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The leaders of this forum are April, dhelmise, and Giagantic. The moderators of this forum are Chessking345, KaenSoul, kenn, Ransei, QT, and Tea Guzzler.
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M&M Mix and Mega
- Thread starter QT
- Start date
Can someone send me a sample?
With the internal Ceruledge vote resulting in a DNB, Mix and Mega is now running a tiering survey to gather community feedback on the current metagame! Almost everything is on the table right now, so this is your chance to help shape the tiering direction moving forward. We will keep it open for about a week, so please respond ASAP!
>> Click Here to take the Survey <<
>> Click Here to take the Survey <<
anyone else think the arceus plates should let a pokemon retain their original ability? or at least let stone restricted mons use them?
a couple fun (bad) concept teams that can maintain a rank above 1500 on ladder but still need some work, as well as some fun sets that lowkey suck but can be used with decent success
deoxys defense+zapdos concept team https://pokepast.es/4b554a302841691c
the idea is that the power level of the meta has slowly diminished over time making dod more and more appealing as a lead hazard setter and
thunder wave spammer, and zapdos is the best all encompassing tusk and corv answer to maintain hazards once up
sticky webs https://pokepast.es/6f33212b11184ec4
not much to say here, 1 webber, 1 zapdos to prevent webs removal+ 4 concept sets that really abuse webs. if i had to pick one mon to go itd be
urshifu, espeed weak mons cant sweep consistently on webs
now for my personal favorite bad sets
The Destroyer (Polteageist) @ Aggronite
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 164 Def / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Strength Sap
all fear teacup, destroyer of worlds. aggronite makes the set as it can still handle espeed revenge killing attempts pretty well at minus 1 defense
Stranger Danger (Drifblim) @ Slowbronite/Sablenite/Aggronite
Ability: Aftermath
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest OR Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Defog
- Strength Sap
can also run a surprisingly scarry cm sweeper set. this is the most viable of these bad sets, especially since the aggronite reversion removes its electric weakness and grants it a fairy resist letting it sit on eleki
Chicken (Kyurem-White) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor/Freeze Dry
best coverage of any mon in the tier byfar, if only it was faster or not fairy weak
Abomination (Bruxish) @ Diancite
Ability: Dazzling
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Wave Crash
- Psychic Fangs
- Flip Turn/Ice Fang
King Pengu (Empoleon) @ Latiosite
Ability: Competitive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def OR 252 Atk 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Ice Spinner
- Roost
Lucy (Lucario) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 76 Def / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Upper Hand
upper hand=lol. get rekt eleki
deoxys defense+zapdos concept team https://pokepast.es/4b554a302841691c
the idea is that the power level of the meta has slowly diminished over time making dod more and more appealing as a lead hazard setter and
thunder wave spammer, and zapdos is the best all encompassing tusk and corv answer to maintain hazards once up
sticky webs https://pokepast.es/6f33212b11184ec4
not much to say here, 1 webber, 1 zapdos to prevent webs removal+ 4 concept sets that really abuse webs. if i had to pick one mon to go itd be
urshifu, espeed weak mons cant sweep consistently on webs
now for my personal favorite bad sets
The Destroyer (Polteageist) @ Aggronite
Ability: Weak Armor
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 164 Def / 252 SpA / 92 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Shadow Ball
- Stored Power
- Strength Sap
all fear teacup, destroyer of worlds. aggronite makes the set as it can still handle espeed revenge killing attempts pretty well at minus 1 defense
Stranger Danger (Drifblim) @ Slowbronite/Sablenite/Aggronite
Ability: Aftermath
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest OR Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Defog
- Strength Sap
can also run a surprisingly scarry cm sweeper set. this is the most viable of these bad sets, especially since the aggronite reversion removes its electric weakness and grants it a fairy resist letting it sit on eleki
Chicken (Kyurem-White) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Flare
- Earth Power
- Draco Meteor/Freeze Dry
best coverage of any mon in the tier byfar, if only it was faster or not fairy weak
Abomination (Bruxish) @ Diancite
Ability: Dazzling
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Wave Crash
- Psychic Fangs
- Flip Turn/Ice Fang
King Pengu (Empoleon) @ Latiosite
Ability: Competitive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def OR 252 Atk 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Ice Spinner
- Roost
Lucy (Lucario) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Inner Focus
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 76 Def / 180 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Close Combat
- Upper Hand
upper hand=lol. get rekt eleki
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Mix and Mega Survey Results
Hello everyone, MnM Survey results are now here! 38 responses this time, with 21 falling into the qualified group. Thanks for responding everyone! [I deleted 2 responses where the user said they were in OMPL while they're not, don't do this. You're expected to give us genuine answers]
Enjoyment
Competitiveness and Balance
Ceruledge
Urshifu-Rapid
Garganacl
Raging Bolt
Last Respects
Solgaleo Retest
More than half of the playerbase thinks it's best it remains banned [both qualified and general], but they would not oppose a retest. Full support is a minority, but a retest is not off the table.
