Tournament Monotype World Cup II Format Discussion

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Ticken

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Hello everyone, as many of you know by now we are planning on introducing Monotype World Cup back into our yearly tournament schedule and it is scheduled to run alongside BLT. The first iteration was two years ago now and it included both Monotype Old Gens and Monotype OMs into its format lineup.
Regardless if it was due to when the tournament ran, player burnout, DLC releases causing mischief, or a combination of the three, World Cup did not return again the following year. In an effort to try it out again and making it another anticipated high-level Monotype team tour, the moderation team is curious to hear what people would be most interested in seeing when it comes to the format distribution. There have been mixed opinions on the matter amongst the mods so hearing what the community thinks will be valuable input for us and the hosts [currently undecided] to consider!

The main format ideas that we have been considering include: (In no particular order)
- 8 SS
- 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW
- 3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 (Monothreat OR NatDex)
- 3 SS, 2 SM (or 1 SM + 1 ORAS), 1 AAA, 1 STABmons, 1 Monothreat

Other combinations are not out of the question but these are the few that we have been dwelling on. If the demand is there, the possibility of changing the format is another consideration to differentiate it from other team tours in the form of pools, resembling the official WCoP tournament. We are curious to hear what you guys would prefer here as well.

If you plan on posting your position, please explain your reasonings so we have a better idea of where you are coming from. Posting a lineup without reasons is fine but does not add to the conversation. Be civil if you do not agree with someone's stance! There is no objectively correct lineup so just because someone's preference does not align with yours doesn't mean you need to attack them. Please refrain from posting anything that will derail the conversation. These posts will be deleted if so.
 

roxiee

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- 3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 AAA, 1 STABmons, 1 Monothreat
- 3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 2 of DPP, Monothreat, Natdex
- 3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 DPP/Natdex/Monothreat

I am liking these the most(on a scale from more preferred->least preferred excluding 8 SS), I think having more than one tier should be favored a little more especially since we are switching from the OMs->Oldgens phase with other upcoming events like BLT, Monotype Gens Tournament, and soon MPL in the future. With that note, I think including 1-3 OMs is also fine considering the number of tournaments that are about to go around. DPP is something I just threw in because there haven't really been any recent team tournaments featuring it and it's supported by the Monotype Past Generations Thread but I am not against not having it. National Dex Monotype is also on the rise and has had a couple of tournaments (ongoing and most recent) like MWP, National Dex WCOP, and the Money Tournament but it seems a little weird to combine SM and Natdex in one tournament but again I'm not against having it in :3.
 
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My personal preference of format would probably be
1. 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW
2. 3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 Monothreat
3. 8 SS
4. 3 SS, 2 SM (or 1 SM + 1 ORAS), 1 AAA, 1 STABmons, 1 Monothreat

The 8 SS option seems pretty intriguing, and I do think MWP showcased how competitive SS Monotype can be as opposed to how it was a year ago before the DLCs. 8 SS can also (maybe?) make France or some other country pretty viable regions for consideration. That being said, I think for a tier like Monotype having too much of one tier can lead to a lot of burnout real fast. A ton of prep work is required for each slot in our team tours and it can quickly get overbearing if it's the same 8 slots over 9 weeks. I am definitely against the inclusion of Monotype OMs not only because I think they're uncompetitive as tiers, but also because it negatively impacts the competitiveness of the entire tour. Because of the nature of WCOP, regions that face issues fielding 10 competent slots have to deal with finding people that play these OMs, placing more restrictions on their rosters. From experience I can say that Asia definitely had a few problems with their OM slots last time to say the least. I'd be okay with including Monothreat to an extent since it's a whole lot different than the other OMs and I don't think it'd be a burden on the rosters. I like the MPL tiers the most here just to see BW get another tour outside of MPL itself.
 

