Earthquake

Hoopa-Unchained (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse
- Thunderbolt

Steelith (Gigalith) @ Steelixite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Iron Head / Heavy Slam
- Superpower / Heavy Slam

Mew is the designated lead. Magic coat for taunt Deoxys, set up TR and boom. Stealth rock first if you know you can survive 2 hits. Mag and Hoopa set up TR again when it runs out and are bulky enough to survive almost all non super-effective hits, then hit hard with sheer-force boosted STABs and wide coverage. With the mewtwonite X Granbull gets a surprising attack boost and STAB close combat to hit those predictable steel switch ins, and also has nice coverage, along with play rough to annihilate the extremely popular Marshadow. Defense EVs are to capitalize on intimidate. Gigalith comes out once you get rid of blue/red orb users, sets up sand stream, and abuses the absurdly powerful sand force boost and boosted bulk from the steelixite. Iron head over heavy slam because there are a ton of heavy pokemon running around in this meta, and particularly for Xerneas. Lastly, Rhyperior is my ace sweeper. Barely anything can survive a STAB, tough claws 156 BP outrage from this monster, assuming those pesky fairies have been dealt with. On top of that, he boasts an excellent ground STAB stronger than EQ with a high crit chance (Or EQ if 95% accuracy is a problem), and powerful fire/water and fighting coverage to boot.

Kind of an off-meta team, but it is really fun to use and did pretty well for me. Let me know what you guys think! :)
Hello, good team and welcome to Smogon




Uxie @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat
- Trick Room
- Memento

Since Uxie is a suicide lead, and carries no recovery throughout the match, it will have to accomplish as much as possible as a lead.
Gyaradosite, while saving Uxie from nasty single Psychic-typing, allows Uxie to set Stealth Rock ignoring opposing Sablenite / Absolite users. This way, the only way to stop Uxie from setting Stealth Rock is using Taunt, which can be reflected by using Magic Coat (this should be fairly predictable since the most relevant Taunt user is Deoxys-S).
Trick Room is mandatory for the rest of your team to run rampant for couple turns, and Memento allows your next switch-in to setup on weakened foe or force a switch.
EV's should be used to maximize Uxie's Defense bulk because such spread will let it survive U-turn against Pinsirite Genesect's U-turn which is x4 effective against Uxie after Mega Evolving with Gyaradosite (Because Uxie will have higher Defense this way, Genesect will gain Sp.Atk from Download prior to Mega Evolution:

252 Atk Pinsirite Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyaradosite Uxie: 268-316 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While some people might find this inferior choice of Trick Room lead because of x4 weakness to bug, Uxie's natural bulk combined with Gyaradosite boost lets it live almost any hits. Also, Levitate lets you play around against something like Primal Groudon. I would suggest you to use this as a lead instead.

Sadly, with your current team, someone in your team will have to be sacrified every time Primal Groudon comes out from opposing team. Therefore, here is Golisopod which is still a notable threat outsides Trick Room, one of the best Primal Groudon switch-in's, and runs rampant in Trick Room with its low Speed:


Golisopod @ Blue Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
- Swords Dance

With Blue Orb granting it 50 Attack and Primordial Sea upon Primal Reversion, Golisopod hits like a truck even without a boost, and will wrect havoc on teams without Red Orb users. If you can predict a switch, set Swords Dance, and if you are low on health, use Leech Life for some health.

Aqua Jet is still necessary even though Golisopod is meant to be one of the Trick Room sweepers in your team, because it leaves Golisopod with something worthwhile to do (namely revenge killing) when you are not able to set up Trick Room.

About your Magearna, give it Volt Switch so you can bring in your sweeper reliably.


Rhyperior @ Heracronite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance

This seems like a better set to me. Outrage, while OHKOing Zygarde is sweet, may lead to you wasting your Trick Room turns by giving free switchin to fairy. Also, Heracronite provides more attack, lowers your speed so you are even faster in Trick Room, and allows your Rhyperior to use always-5-times-hitting Rock Blast. Swords Dance is there to boost the attack to apocalyptic levels on predicted switch, and you will have a chance to OHKO Sablenite Blissey after Stealth Rock damage. The third move depends on the rest of your team, and I would presonally recommend Ice Punch on top of everything so you can OHKO Zygarde which would otherwise survive a hit. Especially if you are against Pinsirite variants, you may miss your Earthquake as Zygarde gains Flying-type on Mega evo and resist Rock Blast if it decides not to.

