My brain is too fries rn
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Multifaction Recruitment Mafia - Night 13 (Deadline: 17/01 10:00pm GMT/5:00pm EST)
- Thread starter imperfectluck
- Start date
imperfectluck
Banned deucer.
A mysterious voice suddenly speaks up!
YYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH
wryyyyyyy
In my view, what’s happened is unacceptable.
IPL has revealed everything what Water has been doing this game to the other factions after being “concerned about fair play”. This happened after we assembled a strong, 15-ish team of neutrals that we work with closely and have quickly reached a strong advantage in the game (6-4-4 with knowledge of 5 members of opposing factions, better roles, and more allies).
We assembled this team through a variety of methods. I made a long, detailed pitch to TBZ, Drookez, Lind, Mat, Rssp, Derz, and Waffles, copied below.
Our other sheep were collected through different methods. Charlie, to my great regret, was lied to. We were going to use his one-shot and we were never recharge of recruit him. He came along since he thought I could recharge him infinite times and that our roles would work well together. IAVH, CNG, and OJ were working closely with Lind, who reached out to them before anyone else did. Ehmcee we sweet talked. Genisu I blustered a bit and impressed.
I reject, on behalf of everyone that we’ve worked with, in the strongest of terms that we have violated any spirit of fair play. Even the accusation is disgusting. We worked together because we thought it was in our own interest. Nobody signed up in this game to play together. Nobody has thought about throwing. I have never allied with most of the people I worked with this game (the only people I have worked with before are Rssp and Drookez).
It is completely unacceptable to come to the conclusion that we are cheating based off this. It is, somehow, even more unacceptable and odious to take this an exaggerated caricature of these facts to the other factions in the game, where IPL has more friends, and ask them to weigh in on the matter.
This is not the first time the people that IPL has openly shown preference to those other factions. I asked IPL if we were allowed to copy logs to other players, and IPL said that I was not. I told him that after being told by LN that it was ok to do so, LN and I copied logs to each other. For this, I was issued a warning. After being incredibly mad at finding out that Sam has been asking potential recruits for logs to prove their fealty, the rules were changed. When I break a rule, even unknowingly, even in good spirit, I am issued a warning. When IPL's friends do it, the rules are corrected.
I resign in protest for the sake of the hours I have spent on this game in good faith. It's great to see so many people join this game and to see the generations of Smogon collide. It's disappointing then to see such a unification end out of impulsive decisions by a sneaky, biased host.
IPL has revealed everything what Water has been doing this game to the other factions after being “concerned about fair play”. This happened after we assembled a strong, 15-ish team of neutrals that we work with closely and have quickly reached a strong advantage in the game (6-4-4 with knowledge of 5 members of opposing factions, better roles, and more allies).
We assembled this team through a variety of methods. I made a long, detailed pitch to TBZ, Drookez, Lind, Mat, Rssp, Derz, and Waffles, copied below.
Right now, mercs (which i assume we all are) have no wincon
This means that we CANNOT WIN unless we get recruited. I understand that you win when there's only mercanaries left but that wincon will never reasonably happen, because recruitment has the highest action prio, can't be blocked or interfered, and can be passed down. So the only way to actually even STOP faction growth is to kill members of the faction. If you want to wipe out an entire faction, you have to kill their entire faction + exactly the person they recruit that night. Odds are not good.
Mercenaries will die without protection from a faction that share a wincon. Your odds of surviving and getting recruited by the winning faction get lower and lower as the game goes on.
This means that you need to maximize your chance at getting recruited now, above anything else. Even at the risk of getting killed yourself.
My idea of maximizing my chance at getting recruited is to assemble a really tight, really cohesive, really HONEST group of people together. Assuming we're all mercs (and if one is a leader, great, let's just work for them). Then, we should act like we all have the same wincon, be super honest with each other, coordinate actions and voting and make ourselves a KNOWN FORCE.
From a factional leader perspective, they'd much rather recruit a member of us (so that we can influence the rest of the group) than to kill us (although they might do this as well, but remember, the priority is to maximize the recruitment chance!)
Obviously an element of this is timing. Night 0, we can't do anything. First few nights, leaders will recruit friends and people with social connections as priority before making a gameplay recruitment. So we should start building this team, but really only reveal our cohesiveness and strength later down the line.
This means that we CANNOT WIN unless we get recruited. I understand that you win when there's only mercanaries left but that wincon will never reasonably happen, because recruitment has the highest action prio, can't be blocked or interfered, and can be passed down. So the only way to actually even STOP faction growth is to kill members of the faction. If you want to wipe out an entire faction, you have to kill their entire faction + exactly the person they recruit that night. Odds are not good.
Mercenaries will die without protection from a faction that share a wincon. Your odds of surviving and getting recruited by the winning faction get lower and lower as the game goes on.
This means that you need to maximize your chance at getting recruited now, above anything else. Even at the risk of getting killed yourself.