Conflux

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4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW

Not a fan of OMs being included in this tournament right after MWP, the OM tour, and as izaya mentioned there are a bunch of cons of including them. I'm not a fan of OMs in Monotype tours in general, except Monothreat and I guess NatDex is okay too, but that's for another day. 8 SS isn't a terrible idea but 32 SS games a week with nothing else in a team tour seems whack and it can get boring despite SS being pretty competitive and having room for innovation. 4 SS slots is perfect in my opinion and I want to see more of ORAS and BW Monotype than just in MPL.
 

Zar

Back to old ways
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I'd like to propose a different list of tiers for the tour

3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 NatDex, 1 Monothreat

This set bridges the gap between MPL tiers and MWP tiers perfectly imo. It has the core essentials of Mono competitive play with the 4 generations from MPL and the 2 non-fairy tale tiers from MWP in Natdex and threat. I don't like the idea of having 2 SM + 1 Natdex as they are so similar in essence while the complete OM tiers like AAA and STAB just weren't fun to watch in MWP so we should definitely steer clear of them for this tour. One of the SS slots can be turned into a BO3 slot as well like in MWP if needed since bo3 games are always fun to watch. Monothreat is one of the few mono OMs that have proven to be competitive. There are a few squabbles about the inclusion of Monothreat in this as there might not be enough "Monothreat mains" but it is such a learnable tier given that it is in current gen, I think it should be added in.
 
- 3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 NatDex, 1 monothreat

I agree with Zar here. The tiers brought by this selection cover very well the relevant metagames of Monotype, and with Natdex rising in popularity as well as being a bit of a mix between gen 8 and 7, I really think it is a nice idea to have it in a large-scale tournament where so many people are interested in that meta right now. Monothreat has also proven to be competitive as mentioned above, especially given it does not modify the actual gameplay mechanics or ruleset from SS as the other OMs do, and thanks to that, players can adapt to it more easily as it has more similiarities with the tiers they are used to.

However, due to the fact Monothreat is being featured in MWP I understand some players won't be satisfied with it being featured again, so if this proposed format isn't possible I think it is valid to suggest the third option, also based on the reasons stated above:

- 3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 (NatDex or monothreat)
 

Zap

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Whatever the discussion here is, I would like to lay out what I want for wcop.
Mainly, I want it to have it's own identity. Our goal is to have 3 mono tours in a year that would each have a separate identity, that prevent burnout, and still remain competitive. I was pushing hard for mono wcop to come back because I really enjoyed the region aspect, despite some teams being unbalanced. But that made it more fun in my eyes, and made for greater underdog stories. As of right now, the 2 other tour formats are:

MPL:
The most important mono tour and the most competitive. Balance of Current and old gen. Auction based.
3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 Bo3 multigen.

MWP:
Fun yet competitive tour based around mono OMs. Current gen focused. Changed to auction.
2 SS, 1 Bo3 SS, 1 Natdex, 1 Stab, 1 AAA, 1 LC, 1 Threat

Now we have WCOP. To differentiate it, the best idea would technically be 8 SS. Although for other reasons I just don't like this idea. So we have to go for minor differences.
- 3 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 (Monothreat OR NatDex) is what I initially suggested, but ppl bring up fair points where 2 SM and 1 Natdex is too much. So I like the idea of:
3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 Natdex, 1 Threat.

I personally don't view natdex and threat to be too outlandish in terms of being OMs, and imo are easiest to adapt to. Which is important given the lack of diversity in players some regions might face. This format would also be a medium ground of current gen focused, with some old gen mixed in, as well as not being too OM focused. I'm fine with anything tbh, in the end it's up to the players to make it a fun tour.

Edit: didn't see Zarif's post until after but yeah, what he said too
 
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Chaitanya

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- 8 SS

If we value competitiveness the most, this is the best way to go. Current gen mono has the most players making it inherently the most competitive gen available. Fair concerns have been raised about the tier getting boring across 9 weeks even if there is still plenty of room to innovate but this depends on how much people value competitiveness over everything else.