I am not the best Mix and Mega player and council team should be able to give you better advice about your team. But it seemed like not many gave attention to your post at this moment so I stopped by. Hope this helps and good luck.
 
Hello, good team and welcome to Smogon




Uxie @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Magic Coat
- Trick Room
- Memento

Since Uxie is a suicide lead, and carries no recovery throughout the match, it will have to accomplish as much as possible as a lead.
Gyaradosite, while saving Uxie from nasty single Psychic-typing, allows Uxie to set Stealth Rock ignoring opposing Sablenite / Absolite users. This way, the only way to stop Uxie from setting Stealth Rock is using Taunt, which can be reflected by using Magic Coat (this should be fairly predictable since the most relevant Taunt user is Deoxys-S).
Trick Room is mandatory for the rest of your team to run rampant for couple turns, and Memento allows your next switch-in to setup on weakened foe or force a switch.
EV's should be used to maximize Uxie's Defense bulk because such spread will let it survive U-turn against Pinsirite Genesect's U-turn which is x4 effective against Uxie after Mega Evolving with Gyaradosite (Because Uxie will have higher Defense this way, Genesect will gain Sp.Atk from Download prior to Mega Evolution:

252 Atk Pinsirite Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyaradosite Uxie: 268-316 (75.7 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While some people might find this inferior choice of Trick Room lead because of x4 weakness to bug, Uxie's natural bulk combined with Gyaradosite boost lets it live almost any hits. Also, Levitate lets you play around against something like Primal Groudon. I would suggest you to use this as a lead instead.

Sadly, with your current team, someone in your team will have to be sacrified every time Primal Groudon comes out from opposing team. Therefore, here is Golisopod which is still a notable threat outsides Trick Room, one of the best Primal Groudon switch-in's, and runs rampant in Trick Room with its low Speed:


Golisopod @ Blue Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Liquidation
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
- Swords Dance

With Blue Orb granting it 50 Attack and Primordial Sea upon Primal Reversion, Golisopod hits like a truck even without a boost, and will wrect havoc on teams without Red Orb users. If you can predict a switch, set Swords Dance, and if you are low on health, use Leech Life for some health.

Aqua Jet is still necessary even though Golisopod is meant to be one of the Trick Room sweepers in your team, because it leaves Golisopod with something worthwhile to do (namely revenge killing) when you are not able to set up Trick Room.

About your Magearna, give it Volt Switch so you can bring in your sweeper reliably.


Rhyperior @ Heracronite
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Ice Punch / Fire Punch / Thunder Punch
- Swords Dance

This seems like a better set to me. Outrage, while OHKOing Zygarde is sweet, may lead to you wasting your Trick Room turns by giving free switchin to fairy. Also, Heracronite provides more attack, lowers your speed so you are even faster in Trick Room, and allows your Rhyperior to use always-5-times-hitting Rock Blast. Swords Dance is there to boost the attack to apocalyptic levels on predicted switch, and you will have a chance to OHKO Sablenite Blissey after Stealth Rock damage. The third move depends on the rest of your team, and I would presonally recommend Ice Punch on top of everything so you can OHKO Zygarde which would otherwise survive a hit. Especially if you are against Pinsirite variants, you may miss your Earthquake as Zygarde gains Flying-type on Mega evo and resist Rock Blast if it decides not to.

I am not the best Mix and Mega player and council team should be able to give you better advice about your team. But it seemed like not many gave attention to your post at this moment so I stopped by. Hope this helps and good luck.
Thank you for the suggestions! I think Golisopod especially will do a lot more for my team than the Gigalith. I'll have to do some experimenting...
 

MattL

I have discovered a truly remarkable CT which this box is t-
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
We all are familiar with the old mons that were good with those stones, but I'll cover some the best users out of the new Gen 7 mons.