My idea of maximizing my chance at getting recruited is to assemble a really tight, really cohesive, really HONEST group of people together. Assuming we're all mercs (and if one is a leader, great, let's just work for them). Then, we should act like we all have the same wincon, be super honest with each other, coordinate actions and voting and make ourselves a KNOWN FORCE.
From a factional leader perspective, they'd much rather recruit a member of us (so that we can influence the rest of the group) than to kill us (although they might do this as well, but remember, the priority is to maximize the recruitment chance!)
Obviously an element of this is timing. Night 0, we can't do anything. First few nights, leaders will recruit friends and people with social connections as priority before making a gameplay recruitment. So we should start building this team, but really only reveal our cohesiveness and strength later down the line.
Our other sheep were collected through different methods. Charlie, to my great regret, was lied to. We were going to use his one-shot and we were never recharge of recruit him. He came along since he thought I could recharge him infinite times and that our roles would work well together. IAVH, CNG, and OJ were working closely with Lind, who reached out to them before anyone else did. Ehmcee we sweet talked. Genisu I blustered a bit and impressed.
I reject, on behalf of everyone that we’ve worked with, in the strongest of terms that we have violated any spirit of fair play. Even the accusation is disgusting. We worked together because we thought it was in our own interest. Nobody signed up in this game to play together. Nobody has thought about throwing. I have never allied with most of the people I worked with this game (the only people I have worked with before are Rssp and Drookez).
It is completely unacceptable to come to the conclusion that we are cheating based off this. It is, somehow, even more unacceptable and odious to take this an exaggerated caricature of these facts to the other factions in the game, where IPL has more friends, and ask them to weigh in on the matter.
This is not the first time the people that IPL has openly shown preference to those other factions. I asked IPL if we were allowed to copy logs to other players, and IPL said that I was not. I told him that after being told by LN that it was ok to do so, LN and I copied logs to each other. For this, I was issued a warning. After being incredibly mad at finding out that Sam has been asking potential recruits for logs to prove their fealty, the rules were changed. When I break a rule, even unknowingly, even in good spirit, I am issued a warning. When IPL's friends do it, the rules are corrected.
I resign in protest for the sake of the hours I have spent on this game in good faith. It's great to see so many people join this game and to see the generations of Smogon collide. It's disappointing then to see such a unification end out of impulsive decisions by a sneaky, biased host.
Yeah that's the main reason I'm just existing and not really giving a shit rn
imperfectluck
Banned deucer.
It recently came to light for the host that members of the EIMM community have been collaborating and sharing roles together quite early, and working together to ensure their combined victory. This is standard practice in EIMM, and collaborating is also encouraged by the rules of this game. However, what appeared to look like pregame agreements is something seriously frowned upon typically by the host’s community, and as a result the host informed the Fire Faction and Agape about the issue to consult on what should be done. The main reason for this suspicion is an incident where a freelance player with a one-shot ability was using the ability for the sake of a faction when he wasn’t even part of a faction yet. From now on, all one-shot abilities that freelancers carry cannot be used until that player is part of a faction. The host agrees that this was a mistake made in the heat of the moment. After some talks, the conclusion was that this issue stems from a severe cultural different between the playstyle of the EIMM community and the old Smogon community for which this game was intended for. The solution decided upon consulting with the Circus Maximus moderators is for both sides to move on with the game as is. The Water Faction is hence informed that the Fire Faction was informed of the existence of a large group of EIMM players collaborating with the Water Faction. Agape was also informed, but he will voluntarily withdraw from the game and stop talking to the Grass Faction. We hope to have your understanding.
Duskfall98 has been subbed out for realiti. Sorry that he had to sacrifice playing in order to moderate this incident.
Duskfall98 has been subbed out for realiti. Sorry that he had to sacrifice playing in order to moderate this incident.
Merry Christmas!
huh
In my view, what’s happened is unacceptable.
Da Letter El has revealed everything what Electric has been doing this game to the other factions after being “concerned about overwhelming cuteness”. This happened after we assembled a strong, 3-ish team of billyrollers that we work with closely and have quickly reached a strong advantage in the game (3-0-0 with knowledge of 0 members of opposing factions, worse roles, and alcohol).
We assembled this team through a variety of methods. I made a long, detailed pitch to Ditto, Paperblade, Ampharos, and IPL, however none of them listened.
Da Letter El has revealed everything what Electric has been doing this game to the other factions after being “concerned about overwhelming cuteness”. This happened after we assembled a strong, 3-ish team of billyrollers that we work with closely and have quickly reached a strong advantage in the game (3-0-0 with knowledge of 0 members of opposing factions, worse roles, and alcohol).
We assembled this team through a variety of methods. I made a long, detailed pitch to Ditto, Paperblade, Ampharos, and IPL, however none of them listened.
i love circus maximus
imperfectluck
Banned deucer.
askaninjask has subbed in for apricity.
This is false. If you are a merc your win con is to survive. You win if all 3 factions are eliminated. This is very unlikely so it's in your best interests to get recruited at some stage of the game. And to choose your recruitment team wisely.