Secondary Retest Options
Gholdengo has received decent support for a retest, which is interesting. Discussions on Gholdengo on the forums and/or discord would be appreciated.
Comments
And that's the end. To quickly summarize, these are the elements that received the most support (and are going to be the priority of the council):
Hello everyone, MnM Survey results are now here! 38 responses this time, with 21 falling into the qualified group. Thanks for responding everyone! [I deleted 2 responses where the user said they were in OMPL while they're not, don't do this. You're expected to give us genuine answers]
Enjoyment
- Qualified: 7.24/10
- General: 7.34/10
Competitiveness and Balance
- Qualified: 6.57/10
- General: 6.82/10
Ceruledge
- Qualified: 3.67/5
- General: 3.24/5
Urshifu-Rapid
- Qualified: 2.95/5
- General: 2.89/5
Garganacl
- Qualified: 2.76/5
- General: 2.76/5
Raging Bolt
- Qualified: 2.76/5
- General: 2.5/5
Last Respects
- Qualified: 3.48/5
- General: 3.68/5
Solgaleo Retest
Secondary Retest Options
Comments
- Urshifu-Single-Strike
- Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
- Red Orb
- Magearna
- Koraidon - 2
- Gengar - 2
- Mewtwo
- Terastallization
- Manaphy
- Kyogre - 2
- Zacian
- Flutter Mane
- Dialga - 2
- Palkia
- Reshiram
And that's the end. To quickly summarize, these are the elements that received the most support (and are going to be the priority of the council):
- Ceruledge
- Last Respects
- Solgaleo
- Gholdengo
I can't lie I do not see Last Respects going one bit. I'll try to break it down in 3 quick parts for those that are less aware of Last Respect's mediocrity.
1) Everything is Fatter
This really shouldn't come as a surprise with how common Sablenite, physdef Eternatus, and Arceus formes are, but things are quite fat here. Teams can slap on a Sablenite mon or, in a pinch, a bulky Plate/Memory/mask user (generally Arceus but I've already used Ting-Lu and Roaring Moon + created the ever-present HearthTusk set), but these are generally SIGNIFICANTLY bulkier than even most Ubers bar the aforementioned Arceus. What should also be noted is that the few Ubers mons in regular play that have high bulk generally either do not like investing in the optimal defensive stat to handle Last Respects or are weak to the move anyway; something which is not the case here, seen most obviously with Eternatus. There are other, more restrictive, walls for Last Respects to break through, but those will be touched upon in section two. Talking about section two,
2) Ceruledge's effect on the meta
It should be no secret that Ceruledge, especially Lucarionite Ceruledge, is incredibly hard to handle. Ceruledge is so hard to handle, in fact, that teams are trying to take advantage of otherwise niche sets/Pokemon like Mandibuzz and Gyaradosite Pecharunt or Ceruledge's limited Poltergeist PP with Arceus-Water and Eternatus. Now, there's quite a key theme here, and you get extra credit if you get it right. What do all of these have in common when regarding Last Respects, specifically Last Respects Basculegion (because the others are terrible)? They all aren't 2HKOed by the Basculegion duo's Water-type moves and can survive max power Last Respects with ease! This also doesn't take into consideration the near-permanence of -ate Speed, especially Regieleki (who generally will outspeed anyway) and Dragonite (who can OHKO without effort). In fact, the best playstyle for Last Respects, Rain, is at its all-time low since the ban of Red Orb and Choice Scarf and Mega sets have been iffy since before the start of DLC2. This also coincides with opportunity cost, which other Ghost-types have less of. Specifically,
3) Ceruledge, Arceus-Ghost, and Spectrier do more in 90% of games
Yes, it shouldn't be ignored just how strong Choice Band-boosted or Adaptability-boosted Last Respects is, but the high cost for it to get going highly restricts the move's value over Ceruledge and Co's ability to fire off powerful attacks immediately. Ceruledge is already potentially on the chopping block, Arceus-Ghost is incredibly hard to remove while being respectably powerful into everything bar Gyaradosite Pecharunt and especially Sablenite Mandibuzz, and Spectrier has incredible immediate power and terrifying amounts of set flexibility despite its lack of coverage that is only limited by what the set decides to cut back on. In comparison, Last Respects Basculegion takes time to get going, has little bulk, is only decently fast at best, and only actually starts having proper effects at the very end of the game where other cleaners would be more flexible, such as Dragonite and Spectrier. It is very rare for Last Respects to actually be the correct choice on a team and then properly clean games.
