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Jolteon-1.gif
Rhyperior-1.gif
Gyarados-1.gif
Salamence-1.gif
Starmie.gif
Scizor.gif








Jolteonback.png

Jolteon-Leftovers
252 Speed/252 SpAtk/6 HP
Vol Absorb/Timid
Moves
Thunderbolt
Hidden Power (Ice)
Substitute
Baton Pass

My Favorite competitive pokemon next to Miltank. The set is obvious, Sub,Pass, Rince and Repeat. Thunderbolt kicks around pokemon quite a bit, and with a great boltbeam combination Jolteon can easily whipe a team in the late game if Blissy is gone.


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Rhyperior-Leftovers
252 HP/252 Def/6 Atk
Solid Rock/Impish
Moves
Substitute
Swords Dance
Earthquake
Avalanche

Sub,Dance, Sweep be happy. EQ is STAB, and Avalanche hits everything else, including Gliscor and Hippowdon, HARD. Megahorn would be nice for Cresselia, but I dont have room.

Gyaradosback.png

Gyarados-Leftovers
216HP/16 Atk/176 Def/100 Spe
Intimidate/Adamant
Moves
Dragon Dance
Taunt
Waterfall
Stone Edge

Its hard to get a good Gyara sweep now in days. Theres so many Gyara counters thats its a miracle Gyara will touch the opponents team. Celebii,Starmie,Vaporeon,Cresselia,Tangrowth and the rise of Porygon2 usage doesnt help out either. BUT, Venasaur can take 4 of those counters, and Rhyperior will smash Pory into peices, so Gyara should at least be able to do something besides wall Choice Heracross.

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Salamence-Choice Specs
252 Spe/252 SpAtk/6 HP
Intimidate/Modest
Moves
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse
Flamethrower
Hydro Pump

More Intimidate, more power. Salemence is my second Celebi counter, and Mixap- oh wait, he runs HP Ice now. Anyways he hits stuff hard. I want to make him mixed, but I feel wish support would be needed to get rid of LifeOrb recoil.

Scizorback.png

Scizor-Life Orb
252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def
Technician/Adamant
Moves
Pursuit
U-Turn
Light Screen
Roost

Awesome set, U Turn hits things hard and does heavy damage to some Gyara counters (Cresselia,Starmie,Celebii) Roost is for Recovery, Light Screen works well because Scizor just asks for special attackers to come in. Thanks Wayff for the suggestion.

StarmieBack.png

Starmie-Leftovers
160 HP / 132 SpA / 216 Spe
Natural Cure/Timid
Moves
Recover
Rapid Spin
Surf
Thunderbolt/Grass Knot/Ice Beam

Standard support star, Rapid Spin for Salamence and Gyara. Surf smacks grounds, the last slot is debateable, right now its Thunderbolt. Recover is for....recovery.


Any Help?
 
As much as you would think that Avalanche would do much to Gliscor, Gliscor actually does a fairly good job stalling it out and KOing Rhyperior. Rhyperior with your stats only do 144 - 172 damage to Gliscor, and even less on Hippowdon.

So I would really recommend removing Rhyperior. Rhyperior has a typing that's too terrible to actually survive this metagame with EQ and CC flying everywhere. I would much rather have Gliscor on that slot, who can actually take hits and deal with Scarfchomp who can 6-0 your entire team. Gliscor can run Roost/Ice Fang/EQ/Filler, although I would recommend Stealth Rock since it's a very good move in general.

Watch out for special sweepers, since you really lack a way to take them on. I would remove Venusaur, and run a Sing Blissey if you want to take the shot of sleeping an opponent. Blissey can also run Wish, so it can keep Salamence and Gyarados healthy even with SR down. This means that Starmie is free to run Boltbeam and Surf, so you can cover gyarados quite well too.
 
Did you factor Swords Dance Avalanches? Because it does way more. Also what EV Spread and Nature did you factor for Gliscor? Did you factor Solid Rock? Impish with 6 Atk EV's doesnt even break Rhyperior's sub. and I think SD'd Avalanche 2hko's. Hippowdon is a bit more threatning.

Also im aware of Rhyperior's bad typing, but Solid Rock with that EV Spread can take a beating. Plus 2 of my pokes can soften blows with intimidate. I might think about Gliscor though.

About Scarf Chomp I know he doesnt OHKO Rhyperior, infact I have to if it 2hko's. If he's scarf'd I can rely on a bit of prediction to beat him. Gyara switches in on anything and intimidates, Salamence switches in on EQ and intimidates, Venasaur can put it to sleep.

Your right about the Special Sweeper weakness. Azelf likes this team alot. Blissy would be great on any team, but I need something to kill Swampert and put Bulky Waters out of comission or they'll totally wall Gyarados. Blissy sounds solid though since most Gyara counters rely on special attacks.