Altarianite: Atk +40, Def +20, Sp. Atk +40, gain secondary Fairy typing and Pixilate

Celesteela @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Return
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed

Celesteela has Steel/Fairy typing with 97 / 141 / 123 / 147 / 101 / 61 stats. This would function as a pivot on bulky offense teams that has solid bulk and amazing defensive typing, but still has quite a bit of offensive presence. Lack of Lefties sucks though. The attack boosts are nice, but they're still less than 150, which for MnM is not too high, plus it's slow. That role functions better for a mon like...


Tapu Koko @ Altarianite
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Return
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Quick Attack

It retains its Electric/Fairy typing and has 70 / 155 / 105 / 135 / 75 / 130 stats. Electric Terrain boosted Thunderbolts and Pixilate boosted Returns make it a nice mixed, decently fast breaker.


Tapu Bulu is also an option, but unfortunately Grass/Fairy is not a good offensive typing, though it does of course have Fighting and Rock coverage. Tragically, Zygarde becomes Dragon/Fairy rather than Ground/Fairy but will still see use. Swellow is also usable, with 125 Attack, 115 Special Attack, and STAB Pixilate Quick Attack and Boomburst. Though every mon I mentioned gets completely shut down by Pdon so... yeah not looking as hot. At least Koko pivots out and Cele can wear it down with Seeds.

Latiosite: Atk +40, Def +20, Sp. Atk +30, Sp. Def +10, gain Levitate

Latiosite is typically inferior to Latiasite. There's honestly no Gen 7 Pokemon that would be come really good with Latiosite. Sure they would be come better, but the bar in MnM is so much higher. Some things would become marginal at best, but not something you'd want to use. Better off using another stone.

Latiasite: Atk +20, Def +30, Sp. Atk +30, Sp. Def +20, gain Levitate

Same deal as Latiosite. The more defensive counterpart, but there aren't really any Gen 7 Pokemon that really want this. The ones that do have other stones they're much better off using. Nothing introduced this gen needs Levitate and slightly more power and bulk compared to what other stones can give.

Ampharosite: +20 Atk, +20 Def, +50 Sp. Atk, +20 Sp. Def, -10 Speed, gain Dragon secondary type and Mold Breaker

Necrozma @ Ampharosite
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Moonlight

Psychic/Dragon | 97 / 127 / 121 / 177 / 109 / 69 stats. Not too many great users but Necrozma might work. A more offensive spread could be run too. Psychic Dragon is an...interesting defensive typing, but Ampharosite allows Necrozma to set up Rocks and paralyze Sablenite mons, while improving its bulk and giving it quite a bit of natural power.


Wishiwashi becomes quite bulky and strong with 45 / 160 / 150 / 190 / 150 / 20 stats and gets a nice Water/Dragon defensive typing. Its best set would be Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, U-turn, and Earthquake, so unfortunately it doesn't have recovery or better-than-situational use for Mold Breaker. Aside from that, the only new Gen 7 mons worth mentioning are Exeggutor-Alola and Drampa, which are both not good, but they are better users of the stone since they retain their typing, become acceptably bulky and very strong, don't care about the Speed drop, and can both run dual stab + Fire coverage + Sleep Powder/Glare, which Mold Breaker is useful for.
 
Last edited:

Kris

Yeehaw
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
We all are familiar with the old mons that were good with those stones, but I'll cover some the best users out of the new Gen 7 mons.

Altarianite: Atk +40, Def +20, Sp. Atk +40, gain secondary Fairy typing and Pixilate

Celesteela @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Return
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed

Celesteela has Steel/Fairy typing with 97 / 141 / 123 / 147 / 101 / 61 stats. This would function as a pivot on bulky offense teams that has solid bulk and amazing defensive typing, but still has quite a bit of offensive presence. Lack of Lefties sucks though. The attack boosts are nice, but they're still less than 150, which for MnM is not too high, plus it's slow. That role functions better for a mon like...


Tapu Koko @ Altarianite
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Return
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Quick Attack

It retains its Electric/Fairy typing and has 70 / 155 / 105 / 135 / 75 / 130 stats. Electric Terrain boosted Thunderbolts and Pixilate boosted Returns make it a nice mixed, decently fast breaker.