- 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW

With BW being removed from mono gens, and threat having the partner threat tour, BW is only represented in MPL currently and I don't agree with monothreat or any om getting more exposure than BW as I don't think threat is a competitive tier at all and BW was our main metagame at one point and should be treated as a fixture in a tournament with old gens. It's now currently only being represented in MPL which is a shame so I think this tour should have BW if not all SS.

The more SS slots there are, the more 'weaker' teams have a chance to field a competitive side so this option is naturally the best to me after seeing what people have said about 8 ss.

Replying to Zap's thoughts: Region based teams is enough to differentiate the tours where WCOP has its own identity without requiring a change in tiers.
Which is important given the lack of diversity in players some regions might face.
Due to this, having more SS in the tour makes more sense imo

other thoughts:
-- huge no to dpp lol.
-- multiple AAA and STAB tours while BW is represented once is criminal
-- people talked about how two sm and natdex overlap which is absolutely true. I however dislike 1+1 (sm + natdex) as well. While it isn't difficult to pick up, it takes away a slot from what is almost wholly accepted as the best monotype gen ever and I don't really understand why we would do this. However I do think natdex is more competitive and has a much larger playerbase than threat so should probably get priority as I do value competitiveness a lot, but as I said 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW is best for me.
 

Rinda

formerly LaPatateDouce
Given the arguments listed above in favor of 8 SS and 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, that I find both very convincing, I'm wondering why couldn't we have an intermediate option like :

- 5 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW

I understand this might seem a bit strange to add old gens while still having SS weighting 5/8 in the balance, but to me this would be far more pleasant to prep and watch than having 8 SS per week. Having only 3 old gen slots would let the opportunity for more regions to bring a competitive line up, as Izaya and Chait underlined.

We might also imagine something like :

- 4 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 Natdex, what would please a little more SM players, and keep encouraging the development of mono natdex which is pretty cool.
 
3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 NatDex, 1 BO3 Oldgens (SM/ORAS/BW) or 4 3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 NatDex

3 SS slots seem good enough for me, with the likes of BLT and MPL being on the horizon where I expect SS to be at the forefront, I don't then any more are necessary. With SM and NatDex having many similarities, I think they should be limited to 2 slots. The recent interest in NatDex has led me to believe it should have a more consistent presence in team tours until a new generation/more DLC releases. ORAS is fine since it would be odd to include SM and BW and not include ORAS and also caters to the boomers that don't fear watching 8 coinflip games (SS). I agree with Chait, since BW is out of the Monogens rotation, I think it should get the representation. For the last one, I thought since we just saw Monothreat in MWP the matchups would feel already explored since no meta shifts have occurred since then. So I thought an oldgens BO3 would be fine, however that would make this format very similar to MPL. We could go with a 4 SS format to hopefully bridge the skill gaps between teams since not all regions will have skilled boomers to blitz through their slots whereas an extra SS slot could be a chance for a new player to quickly learn and make a name for themselves on the scene.

Other opinions:
AAA, STAB, LC should not make an appearance.
8 SS could be end up very boring and reduce the skill cap of the overall tour.
I've never seen DPP mono, and from what I've read it might be an option better left in the dark.
 

dahli

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i honestly think we should only showcase the three most recent gens for wcop

-6 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS

slotting bw in would make this mpl 0.5, way too similar imo and the pool of bw players is stacked enough so 1 time per year is fine for it.
that or 8 ss
 

maroon

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I'd like to propose a different list of tiers for the tour

