I was saying that because of the insane stats.
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M&M Mix and Mega
- Thread starter xavgb
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What about those stats makes it insane? 75/142/100 bulk is decent but outclassed by any defensive walls. While 144 Sp Atk is fairly good, especially when backed by Calm Mind, the fact that Delphox is running this stone, and also isn't running Psyhock, means that Blissey walls it easily, and stalls it out with Confide. Meanwhile, another wall that easily takes care of this particular Delphox, when it has accrued a few Calm Minds, is Blue Orb Magearna, as Heart Swap easily removes the boosts. 104 is fairly average for a speed tier, and ultimately, Delphox finds itself too easily walled to really make any use of its "insane stats" you say it has.
In the future, consider this; is its stats really insane, compared to the other Pokemon that can also use that stone or similar stones to it?
Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it. Though, I could easily switch out before Magearna could use Heart Swap, and counter with Primal Groudon or Red Orb Shaymin-Sky.
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The point is that Blue Orb Magearna (though admittedly less of a common threat now that Naganadel is gone) is a complete hard-stop.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7mixandmega-1760.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7mixandmegasuspecttest-1760.txt
Usage statistics for this month are out! I'm going to showcase a few notable rises and drops (we'll be using the Suspect Ladder for this one, due to the banning of Naganadel)
Magearna: #3 -> #2 (48% usage)
Magearna had a surge in usage recently due to a role-compressing sweeper in the form of Pinsirite Magearna. Few offense teams have actual counterplay for this bar Electrics like Raikou and Tapu Koko, which are rather niche picks in the current metagame. In a more bulky offense setting, Magearna tends to wear down its checks and get momentum for the opposing team, whilst Heal Bell provides essential support for the balance teams it fits on best. Other sets are still incredibly potent, but this is the one that takes up ~20% of usage.
Groudon-Primal: #2 -> #3 (33% usage)
PDon has been slipping in recent times. Strong prep from almost every team and the introduction of offensive checks such as Lucarionite Zygarde and Salamence-Mega makes this Pokemon's life hard. Whilst it still compresses a few key roles greatly into one slot, it is unfortunately a very mediocre breaker unless running mixed SD, which cuts into its bulk and utility. Still an amazing pick regardless.
Buzzwole: #31 -> #8 (15% usage)
Buzzwole has found a solid spot on teams recently for being one of the only true counters to Zygarde. It compresses a myriad of key roles that are essential for a team: a check to Terrakion, a check to certain variants of Groudon-Primal, a check to certain Magearna variants... effectively, it answers practically any physical attacker if it doesn't have a Fire-move. And even then, some attackers can be tanked after a Bulk Up, such as Ho-oh and Entei, making it one of the better wincons for balance.
Lunala: #30 -> #9 (14% usage)
Lunala has recently seen a surge in usage due to the potency of its sub CM set - it has very few strong checks on most offensive builds due to the absence of Darks, and Blissey is forced to run Confide or Psywave in order to beat it. Whilst it doesn't check much itself, Lunala is still a threat to watch out for, especially on builds where Blissey cannot be afforded.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/gen7mixandmegasuspecttest-1760.txt
Usage statistics for this month are out! I'm going to showcase a few notable rises and drops (we'll be using the Suspect Ladder for this one, due to the banning of Naganadel)
Magearna: #3 -> #2 (48% usage)
Magearna had a surge in usage recently due to a role-compressing sweeper in the form of Pinsirite Magearna. Few offense teams have actual counterplay for this bar Electrics like Raikou and Tapu Koko, which are rather niche picks in the current metagame. In a more bulky offense setting, Magearna tends to wear down its checks and get momentum for the opposing team, whilst Heal Bell provides essential support for the balance teams it fits on best. Other sets are still incredibly potent, but this is the one that takes up ~20% of usage.
Groudon-Primal: #2 -> #3 (33% usage)
PDon has been slipping in recent times. Strong prep from almost every team and the introduction of offensive checks such as Lucarionite Zygarde and Salamence-Mega makes this Pokemon's life hard. Whilst it still compresses a few key roles greatly into one slot, it is unfortunately a very mediocre breaker unless running mixed SD, which cuts into its bulk and utility. Still an amazing pick regardless.