Tapu Bulu is also an option, but unfortunately Grass/Fairy is not a good offensive typing, though it does of course have Fighting and Rock coverage. Tragically, Zygarde becomes Dragon/Fairy rather than Ground/Fairy but will still see use. Swellow is also usable, with 125 Attack, 115 Special Attack, and STAB Pixilate Quick Attack and Boomburst. Though every mon I mentioned gets completely shut down by Pdon so... yeah not looking as hot. At least Koko pivots out and Cele can wear it down with Seeds.

Latiosite: Atk +40, Def +20, Sp. Atk +30, Sp. Def +10, gain Levitate

Latiosite is typically inferior to Latiasite. There's honestly no Gen 7 Pokemon that would be come really good with Latiosite. Sure they would be come better, but the bar in MnM is so much higher. Some things would become marginal at best, but not something you'd want to use. Better off using another stone.

Latiasite: Atk +20, Def +30, Sp. Atk +30, Sp. Def +20, gain Levitate

Same deal as Latiosite. The more defensive counterpart, but there aren't really any Gen 7 Pokemon that really want this. The ones that do have other stones they're much better off using. Nothing introduced this gen needs Levitate and slightly more power and bulk compared to what other stones can give.

Ampharosite: +20 Atk, +20 Def, +50 Sp. Atk, +20 Sp. Def, -10 Speed, gain Dragon secondary type and Mold Breaker

Necrozma @ Ampharosite
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Moonlight

Psychic/Dragon | 97 / 127 / 121 / 177 / 109 / 69 stats. Not too many great users but Necrozma might work. A more offensive spread could be run too. Psychic Dragon is an...interesting defensive typing, but Ampharosite allows Necrozma to set up Rocks and paralyze Sablenite mons, while improving its bulk and giving it quite a bit of natural power.

Wishiwashi becomes quite bulky and strong with 45 / 160 / 150 / 190 / 150 / 20 stats and gets a nice Water/Dragon defensive typing. Its best set would be Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, U-turn, and Earthquake, so unfortunately it doesn't have recovery or better-than-situational use for Mold Breaker. Aside from that, the only new Gen 7 mons worth mentioning are Exeggutor-Alola and Drampa, which are both not good, but they are better users of the stone since they retain their typing, become acceptably bulky and very strong, don't care about the Speed drop, and can both run dual stab + Fire coverage + Sleep Powder/Glare, which Mold Breaker is useful for.
that isnt how wishiwashi's mechanics work. It needs the Schooling ability to be in school form, so if you mega evolve it will have its awful stat spread with slight boosts.
 

Jirachi @ Ampharosite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Flash Cannon
- Draco Meteor
- Wish

This thing has scared me since Gen VI. Stealth Rocks you can't block, a solid Steel/Dragon typing, and nuclear Draco Meteors (and Doom Desire if you're a real weirdo). You're basically a Dialga with Wish and Doom Desire, long story short.
 
Altarianite is about to have a huge effect on the metagame. Here are a few immediate abusers from what I can see:



108/140/141/121/95/95

Zygarde now gets access to 140 attack in tandem with 96 BP STAB Extreme Speed, excellent physical bulk, and two setup moves in Dragon Dance and Coil. Dragon/Fairy is a good defensive typing, and offensively, Zygarde now gets a splashable priority STAB as well as retaining Thousand Arrows. It can run a Substitute set with Coil and two attacks, and it can also run Dragon Dance + 3 attacks. Zygarde is definitely shaking up the metagame and the list of Pokemon who can switch in after a boost or two is minimal.
Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Coil

Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance





70/150/90/155/70/90

Lucario is another abuser of 96 BP STAB Extreme Speed. However, Lucario is set apart from all other users of AteSpeed for one reason. It has access to Swords Dance, instantly doubling its mighty 150 Attack and instantly becoming a threat capable of sweeping unprepared teams. It reaches a staggering Attack stat of 876 after a single Swords Dance, and now has access to a +2 priority move as well as retaining its powerful Close Combat. Fighting and Fairy work together beautifully as far as offensive STAB goes, although it is resisted by Poison. While Lucario may seem like an insanely troublesome sweeper, it does have its faults. Defensively it is quite exploitable, possessing poor bulk by MnM standards and a whopping 5 weaknesses. Overall Lucario is going to be an instant threat in this metagame. Gen 6 Mix and Mega deemed it broken, but we shall see how it fares in this metagame, with the addition of Zygarde.
Lucario @ Altarianite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
 