3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 NatDex, 1 Monothreat

This set bridges the gap between MPL tiers and MWP tiers perfectly imo. It has the core essentials of Mono competitive play with the 4 generations from MPL and the 2 non-fairy tale tiers from MWP in Natdex and threat. I don't like the idea of having 2 SM + 1 Natdex as they are so similar in essence while the complete OM tiers like AAA and STAB just weren't fun to watch in MWP so we should definitely steer clear of them for this tour. One of the SS slots can be turned into a BO3 slot as well like in MWP if needed since bo3 games are always fun to watch. Monothreat is one of the few mono OMs that have proven to be competitive. There are a few squabbles about the inclusion of Monothreat in this as there might not be enough "Monothreat mains" but it is such a learnable tier given that it is in current gen, I think it should be added in.
After hearing a few different opinions and reading through this thread, this seems like the best route for the tournament. However, if this format isn't used, I would say that dahli's suggested format of 6 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS is the other viable option for this tournament. Not much else to say as I feel like these formats are the only decent options and that their posts pretty much cover what is needed.
 

Acey 2B

Formerly Acey - Danse Macabre
- 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW

This seems like the best option, current gen being the spotlight keeps the competitive aspect that Chaitanya mentioned, and SM having a few slots is nice too as I think it was peak monotype. 1 for the other two is nice to keep it mixed up.




Real answer is 8 SM tho.
 

Kev

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- 2 SS, SS Bo3 / SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1, NatDex, 1 Monothreat
- 2 SS, SS Bo3 / SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 1 Monothreat


The format I wanna talk about is two alternative variants of the proposition that Zarif and a few others gave. I believe one of these would be the optimal format in terms of both metagame inclusivity / diversity and interest / fun. To explain my reasoning, I'll go over some of the points presented before as well as give some fo my own.


1. The inclusion of an SS bo3 slot

Instead of the 3 SS format of MPL, I think taking the 2 SS + 1 SS Bo3 from MWP is the best decision to handle cg monotype. This way, SS Monotype representation is theoretically half of the games of the tournament, although a bit lower for Bo3s that end in 2. This is important because the current gen is the one that deserves the biggest spotlight, has the biggest player base and is what weak to develop. Moreover, Bo3 is just in general a great format that tends to give the most exciting games by pitting the top players against one another and demonstrates more of their skill.

2. 8 SS is draining and uninteresting

A big issue we noticed from the last time we had Monotype WCOP is that players could be very drained and unmotivated because of the amount of big tours together. As someone who skipped MPL V following the last Monotype WCOP because of team tour fatigue, I can see the motivation and lack of interest occurring. 8 SS games are definitely going to result in a lot of team recycling because it is unreasonable to expect that teams will go through the effort of creating 8 distinct teams every week. A big thing with the early weeks of this MWP was that a lot of the teams / matchups were similar because of how good Landorus-I was. It was obvious the audience had gotten sick of watching the same thing every single game and wanted something fresh; if we put 8 SS slots that problem is only gonna become worse. There is also the issue of not every region realistically fielding enough viable cg builders to churn out that many teams. Even if they do have enough builders, they probably wouldn't bother trying to change things up too much when they'd have 54 SS matches in the regular season. Overall, I think this format would just make people bored of SS, and not motivated to play it.

3. 8 SS does not fix the issues regarding competitiveness

The World Cup format is by nature unbalanced on a website like this, it is clear certain regions just have a much larger pool of good players. It is suggested that 8 SS would fix this issue, because there are more cg monotype players on the site, and regions such as France would be able to field a much more viable team. While this is true for that specific region, and could potentially be true for others, it doesn't necessarily make a big difference for others and could potentially damage them too. Also, it doesn't make up for the huge gap with top runners US East; the difference between that region and the rest would be significant regardless of how many SS slots there are. As for the other returning teams, I cannot imagine the difference would too greatly impact their relative viability.

