Metagame Multibility [OM of the Month]

Speaking of which.
:ss/Slowking-Galar:
Slowking-Galar @ Tinted Lens
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Scald/Slack Off
- Nasty Plot/Toxic/Future Sight
A pretty solid Toxapex answer. It's Poison typing makes it immune to Poison in most cases and lets it soak up Toxic Spikes. What makes it even better is the fact that it doesn't really care about common Toxapex partners. With Tinted Lens and Nasty Plot, Slowking-G's STABs can rip past most defensive cores with the exception of ones with Jirachi and Bronzong (and Bisharp as well, but isn't all that strong with the whole Knock Off being nearly useless and Dauntless Shield being an intimidate that doesn't proc Defiant. Additionally Toxapex pretty much shutting Bisharp down with Prankster Haze). Due to its Psychic typing, pretty good SpA and SpD, and being immune to Poison, Toxapex can't stay in to Haze you or try for Scald Burns. But it can't just switch into something like Heatran or Corviknight, since Tinted Lens Psychics at +2 that well and can't do much in return. Slowking-G can really put a lot of pressure with this set against most teams.
You know, when I made this post, I had no idea how absurd Tinted Lens Slowking-G would be. Well your royal highness certainly doesn't have King in its name for no reason
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8multibility-1430040923
1 Nasty Plot, and something is likely dead. If I didn't have that misplay at the start, Slowking-G would have 6-0'd an entire team nearly by himself.
Seriously consider using this thing on your team. You'll be satisfied with the results.
 
Hi guys. I just reached top 3 in the ladder, and I wanted to share my team with everyone.
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Swampert @ regenerator
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Flip Turn
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
Pivot. HARD COUNTER for Regieleki.

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Corviknight @ intimidate
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
I don't have much to say about this Corvi.

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Rillaboom @ tintedlens
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Grassy Glide
- Wood Hammer
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance
Too good, this rilla has worked for me

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Slowbro @ magicbounce
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Teleport
- Slack Off
Magic Bounce is great, and it helps my zapdos not take rock damage
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Comfey @ tintedlens
Ability: Triage
EVs: 236 HP / 252 SpA / 20 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power
- Synthesis
- Calm Mind
Don't underestimate this pokemon, Triage also so good.
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Zapdos @ primordialsea
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Hurricane
- Volt Switch
- Roost
Zapdos is used to stop Talonflame or any Pokemon with weather temporarily

My team's weaknesses are Scizor.
I actually wanted to replace Slowbro for Toxapex.
 
Corviknight @ intimidate
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
I don't have much to say about this Corvi.
Cool team, but why use intimidate over Dauntless Shield? It’s pretty much better in every way, even without Body Press.
 
Cool team, but why use intimidate over Dauntless Shield? It’s pretty much better in every way, even without Body Press.
Intimidate is nice on pivots since you can pass off the attack drop if you pivot or get KOed, Dauntless Shield is better if you plan on staying in multiple turns. They both have merit on Corv, especially since they have a secondary physical check in Bro.
 
Intimidate is nice on pivots since you can pass off the attack drop if you pivot or get KOed, Dauntless Shield is better if you plan on staying in multiple turns. They both have merit on Corv, especially since they have a secondary physical check in Bro.
That's true, but I think that Dauntless Shield would still be better overall. You don't have to worry about Defiant, Scrappy, Inner Focus, ect. and there are less options for your opponent when switching into DS Corviknight since the stat boost stays.
 
ok so first off let me say i only just am getting in to competitive-ish pokemon so my sets are probably stupid as fuck cause i have no clue what im doing, anyways, here are some moronic shitshows of sets


Barraskewda @ Drizzle
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet
- Scale Shot
the obvious thing for this one is that it is swift swim with rain setting, so obviously this bitch fast as fuck. dunno why i put aqua jet there, i probably just saw priority and thought "ooh i like that"

Buzzwole @ Chilling Neigh
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Leech Life
- Dual Wingbeat
- Ice Punch
another thing thats fairly obvious, chilling neigh plus beast boost fuckin stack, so that is fairly cool, kill 3 pokemon with this and you have max attack

Clawitzer @ Misty Surge
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Terrain Pulse
- Toxic
so i wanted to do shit with mega launcher but the problem with that is 1 it boosts so few moves that your options for mon are sort of limited but 2 (this is the more important one) fucking nobody who has a terrain setting ability has enough of these moves in their pool to justify running it with them, and i wanted terrain pulse cause with mega launcher it has 150 base power in any terrain, so you are forced to use a move slot on a terrain move (if you go this route my suggestion is to use mew) or do what i did and give clawitzer a terrain setting move, any terrain works i just picked misty cause i like fairy

Kommo-o @ Punk Rock
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales
- Boomburst
- Autotomize
i call this one "why is there nothing better than punk rock to boost sound moves?" which isnt me trying to discredit punk rock, but it does two things pretty decent and while that is nice i tend to prefer doing one thing extremely well
 
Barraskewda @ Drizzle
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet
- Scale Shot
Why no water move other than Aqua Jet? Between STAB and rain, Liquidation hits almost everything harder than either Psychic Fangs or Crunch would.

Clawitzer @ Misty Surge
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Terrain Pulse
- Toxic
Misty Surge makes Dragon Pulse weaker, plus it's the only terrain that doesn't give Terrain Pulse an extra power boost.
 