Buzzwole: #31 -> #8 (15% usage)
Buzzwole has found a solid spot on teams recently for being one of the only true counters to Zygarde. It compresses a myriad of key roles that are essential for a team: a check to Terrakion, a check to certain variants of Groudon-Primal, a check to certain Magearna variants... effectively, it answers practically any physical attacker if it doesn't have a Fire-move. And even then, some attackers can be tanked after a Bulk Up, such as Ho-oh and Entei, making it one of the better wincons for balance.
Lunala: #30 -> #9 (14% usage)
Lunala has recently seen a surge in usage due to the potency of its sub CM set - it has very few strong checks on most offensive builds due to the absence of Darks, and Blissey is forced to run Confide or Psywave in order to beat it. Whilst it doesn't check much itself, Lunala is still a threat to watch out for, especially on builds where Blissey cannot be afforded.
Here's a set for a sentimental favorite of mine ...
Houndoom @ Sharpedonite [Strong Jaw]
Adamant/Jolly, full Attack and Speed
== Crunch
== Fire Fang
== Thunder Fang
== Howl/Protect
I'm sure it's awful, but this mon and this stone are sentimental favorites.
Houndoom @ Sharpedonite [Strong Jaw]
Adamant/Jolly, full Attack and Speed
== Crunch
== Fire Fang
== Thunder Fang
== Howl/Protect
I'm sure it's awful, but this mon and this stone are sentimental favorites.
just dumping a team, nothing to see here
Entei @ Altarianite
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Howl
- Sacred Fire
- Stomping Tantrum
Azelf @ Red Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Nasty Plot
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform
Zygarde @ Lucarionite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 204 HP / 136 Atk / 48 SpA / 120 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Draco Meteor
- Extreme Speed
Kartana @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Frustration
- Swords Dance
Arceus-Ground @ Groundium Z
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Calm Mind
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Howl
- Sacred Fire
- Stomping Tantrum
Azelf @ Red Orb
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Nasty Plot
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform
Zygarde @ Lucarionite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 204 HP / 136 Atk / 48 SpA / 120 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Draco Meteor
- Extreme Speed
Kartana @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Frustration
- Swords Dance
Arceus-Ground @ Groundium Z
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Calm Mind
i'm bored
Kartana @ Metagrossite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Return
- Night Slash
Archeops @ Diancite
Ability: Defeatist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Head Smash
- Heat Wave
Tapu Lele @ Lucarionite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
Shuckle @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
Gigalith @ Steelixite
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Explosion
Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Return
- Night Slash
Archeops @ Diancite
Ability: Defeatist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Head Smash
- Heat Wave
Tapu Lele @ Lucarionite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
Shuckle @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Sturdy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Toxic
Gigalith @ Steelixite
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Explosion
Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
I don't feel like Earth Power should be used over Earthquake on Archeops, unless you know of a relevant target that I've missed out from using Earthquake instead of Earth Power.
Secondly, the Magearna set would probably appreciate Calm Mind and Pain Split over two of its moves.
Thirdly, Tapu Lele might appreciate Calm Mind over one of the move options, and perhaps Focus Blast over Shadow Ball specifically. Timid is also better, as Tapu Lele would appreciate being able to tie with other Lucarionite Leles. I am not aware of any KO benchmarks that Modest achieves that Timid does not, after a few boosts.
Lastly, Kartana would appreciate Swords Dance over Night Slash, as Swords Dance helps Kartana break better. Jolly is also a better nature, as it allows for ties between opposing Metagrossite Kartanas
These are just minor changes, and others might be able to suggest better team options coughcough
I don't want to make a useless post, but there it is:
The Mix&Mega meta is now totally balanced
it makes me feel good to say this because the pidgeotite meta and naga meta were obnoxious af ( without even mentioning the Skymin meta and aaaaall the previous meta since the beginning of 7G )
And for those who want a suspect test for Blissey, this mon is not a problem for the tier as we can easily use it as a setup bait for the likes of Lunala, CM Mage, Shift Gear Mage etc. and with the right prediction (double switch on Terrakion ?) you can gain an absurd amount of momentum.