4. The lack of Monothreat "mains" in every region does not impact the competitiveness of the tour

While I am a strong believer of needing a person experience with Monothreat to find success, I also do not think the lack of one would ruin the chances of that slot. Furthermore, SS Monothreat is still a completely fresh metagame so there isn't really a huge edge in terms of experience. If someone skilled really invests themselves to this slot, they should easily be able to compete at a high level as it is not an incredibly difficult metagame to become accustomed to. In every tour that has this slot, we have seen people completely unfamiliar with the format doing great without any support from a so called mainer, some examples include TonyFlygon, Nat, taide, Triangles. I did have my personal issues with some of the types in MWP, as the metagames for them felt dry or matchup-y (this probably sounds weird because its literally Monothreat, but take my word for it since thats a whole post of its own). However, it would be unfair to use those factors to call Monothreat uncompetitive. Just like any OM it has its flaws, but it has shown to be relatively fair in comparison to other OMs and provides diverse, interesting games full of techs.

5. The 4 SS + 2 SM + 1 ORAS + 1 BW format is too similar to MPL

As mentioned before, 3 big tours in a year makes it so that they start and end very close to one another which can lead to players getting drained quickly. I assume MPL will only start a few weeks after this tour, and by that point there might not be as much excitement because we've just had the same tour. The lineup I proposed only has 1 or 2 different tiers from this though, so I don't feel that strongly about this point. Nonetheless, I think having the same tiers as MPL just seems boring to me. It'd be nice to see something different besides the teams being region based.

6. The lack of BW "mains" in every region does not impact the competitiveness of the tour

First of all, I think the repartition of BW players across the regions is pretty decent and is definitely more than for Monothreat if they all sign up. That "if" is an argument in itself, as it alludes to a potential problem for MPL in the future. The player base for Monotype BW has been declining, which is damaging for MPL. The inclusion of BW in this tour is a great chance to shine the light on a hidden gem, or introduce a new star to the metagame which helps grow the tier. An example would be KuraiTenshi26, who was a completely unknown player in Monotype prior to Monotype World Cup. The lack of options for Canada had us give him a chance on the team, and he ended up being regarded as a better player in the tier going into MPL V.

7. AAA and STABmons should not be included

This one is pretty much a consensus it seems. These tiers haven't shown to be all that great during MWP, and even some people who played these tiers in the tour agree they should be avoided. Also, LC is obviously not even apart of the conversation. Also, as Chait mentioned, AAA and STABmons getting more representation than BW is kind of nonsense.

8. 2 SM or 1 SM, 1 NatDex but not 2 SM + 1 NatDex

It is clear that SM Monotype is regarded as the pinnacle of balance in Monotype; it is the best metagame available in terms of competitiveness and has a large player base. For these reasons, the tier definitely can afford having 2 spots. NatDex is an interesting OM that is like a hybrid of SS and SM, and seems to be relatively well regarded as a competitive and enjoyable metagame. For the sake of metagame diversity, NatDex receiving a slot over the second SM is fine. However, the inclusion of 2 SM and a NatDex seems bad to me personally, because it comes off as awkward. Also, SS and Z-Move metagames would have the exact same representation which does not seems right personally. I guess that could be rectified by having one of the SS slots as Bo3 but it still doesn't seem right to me.


Besides my personal choice, the MPL tiers format is alright if we decide to go with that, or even dahli and LaPatateDouce's suggested "smogon tour gens" idea. However, I do believe the format I highlighted would be the best.
 
I agree heavily with Chait, 4 SS, 2 SM, 1 ORAS 1 BW

It keeps all our main and most competitive tiers, and a healthy mix of SS and SM for the newcomers, while having two seperate tiers that would be more appealing to the boomers


Also since BW got dropped from Gens, it would basically replace it here as a spotlight tier, as someone who joined and played initially on BW it feels dissapointing seeing the tier so unplayed and I would personally love for it to have at least a little spotlight

I might say if 4 SS is too much we can change it to 2SS, 2 bo3, 2sm, 1Oras 1 BW, or just drop one of the Bo3 SS for a slot like natdex or threat
 

Chaitanya

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A few things then

i honestly think we should only showcase the three most recent gens for wcop

-6 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS

slotting bw in would make this mpl 0.5, way too similar imo and the pool of bw players is stacked enough so 1 time per year is fine for it.
that or 8 ss
I don't understand why a stacked pool would mean we want less of it showcased. Better players = better games = better tour you would think...
Not sure why ORAS gets representation when BW doesn't, objectively makes sense to have all older gens or none. BW has already been booted from gens so it only has MPL which is very little representation already. Also there are no issues with the tier that make it the odd one out other than it being the oldest and I don't think that's a very good reason?

