Mono-Attacking Kingdra

Deleted User 44841

Hello there!

Well, this is my second ever Rate My Team thread here. My first was dismal, to be honest. However, I've been using this team for a week.

I don't normally post on Smogon, but I feel I need help.

Problematic Pokémon

- Weavile - Even just throwing it in as a lead, I can't counter it, or revenge kill it. Heatran could OHKO, but Low Kick is an easy 2HKO, or 1HKO, depending on the set. Nothing else resists it. Rotom can't burn it before it gets 2HKO'd with Night Slash, partially due to no safe switch-in, and partially due to Will-o-Wisp's dismal 55 accuracy.

- Electivire - I can't really counter this. Although Rotom, yet again, can burn it, and Heatran can Earth Power it, people tend to bring it out late-game, when Heatran's gone down already, and nothing else poses any threat to it. Due to having 2 STAB Thunderbolts flying around, he has an easy switch-in aswell.


The Team

Spr_4p_407_m.png

Roserade (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Leaf Storm
- Toxic Spikes
- Sleep Powder

Although once it gets 2 Dragon Dances in there (which is rare, normally I just use 1), Outrage can pose a threat, bulky waters do tend to pose a problem with Kingdra, but generally they can't do much back. Toxic Spikes fixes this problem by causing them a "badly poisoned" status, which severely reduces their longetivity, unless they use Rest, in which case Kingdra just keeps using Dragon Dance until it can cope.

Hidden Power Ice was there for Dragonite leads, but I've hardly seen any since Salamence was voted Uber. Hidden Power Fire may be a superior option for enemy Roserade and Steel-type pokémon. Leaf Storm is an obvious power STAB, and Sleep Powder helps render slower leads useless while I lay down the spikes (and then often proceed to Leaf Storm KO the enemy Swampert).

---

Spr_4p_485.png

Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock

Life Orb was recommended, however Shuca Berry can enable me to take care of the opposing Heatran with my own Earth Power, while mine is merely left injured and itemless. Sadly, Specs variants still OHKO.

Heatran also helps prevent a revenge-kill on Kingdra from opposing Heatran, Flygon and (apparently, according to the summary) Dragonite.

---

Spr_4p_462.png

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Explosion
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

One of the main causes of my Electivire problem, here.

Obviously, without Substitute, Skarmory can phaze out Kingdra. However, Magnezone will deal with it if it doesn't have Shed Shell. And if it does, Magnezone will get it the next time.
Empoleon is another potential stopper - a SubPetaya set could benefit from a STAB Outrage helping knock down the HP bar a little. Magnezone traps it and KO's it before it can get going.

---

Spr_4p_479W.png

Rotom-w @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Will-o-wisp
- Pain Split

Rotom is here as a spin-blocker, and with the Substitute + Pain Split combination, can stall out opposition, particularly useful when Toxic Spikes are up to help him. This also scares off the aforementioned pokemon Magnezone is there to counter. 1 on 1 he can generally dispose of Starmie aswell. Physical attackers such as Machamp can be dealt a crippling blow with Will-o-wisp, and whilst it could draw in a Heatran, Vaporeon and my Heatran can deal with it.

---

Spr_4h_134.png

Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Surf
- Protect
- Ice Beam

Wish brings added survivability to my main Dragonite counter, as he's bulkier than Salamence, it often isn't a 1HKO. Vappy also provides team healing, and with the Wish + Protect combination, he can stall out opponents as the Toxic Spikes take hold, although Crocune can set up thanks to my stupidity, obviously it can't damage Vaporeon, so the set-up would be wasted.

---

Spr_4h_230.png

Kingdra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 244 HP/112 Atk/152 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

The brilliant think about this set is that it resembles a normal RestTalk Dragon Dance set, however these EVs give more attacking power.

The bonus to Sleep Talk is Outrage doesn't get locked in, but 90% of the time I end up with 6 Dragon Dances instead. I used to have a Celebi, however it was removed, and so this was chosen over SubDance set, as I had no way of dealing with crippling status conditions.

---


So, there's the team. What's disastrously wrong (as is normal with my teams), how do I fix it, oh, and is there anything good about it?
 
Hello Amore very nice team you have there I have a few suggestions that may help you out!

Pretty solid team it has no major weaknesses just a few suggestions should be thought of and a few move sets can use work. A minor problem I noted is this team has problem with rest suicune especially if roserade is out of play and considering that is the lead it wont last very long. Even toxic spikes wont rest suicune because once it uses rest poison will be cleared until cune switches in again. It doesn't look like it but you sure do, it can easily set up on scarf magnezones hp fire or flash cannon and abuse vaporeon knowing that you don't have roar. The only real check you have to it is vaporeon but suicune will win the pp stall do to pressure and would chip away some health with ice beam. The only option for you is to blow up with both magnezone and heatran placing you at a bad very bad situation.