Clawitzer @ Misty Surge
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Terrain Pulse
- Toxic
so i wanted to do shit with mega launcher but the problem with that is 1 it boosts so few moves that your options for mon are sort of limited but 2 (this is the more important one) fucking nobody who has a terrain setting ability has enough of these moves in their pool to justify running it with them, and i wanted terrain pulse cause with mega launcher it has 150 base power in any terrain, so you are forced to use a move slot on a terrain move (if you go this route my suggestion is to use mew) or do what i did and give clawitzer a terrain setting move, any terrain works i just picked misty cause i like fairy
What chartung17 said, but also with Misty Terrain, Terrain Pulse automatically covers everything Dragon Pulse covers besides Poison types, which you could have Dark Pulse instead.
 
ok so first off let me say i only just am getting in to competitive-ish pokemon so my sets are probably stupid as fuck cause i have no clue what im doing, anyways, here are some moronic shitshows of sets


Barraskewda @ Drizzle
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet
- Scale Shot
the obvious thing for this one is that it is swift swim with rain setting, so obviously this bitch fast as fuck. dunno why i put aqua jet there, i probably just saw priority and thought "ooh i like that"

Buzzwole @ Chilling Neigh
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Leech Life
- Dual Wingbeat
- Ice Punch
another thing thats fairly obvious, chilling neigh plus beast boost fuckin stack, so that is fairly cool, kill 3 pokemon with this and you have max attack

Clawitzer @ Misty Surge
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Aura Sphere
- Terrain Pulse
- Toxic
so i wanted to do shit with mega launcher but the problem with that is 1 it boosts so few moves that your options for mon are sort of limited but 2 (this is the more important one) fucking nobody who has a terrain setting ability has enough of these moves in their pool to justify running it with them, and i wanted terrain pulse cause with mega launcher it has 150 base power in any terrain, so you are forced to use a move slot on a terrain move (if you go this route my suggestion is to use mew) or do what i did and give clawitzer a terrain setting move, any terrain works i just picked misty cause i like fairy

Kommo-o @ Punk Rock
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clangorous Soul
- Clanging Scales
- Boomburst
- Autotomize
i call this one "why is there nothing better than punk rock to boost sound moves?" which isnt me trying to discredit punk rock, but it does two things pretty decent and while that is nice i tend to prefer doing one thing extremely well
Also, misty terrain would negate your own toxic.
And you should give Liquidation to Barras, it need something to hit slow but bulky mons, i dont think you need scale shot.
 
:ss/Perrserker:
Perrserker @ Tinted Lens/Steelworker
Ability: Steely Spirit
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- U-turn
At it again with the White Vans Tinted Lens, and with Perrserker now and featuring Steelworker.
Anyone that has played Shared Power knows how disgusting Tinted Lens+Steelyworker can be. Unfortunately (or fortunately if you’re Toxapex reading this), you can’t have Tinted Lens with a x2.25 boosted (even before STAB) Steel type attack. You got to choose between hitting Pokemon that are neutral to Steel even harder or choose to make hitting x2 resistances be effectively neutral and x4 resistances effectively x2.
Depending on your team, whether or not you got a Pokemon Pokemon such as Toxapex and Corviknight covered.
It should be noted that Steely Spirit is technically different from Steelworker. Steely Spirit boost Steel type moves for the user and allies, while Steelworker will boost only yourself. So they should be able to stack. If they don’t, definitely go for Tinted Lens.
The EVs in Spe allow Perrserker to outspeed an uninvested Corviknight. The remaining EVs are pumped into Atk to maximize the power of your physical attacks, and in HP to have some generalized bulk.
If you want to use Steelworker, you can have either 84 Spe to outspeed uninvested Clefable or 252 Spe to outspeed uninvested Mandibuzz (though I haven’t seen too many, but this also includes Heatran, which also rarely has uninvested speed).
Sword Dance allows Perrserker to be a huge threat to defensive core, putting a lot of pressure on the opponent when you manage to bring Perrserker out. There aren’t too many Pokemon that would like a Tinted Lens+Steely Spirit Iron Head normally, and most certainly not one that is at +2. You have like Heatan, Rotom-W/H, Magnezone, Lanturn, and Volcanion.
Iron Head is the most consistant physical Steel move Perrserker has, but if you want to run something like Gyro Ball, you would need to have minimum Spe and Curse, which isn’t worth it imo.
Close Combat is for all that x4 resistances that think they are safe from Perrserker.
Lastly, U-turn is there for momentum purposes. If your opponent knows the disgusting power of Tinted Lens with Steely Spirit, they will often switch out as to avoid the serious damage Perrserker can dish out.
Between Perrserker and Slowking-G;
  • Perrserker is much stronger thanks to Steely Spirit and Steel type moves having nothing immune to them
  • Perrserker is faster (or rather less-slower), able to get the jump on several more defensive Pokemon
  • Perrserker has access to U-turn, which is great for a Pokemon whose role is to apply pressure
  • Slowking-G is much bulkier, being able to withstand more hits naturally than Perrserker. Slowking-G also has regenerator and is basically so slow you might as well invest your EVs into bulk anyways
  • Slowking-G deals with Toxapex, arguably the tier king, much better, since it has Super Effective moves rather than a pseudo-neutrallity only
  • Slowking-G has 2 STABs and one of those STABs lets Slowking-G hit on both sides
Between Perrserker and Slowking-G, I’d have to say Tapu Lele is the better Tinted Lens user and is stupidly broken