Regarding threat being competitive - I don't think threat is uncompetitive due to the lack of 'threat mains' as Kev mentioned. I think it's uncompetitive due to how much it is decided in the builder. Pokemon is naturally a game where the builder has a huge say in the game yes, but when games can be decided in the builder (generally caused by pokemon that we deem broken) we ban them for being uncompetitive. I personally find threat to be uncompetitive for this reason, as I feel that many times in threat, games are decided based on what players bring and their skill is just icing on the cake. I enjoy building and playing it but I don't find it competitive. However, if one of threat and natdex are going to be added I don't care too much about which is. I do think natdex is way more competitive but it's taking away from a SM slot which I don't like either so either one seems okay. Still think 4/2/1/1 is best though

SS Bo3 - Please no, keep bo3 to MPL. I didn't agree with bo3 being in MWP and I definitely don't want it in all 3 team tournaments. 3 teams is a pain to prep and having bo3 in 3 tours a year is going to wear people out extremely quickly if it hasn't already.
 

dahli

white hot forever
is a Tiering Contributor
I don't understand why a stacked pool would mean we want less of it showcased. Better players = better games = better tour you would think...
Not sure why ORAS gets representation when BW doesn't, objectively makes sense to have all older gens or none. BW has already been booted from gens so it only has MPL which is very little representation already. Also there are no issues with the tier that make it the odd one out other than it being the oldest and I don't think that's a very good reason?
i dont see how getting the 96th edition of north vs freeroamer/sabella/jyph/x bw player in wcop and then getting the same matchups 6 weeks later in mpl is a good idea? thats bad even for the players themselves since they might get burnt out, ofc they are all so talented and its so entertaining to watch them play, but i feel like old mono gens keep developing as tours go by, although they do it way slower than recent gens, thats why i think 1 tour per year with older gens (and in this specific case, bw) is more than enough just like it is in the regular smogon teamtour schedule. i said oras and sm should stay because they are more recent and i consider both playerbases to be bigger than bw's and i personally see more metagame development in those 2 (in SM more specifically)

another unusual thing we could do if everyone feels like 8 CG slots are too much is cutting the whole tour slots down to 6 CG which would actually be beneficial for some regions with a smaller pool of viable players
 

Zar

Back to old ways
is a Contributor Alumnus
i dont see how getting the 96th edition of north vs freeroamer/sabella/jyph/x bw player in wcop and then getting the same matchups 6 weeks later in mpl is a good idea? thats bad even for the players themselves since they might get burnt out, ofc they are all so talented and its so entertaining to watch them play, but i feel like old mono gens keep developing as tours go by, although they do it way slower than recent gens, thats why i think 1 tour per year with older gens (and in this specific case, bw) is more than enough just like it is in the regular smogon teamtour schedule. i said oras and sm should stay because they are more recent and i consider both playerbases to be bigger than bw's and i personally see more metagame development in those 2 (in SM more specifically)

another unusual thing we could do if everyone feels like 8 CG slots are too much is cutting the whole tour slots down to 6 CG which would actually be beneficial for some regions with a smaller pool of viable players
I'll be honest here, I don't understand what you mean by "the players will get burnt out"? Do you mean someone like north/freeroamer/sabella etc. would get burnt out of playing BW because they're playing 14 games in 365 days? I'd like to think that I'm speaking in behalf of a significant part of our community when I say older generations of Monotype (SM,ORAS,BW) are a lot more fun to watch than standard SS. The meta develops a lot slowly because those metas have had years of gameplay and have been balanced out more than CG. BW is one of our best Mono related tiers and having it represented in only 1 tour all year around is actually disgusting. By excluding BW, you're also excluding a list of the most recognized faces in Monotype in Freeroamer, North, Jyph etc. I also don't think anyone has any problem watching the 96th edition of north vs freeroamer either as BW has always proven to be the most unpredictable tier in MPL with a new person getting a mad record every year.
 