Kris

Yeehaw
is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributor
Altarianite is about to have a huge effect on the metagame. Here are a few immediate abusers from what I can see:



108/140/141/121/95/95

Zygarde now gets access to 140 attack in tandem with 96 BP STAB Extreme Speed, excellent physical bulk, and two setup moves in Dragon Dance and Coil. Dragon/Fairy is a good defensive typing, and offensively, Zygarde now gets a splashable priority STAB as well as retaining Thousand Arrows. It can run a Substitute set with Coil and two attacks, and it can also run Dragon Dance + 3 attacks. Zygarde is definitely shaking up the metagame and the list of Pokemon who can switch in after a boost or two is minimal.
Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Substitute
- Coil

Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance





70/150/90/155/70/90

Lucario is another abuser of 96 BP STAB Extreme Speed. However, Lucario is set apart from all other users of AteSpeed for one reason. It has access to Swords Dance, instantly doubling its mighty 150 Attack and instantly becoming a threat capable of sweeping unprepared teams. It reaches a staggering Attack stat of 876 after a single Swords Dance, and now has access to a +2 priority move as well as retaining its powerful Close Combat. Fighting and Fairy work together beautifully as far as offensive STAB goes, although it is resisted by Poison. While Lucario may seem like an insanely troublesome sweeper, it does have its faults. Defensively it is quite exploitable, possessing poor bulk by MnM standards and a whopping 5 weaknesses. Overall Lucario is going to be an instant threat in this metagame. Gen 6 Mix and Mega deemed it broken, but we shall see how it fares in this metagame, with the addition of Zygarde.
Lucario @ Altarianite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
While Lucario is a good Extreme Speed user, it is infinitely inferior to all of the other -ate Speed Pokemon due to having the lowest Speed stat of them all, which requires it to run a Jolly nature to outspeed Adamant -ate Speed users. On top of that, it has no way of boosting its Speed like Zygarde does, meaning that even Adamant Altarianite Zygarde can outspeed it after one boost. While Lucario isn't in any means unviable, it is just wholly inferior to other -ate Speed users with the same stones as it, causing it to need to switch out against them to not get KOed, meaning that it isn't a reliable setup sweeper.
 
While Lucario is a good Extreme Speed user, it is infinitely inferior to all of the other -ate Speed Pokemon due to having the lowest Speed stat of them all, which requires it to run a Jolly nature to outspeed Adamant -ate Speed users. On top of that, it has no way of boosting its Speed like Zygarde does, meaning that even Adamant Altarianite Zygarde can outspeed it after one boost. While Lucario isn't in any means unviable, it is just wholly inferior to other -ate Speed users with the same stones as it, causing it to need to switch out against them to not get KOed, meaning that it isn't a reliable setup sweeper.
Lucario is inferior when faced against other -ate Speed users. None of the other -ate Extreme Speed users have access to Swords Dance, and while Lucario is weak to Fairy and Flying, it is able to instantly threaten more things than any other -ate user. 90 Speed may seem low, but it's enough to outspeed most defensive mons and in combination with its +2 priority Extreme Speed, I have trouble believing it is "infinitely inferior" to all of the other Extreme Speed users. Lucario does have a way of doubling its speed in Agility, so that's also wrong (even though my belief is that SD + 3 attacks is the best set.) With the right team support, Lucarionite can and does sweep teams. Another point that you yourself said is that most -Ate users choose to run Adamant, meaning running Jolly on Lucario ensures you outspeed most relevant users anyway (most noteworthy one being Zygarde).

Ghoul King summed it up perfectly in last gen's suspect test discussion.