Overall, Last Respects comes at such a high cost that other Pokemon provide more value overall that makes such a high-maintenance pick incredibly unreliable in a comparatively bulky meta littered with checks and counters.
1) Everything is Fatter
This really shouldn't come as a surprise with how common Sablenite, physdef Eternatus, and Arceus formes are, but things are quite fat here. Teams can slap on a Sablenite mon or, in a pinch, a bulky Plate/Memory/mask user (generally Arceus but I've already used Ting-Lu and Roaring Moon + created the ever-present HearthTusk set), but these are generally SIGNIFICANTLY bulkier than even most Ubers bar the aforementioned Arceus. What should also be noted is that the few Ubers mons in regular play that have high bulk generally either do not like investing in the optimal defensive stat to handle Last Respects or are weak to the move anyway; something which is not the case here, seen most obviously with Eternatus. There are other, more restrictive, walls for Last Respects to break through, but those will be touched upon in section two. Talking about section two,
2) Ceruledge's effect on the meta
It should be no secret that Ceruledge, especially Lucarionite Ceruledge, is incredibly hard to handle. Ceruledge is so hard to handle, in fact, that teams are trying to take advantage of otherwise niche sets/Pokemon like Mandibuzz and Gyaradosite Pecharunt or Ceruledge's limited Poltergeist PP with Arceus-Water and Eternatus. Now, there's quite a key theme here, and you get extra credit if you get it right. What do all of these have in common when regarding Last Respects, specifically Last Respects Basculegion (because the others are terrible)? They all aren't 2HKOed by the Basculegion duo's Water-type moves and can survive max power Last Respects with ease! This also doesn't take into consideration the near-permanence of -ate Speed, especially Regieleki (who generally will outspeed anyway) and Dragonite (who can OHKO without effort). In fact, the best playstyle for Last Respects, Rain, is at its all-time low since the ban of Red Orb and Choice Scarf and Mega sets have been iffy since before the start of DLC2. This also coincides with opportunity cost, which other Ghost-types have less of. Specifically,
3) Ceruledge, Arceus-Ghost, and Spectrier do more in 90% of games
Yes, it shouldn't be ignored just how strong Choice Band-boosted or Adaptability-boosted Last Respects is, but the high cost for it to get going highly restricts the move's value over Ceruledge and Co's ability to fire off powerful attacks immediately. Ceruledge is already potentially on the chopping block, Arceus-Ghost is incredibly hard to remove while being respectably powerful into everything bar Gyaradosite Pecharunt and especially Sablenite Mandibuzz, and Spectrier has incredible immediate power and terrifying amounts of set flexibility despite its lack of coverage that is only limited by what the set decides to cut back on. In comparison, Last Respects Basculegion takes time to get going, has little bulk, is only decently fast at best, and only actually starts having proper effects at the very end of the game where other cleaners would be more flexible, such as Dragonite and Spectrier. It is very rare for Last Respects to actually be the correct choice on a team and then properly clean games.
Overall, Last Respects comes at such a high cost that other Pokemon provide more value overall that makes such a high-maintenance pick incredibly unreliable in a comparatively bulky meta littered with checks and counters.
Tiering Announcement
Ceruledge has been banned from Mix and Mega! But there's a twist: we are suspecting it right after to see whether or not it really deserves to be banned. Why are we doing it this way instead of simply suspecting it? The answer: we want something to change while OMPL is on. We want players to have a feel of post-Ceruledge-ban metagame in OMPL setting and decide their suspect vote accordingly.