I'll be honest here, I don't understand what you mean by "the players will get burnt out"? Do you mean someone like north/freeroamer/sabella etc. would get burnt out of playing BW because they're playing 14 games in 365 days? I'd like to think that I'm speaking in behalf of a significant part of our community when I say older generations of Monotype (SM,ORAS,BW) are a lot more fun to watch than standard SS. The meta develops a lot slowly because those metas have had years of gameplay and have been balanced out more than CG. BW is one of our best Mono related tiers and having it represented in only 1 tour all year around is actually disgusting. By excluding BW, you're also excluding a list of the most recognized faces in Monotype in Freeroamer, North, Jyph etc. I also don't think anyone has any problem watching the 96th edition of north vs freeroamer either as BW has always proven to be the most unpredictable tier in MPL with a new person getting a mad record every year.
BW strats have been changing a fair amount since I played back in the day, to the point its more unpredictable, and since SS devlops slowly rn compared to already developed metas thats probably the reason why I recommend sticking to 4 SS slots instead of 6 or hell 8... Who knows when SS will be fully developed since we dont even know if they will add in the rest of the mons (GF is currently teasing something big this year... and bets point to it being a new main series game)

By sticking to 4 you can at least give viewers a healthy mix of the newest tier and the older tiers, while still putting an emphasis on the current gen.

As for BW having the same amount of players like normal I mean that makes sense (granted I havent been picked for tours at all despite eagerly wanting to play it so I will playing it in Gens) North, Freeroamer and company all play the metagame the most and are normally the ones picked for the tier. However as of late strats still get used and discovered such as that Psychic team I comade with JT last year that had an emphasis on killing dragon water and steel. Ive seen Flying used more than I believe i ever did back when gen 5 mono was a thing, it helps that most types can be fairly flexible in their approaches (except for maybe dragon and bug somewhat due to them having the same approach which can be summed up as "HULK SMASH") So i have to agree with your points here Zar
 
A focus on older tiers would be the most exciting for me to watch. Nobody plays bw/oras/sm unless they have to. SS you can get on the ladder and seasonals. This would encourage more talent being found for mpl that might not have gotten a chance otherwise due to region locking. Also gives a reason for the more experienced to impart knowledge to those who really would have no easy ways of getting it.

1SS, 2SM, 2Oras, 3BW (or whatever variation which would still have only 1 SS slot, can sub in whatever other unplayed meta that isnt some boring OM, i hate watching that stuff)
 

Ridley

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2 SS, 2 SM, 2 ORAS, 2 BW

Not sure how realistic this is, but I think it would be super cool to have a larger tour like Monotype WCOP focused around all of the developed generations of Monotype. We have 3+ slots of SS in both of the other team tours we host as well as numerous solo tours focused completely around SS (seasonals etc.), whereas the other 3 gens are much less widely represented. I understand the reasoning behind including more slots of the current gen, but I think that it would be interesting to have a team tour that is less focused on the current gen so that the older gens could potentially develop even more.
 

zugubu royale

Banned deucer.
3 SS, 1 SM, 1 ORAS, 1 BW, 2 NatDex

3 SS cuz its current gen mono and sometimes pretty interesting
1 SM idk why but it would be weird without it
ORAS and BW so boomers can show off their psychic monos "wow what a pretty picture susan, I have never seen victini slowbro latios look quite like that, we'll put that one on the fridge"
2 NatDex because I like natdex
 

Ticken

Lotad & Bulbasaur Enthusiast
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B101 Leader
I'll give my 2 cents to the discussion as well, as other mods have provided us with theirs.