Ghoul King said:
That's never been the basis of the argument behind Lucario being broken. Lucario hits a lot of subtle sweet spots: yeah, it's not the fastest thing. Yeah, it's not the hardest hitting thing. It's certainly not the toughest thing. But. Most things that outspeed it can't switch in reliably -they're fragile enough they can't risk being hit with a coverage move or a Close Combat. Worse yet, a fair few things that outspeed it are outright vulnerable to one or both of the preferred -atespeeds, instantly removing them as an option if they can't -atespeed it themselves. Things that are bulky enough to switch in fearlessly are usually slow and have insufficient offensive pressure to KO it before it KOs them.
This is mostly the reason Lucario got banned from Gen 6 MnM and to say it is "infinitely inferior" to other users of -ate Speed is simply false.

e: lucarionite was never banned. lucario.
 
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Kris

Yeehaw
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Lucario is inferior when faced against other -ate Speed users. None of the other -ate Extreme Speed users have access to Swords Dance, and while Lucario is weak to Fairy and Flying, it is able to instantly threaten more things than any other -ate user. 90 Speed may seem low, but it's enough to outspeed most defensive mons and in combination with its +2 priority Extreme Speed, I have trouble believing it is "infinitely inferior" to all of the other Extreme Speed users. Lucario does have a way of doubling its speed in Agility, so that's also wrong (even though my belief is that SD + 3 attacks is the best set.) With the right team support, Lucarionite can and does sweep teams. Another point that you yourself said is that most -Ate users choose to run Adamant, meaning running Jolly on Lucario ensures you outspeed most relevant users anyway (most noteworthy one being Zygarde).

Ghoul King summed it up perfectly in last gen's suspect test discussion.



This is mostly the reason Lucarionite got banned from Gen 6 MnM and to say it is "infinitely inferior" to other users of -ate Speed is simply false.
While I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm not sure what you're getting at in the second part of your post because Lucarionite =/= Lucario. Also I'm not sure why you're only targeting the part of my post where I say infinitely inferior? Infinitely is just a synonym for immensely, and while that still doesn't make it sound as great as you own it up to be, that doesn't mean that Lucario has no way of being better than the other -ate Speed users.

e: Not to be outright rude or anything, but Mix and Mega's leadership last generation was really not good at all, so this still does not show any valid points in my book.
 
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We all are familiar with the old mons that were good with those stones, but I'll cover some the best users out of the new Gen 7 mons.

Altarianite: Atk +40, Def +20, Sp. Atk +40, gain secondary Fairy typing and Pixilate

Celesteela @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Return
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed

Celesteela has Steel/Fairy typing with 97 / 141 / 123 / 147 / 101 / 61 stats. This would function as a pivot on bulky offense teams that has solid bulk and amazing defensive typing, but still has quite a bit of offensive presence. Lack of Lefties sucks though. The attack boosts are nice, but they're still less than 150, which for MnM is not too high, plus it's slow. That role functions better for a mon like...


Tapu Koko @ Altarianite
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Return
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Quick Attack

It retains its Electric/Fairy typing and has 70 / 155 / 105 / 135 / 75 / 130 stats. Electric Terrain boosted Thunderbolts and Pixilate boosted Returns make it a nice mixed, decently fast breaker.


Tapu Bulu is also an option, but unfortunately Grass/Fairy is not a good offensive typing, though it does of course have Fighting and Rock coverage. Tragically, Zygarde becomes Dragon/Fairy rather than Ground/Fairy but will still see use. Swellow is also usable, with 125 Attack, 115 Special Attack, and STAB Pixilate Quick Attack and Boomburst. Though every mon I mentioned gets completely shut down by Pdon so... yeah not looking as hot. At least Koko pivots out and Cele can wear it down with Seeds.

Latiosite: Atk +40, Def +20, Sp. Atk +30, Sp. Def +10, gain Levitate

Latiosite is typically inferior to Latiasite. There's honestly no Gen 7 Pokemon that would be come really good with Latiosite. Sure they would be come better, but the bar in MnM is so much higher. Some things would become marginal at best, but not something you'd want to use. Better off using another stone.

Latiasite: Atk +20, Def +30, Sp. Atk +30, Sp. Def +20, gain Levitate

Same deal as Latiosite. The more defensive counterpart, but there aren't really any Gen 7 Pokemon that really want this. The ones that do have other stones they're much better off using. Nothing introduced this gen needs Levitate and slightly more power and bulk compared to what other stones can give.