We are not considering taking action on any other element; it’s clear from the survey and discussion in OMCord that Ceruledge is the primary concern. The suspect post will contain in-depth reasoning, but to explain this action briefly: Ceruledge is one of the strongest wallbreakers in the metagame and is very difficult to wall, especially after setting up with Swords Dance. Recently, sets like Latiosite and Diancite (Destiny Bond) have also emerged, potentially taking down traditional answers like Arceus-Ground and Pecharunt. This suspect will decide whether Ceruledge's presence is needed in the metagame or if the strain it puts on teambuilding and in-game tactics is too much.
Enjoy
Edit: Suspect is up https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...t-15-dancing-in-the-flames-ceruledge.3767707/
Ceruledge has been banned from Mix and Mega! But there's a twist: we are suspecting it right after to see whether or not it really deserves to be banned. Why are we doing it this way instead of simply suspecting it? The answer: we want something to change while OMPL is on. We want players to have a feel of post-Ceruledge-ban metagame in OMPL setting and decide their suspect vote accordingly.
We are not considering taking action on any other element; it’s clear from the survey and discussion in OMCord that Ceruledge is the primary concern. The suspect post will contain in-depth reasoning, but to explain this action briefly: Ceruledge is one of the strongest wallbreakers in the metagame and is very difficult to wall, especially after setting up with Swords Dance. Recently, sets like Latiosite and Diancite (Destiny Bond) have also emerged, potentially taking down traditional answers like Arceus-Ground and Pecharunt. This suspect will decide whether Ceruledge's presence is needed in the metagame or if the strain it puts on teambuilding and in-game tactics is too much.
Enjoy
Edit: Suspect is up https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...t-15-dancing-in-the-flames-ceruledge.3767707/
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The suspect test votes have started coming in, and as a result, Ceruledge will remain banned. The suspect will stay up for a bit longer so everyone who hasn’t voted yet gets a chance, but it is no longer possible for unbanning Ceruledge to get a majority of votes.
Career Ended and Time2Bonk have elected to step down as members of Council. I thank them for all the work they've done so far. zastra is staying on, and will be joining me as a co-leader of Mix and Mega.
We should be updating resources shortly, starting with viability rankings; if you have thoughts on placements you would like us to take into account, please feel free to post them in the resources thread!
We should be updating resources shortly, starting with viability rankings; if you have thoughts on placements you would like us to take into account, please feel free to post them in the resources thread!
Landorus-Therian @ Mewtwonite X
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
this set for landorus-therian is broke, 1 swords dance, and mega evolve, will even 1 hit pokemon that are neutral and resisted against rock or ground
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
this set for landorus-therian is broke, 1 swords dance, and mega evolve, will even 1 hit pokemon that are neutral and resisted against rock or ground
This is actually a deceptively bad set despite the seemingly high Attack stat thanks to the metagame surrounding Lando (and also the Speed stat being horrible), I'll explain why.
Basically, it comes down to two factors. 1) Lucarionite with Gravity or Smack Down does this but just completely better since the only viable Flying-types are either Mandibuzz (which will just avoid the 2HKO and takes equally as much from EQ) or are Ground-weak after Gravity. 2) is that the Fighting typing is just really bad in the meta, not to mention Lopunnite just being better because it gives Speed. The current meta has threats like Tough Claws Urshifu, Levitate Magearna, Eternatus, Adaptability Raging Bolt that actually outspeeds this set, etc etc, but most importantly -ate boosted Extreme Speed users. Extreme Speed is the centerpiece of the meta right now, and you need a good reason to run something that is weak to Extreme Speed, especially Altarianite Extreme Speed. Landorus has no reason to do this because Lucarionite hits harder, is faster, and lacks this weakness.
I do like Landorus right now though, and would advise you to try this instead:
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Lucarionite
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Gravity / Smack Down
- Stealth Rock
[]Sample Teams
(Updated as of Aug 21, 2025 | Submissions Open)[/]
Hyper OffenseIf you're not comfortable with using the same sample teams everyone else does, or you feel your opponent already knows what to expect, don’t worry! Each team now has an Alternate Options section. These are small changes you can make to suit your own style, try out fresh ideas, or catch opponents off guard. Feel free to experiment—the main idea of the team stays the same, but these tweaks keep your play more flexible and fun. Enjoy!