For the good points of Blissey itself, it's the only viable cleric right now (no, clefable isn't good) and lose it would be the loss of the cleric role for the meta, so... no.
It satisfies me to play to a metagame where everything can be viable if played right and creativity isn't stopped by a top-tier ruled meta like 7G OU is. there is no team archetype that shines more than the other one and lets player choose freely either HO, balanced or stall and i thank the whole council to make good decisions (even if sometimes, they're pretty slow and they should had hear the community better but now we are fine :P <- i don't know if this sentence is english)
Lucarionite Zygarde and Pinsirite Magearna are the only things that annoys me a bit because it's hard to counter and it's a bit of a problem in teambuilding but it stills fine and healthly.
to talk a bit more about creativity, a meta where i built a m-kang + victini team can only be good. Seriously, every niche set can shine : see Cameruptite Manaphy, some sets of Heatran, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko or low-tier mons like Archeops, Entei (this thing is RU wtf), Golisopod, Uxie, Gastrodon... it's a real pleasure to build in this tier and playing too is fun because there's a cool community ( xavgb lov u ) ( Chazm u2 ) and it's fun to play this meta where everything is possible and a new cool meta set can pop out at any time
thanks everyone <3
remind you: it's a game, have fun there
The Mix&Mega meta is now totally balanced
it makes me feel good to say this because the pidgeotite meta and naga meta were obnoxious af ( without even mentioning the Skymin meta and aaaaall the previous meta since the beginning of 7G )
And for those who want a suspect test for Blissey, this mon is not a problem for the tier as we can easily use it as a setup bait for the likes of Lunala, CM Mage, Shift Gear Mage etc. and with the right prediction (double switch on Terrakion ?) you can gain an absurd amount of momentum.
For the good points of Blissey itself, it's the only viable cleric right now (no, clefable isn't good) and lose it would be the loss of the cleric role for the meta, so... no.
It satisfies me to play to a metagame where everything can be viable if played right and creativity isn't stopped by a top-tier ruled meta like 7G OU is. there is no team archetype that shines more than the other one and lets player choose freely either HO, balanced or stall and i thank the whole council to make good decisions (even if sometimes, they're pretty slow and they should had hear the community better but now we are fine :P <- i don't know if this sentence is english)
Lucarionite Zygarde and Pinsirite Magearna are the only things that annoys me a bit because it's hard to counter and it's a bit of a problem in teambuilding but it stills fine and healthly.
to talk a bit more about creativity, a meta where i built a m-kang + victini team can only be good. Seriously, every niche set can shine : see Cameruptite Manaphy, some sets of Heatran, Mimikyu, Tapu Koko or low-tier mons like Archeops, Entei (this thing is RU wtf), Golisopod, Uxie, Gastrodon... it's a real pleasure to build in this tier and playing too is fun because there's a cool community ( xavgb lov u ) ( Chazm u2 ) and it's fun to play this meta where everything is possible and a new cool meta set can pop out at any time
thanks everyone <3
remind you: it's a game, have fun there
Now I'm just thinking out loud, but I think Mix and Mega would really benefit from a UU style tier, because I absolutely love how much creativity MnM allows for all kinds of pokemon, but there's enough top threats that can cover most situations that we don't see more interesting picks like Altarianite Dusknoir, or Scizorite Tyrantrum
I dunno, I think it would help breath some new life into the metagame with people who are currently kind of bored with same old Magearnas, Groudons, etc.
I dunno, I think it would help breath some new life into the metagame with people who are currently kind of bored with same old Magearnas, Groudons, etc.
Mageic Master
Banned deucer.
Here you go!
Magearna @ Pinsirite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Shift Gear
- Heal Bell
- Pain Split
Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost
- Nasty Plot
[/hide
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Shift Gear
- Heal Bell
- Pain Split
Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost
- Nasty Plot
[/hide
Want to make a slight edit here.
Magearna @ Pinsirite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Shift Gear
- Heal Bell / Substitute / Explosion
- Pain Split / Substitute
(A few notes: Substitute on slot 4 should only really be used for Explosion. Iron Defense on slot 3 and 4 are also viable options for more Hyper Offensive teams, but HealSplit is arguably the best for any sort of BO / Balance team that requires an offensive cleric.
Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam / Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Roost
- Nasty Plot
(A few things to also note here is that this isn't the only coverage that Mew can run but it's the best that it's got. Psyshock / Earth Power is a good variant for 1v1ing the likes of Groudon-Primal, Psyshock / Fire Blast hits the likes of Steels that may be pesky to EP variants. SableMind is also viable with Psyshock / Ice Beam as a more utility variant that can bust through offensive answers.)
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Shift Gear
- Heal Bell / Substitute / Explosion
- Pain Split / Substitute
(A few notes: Substitute on slot 4 should only really be used for Explosion. Iron Defense on slot 3 and 4 are also viable options for more Hyper Offensive teams, but HealSplit is arguably the best for any sort of BO / Balance team that requires an offensive cleric.
Mew @ Sablenite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam / Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Roost
- Nasty Plot
(A few things to also note here is that this isn't the only coverage that Mew can run but it's the best that it's got. Psyshock / Earth Power is a good variant for 1v1ing the likes of Groudon-Primal, Psyshock / Fire Blast hits the likes of Steels that may be pesky to EP variants. SableMind is also viable with Psyshock / Ice Beam as a more utility variant that can bust through offensive answers.)
Here's the stupidest/greatest Smeargle set ever conceived
Smeargle @ Red Orb
Own Tempo
252+ Attack, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Spore
Shift Gear
V-Create
Heart Swap
After much experimentation, this was the closest I could get to an offensive Smeargle that could actually function, I like to pair it with a Trick Room user to get Spore off, and then go ham, with this strat, it's actually a decent Xerneas check, but it is still Smeargle, pretty much any decent hit, and it's down.
Own Tempo
252+ Attack, 4 SpD, 252 Spe
Spore
Shift Gear
V-Create
Heart Swap
After much experimentation, this was the closest I could get to an offensive Smeargle that could actually function, I like to pair it with a Trick Room user to get Spore off, and then go ham, with this strat, it's actually a decent Xerneas check, but it is still Smeargle, pretty much any decent hit, and it's down.
Mageic Master
Banned deucer.
OMG, did you just post that after we discussed in the om room. It still is not viable in any way
nah I've had this on my silly ideas team for some time, and while it's definitely flawed; it's a very, interesting niche
What happens if a Regirock mega-evolves with slowbronite? Can it have 270 base def or is it keeped to 255? (know that's useless but it's just to test out game mechanics)
It gets capped
K so idk why but I've had a growing obsession with Purugly of late and thought it could work as an offensive pivot...? Like maybe?
(Literally idc I will build a team around it if I have to like I don't think you understand)
Anyway here's my set. I'm pretty new to the meta so I'm open to stone suggestions:
Purugly
*insert mega stone here*
Fake Out
Knock Off
Play Rough
U-Turn
Thanks in advance!
(Literally idc I will build a team around it if I have to like I don't think you understand)
Anyway here's my set. I'm pretty new to the meta so I'm open to stone suggestions:
Purugly
*insert mega stone here*
Fake Out
Knock Off
Play Rough
U-Turn
Thanks in advance!
Mageic Master
Banned deucer.
Maybe an altarianite set with frustration or return instead of play rough would work. Night slash is better than knock off, because knock off is virtually useless in MnM. That’s just my thoughts on purugly, even though it has barely any viability.
Durrr... I should have thought of that hahah. Knock Off was pretty dumb lol :P
I was thinking maybe Lopunite as its mega stone? Thoughts on that?
Edit: just read your point about Altarianite. nvm about Lopunite :)
Also considered running Rain Dance over Night Slash as a weather setter pivot for a teammate with Swampertite. Again, thoughts?
There are probably better choices for that role, including base Pelipper because it auto-sets it with access to U-turn.
True. Nvm so it's outclassed then...
*edits team*
BUT I SWEAR I WILL FIND PURUGLY A NICHE IF IT'S THE LAST THING I DO!
*edits team*
BUT I SWEAR I WILL FIND PURUGLY A NICHE IF IT'S THE LAST THING I DO!