Edit:
:ss/Kingdra:
Just wanted to also add in this set for Kingdra as a bonus
Kingdra @ Primordial Sea
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 48 HP / 252 SpA / 208 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Hurricane/Ice Beam
- Flip Turn
In this metagame, it’s pretty common to see the Primal Weathers duke it out because of how strong +2 Speed with a move that boosts your attacks as well and keep you safe from Water or Fire respectfully. In this war, you’ll typically see Barraskewda for PS and Venusaur for DL. Because of how weather works, Barraskewda is at the disadvantage in the match-up because it’s frail (only able to switch into solar beam and then can only Flip Turn out if it does), and it’s also faster, so Desolate Land will always set if you bring them in on the same turn.
Enter Kingdra. Having 208 Spe will actually make Kingdra slower by 1 point vs a 252 Neutral Nature Venusaur, which is important as this ends up resulting in Kingdra winning engagements more often. Additionally, Kingdra is much bulkier than Barraskewda to where it will survive multiple weaker attacks, has better defensive typing, and also has Hurricane. Kingdra can also beat out other Swift Swimmers because of these attributes as well.
 
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I'm currently #8 on ladder, I'll share my thoughts

  • Triage is dumb. I've been using Buzzwole (Bulk Up Dual STABs Thunder Punch) and Togekiss (Sub NP Draining Kiss Air Slash) and they're both great. Very few people, in my experience, are abusing Psychic Terrain, and Dazzling/Queenly Majesty are very rare. It's very easy to clean with these mons.

  • Weather is annoying, particularly the combo of [Weather setting ability] + [Speed in weather ability]. Barraskewda and Seismitoad are the biggest offenders here, with the former outrunning everything very easily and pivoting for free and the latter forcing opponents to guess whether it's physical or special; both of those sets are very good. Venusaur is threatening with its choice of Growth, Weather Ball, Giga Drain / Solar Beam, Earth Power, Sludge Bomb, etc, but its STABs are less spammable. I haven't encountered any other sun abusers. Hail is similarly underexplored and has Arctozolt to set its own weather. Even sand has Sand Stream Excadrill and Sand Rush Tyranitar. Triage is great at checking weather, god bless. Weather offers almost nothing to defensive playstyles except for Goodra. Primordial Sea + Hydration + Rest is annoying as fuck.

  • Regenerator is fantastic. I've been using it with Swampert + Heatran and they're very reliable. Lando-T is another good user and I'm certain that many other great abusers exist because Regenerator is so insane on paper. Tapu Fini and Rotom-Wash/Heat come to mind.

  • Toxapex is more frustrating than ever. Levitate and Volt Absorb are its best options imo but Corrosion is cool too.

  • The -ate abilities are very good and deserve more use. Regieleki appreciates Refrigerate a lot while Lando-T, Salamence, and even Aerodactyl love Aerilate. I haven't seen Pixilate but it's certainly viable.

  • Terrains are underexplored, and in my opinion they might be broken. Psychic Surge lets Alakazam hit brutally hard and it shuts down priority without having to rely on Dazzling/Queenly Majesty since those are so situational. Tapu Lele can just use Sheer Force or something and be a menace. Electric Surge is a blessing for Alolan Raichu and Regieleki, although the latter is much better off using Refrigerate as its secondary ability and relying on teammates for terrain. Tapu Koko has plenty of good abilities to choose from as well. Grassy Terrain and Misty Terrain aren't particularly useful for anything.
I'm definitely enjoying this meta so far. Despite some arguably broken features, it's still fun to play around with.
 
Ok, so after playing a few matches, here are some of my thoughts.

:ss/Gengar:
I'm surprised that Gengar (or rather Sleep Moves+No Guard) isn't on the watchlist.
Paralysis is already a really uncompetitive element to the game, and I get why trying to ban Thunder Wave or any move that can paralyze would be controversial for any meta, but I think Gengar is especially unhealthy in this case. Not only does it have Zap Cannon with 100% accuracy, but also 100% Hypnosis and STAB Hex. 100% sleep is already amazing enough with Spore, but Gengar has the 4th fastest sleep inducer available (only being slower than Accelgor (with Yawn), Jolteon/Crobat (Sing/Hypnosis), and both Persians. And technically Darkrai if it existed).
Gengar is definitely the worst abuser of No Sleep Paralysis because of its pretty high SpA, typing being able to beat Blissey, and Gengar could run movesets more than just No Guard.

:ss/Comfey: :ss/Buzzwole: :ss/Togekiss: :ss/Tapu Bulu: :ss/Pangoro:
On the flip side, I think the opposite with Triage imo. Triage is for sure incredibly strong, but it's far from being broken with the given abusers and what moves get priority. With the exception of Parabolic Charge, Dream Eater (lol), and Oblivion Wing (redistricted to a banned Pokemon), all Triage moves are resisted Poison along, and most of them have very overlapping resistances too. All except Drain Punch (and PC) are resisted by Steel. All except Drain Kiss (also PC, DE, and OW) are resisted by Flying. Similarly with Ghost as well. The only useful Triage attacking move that can hit Fire is Drain Punch. It's actually really easy to hard wall a Triage user with incredibly common Pokemon like Toxapex, Corviknight, Aegislash, Clefable, Skarmory, Landorus-T, Tornadus-T, Zapdos, Heatran and a whole host of other defensive backbones you can fit on most teams. And remember, only Butterfree and Comfey can use any of the useful Drain moves with Tented Lens). Then you have Psychic Terrain and Dazzling, which both completely invalidate Triage and priority in general. Only Tapu Bulu isn't all screwed over against Psychic Terrain, but it is still screwed against Dazzling. I also find often that even at +2, Pokemon like Pangoro will fail to get KOs with just their Triage moves, even against medium bulk Pokemon, so I'd be forced to switch out or I'd accidentally sack it thinking it'd KO. I won't deny that it's a great ability, but it's definitely more than manageable.

