Policy Review Movepool Issues

Empress

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Alrighty, I've given this the a look over, and here's how I am interpreting the proposal.

Once the movepool stage comes around, the participants will pitch in on ALL of the moves this CAP will have. Then it's our job to decide how to group all our moves into standard movesets, either by making them the main moves, slashes, or simply OO. Subsequently, it is my job to determine what moves are allowed and disallowed and how each allowed move will fit into the movesets.

Is that about right?
 

DougJustDoug

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No. People will post proposed movesets, and the community will comment and edit those movesets. No more spamming random move suggestions without any context of how they are intended to fit in an actual moveset.

I will post later today or tomorrow with a proposed posting format for movesets, moveset edits, and some other proposed structure for managing the thread.
 

nyttyn

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No more spamming random move suggestions without any context of how they are intended to fit in an actual moveset.
i know this adds nothing to the PR but

SWEET JESUS THIS IS THE BEST PART ABOUT THIS CHANGE.
 

DougJustDoug

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Proposed Moveset Discussion Posting Format, Moderation/Leadership Standards, Etc.

There should be four kinds of posts in the thread:
  • Moveset Submissions
  • Moveset Edits/Option Submissions
  • General Commentary
  • Section Leader/Topic Leader Announcements/Updates
This means that no moves can be suggested or commented on unless they are part of a full moveset submission or suggested as a additional option for one or more previous movesets. Also, any recommendations to disallow certain moves should only be in reference to moves contained in previously posted movesets.

The general flow of the thread should go like this:

  1. People post moveset submissions in a prescribed format (see below)
  2. Other people suggest to add/remove moves or other options to previously posted movesets (see below)
  3. Other people propose edits to the descriptive information with previously posted movesets
  4. Other people comment on the competitive pros and cons of previously posted movesets, additions/removals, and proposed edits
  5. Continuously over the course of the thread, the movepool leader updates the first post in the thread with the "currently accepted" movesets and other information related to the status of the intelligent community consensus (see below)

The idea is to have a focused discussion, and not have a bunch of random suggested moves, comments, flavor whining, etc. Everything revolves around competitive movesets. By the end of the discussion thread, we should have the following outputs:

  • The top post in the thread (maintained by the Movepool Leader) will contain a list of all edited, approved movesets
  • The top post will list controversial movesets and/or optional moves that need to be voted on by the community


Moveset Submissions

Movesets should be posted in the following format:

Moveset Submission

Name: Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Earthquake
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Recover
Ability: Wonder Guard
Item: Mail
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Jolly

  • Because of CAP X's Ghost/Dark typing, helpful ability Wonder Guard, and 180/140/165 defenses, it is able to withstand quite a bit of punishment
  • Swords Dance allows it to quickly become an unstoppable juggernaut
  • EdgeQuake coverage allows it to hit dangerous threats like Delibird, Stunfisk, and Kakuna
  • For the occasional times where CAP X takes damage at all, Recover allows you to rub your opponent's nose in your 6-0 sweep while finishing at full health
The "Moveset Submission" line should be in bold at the top of the post, followed by the rest. This is necessary so the movepool leader can easily see which posts in the thread are proposing new moveset submissions, and can easily locate the information when updating the top post in the thread.

Ability, Item, EVs, and Nature are optional. Basically, we need four moves and a name to get the ball rolling on a moveset. Some descriptive information (in bullet form) is also required.

Any suggested moveset posted without any reasonable description will be deleted by the moderators. People should not spam movesets, post without checking the movesets already submitted, or post movesets without thinking them through.

Although we are not posting movesets in the full C&C analysis format, we should generally adhere to C&C standards where it makes sense. We don't need to be hardcore QC police on this stuff, but people need to use common sense. Don't get too slash-happy with moves, no stupid names, use proper spelling and grammar, etc. These movesets will be put on the CAP subsite immediately at the end of the CAP for the playtest, so we need to use this thread as a way to crowdsource making decent content.

If the submitter is unsure of the optimal ability, item, EVs, or nature -- they can leave it out and it can be edited in later over the course of the thread. By the end of the thread, every accepted moveset should be filled in completely. That doesn't mean we need to be 100% sure of every aspect of the moveset. It's fine if we go with our best guess and leave it to the playtest to optimize it.


Moveset Edits/Option Submissions

Since the movepool leader will need to easily review proposed additional options and edits to movesets, I think we should have some standards as to how these proposed changes should be made. Without standards, the movepool leader will have to go through every word of every post and decipher what changes are actually being proposed. That won't work.