If mercs are just blindly banding together to help one faction, even with too many of them to realistically be recruited by that team when they are going to choose strong roles over people just buddying, that is NOT the spirit of Viva.
Viva you form small alliances to go to teams together, you lie and scheme, you look out for YOURSELF until you are recruited. It looks like one of the points of contention is a merc using their one-shot to benefit Water.
THAT IS TERRIBLE PLAY, objectively. You have no value to a faction after using it. Maybe you think they will be loyal and recruit you anyway but everything about how hal speaks and interacts says to me you're disposable.
A few dozen old Smogoners who MADE these games and metas all came back for a reunion game, based on the Viva format and logic. Please just be respectful of everyone's time and effort and play to the Viva win con/style instead of the EIMM style (which is a descendant of Viva/freelancer games, so respect your roots).
Freelancers let's get it.
It recently came to light for the host that members of the RBY OU community have been collaborating and sharing roles together quite early, and working together to ensure that after this game finishes, a further 2 games will be played to ensure a Bo3 victory. This is standard practice in RBY OU, and collaborating is also encouraged by the rules of this game. However, what appeared to look like Bo1 conspiracies is something seriously frowned upon by the RBY OU community, and as a result the host informed the TD's and Agape for some reason about the issue to consult on what should be done. The main reaosn for this suspicion is an incident where a freelance player with a Bo1 ability was using the ability for the sake of a meta when they hadn't even played it yet. From now on, all Bo1 opinions that freelancers have cannot be concluded until that player reaches at least 1500 Elo on the RBY OU Pokemon Showdown Ladder The host agrees that this was a mistake made in the heat of the moment. After some talks, the conclusion was that this issue stems from a severe cultural difference between the playstyle of the Bo1 community, and the Bo3 community which this game was intended for. The solution decided upon consuilting with the Circus Maximus tournament directors is for both sides to move on with the game as is. The Bo3 faction is hence informed that the Bo1 faction was informed of the existence of a large group of RBY OU players collaborating with the Bo3 faction. Agape was also informed, for some reason. We hope to have your understanding.
To Hal: All I can do is react to what is told to me. I was told, no-holds-barred, that you had other players instantaneously sending you role PMs on receipt, during N0, at a point in time when no one was allowed to talk about the game. I was also told it was strongly suspected that you had these players sign up as a pregame arrangement for the sole purpose of propping you up without them having any desire to win on their own. Yes, I said that the only acceptable solution to that was to godkill you and give Water a compensatory recruit to even out the numbers. I also told Tommy many times that I still felt you played tremendously well and that 98% of what you did was above board. He can confirm all of this to you independently.
If I was misinformed as to what you did or gained an advantage from then obviously my stance would be different. I told Tommy I did not care about the logs issue because I both don’t and because yes, I thought it was ok as well and had asked some players for them. The logs were never the issue and even the rule has been retconned.
I do wish you hadn’t posted what you posted publicly, while much of that was suspected / pseudo common knowledge some of it was not.
My take remains that if anyone received role PMs immediately on receipt during N0, that person needs to be removed from the game. Lesser offenses can be warnings or whatever, I certainly accept my fair share of blame on the logs issue.
I will plan to remain in the game because from my POV Hal subbing out for aska is akin to what my suggested remedy was anyway, and that was assuming Hal was guilty, which he is denying. I will not be commenting on this matter any longer until postgame except to select non-players privately.
If I was misinformed as to what you did or gained an advantage from then obviously my stance would be different. I told Tommy I did not care about the logs issue because I both don’t and because yes, I thought it was ok as well and had asked some players for them. The logs were never the issue and even the rule has been retconned.
I do wish you hadn’t posted what you posted publicly, while much of that was suspected / pseudo common knowledge some of it was not.
My take remains that if anyone received role PMs immediately on receipt during N0, that person needs to be removed from the game. Lesser offenses can be warnings or whatever, I certainly accept my fair share of blame on the logs issue.
I will plan to remain in the game because from my POV Hal subbing out for aska is akin to what my suggested remedy was anyway, and that was assuming Hal was guilty, which he is denying. I will not be commenting on this matter any longer until postgame except to select non-players privately.
Whoever told you this needs to recant and Tommy needs to confirm that none of this is true
imperfectluck
Banned deucer.
For the reasons outlined in Yeti's post, the appearance of such a large group of players coordinating (and being from the same community) seemed suspicious, but after reviewing the logs, I believe apricity/Hal to be innocent of pregaming. I stated that it was my thought that pregaming took place via a method such as n0/d1 role sharing and copy pasting, but there is no hard evidence of that and the copy pasting rule was removed anyways, so my apologies for the misunderstanding.
The fact that you reached out to your friends and other players in the game, and other faction leaders, with your suspicions BEFORE reviewing logs is wild behavior.
You did not simply misunderstand. You actively propagated a LIE that I cheated with my friends. Even now you continue to say things like “there’s no hard evidence about n0 role copy pasting” when the truth of the matter is that there is NO EVIDENCE BECAUSE IT NEVER HAPPENED .
Your apology is not accepted, but I’m done with you and the game.