I also think that Buzzwole is a bit overrated and I personally prefer Pangoro. Like I said, Buzzwole can be really hardwalled easily. A Volt Absorb Skarmory/Corviknight will absolutely stop Buzzwole in its tracks. There are softer checks like Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Clefable, Defensive Landorus-T, Dragapult, and Aegislash that will wall Buzzwole endlessly if Buzzwole lacks the correct coverage, and even then, it's going to be hard to break past them. And because Buzzwole of course is going to use Leech Life, it will also have a hard time against priority immunities too.
Pangoro on the other hand, doesn't have as much trouble against those Pokemon as Buzzwole does. Unlike Buzzwole, Pangoro can hit Ghost types with Scrappy, is immune to Intimidate as well, bypasses Dauntless Shield users+Pex+Aegislash with Darkest Lariat, can boost with Sword Dance so that its moves don't bounce off of Corvinknight/Skarmory's bulk, and can KO most Fairies with Gunk Shot. Ironically Pangoro loses against Buzzwole, but plenty of Pokemon that are just better overall are beaten by Pokemon that they outclass.

:ss/Groudon-Primal: :ss/Kyogre-Primal: :ss/Rayquaza-Mega:
Another topic talked about in this meta is the Primal Weather Wars. Honestly the dynamic here is kind of fun aspect. Since the Primal Weather have to be in your item slot and the nature of Primal Weathers, a lot of the opness from Gen 5 Weather Wars isn't as present. There isn't a lot of pressure to remove your opponent's weather as it was in Gen 5 since setting up your own in this meta means you'll be immune to the respective weather's boosted moves. If you have, say Venusaur, and your opponent has Barraskewda, They'd need to use Psychic Fangs on the switch, and not doing so means your opponent needs to switch to something like Levitate Heatran. The respective Pokemon also have much less power behind their attacks since their items are the Primal Weathers. That's also 1 example, as I have been seeing a ton of people use Pokemon like Defensive Goodra or Eruption happy Heatrans.
In terms of brokeness from the perspective of this meta, even without your own weather, it's not too hard to deal with them. I think most people will say that Weather Speed abilities+Primal weather is problematic, but given how common good priority is, how good defensive cores are in this meta, and the fact that the abusers can't hold things like Life Orb or Choice Band, I think the Primal Weathers are fine.

:ss/Landorus:
I was honestly surprised that Landorus-I was even legal to begin with. This sentiment also seems to be shared with everyone else on ladder since I have found 0 people who have been using Landorus-I, likely because no one knows its currently legal. So I can't say much about it. I imagine it's pretty strong, possibly able to use Life Orb that is psuedo-buffed with Knock Off being non-existent.
If someone know, could you share some Landorus-I sets.
 
That's true, but I think that Dauntless Shield would still be better overall. You don't have to worry about Defiant, Scrappy, Inner Focus, ect. and there are less options for your opponent when switching into DS Corviknight since the stat boost stays.
Like they said before, the attack drop holds when I switch to Slowbro. And about Scrappy and others, in ladder I only found a Pangoro with that ability, and I had no problems.

I would worry about pokemon that does not do anything to them like Scizor
 
I've got a team I've been using on ladder recently, looking for some critiques on it

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
The main idea for Scarf Lando is catching people off guard. It's EV'd specifically to outspeed Zeraora, but from what I've seen with games, the set isn't too good, at least for this team. Definitely thinking of swapping this out

Toxapex @ prankster
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 248 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
- Haze
This thing is insane. Pretty standard too, so you probably know what this thing does.

Garchomp @ regenerator
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Protect
- Toxic
I think I shared this set earlier on the thread, but either way, this thing has been surprisingly useful. Protect really helps scout sets or just generally what my opponent wants to do, and even uninvested EQ hits pretty hard. Dragon Tail helps a lot for spreading chip damage, as does Toxic

Moltres @ magicguard
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Scorching Sands
- Overheat
So far, the MVP of the team. Moltres checks quite a few mons running around, like Triage Buzzwole and the funni monke, and Overheat, despite having no investment, still hits really hard against a ton of mons, like physdef Clef and basically all of its switch ins. Scorching Sands is there for spreading around burns, and the other two moves are self-explanatory

Ferrothorn @ magicbounce
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 128 Def / 132 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Body Press
Moving on from the good mons(and Lando), we get the two mons I'm the iffiest about, starting with Ferro. This mon has been decent in some matches, but for the most part, it just spreads a bit of chip damage and at best gets off a layer of spikes then dies. Granted, against some teams it's done pretty well, but those games have been rare for me

Zeraora @ magicguard
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Drain Punch
- Close Combat
- Volt Switch
And now we get to Zeraora, probably the team member I'm most eager to improve/replace. Maybe it's just me running 4 attacks/being bad at the video game, but this mon has done practically nothing for me the entirety of the time I've used it.
 

drampa's grandpa

#BlackLivesMatter
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
OM Leader
A couple more updates!
First:

Sleep Clause Mod is being replaced by Sleep Moves Clause, which "Bans all moves that induce sleep, such as Hypnosis". The council agrees that sleep is too uncompetitive and broken a mechanic to be allowed without some restriction "and the proof is in the fact that sleep clause mod changes how the game works just to try and balance it."