I would suggest you use roar on vaporeon because this allows you to phaze out potential threats such as rest-cune and even curse swampert who also manages to take advantage of your team if it has two attacking moves and not just waterfall. Hp electric could also be viable but roar definitely helps you handle those threats better.

Props to you for using kingdra! but I don't approve of you using rest talk kingdra sure it doesn't get locked in outrage while using sleep talk. It still gets walled by steels and loses to any heatran with dragon pulse or explosion. I would suggest you use chesto berry kingdra which gives you two dragon dances easily and doesn't limit your coverage by only allowing you to use outrage instead you get the additional waterfall letting you attack steels having a better late game sweep.

This leaves you with no pokemon being able to deal with "crippling status conditions" which is wrong because you can use rest talk rotom over substitute rotom. This provides you a more efficient rest talker and gives you immediate health instead of using pain split which doesn't always help in many situations where the opponents pokemon have lower hp then you. While still having tbolt/willow in the rest talk set this provides you better steel counters and easily takes care of electivire by being able to burn it and rest of the rest of the damage.

- - -
Move Sets Suggested:

Rotom@ Leftovers
252hp/120def/136spD: Bold
WillowWisp/Tbolt/Rest/Sleep Talk

Kingdra@ Chesto Berry
108hp/252attack/148speed
DragonDance/Waterfall/Outrage/Rest
- - -
Good Luck with the team!
 
Is there any reason you have Will-O-Wisp on Rotom if you also have Toxic Spikes? Replace that move with Reflect, so you would have a more reliable defense boosting move.

However, I strongly disagree with the above user who says you should not use a DD RestTalk Kingdra. Chesto Rest does not let you abuse Toxic Spikes efficiently, which are oh so important in creating a "win condition" against stall teams.

You may want to change the spread to the one RaikouLover has just created:

Adamant
252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 SpD

EVs allow you be a functioning Starmie counter, as it is not 3HKO'd by Life Orb Thunderbolt or Ice Beam. If reflect is up, it's extremely hard to kill with either physical or special moves.
 
@ Scimjara: Ahh...but what if the "crippling status conditions" are on Kingdra? For example, if my enemy puts up Toxic Spikes. RestTalk Kingdra is also an incredibly reliable Breloom counter, as it can't simply use Spore for a 2nd time.

Burn is for steels and levitaters, however I will consider that Rotom set, as it would be useful...

@ Super Mario Bro: I'm pretty sure my Kingdra took 3 Life Orb Thunderbolts from a Starmie anyway....if not, it easily survives 2. That's 2 Dragon Dances (or one if its' a switch), Rest, Sleep Talk twice, repeat.
If RaikouLover's set helps me survive against another threat, please inform me. Otherwise I think I might stick to the current one.
 
Amore said:
@ Scimjara: Ahh...but what if the "crippling status conditions" are on Kingdra? For example, if my enemy puts up Toxic Spikes. RestTalk Kingdra is also an incredibly reliable Breloom counter, as it can't simply use Spore for a 2nd time.

Burn is for steels and levitaters, however I will consider that Rotom set, as it would be useful...

@ Super Mario Bro: I'm pretty sure my Kingdra took 3 Life Orb Thunderbolts from a Starmie anyway....if not, it easily survives 2. That's 2 Dragon Dances (or one if its' a switch), Rest, Sleep Talk twice, repeat.
If RaikouLover's set helps me survive against another threat, please inform me. Otherwise I think I might stick to the current one.
Click to expand...

So what if they were on kingdra? Big deal you have rest and chesto berry all you have to do is dragon dance once you rest and boom your status is gone and you're at +1.... So what if you switch into spore from breloom rest talk rotom does the same -_- either way you are still going to get hit by a focus punch or seed bomb. Since when was burn just for steels and levitaters. I really hope you take in account about what I'm saying but w.e
 
Amore said:
@ Super Mario Bro: I'm pretty sure my Kingdra took 3 Life Orb Thunderbolts from a Starmie anyway....if not, it easily survives 2. That's 2 Dragon Dances (or one if its' a switch), Rest, Sleep Talk twice, repeat.
If RaikouLover's set helps me survive against another threat, please inform me. Otherwise I think I might stick to the current one.
Click to expand...

You want to be able to get an extra move in, and you really want security against critical hits!

Thunderbolt does 33.52%-39.49% Damage to your Kingdra currently...a guaranteed 3HKO if Sandstorm is up. With RL's set, Thunderbolt does a max of 33.33%, which greatly increases the odds of survivng 3 Thunderbolts.

You also need to understand that RestTalk DD Kingdra isn't here to sweep (which your current EV spread attempts to do). You will have to switch out once you become confused, or else you will risk killing yourself. It's a hit and run Pokemon, who absorbs status. Special Defense EVs help you survive random Leaf storms, Thunderbolts, etc. These EVs also give your team some needed specially defensive synergy (since the rest of your team is very much on the physically defensive side).
 