Ampharosite: +20 Atk, +20 Def, +50 Sp. Atk, +20 Sp. Def, -10 Speed, gain Dragon secondary type and Mold Breaker

Necrozma @ Ampharosite
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Psychic
- Moonlight

Psychic/Dragon | 97 / 127 / 121 / 177 / 109 / 69 stats. Not too many great users but Necrozma might work. A more offensive spread could be run too. Psychic Dragon is an...interesting defensive typing, but Ampharosite allows Necrozma to set up Rocks and paralyze Sablenite mons, while improving its bulk and giving it quite a bit of natural power.

Wishiwashi becomes quite bulky and strong with 45 / 160 / 150 / 190 / 150 / 20 stats and gets a nice Water/Dragon defensive typing. Its best set would be Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, U-turn, and Earthquake, so unfortunately it doesn't have recovery or better-than-situational use for Mold Breaker. Aside from that, the only new Gen 7 mons worth mentioning are Exeggutor-Alola and Drampa, which are both not good, but they are better users of the stone since they retain their typing, become acceptably bulky and very strong, don't care about the Speed drop, and can both run dual stab + Fire coverage + Sleep Powder/Glare, which Mold Breaker is useful for.
Magearna, Alolan Muk, Nihilego and Toxapex all seem decent users of Latiasite.
 
Heatran @ Latiasite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 126 Spe / 126 HP / 4 SpD
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Lava Plume / Magma Storm / Eruption
- Flash Cannon
- Dark Pulse / Dragon Pulse

91 / 110 / 136 / 160 / 126
It loses its terrible Ground weakness, and gains a decent boost, allowing it to be a bulky special sweeper.
 
Do please note that (until such a time it gets the boot) Heatran will still be gibbed by Thousand Arrows.

I give Zygarde a week. No STAB on Thousand Arrows sucks, but between Fairy's defensive superiority and the impending arrival of Species Clause (do we really need to wait for Diancite?) I don't think it's long for this metagame.
 
Aggronite is now out. What would some cool new users of it be? I was thinking about Buzzwole.
Wailord, obviously.

Praise Verlis (Wailord) @ Aggronite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

It does a reasonable job of standing up to -atespeed, and Aggronite gives all sorts of benefits for Wailord - STAB Heavy Slam, Filter, additional Atk, Def and Sp Def, and most importantly, +35kg.

For a gimmick it does some work - I'm not saying it's top tier or anything, but you might be surprised.
 
Wailord, obviously.

Praise Verlis (Wailord) @ Aggronite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

It does a reasonable job of standing up to -atespeed, and Aggronite gives all sorts of benefits for Wailord - STAB Heavy Slam, Filter, additional Atk, Def and Sp Def, and most importantly, +35kg.

For a gimmick it does some work - I'm not saying it's top tier or anything, but you might be surprised.


*Edit just so it isnt the pic.* I realize that this set is just a meme, but please don't try to justify it. It is so passive with it's 276 attack that it really can't do any damage at all.
0 Atk Aggronite Wailord Heavy Slam (40 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Altairianite Zygarde: 78-92 (21.7 - 25.6%) -- 1.3% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Aggronite Wailord Heavy Slam (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Altairianite Entei: 73-87 (19.6 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Aggronite Wailord Heavy Slam (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Altairianite Arcanine: 76-90 (23.6 - 28%) -- 85.7% chance to 4HKO
The only mon it can do a lot to is post mega lucario and genesect
0 Atk Wailord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altairianite Lucario: 330-390 (117.4 - 138.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Wailord Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Pinsirite Genesect: 150-177 (53 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But the problem that you face is that you take a lot from the coverage/stab super effective moves that these threats bring.
252 Atk Altairianite Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Wailord: 342-402 (62.8 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Just don't mega or sd on the switch and wailord is gone)
252+ Atk Altairianite Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Wailord: 178-211 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Altairianite Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Wailord: 213-252 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Arcanine Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Wailord: 228-268 (41.9 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Meanwhile those threats could be boosting up to break bast curse with howl, dd or sd.

The only thing atespeeder that wailord beats handily is genesect, and even then why would the genesect stay in when it can u-turn out into things that hardwall/beat it like pdon.