Rather than use the complex Sleep Clause Mod we believe it is simpler and more in tune with Smogon tiering policy to use the Sleep Moves Clause.

To be clear, the full list of moves that are being banned is:
Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Sleep Powder, Spore, Yawn

tagging Kris

Second:
:ss/groudon-primal::ss/kyogre-primal:
These bois (or rather their abilities) are back in the meta after their brief hiatus. They went from breaking the code to breaking the metagame.
The council is pretty much agreed that weather is problematic and needs to go. However there is still some disagreement as to the best way to manage removing them from the metagame.

We could restrict certain weather-summoning abilities directly. This most assuredly removes the problematic aspect, but also removes most if not all weather from the metagame. This is a bit of a nuclear option, but we would like to hear if you believe it is the best one. Which weathers specifically do you find problematic?

We could ban (as in fully ban, not restrict) certain speed doubling abilities. A restriction would not work as the majority of and the best of the abusers of these abilities have it as their natural ability. This would prevent the
banworthy sweepers utilizing Primordial Sea + Swift Swim or Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, but we should keep in mind that banning abilities from natural abusers is something we have so far only done to stifle uncompetitive elements in the metagame and ideally it would stay that way.

We could ban specific abusers of this strategy. Do you think Barraskewda is the only problematic weather abuser? Let us know and why!

Please do not restrict your thinking to only the Primal Weathers. We wish to know what you think is the right way forward for all types of weather; which can stay as they are, which need restrictions of some sort placed on them and which are fine. Which aspect of our weather abusers is the best to remove in order to leave the metagame as full and as balanced as possible.

Other things that have come up recently include...

Tinted Lens
Triage
Terrains

All of these have been brought up in various places, and the council would love to hear more on what people think about them and why. With plenty of examples and replays preferably ;)
 
i have multiple accs, one at 1450

regenerator is broken as usual and boring as usual (god i hate heatran, landorus, and weezings)
in fact, i think that your team must have at least one regenerator in this meta to fare well


tinted lens is my fav ability, but the problem is the surprise factor, though unlike some metas, there is no choice band associated with it. Dunno if it's a problem but if you keep regenerator mons, then you have to keep tinted lens
 
As a AAA (Almost Any Ability) player, Primordial Sea and Desolate Land render skills like Drizzle and Drought useless.
This has made the hail weather disappear in AAA.

Delta Stream, Desolate Land and Primoldial Sea restrict the build for a weather team, but in my opinion, it needs that restriction in Multibility, since here a pokemon can have 2 abilities, leading to dangerous combinations with Chlorophyll or Swift Swim.
 
Sleep Clause Mod is being replaced by Sleep Moves Clause, which "Bans all moves that induce sleep, such as Hypnosis". The council agrees that sleep is too uncompetitive and broken a mechanic to be allowed without some restriction "and the proof is in the fact that sleep clause mod changes how the game works just to try and balance it."

Rather than use the complex Sleep Clause Mod we believe it is simpler and more in tune with Smogon tiering policy to use the Sleep Moves Clause.

To be clear, the full list of moves that are being banned is:
Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Sleep Powder, Spore, Yawn
Wow. Immediately bans sleep right after I post about Gengar being broken af because of Hypnosis. Lmao.
Hopefully we can see more Gengars with a non-cancer set.

Second:
:ss/groudon-primal::ss/kyogre-primal:
These bois (or rather their abilities) are back in the meta after their brief hiatus. They went from breaking the code to breaking the metagame.
The council is pretty much agreed that weather is problematic and needs to go. However there is still some disagreement as to the best way to manage removing them from the metagame.

We could restrict certain weather-summoning abilities directly. This most assuredly removes the problematic aspect, but also removes most if not all weather from the metagame. This is a bit of a nuclear option, but we would like to hear if you believe it is the best one. Which weathers specifically do you find problematic?

We could ban (as in fully ban, not restrict) certain speed doubling abilities. A restriction would not work as the majority of and the best of the abusers of these abilities have it as their natural ability. This would prevent the
banworthy sweepers utilizing Primordial Sea + Swift Swim or Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, but we should keep in mind that banning abilities from natural abusers is something we have so far only done to stifle uncompetitive elements in the metagame and ideally it would stay that way.

We could ban specific abusers of this strategy. Do you think Barraskewda is the only problematic weather abuser? Let us know and why!

Please do not restrict your thinking to only the Primal Weathers. We wish to know what you think is the right way forward for all types of weather; which can stay as they are, which need restrictions of some sort placed on them and which are fine. Which aspect of our weather abusers is the best to remove in order to leave the metagame as full and as balanced as possible.
I don't personally think the Primal Weathers are too broken, like I said in my previous post. If the community feels like they are a problem, I think the best solution is the do [Weather]+[Speed Weather] across the board.
Pokemon like Excadrill, Sand Rush Dracozolt, and Arctozolt don't see much play currently, but only because if they tried to abuse their weather, the Primal Weathers would just block them out. Remove Chlorophyll+Desolate Land and Swift Swim+Primordial Sea, and Sand Rush+Sand Stream and Slush Rush+Hail becomes a problem. You'd also get Swift Swim+Drizzle being broken and Drought+Chlorophyll being broken too as well.
But I do think that the Primal Weathers make the meta more interesting and how the weathers get balanced out by the fact that you can't hold items like Life Orb or how common things like Pex or priority keep it in check.