Thanks for helping me, I might consider Gliscor and Blissy.
 
120 BP Avalanche does min 82% to max HP/DEF Gliscor. He has to Earthquake Rhyperior in order to cause damage, and when he does, he gets hit really hard. Without Stealth Rock down Gliscor might be able to stall him, same goes if Rhyperior gets toxicated. However, not all Gliscor run 252 DEF.. regardless, I'd recommend more ATK EVs on your Rhyperior. Not sure about substitute on it, you might want Megahorn to deal heavy damage to Cresselia, and not get totally walled by Bronzong.
I wouldn't change him just because his 'bad typing'.. the team looks like it's built very well to cover for these weaknesses.

Jolteon kinda bugs me here. I don't see how his Sub is extra useful for your team, since nothing can set up here besides Rhyperior, and he's weak to EQ as well. DD Salamence could potentially benefit from Jolteon's Sub pass, but you're running a Specs one.
 
rkatzam said:
120 BP Avalanche does min 82% to max HP/DEF Gliscor. He has to Earthquake Rhyperior in order to cause damage, and when he does, he gets hit really hard. Without Stealth Rock down Gliscor might be able to stall him, same goes if Rhyperior gets toxicated. However, not all Gliscor run 252 DEF.. regardless, I'd recommend more ATK EVs on your Rhyperior. Not sure about substitute on it, you might want Megahorn to deal heavy damage to Cresselia, and not get totally walled by Bronzong.
I wouldn't change him just because his 'bad typing'.. the team looks like it's built very well to cover for these weaknesses.

Jolteon kinda bugs me here. I don't see how his Sub is extra useful for your team, since nothing can set up here besides Rhyperior, and he's weak to EQ as well. DD Salamence could potentially benefit from Jolteon's Sub pass, but you're running a Specs one.
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Well I have Gyarados as my Gliscor counter, so its not like Rhyperior's main job is killing Gliscor. Im justing saying if I have a sub up and possibly an SD or going for one I might as well kill it.

Jolteon is there to lure out Blissy, so Rhyperior can set up on her on the free switch, and possibly kill her letting Specsmence go crazy on my opponents team. Plus its got Volt Absorb for T Bolt switch-ins. Gyara and Sal dont mind subs either.
 
I'm a little concerned about venusaur, and what it really does for your team. I think roserade could fit in there well, and put in more offensive power.

And mello yello is vastly superior to mountain jew. Can you still get it in america?
 
Xaio said:
I'm a little concerned about venusaur, and what it really does for your team. I think roserade could fit in there well, and put in more offensive power.

And mello yello is vastly superior to mountain jew. Can you still get it in america?
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Venasaur has an electric/grass resistance and beets Gyarados's counters Vaporeon, Starmie, Celebii.


Also Mello Yellow is still sold in america, although most people prefer Mountain Jew and Mountain Dew.
 
roserade has the same typing, and can do all of those things.

this thread is now about how much more superior mello yello is to mountain dew/jew
 
Venasuar? What does he do? If you're looking for a more "defensive" kind of grass, maybe go with a SubSeed Sceptile or maybe even Roserade.

You don't really have a clear answer to Weavile.

Also, a BIG Boltbeam weakness. (5/6) A Nasty Plot Poryon-Z could probably take out just about your whole team.
 
On Rhyperior, there isn't a use for both Substitute and Swords Dance, it needs as much type coverage as possible to beat as much walls as possible. Put Stone Edge over Substitute, then put Megahorn over Avalanche. It's not like your team has huge Gliscor problems, but Megahorn can hit Cresselia, Bronzong, Mespirit, and Uxie much much harder. If beating Celebi, Starmie, Vaporeon, Cresselia,Tangrowth and Porygon2 is your priority, why don't you try Uber Scizor instead? Standard Uber Scizor is U-Turn / Light Screen or Quick Attack / Pursuit / Roost. It's also a great Gengar counter. Venasaur isn't reliable enough, so put that Uber Scizor over Venasuar. Adamant 196 HP / 84 Atk / 168 Def / 60 Spe Rhyperior can 2HKO Hippowdon after 1 SD. You can also try Rock Polish / EQ / Stone Edge / Megahorn @LO Rhyperior. If I were you, I'd remove Rhyperior to counter stuff like Garchomp though; it's way too important. I'd change Gyarados's EVs to 252 Atk / 232 Spd / 24 HP, the Bulky Version can't take hits well anymore, with all those big threats around, and Gyarados needs sky high attack to beat walls, so yeah. This team begs for Stealth Rock, put SR on Gliscor when you replace Rhyperior. To be honest, Jolteon isn't that good of a lead anymore, you probaly should use something like RestTalk Machamp there instead to beat Tyranitar leads right off the bat.
 