I want a lineup that distinguishes World Cup from the other major team tours we offer, plain and simple, this way the tour can stand on its own and make an identity for itself. The previous iteration of World Cup did this by combining OMs and Old Gens together but considering the general community consensus around Mono OMs being bad, I do not think that is realistically feasible. So what lineups am I favoring now? The two I am favoring most fondly towards is Zarif's 3/1/1/1/1/1 (Old Gens + NatDex + Monothreat) or Ridley's 2/2/2/2 (Old Gens).

While I wish we could add metagames to major tours to give people more reason to play them, I do not see this happening with the OMs unless we get more people playing those formats and being interested in balancing them out more than they are now. The next best thing for me shifts to incentivizing the formats that are less represented but still do not have a soiled reputation: Old Gens, NatDex, and Monothreat. Old Gens are always what people gravitate to after SS, for good reason as they are similar formats but with different Pokemon and mechanic differences, NatDex is on the rise as we are no longer restricted with the Pokemon, item, or move we choose, and Monothreat is basically SS but with an agreement on using the same type. Both options I mentioned before that I like the sound of the most fulfill my requirement of incentivizing other formats that are not SS, to put it blunt, and they allow for more experimentation either by the number of formats represented or by having multiple people on the same team interested in working with each other for a similar goal. While I wish Monothreat could be in, seeing another BW is not a bad option either. Just please, no more SS than 3 at most...

Addressing the Monothreat not being competitive complaint I've seen mentioned in this thread:
I have talked to a couple of people who feel that Monothreat is not competitive so I can understand where they are coming from. Each time they say Monothreat is primarily building related and as a result, you only need to play at a mediocre level to win due to how much building plays a role in the format. Honestly, I think that is a really bad take because Monothreat is easily the most competitive format to build for objectively speaking as you know exactly what threats are to be expected and you both need to make the most out of the options available. Just because your team is solid does not mean you can account for everything! That is the main misconception I feel because there are many archetypes to employ in Monothreat and covering for each is not realistic a majority of the time. Building in Monothreat gives people the advantage because of the nature of the metagame and it is what makes it different from the other Monotype formats we play. People who prep better and have more experience should be rewarded and is what competition SHOULD be. The take that because building plays a larger role in the format ultimately makes it uncompetitive due to battling skills being less necessary is like saying "you shouldn't take your homework seriously, just do well on the test." While there are people like that in school, not everyone should be forced to play like that and Monothreat offers another way to play Mono. Just because you do not like it personally does not mean you should take away the opportunity from others who view it differently. It's an elitist view to say the format you prefer is more competitive and the aspect your format is worse than the other in, building in this case, makes the other uncompeitive is frankly absurd and should not be publicized at all.
 

Sabella

Heating Up
is a Tiering Contributoris a Past WCoP Champion
I'll be honest here, I don't understand what you mean by "the players will get burnt out"? Do you mean someone like north/freeroamer/sabella etc. would get burnt out of playing BW because they're playing 14 games in 365 days? I'd like to think that I'm speaking in behalf of a significant part of our community when I say older generations of Monotype (SM,ORAS,BW) are a lot more fun to watch than standard SS. The meta develops a lot slowly because those metas have had years of gameplay and have been balanced out more than CG. BW is one of our best Mono related tiers and having it represented in only 1 tour all year around is actually disgusting. By excluding BW, you're also excluding a list of the most recognized faces in Monotype in Freeroamer, North, Jyph etc. I also don't think anyone has any problem watching the 96th edition of north vs freeroamer either as BW has always proven to be the most unpredictable tier in MPL with a new person getting a mad record every year.
Honestly couldnt have said it better myself zarif. Was gonna add to this but no need.
 
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