Other things that have come up recently include...

Tinted Lens
Triage
Terrains

All of these have been brought up in various places, and the council would love to hear more on what people think about them and why. With plenty of examples and replays preferably ;)
Tinted Lens, really good and I have talked plenty about it. It provided great pressuring tools against defensive cores that rely on having lots of resistances.
Triage is also great, but with how limited the moves are, it's not too hard to manage.
Terrains really keep the metagame from being a mess and are a great addition. While some might think that Psychic Terrain + Expanding Force or something might be over the edge, I think only Tapu Lele could be a little bit over the edge in terms of brokeness. Adaptability, Sheer Force, and Tinted Lens are insanely good on Tapu Lele.
 
Sleep Clause Mod is being replaced by Sleep Moves Clause
Rejoice!
The council is pretty much agreed that weather is problematic and needs to go. However there is still some disagreement as to the best way to manage removing them from the metagame.
My preferred solution is to restrict Primordial Sea, Desolate Land, Drizzle and Drought. I don’t think Delta Steam is unhealthy, so leaving that out. I dislike the idea of banning Swift Swim/Chlorophyll outright and prefer the notion of restricting abilities over bans, but do acknowledge that this has more collateral damage. We would likely see more Primal Weather users than weather teams if we went the other route, so I’m sympathetic to a hard ban on Swift Swim/Chlorophyll. My least preferred option is complex banning the combination, because complex bans are sad.

Tinted Lens
Triage
Terrains
I have not found any of these to be as broken as sleep or weather. Tinted Lens still has the potential to be strong but losing Band/Specs hurts a lot. Triage, like in AAA, is really hard to play around if you forget to bring counter play, but I feel enough counterplay exists that it’s a healthy component of the meta.

I don’t think Terrains are broken, but Surge Surfer may be for the same reasons as Swift Swim/Chlorophyll. I would support looking into restricting/banning that as well, but currently at least do not find other Terrain aspects suspectable.
 
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I think that Eterrain is going to be an absolute FORCE in this meta.Between the new tools that Koko gets,Regieleki with Ice coverage,the ability for you to use whatever the heck you want with Surge Surfer(including stuff to kill Grounds),and Zera using either BU Transistor boosted PFists or Regen Volt Switch,and Eterrain is...kinda strong.
Ive found surge surfer weavile great in that it not only deals with grounds and is an excelent revenge killer it also outspeeds desolate land venu and adamant barraskewda
 
A couple more updates!
First:

Sleep Clause Mod is being replaced by Sleep Moves Clause, which "Bans all moves that induce sleep, such as Hypnosis". The council agrees that sleep is too uncompetitive and broken a mechanic to be allowed without some restriction "and the proof is in the fact that sleep clause mod changes how the game works just to try and balance it."

Rather than use the complex Sleep Clause Mod we believe it is simpler and more in tune with Smogon tiering policy to use the Sleep Moves Clause.

To be clear, the full list of moves that are being banned is:
Hypnosis, Lovely Kiss, Sing, Sleep Powder, Spore, Yawn

tagging Kris

Second:
:ss/groudon-primal::ss/kyogre-primal:
These bois (or rather their abilities) are back in the meta after their brief hiatus. They went from breaking the code to breaking the metagame.
The council is pretty much agreed that weather is problematic and needs to go. However there is still some disagreement as to the best way to manage removing them from the metagame.

We could restrict certain weather-summoning abilities directly. This most assuredly removes the problematic aspect, but also removes most if not all weather from the metagame. This is a bit of a nuclear option, but we would like to hear if you believe it is the best one. Which weathers specifically do you find problematic?

We could ban (as in fully ban, not restrict) certain speed doubling abilities. A restriction would not work as the majority of and the best of the abusers of these abilities have it as their natural ability. This would prevent the
banworthy sweepers utilizing Primordial Sea + Swift Swim or Desolate Land + Chlorophyll, but we should keep in mind that banning abilities from natural abusers is something we have so far only done to stifle uncompetitive elements in the metagame and ideally it would stay that way.

We could ban specific abusers of this strategy. Do you think Barraskewda is the only problematic weather abuser? Let us know and why!

Please do not restrict your thinking to only the Primal Weathers. We wish to know what you think is the right way forward for all types of weather; which can stay as they are, which need restrictions of some sort placed on them and which are fine. Which aspect of our weather abusers is the best to remove in order to leave the metagame as full and as balanced as possible.

Other things that have come up recently include...

Tinted Lens
Triage
Terrains

All of these have been brought up in various places, and the council would love to hear more on what people think about them and why. With plenty of examples and replays preferably ;)
Sleep - That's a smart idea, it was getting silly.

Weather - I have read all of the above arguments and I totally see how keeping the Harsh Weathers would balance the weather wars, BUT I strongly believe that it's extremely unfair to a multitude of unused mons to keep Harsh Weather in the meta.
It's not because it's broken, it's more because it ruins a wide variety of pokemon and abilities that don't see the light of day.
All weather abilities would be more useful on top of any other new great combo for mons like Actozolt or Excadrill or even Sandslash-Alola. Not to mention the further possibilities with mons that have Hurricane or Thunder or Solar Blade.
Screenshot 2021-10-08 034728.png

In conclusion, I honestly think just banning Primordial Sea and Desolate Land as they restrict a lot of other strategies and for me, are centralising only because of how frequently I see it. I know its not the best argument, but it's a fair one at least.