Something I don't like, is this teams general inability to switch into Ice/Electric attacks, also known as Boltbeam. Any strong pokemon using these attacks (Deoxys-E, offensive Starmie, Porygon2, Porygon-Z, ect) all give you fits, considering Salamence, Gyarados, Starmie and Rhyperior are all 1-2HKO'd by these attacks. Even Venusaur can't take much punishment, seeings as Life Orb Starmie does 44.78% - 52.75% with Ice Beam, and Deoxys-E hits it for 61.81% - 72.8% with Psychic.

I would actually replace Venusaur, seeings as it seems to be your weakest link. Replacing Venusaur with Jirachi will help you to still take on bulky waters like you want, give a valuable Ice resistance, and Jirachi is bulky enough to not take to much damage from Thunderbolts. Jirachi will give you a third ground weakness, but you really need something to cover up that Ice/Electric weakness a little better. Heatran would work even better than Jirachi, but you said you wanted something to take on bulky waters. Jirachi also helps against Weavile, which can also give you a lot of problems with CB or Swords Dance Ice Punch.

I'd also use Stone Edge over Avalanche on Rhyperior. Ground + Rock gives good type coverage, and two 100 BP STAB attacks. Stone Edge after a Swords Dance will 2HKO Gliscor, and if he Roosts, Earthquake does just as much, so Gliscor is shit out of luck there.

Then again, you could always replace Rhyperior for a CB Snorlax instead, who has an Ice "resistance" thanks to Thick Fat, and great SpDef. You can easily switch into Starmie and OHKO with Pursuit, and it also makes a good switch into Celebi, Milotic and Porygon2, considering you hit hard, and they can't do jack shit to you. And with Gyarados, Salamence AND Starmie, the fighting weakness really isn't going to hurt you much.
 
Wayff said:
On Rhyperior, there isn't a use for both Substitute and Swords Dance, it needs as much type coverage as possible to beat as much walls as possible. Put Stone Edge over Substitute, then put Megahorn over Avalanche. It's not like your team has huge Gliscor problems, but Megahorn can hit Cresselia, Bronzong, Mespirit, and Uxie much much harder. If beating Celebi, Starmie, Vaporeon, Cresselia,Tangrowth and Porygon2 is your priority, why don't you try Uber Scizor instead? Standard Uber Scizor is U-Turn / Light Screen or Quick Attack / Pursuit / Roost. It's also a great Gengar counter. Venasaur isn't reliable enough, so put that Uber Scizor over Venasuar. Adamant 196 HP / 84 Atk / 168 Def / 60 Spe Rhyperior can 2HKO Hippowdon after 1 SD. You can also try Rock Polish / EQ / Stone Edge / Megahorn @LO Rhyperior. If I were you, I'd remove Rhyperior to counter stuff like Garchomp though; it's way too important. I'd change Gyarados's EVs to 252 Atk / 232 Spd / 24 HP, the Bulky Version can't take hits well anymore, with all those big threats around, and Gyarados needs sky high attack to beat walls, so yeah. This team begs for Stealth Rock, put SR on Gliscor when you replace Rhyperior. To be honest, Jolteon isn't that good of a lead anymore, you probaly should use something like RestTalk Machamp there instead to beat Tyranitar leads right off the bat.
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I really dont feel like changing half my team. Although I used that Scizor you were talking about, and I have to say it kicks ass. I replaced Venasaur with it and gave Starmie grass knot.

Any more suggestions?
 
Venasaur sucks in OU, seriously, there are much better "bulky" grass types who are more useful. Tangrowth, Shaymin, Celebi and even Roserade, who has the same typing, meaning it absorbs Toxic Spikes, can Sleep Powder and set up Toxic Spikes. With 125 base special attack at its disposal spinners like Starmie and Donphan will run scared, and Forretress will fear HP Fire.
 
blasphemy1 said:
Venasaur sucks in OU, seriously, there are much better "bulky" grass types who are more useful. Tangrowth, Shaymin, Celebi and even Roserade, who has the same typing, meaning it absorbs Toxic Spikes, can Sleep Powder and set up Toxic Spikes. With 125 base special attack at its disposal spinners like Starmie and Donphan will run scared, and Forretress will fear HP Fire.
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Thats a bit true but Venasaur has some selling points as well.

Celebi- Venasaur can beet it one on one with Sludge Bomb, Venasaur can also absorb T-Spikes. Venasaur doesnt get owned by pursuit.

Roserede- Venasaur doesnt die wen it gets hit with a physical attack.

Shaymin- Outclasses it with a better movepool.

Tangrowth- Venasaur doesnt roll over and die from an Ice Beam. Power Whip is sexy though.


I dont need any grassers at the moment I think. Starmie can take care of Swampert. Jolteon will hit Starmie and Vaporeon pretty hard, and Scizor can pursuit Starmie.
 
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