Not sure what sets to use for these alternate Pokemon? You can find the sets HERE (Scroll down / Ctrl + F and click on the Pokemon you want sets for—under 'Pokemon with Strategies')
If you want to know the pros and cons of these alternate options, feel free to DM me.
-->
-->
-->
(Rusted Sword) &
-->
-->
-->
Bulky Offense
(Altarianite)
-->
-->
(Rocky Helmet)
/
/
Calm Mind --> Future Sight / Diancite --> Absolite
(Metagrossite/Aerodactylite/Aggronite)
Balance
Taunt --> Will-O-Wisp / Substitute
Stall
N/A
(These 2 are essentially variations of the same team)
A few other stall Pokemon for you to experiment with: Tyranitarite Garganacl, Rocky Helmet Alomomola, Ditto, Arceus (Normal)
Sample teams have been updated, thanks for submitting everyone!
ssnl builds, every round I tried to make something new as I find it p fun to build for the tier, think last respects should be banned just cuz of its lame fish nature and maybe retesting gholdengo? but idk or rlly care meta seems p good rn
- this team genuinely sucks
- arc should just be bu waterfall instead of claw or zap blorb instead of absol
Cores are pretty similar, tried to get double espeed + absol on every build bc that combo is broken. I think my favorites of these are the kyurem build, double dark hstack, and the idef arc fairy, tho the etern spread should be the later more defensive variants. Also tried to borrow a few more Ubers sets bc people have already thought of good sets there so might as well steal. Pins>Alt dnite most of the time bc of moth, mon is super strong rn but definitely more balanced of a fire compared to ceru.
- this team genuinely sucks - arc should just be bu waterfall instead of claw or zap blorb instead of absolCores are pretty similar, tried to get double espeed + absol on every build bc that combo is broken. I think my favorites of these are the kyurem build, double dark hstack, and the idef arc fairy, tho the etern spread should be the later more defensive variants. Also tried to borrow a few more Ubers sets bc people have already thought of good sets there so might as well steal. Pins>Alt dnite most of the time bc of moth, mon is super strong rn but definitely more balanced of a fire compared to ceru.
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NEWS
Following the recent council apps, we are excited to announce some new additions to the Mix and Mega Council! Please welcome SammyCe123, RoFnA, and SpaceSpeakers to council! Huge thanks to everyone who applied and showed interest in helping the tier grow.
Following the recent council apps, we are excited to announce some new additions to the Mix and Mega Council! Please welcome SammyCe123, RoFnA, and SpaceSpeakers to council! Huge thanks to everyone who applied and showed interest in helping the tier grow.
Please, please do not open this if you want to avoid any leaks or spoilers regarding Legends ZA.
I put together this graphic to visualize how these new mega stones could shake things up.
Please note that the ability on Mega-Starmie is SPECULATION. Also, Zygarde seems to only gain 70 BST. We do not have an explanation for this at the current moment.
Please note that the ability on Mega-Starmie is SPECULATION. Also, Zygarde seems to only gain 70 BST. We do not have an explanation for this at the current moment.
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you forgot to include the type changes
Fixed
What are we thinking in terms of implementing the new Mega stones for MnM? Since we don't have abilities confirmed yet, are we going to wait until Champions comes out? Or could we have it be that these Mega stones keep the user's base ability / the mega pokemon's base abilities? I would love to be able to play around with these, even if it is just on a side server :D
They probably won't be implemented due to being a spinoff without multiplayer pvp, it'd have to be a petmod version of mnm.
But there is actually multiplayer PVP in Legends ZA. or do you mean 1v1 ? Because even in the normal series, we have battles with up to 4 players... Anyway, being a spinoff does not mean anything anymore with the addition of the official Pokémon Showdown from Pokémon Company lol When they officially launch Champions we will have the info for their abilities, and then we can implement it into MnM or even before Champions if they add their abilities to the data of Home. Hopefully, we don't have to wait that much until we can enjoy this new megas!
We haven't crossed that bridge yet but if it is technically unable to be tested in a singles environment then we can't implement it as otherwise we are making changes that would make us not an OM but rather a petmod as we abide by in-game mechanics in addition to a concept (in this case being able to mega anything not banned or restricted). I never said we 100% won't add them rather "probably won't" as there is policy issues we'd have to discuss before anything and I don't want to get peoples hopes up for nothing.