Tinted Lens - It's a little overpowered mainly because it's so unpredictable and can be used on so many viable mons, but I don't believe it's ban worthy at all, not yet anyway.

Triage - It's been said a few times already, there a many viable checks to the users of these mons and although I think the ability is broken, the possible users of it balance out the conclusion, which is Triage is not banworthy.

Terrains - Not even near ban-able especially whilst there's any weather in the meta. However, Tapu Lele and Alakazam are excellent users and Surge Surfer is scary and can be unpredictable, so there may be ban somewhere down the line, but I don't think Terrains are as banworthy as weather (particularly Harsh Weather.

Thank you for reading my thoughts, I will endeavour to provide some replays and info when it's collected!

:)
 

ausma

which witch
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Hi, loved this meta in its inception and now that it's OM of the month I've been playing around a lot; I'll give my thoughts on everything, as well as give my experience with weather (and a team for you guys to try out)!

Weather

:ss/pelipper::ss/torkoal:

To preface things: I think weather is an incredibly powerful archetype, no matter which weather you opt to build around. There are a lot of incredible wallbreakers like Victini, Darmanitan, Garchomp, and Urshifu-R that massively benefit from having the ability to outspeed the entire metagame at will, and in numerous cases, having their main STABs juiced up in the process. It's extremely hard to switch into these Pokemon with offensive counterplay consistently, since they'll likely be outspeeding or utterly blasting everything anyway, and they have the merit of being able to switch up their moves, which can be particularly devastating when you consider how not being Choice-locked is such a variable attribute in such a fast, offensive metagame where momentum is really important. Urshifu-R and Garchomp deserve special mentions as Pokemon that have access to boosting, meaning that they can seize games really violently if you don't have a dedicated check. Giving either of them a free turn can mean losing on the spot if you're not careful, or unless you're running something like Tangrowth.

In particular, I've had a lot of success with Rain, featuring Swift Swim Urshifu-R, Gorilla Tactics Barraskewda (No-boosting Knock Off, fuck yeah), Intimidate Tornadus-T, Regenerator Swampert, and Refrigerate Regieleki, which you can check out here if you're interested in giving it a try.

:swampert::regieleki::pelipper::barraskewda::urshifu-rapid-strike::tornadus-therian:

The main, consistent form of counterplay to weather archetypes as a whole I've noticed, are primal weathers, which, depending on the matchup, can lead to teams being near hard-countered. Delta Stream is the least polarizing of them since it doesn't outright provide immunities, but Desolate Land and Primordial Sea both completely block out the primary breaking power of Rain and Sun respectively. Primordial Sea Barraskewda/Kingdra are both really cool anti-sun Pokemon, and you get something pretty similar with Desolate Land Venusaur too.

I actually am not sure if I see the primal weathers as broken presences necessarily, but at the same time it can be insanely hard to stop primal weather abusers from completely prying open teams since stalling out weather is not an option. For this reason I wouldn't be opposed to seeing further action taken against them; though, you could also argue something similar with base weathers being conjoined with speed-boosting abilities like Swift Swim and Chlorophyll. I personally feel since stalling out base weathers is an option, that giving them a shake before taking further action would be a fair call.

Regenerator and Intimidate/Dauntless Shield

:ss/swampert::ss/tornadus-therian::ss/landorus-therian::ss/amoonguss::ss/tangrowth:

Regenerator is bar none the most versatile ability in this format. It single-handedly skyrockets the viability of a plethora of Pokemon with an impressive defensive profile but lack in the longevity necessary to make use of it throughout the game. Intimidate/Dauntless Shield, on the other hand, can be slotted onto Pokemon that naturally boast Regenerator, making nearly every Regenerator Pokemon an extremely reliable pivot, and vice versa. I feel like Intimidate and Dauntless Shield, while seemingly boasting an insignificant difference on paper, actually have very mechanically different executions that make one or the other shine more depending on the kind of Regenerator Pokemon you're aiming to use. Fast and offensive pivots get a lot more mileage out of Intimidate, since they can pass the weakened blows onto teammates, while slower and bulkier dedicated walls tend to benefit more from Dauntless Shield since they actively force more switches and oftentimes lack momentum themselves.

Swampert is likely the best beneficiary of Regenerator. Its defensive typing, great natural bulk, neutrality to Ice, and valuable resistances to Fire-type moves and an outright immunity to Electric-type moves is incredible, and is compounded with access to Stealth Rock and Flip Turn making it a near perfect fit on any offensive team in need of a good bulky pivot and Stealth Rock setter. Landorus-Therian is still pretty good in this format, but with the increased power level of everything and its lack of an Ice-type neutrality make it harder to justify over Swampert. Though, with a Fighting-type resistance and Ground-type immunity, and access to Intimidate to check physical attackers, it is still fantastic and is able to provide its defensive services consistently throughout a game. While these three examples stick out the most to me, I've been use of Kommo-o, Incineroar, and things like Golisopod and Araquanid(!!!!) that do not easily die thanks to Regenerator and are able to last throughout the game and consistently make use of their incredible defensive typings and respective toolkits.

Tornadus-Therian already had access to Regenerator naturally, but Intimidate as its secondary ability makes it a stupidly versatile offensive pivot. Furthermore, thanks to its Grass-type resistance, it and Swampert make an insane Regenerator core that covers a wide variety of the tier, while covering many utilitarian bases between Stealth Rock and Defog. Galarian Slowking, Amoonguss, and Tangrowth with Dauntless Shield are highly durable and in the former's case, can potentially be an incredibly powerful win condition.