Obviously, without Substitute, Skarmory can phaze out Kingdra. However, Magnezone will deal with it if it doesn't have Shed Shell. And if it does, Magnezone will get it the next time.
Empoleon is another potential stopper - a SubPetaya set could benefit from a STAB Outrage helping knock down the HP bar a little. Magnezone traps it and KO's it before it can get going.
Click to expand...

This part really confused me, please explain better.
 
It may seem odd, but I suggest Choice Scarf >> Shuca Berry on Heatran. It may seem odd but keep reading and it really helps out a lot. Then might I suggest using flamethrower >> Fire Blast becuase its 85 accuracy will let you down. Use Dragon Pulse >> Stealth Rock. Dragon is a nice type to be stuck on becuase it hits almost all types for neutral damage. And HP Grass >> Explosion. This allows you to KO any Swamperts or waters coming in.

From my experience, Roserade doesn't really do much as a lead other than setting up Toxic Spikes. If Kindgra is suppose to sweep, than you don't really need Toxic Spikes. Your intention IS to sweep with Kingdra correct? Toxic doesn't really help much for sweepers. I suggest changing Roserade as a lead ans substituting it with an odd Jirachi lead I use.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- U-turn

When paired with ScarfTran, there isn't a single lead you cannot KO. Jirachi serves as your physical revenge killer while Tran serves as your special revenge killer.

Now... you have 3 choice users currently. You said Magnezone was your main reason for your Electrivire weakness. I will say electrivire isn't really common, and Zone is really good from my experience XD. You need a really good Weavile counter if Electrivire isn't going to be as big of a problem if you remove Zone.

Here is what Smogon says make good Weavile counters:

Steel-types take Weavile’s attacks with ease. Forretress laughs at all of his attacks and can use Weavile’s Speed against himself by firing off STAB Gyro Balls. Bronzong works in a similar way, though Night Slash does hit it neutrally. Metagross and Scizor can also switch in without trouble and OHKO Weavile with STAB Bullet Punches. Scizor is particularly problematic as he can also use U-turn to scout your team and cause some major damage thanks to his base 130 Attack stat. Gyarados is another good choice, as he can easily switch into Weavile thanks to Intimidate, and OHKO with Stone Edge. Swampert can also come in on Weavile and 2HKO with Earthquake.
Beware of random Choice Scarf Pokémon when using Weavile, especially Heatran. Mach Punch ruins Weavile as well, so watch out for Pokemon like Infernape. Any Pokemon who is faster than Weavile can generally cause very heavy damage to him thanks to Weavile's low defensive stats.

Did you see that? Beware of random Choice Scarf Pokémon when using Weavile, especially Heatran. Boom! You get to counter Weavile AND counter any lead they send out at you. Magnezone does counter all steels and traps them, but if you want to use Jirachi as a lead, you have a ground weakness. So Zone still count be removed. You don't really have any entry hazards. So if you want to use Forretress you can.
 
So...

I understand the Kingdra set now, so I'll run the new RestTalk DD Kingdra.

If it isn't a sweeper, do I need Roserade now, or do I still run Jirachi, ScarfTran and Forretress?

@ Legendary 07: Which part confused you? If it's about the Substitute..it's because originally I was running a SubDD set, but now, Skarmory could Whirlwind it out. However, that looks like it isn't really a problem anymore, as I was going the wrong way about using Kingdra.
 
you can use Roserade still but I will say that you still are atleast attempting to sweep with DD.

I think what I said starts the game off in your favor, but it's your choice. if T-Spikes help with Kingdra then use Roserade if not then try my suggestion.
 
Ok...well, tbh, Toxic Spikes do tend to help, as if all else fails, it can use the RestTalk strategy to stall out while they take hold.

I am going to use Flamethrower instead of Fire Blast. That thing cost me 10 battles tonight, usually due to a darn Weavile.

I've found that I can't take on Jolteon.
I know Heatran has Earth Power, but Thunderbolt takes it out before he can hit it. Also, I can't afford to run Choice Scarf on Heatran, because it leaves me with 2 choiced pokemon that DD Gyara and Dragonite can set up on easily.

Any suggestions how to counter that? Should I simply run a Jolteon of my own? That provides synergy with Vaporeon, switching in on the electric moves heading its' way, and hitting back with a generally powerful attack.
 
Ok...What should that replace? Heatran? I know Stealth Rock doesn't benefit me much...

Here's what my team now looks like:


Roserade (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Leaf Storm
- Toxic Spikes
- Sleep Powder
---
Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Explosion
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
---
Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Explosion
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
---
Rotom-w @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/168 Def/88 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Reflect
---
Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Surf
- Protect
- Ice Beam
---
Kingdra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP/96 Atk/160 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
---
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top