Pls dont use this its not viable
Unless ur memeing then sure have fun.
 
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RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
Wailord, obviously.

Praise Verlis (Wailord) @ Aggronite
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

It does a reasonable job of standing up to -atespeed, and Aggronite gives all sorts of benefits for Wailord - STAB Heavy Slam, Filter, additional Atk, Def and Sp Def, and most importantly, +35kg.

For a gimmick it does some work - I'm not saying it's top tier or anything, but you might be surprised.
This set isn't viable in Mix and Mega metagame. Most Metagrossite users (Kartana / Terrakion / Marshadow) have something that can always hit Water / Steel supereffectively and Lopunnite users who gain Fighting-type upon meta evo rather appreciates Steel-typing from Aggronite.

Wailord already has a terrible base defensive stats and Aggronite still leaves them on below-average level compared to Sablenite users which does much better job walling -ate users with their natural bulk.

We know this is the set from Verlisify and if you are trolling us, it hella isn't funny at all. If not, sorry for misunderstanding but be aware of the fact that Verlisify's sets are not viable in competitive Pokemon gameplay for any reason.

Sorry for condescending tone and have a good day.
 

drampa's grandpa

#sobblesquad
is a Pre-Contributor
Diancite is now out! (but not on ps yet)
(source: http://serebii.net/)
So I have this idea for a Diancite Wailord-

Um I mean Tapu Lele is now officially busted for 5 turns! We all knew this day would come.

Tapu Lele @ Diancite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Shadow Ball / Calm Mind / Psychic Terrain / maybe Taunt?

70/145/35/190/75/155
In psychic terrain you can't revenge it unless you're faster (or quick attack tapu koko;)) which is... not a ton, and it has great coverage to back up its incredibly strong Psychic STAB. Really the only thing I see holding this back from being a top-tier/possibly banworthy threat is the fact that Psychic Terrain only lasts 5 turns. And it might be one anyway t b h.
 

thesecondbest

Just Kidding I'm First
So I have this idea for a Diancite Wailord-

Um I mean Tapu Lele is now officially busted for 5 turns! We all knew this day would come.

Tapu Lele @ Diancite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Shadow Ball / Calm Mind / Psychic Terrain / maybe Taunt?

70/145/35/190/75/155
In psychic terrain you can't revenge it unless you're faster (or quick attack tapu koko;)) which is... not a ton, and it has great coverage to back up its incredibly strong Psychic STAB. Really the only thing I see holding this back from being a top-tier/possibly banworthy threat is the fact that Psychic Terrain only lasts 5 turns. And it might be one anyway t b h.
too bad metagrossite marshadow hits 165 speed :( but very strong, although lucarionite is stronger. definitely a counter to ate lucario and other espeeders (but not zygarde as it has dd, although non stab thousand arrows doesn't quite kill if you don't mega +1 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 216-255 (76.8 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO from adamant altarianite and moonblast kills back). Interesting mon. it still can't break freaking sablenite bliss though even with psyshock unless you run calm mind
 
Sticky Web existts ;)
Haha, how right you are! For those who are sceptical and are doubting this claim, allow me to give you a quick crash course on this new Bug-type move.

Sticky Web (Japanese: ねばねばネット Sticky Net) is a move introduced in Generation VI. It sets up a very sticky trap for the enemy. Once they fall into it, they lose some Speed! Poor enemy team :(. However, Flying and Levitating Pokémon are completely immune to the sticky webs. Phew! Some users of the move include:

GALVANTULA! :D


SWADLOON (It's grumpy because it doesn't like setting up Sticky Web every game... Poor Swadloon! :[)

And last but not least.. SMEARGLE!


Thank you and goodnight!
 
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drampa's grandpa

#sobblesquad
is a Pre-Contributor
Sticky Web existts ;)
If you're using Sticky Web I'd just use Lucarionite. The whole point of Diancite Lele is outspeeding almost everything (while being immune to priority ofc).

Marsh is a pain yah, but will probably not be as omnipresent now that Altarianite has been released (thank god).

Blue Orb Leavanny for webs and Pdon counter obv.... what's a Stone Edge?
 

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