Other Discussion Points

Sleep

Good. Not much to say here; I support this call wholeheartedly.

Triage
:conkeldurr::buzzwole::golisopod:

Triage is an ability that shuts down most forms of offense unless you have a bulky Flying-type with longevity. It's very easy to find yourself losing to Triage-boosted attacks from powerful attackers that are naturally difficult to switch into, and generally it's very dangerous to scout out on most Pokemon, and if you don't, you can find yourself losing a key Pokemon in a snap. While I'm not entirely sure if I think it is broken (mainly because the counterplay to its best abusers are generally clear as day), the ability itself is very very powerful and I could see it devolving into an issue from a teambuilding perspective more than anything else.

Tinted Lens
:slowking-galar::weavile:

Tinted Lens is an ability I would like to see banned, personally. As stated numerous times by now, it is extremely difficult to scout without tremendous punishment and dedicated Regenerator cores, and more often than not even once you know what to expect, you can't really stop Tinted Lens users from doing their thing anyway, especially faster users like Weavile.

Terrains
:raichu-alola::zarude:

Terrains are more than fine from my experience, especially considering that there aren't abilities or powerful combinations of users, moves, and abilities aside from Grassy Glide and Surge Surfer respectively that particularly benefit from them. They're good, but I've found they're kind of overrated from my experience, so long as you have some loose forms of counterplay it's not really much of an issue, especially since you see the terrain activate right on switch-in and know what to expect.

If it fits your team.. don't be afraid to use pre-existing items, seriously. While things like Weather rocks are obvious, Choice-items can still be really valuable for immediate breaking power/speed control, and using an Assault Vest can still provide a very solid option against special wallbreakers, and is still more than viable on things like Galarian Slowking. It also really helps that Knock Off is near non-existent, so there's not really a major risk in it, either!
 
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First off, I’m very thankful that Sleep Moves Clause has been implemented.

If weather is to be addressed, I think [weather setting ability] + [speed in weather ability] should be banned first. I like the presence of weather and I want it to exist, but I think it’s too much for the meta to allow both types of abilities on the same mon. If this is implemented then I think PS and DL would be balanced. Unfortunately, their existence would still strangle dedicated weather teams, and should the former be banned then this should be looked at for the same reason. I do not think that banning only PS and DL would solve the problem of weather.

I do not yet have an opinion on Tinted Lens; I intend to play around with it soon. On paper the lack of counterplay certainly seems frustrating. I feel the exact same way about terrains.

As I mentioned in my previous post, Triage is dumb. Probably not broken, but it’s definitely a pain for offense to deal with and a restriction on teambuilding, as Ausma stated. Aside from Pangoro, the Triage abusers aren’t suited for wallbreaking; it’s true that many viable defensive mons can shut them down. However, my faith in Triage never rested on wallbreaking nor sweeping without support. Be patient and they’ll go crazy late game, because it’s not hard to get your opponent into a situation where nothing can stomach either Drain Punch or Leech Life from Buzzwole, especially if it gets Beast Boost going.

Nothing else seems concerning right now. I suspect that Toxapex, Landorus-I, Tapu Lele, and a few others might need to be looked at in the future should any aforementioned things be banned but for now they aren’t on my radar.


I've got a team I've been using on ladder recently, looking for some critiques on it
Starting off with Lando-T, I like the idea of speed control but I agree that Lando isn’t the best pick. I recommend swapping it out with Primordial Sea + Swift Swim Seismitoad, which lets you keep a decently bulky Ground type, a Stealth Rock user (which isn’t choiced), and a Zeraora check but is also much faster and stronger. Physical or special are both fine. If you want to keep pivoting then I’d suggest Barraskewda or Kingdra since they both get Flip Turn; however, Flip Turn isn’t ideal because Desolate Land exists and they’re much less bulky.

Toxapex is fine as is imo. Prankster might not be necessary since your team is robust defensively; if you were to change it I’d suggest Levitate. Even Corrosion could be nice just to poison everything.

Garchomp looks good too. God bless regenerator.

Moltres is fine too if you want to keep it. I’d personally use Mystical Fire instead of Overheat because I dislike stat drops on bulky mons and I’d prefer to rely on other team members for offensive pressure. If you were to replace it I’d suggest Magic Guard Talonflame. Same typing, still decently bulky, but its offensive capabilities are far superior. Brave Bird, Roost, and any combo of Bulk Up/Swords Dance, Taunt, or Flare Blitz should work well. This would help a ton against stall teams, which your team is otherwise very weak to.

Ferrothorn looks pretty good. If you dislike its current longevity then I’d suggest Regenerator over Magic Bounce. Magic Bounce isn’t too important for your team since nothing struggles with hazards. If that’s not allowed (Pex naturally has it and Garchomp was given it) then I’d go with Flash Fire.

Zeraora is a little tricky to address since its role on the team isn’t too well-defined. Tbh it looks like it was just slapped on at the end because you weren’t sure what to put in the last slot. If so I respect that because that’s how a lot of my teams end up lol. I think your team needs more of an offensive presence than what Zeraora can offer. Some good mons could be Weavile, Rillaboom, Gengar, or Tapu Lele. There are a ton of cool options if you just want to slap on a threat in this team slot so honestly just use whatever mon looks fun, whether or not it’s among those suggestions.

AP5Fanboy here is an importable team with the changes I suggested https://pokepast.es/d9e96bdbc629f065
 
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