I propose that edits/options should be made by copying the most recent version of the moveset and description into an unattributed quote box (that's a quote box that does not refer to an actual post or poster, we're using a quote box simply as a container). Then make any edits, additions, or replacements in bold text, removals should be in strike-through text. The most recent copy should taken from the top post or from the original submission post, depending on whichever one is most current.

Posters can and should comment on the reasoning and background for any proposed edits. Comments about the proposed edits should be put below the quote box. Simple wording or spelling corrections do not need any explanation or commentary.

Additional move proposals must be made in the context of one or more movesets. The user cannot simply post "I suggest we add Taunt as an option to all non-choiced movesets" or whatever. Broken record: Everything revolves around movesets...


Movepool Leader/Topic Leader Posts

The first post under the OP should be reserved by the Movepool Leader, and will serve as the reference post for the current status of the discussion.

When the Movepool Leader determines that a moveset, option, or edit is accepted by intelligent community consensus, they will add/update a list of "Approved Movesets" in the first post. The Movepool Leader SHOULD NOT add every submission to the first post automatically, simply because it was posted in the thread. The Movepool Leader SHOULD NOT add a submission to the first post if it was not actively accepted by intelligent community consensus. "Lack of any response" is not the same as "acceptance". As with all CAP discussion threads, the leader should always use their best judgement.

If a proposal has received significant intelligent feedback (positive or negative), but it has not yet reached consensus, the Movepool leader should add it to an "Under Consideration" list in the first post. If the thread ends with controversial items that can't reach consensus, they will go to a community poll. In most cases, the "Under Consideration" list should be comprised of full movesets or additional option proposals. Edits to the description of most movesets, probably will not require extensive discussion or polling.

As the Movepool Leader makes updates to the first post, they should also post announcements in the thread indicating what they have added or updated. This will allow active discussion participants to easily track the progress of the thread. The Topic Leader should also post regular feedback in the thread, like every other competitive discussion.

Moveset Poll

I'm not exactly sure how this should be done, and I suspect we'll figure it out after we see how the discussion thread plays out. I can envision a bazillion complicated scenarios, and I won't even try to list them all out or establish rules or standards for handling them here. The TLT and Mods will talk at the end of the moveset thread, and we'll figure out what we need to do for the poll, as it pertains to making the slate, implementing TL +1/-1, voting method, etc.
 

DougJustDoug

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Tagging Snobalt nyttyn and jas61292 for comments/sanity check on the proposal listed above, so we can get moving to finalizing a conclusion to this PR. We still have a little time before the Movepool steps begin, so no rush. But I don't want us to push it too close to get this wrapped up, and we may still have more work to do, depending on feedback to the latest proposal.
 

nyttyn

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I'm assuming that we'll still have offensive and supportive move discussions before the movset stage? If so, I don't really have any complaints with this, and having mulled over it for a little while, don't see any real issues. The only thing is that I think we can probably use the same Yes / No voting options that we currently have for controversial movesets, while making sure there are at least one or two "core" movesets as need be so that, no matter how the polls wind up, there is at least a minimum sufficient number of movesets that fulfil the CAP's intended role. Though, that would give more power to the movepool TL, and it's just a suggestion for now, we should probably wait to see how things play out.
 

jas61292

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I think the way you outlined this stage would be ideal Doug. It will definitely require the mods to keep a close eye on the thread, especially the first time around, but I definitely think this keeps the thread structured and focused like we want it to be. I am a bit worried still about how the poll would go, but as you said, there is really no way to know how it is going to end up, so I am all for leaving that open for us to decide on when it comes up.

And to respond to nyttyn's question:
I'm assuming that we'll still have offensive and supportive move discussions before the movset stage?
No. As per the previous conclusion in this thread, we will not be having any specific moves discussions other than the movesets one. The entire point of the doing movesets was to replace these discussions so that the focus is never on moves in isolation, as moves really mean nothing outside of a set.
 

DougJustDoug

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For this first time with the new process, it might be a good idea to line up a few posters to post a few movesets immediately after the thread opens. We could read through the posts ahead of time and make sure they have the right format and wording. Heck, maybe even line up a few people to immediately post edits or options too.

The reason I suggest this is to set a good example for the thread right out of the gate. Then when other people read the thread they will understand the new flow of the thread by seeing the examples already in the thread.

Since this CAP already is GUARANTEED to have at least one DD set and one CM Set, it makes even more sense to just pre-write some proposed DD and CM movesets by a few knowledgeable veterans ahead of time and have them ready for discussion when the thread launches. What do you think?
 

nyttyn

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Oh, yeah, I suppose that makes sense jas.

As for doug's proposal, I'll get in touch with a few people I know will be able to provide use with pre-written movesets. It'd probably be a pretty huge help, especially considering our current situation.
 

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