SS OU My first competitive team ever Gen 8

[Jaystreet]

Hey ladies and gents! This here is my first time getting into competitive pokemon battling. I'm trying to either go hyper offensive or balanced. Any type of advice, teaching, or criticism is appreciated. I need to learn the ins and outs of this game. Without further stalling, here is my SnSH team.

Cinderace @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Court Change
- Pyro Ball
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn

This mon is a great offensive utility.

HJK is just a powerhouse of a move for all kinds of situations. Great coverages Ex. Tyranitars, switch ins, hydriegon.
Pyroball is STAB.
U-turn is for pivots and chip shots

Dragapult @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt

A blistering special sweeper and one of my favorite galar additions. Its typing makes it have great resistances. I chose choice specs for the additional power even though I do get locked in. I was thinking of using expert belt instead so that way I'm not locked into a move against switch ins.
The move pool is chosen for different reasons.
Fire blast is used to get through ferothorns, excadrill,corviknight, Rotom-M, etc.
Thunderbolt can be used for switch ins. Toxapex,corcaknight, mandibuzz, hawlucha, gyrados.
Shadow ball is STAB
Draco Meteor is Last Rrsort STAB and dragon coverage. To take out major threats fast.

Excadrill @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin

Excadrill's ability to compress the roles of a wallbreaker with Swords Dance, a late-game sweeper, and an amazing defensive typing in Ground / Steel paired with Rapid Spin support make it a top-tier threat. I chose mold breaker to destroy excadrill checks through the rotoms and ohko mimkyu disguise.
Rapid spin is to help with hazards setups.


Grimmsnarl @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spirit Break
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt

I've noticed that with dual screens setup, my teammates can survive hits that normally would destroy them. I like using grimmsanrl for setting up and for a fairy coverage with spirit break. Funny thing about spirit break is that it lowers special attackers by 1 stage as well. Very nice against special sweepers. I use light clay to extend my screens and taunt on defensive pokemon that think they can stall or setup hazards.


Hawlucha @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Substitute

I love hawlucha's typing of flying and fighting. Its hidden ability unburden is used to great extent with close combat and white herb. Allowing this thing to fly through teams. If you come across a wall, just substitute and use Swords dance to get through them. Brave bird is a big offensive weapon used to sweep unfavorable match ups as well if close combat doesnt do the trick.

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 44 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Thunder Wave

Choice Scarf Rotom-W can act as a pivot as well as a revenge killer to huge threats such as Gyarados, Sand Rush Excadrill, and Barraskewda, allowing it to fit on many teams. It's great at gaining momentum with Volt Switch because most Ground-types are 2HKOed by Hydro Pump, deterring them from switching in. Trick allows Rotom-W to cripple defensive Pokemon such as Galarian Corsola, Seismitoad, and Ferrothorn. Thunder Wave cripples most offensive threats, including common switch-ins such as Dragapult and Hydreigon. Thunderbolt can be used over Volt Switch for more consistency against Substitute Gyarados. The given EV spread is used to allow Rotom-W to outspeed and OHKO +1 Gyarados with Volt Switch.

So overall I want to say thanks for reading, and hope this is a decent enough start to my competitive experience for gen 8.

 

[Jaystreet]

Bump

 

[Dole Duck]

Good day mr/mrs. Jaystreet! :)
Welcome to competitive, and i hope you're having fun so far :)
I'd like to start off by saying you are correct, this is a very hyperoffensively-based team, though its not a balanced team, but HO is a great playstyle for people who are trying to get into competitive!

So here are some points i tend to focus on when building or rating HO teams;

1. The playstyle for HO depends on making certain offensive plays to get the right matchup, and your team needs to be able to break your opponents team down quickly. The team needs to be able to do this.
2. A HO team will focus on breaking your opponents team down fast, but will never find a matchup where it is more usefull to wall your opponents team.
3. The team needs to be able to check, outspeed or be able to pivot once or twice against the most common threats to HO; pokemon that are faster than your own and/or have priority.
4. No potential pivot can loose all offensive momentum, without giving valuable support. HO teams often benefit from having a defensive backbone however, as long as there are only 1 or 2 and follows the credentials mentioned.
5. The team must have pokemon that can either break or take advantage of opposing defensive walls.

Of course there are many more things to think of, but this is the mere basics that i tend to go by. :)

Here is a replay of me trying your team; https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1049155113
Notice that both dragapult, gastrodon and ditto are problematic, as well as corviknight is annoying.

Now for the rate:
The first thing i notice when using your team is that many of the pokemon struggle against defensive pokemon such as pelliper, seismitoad, gastrodon, mandibuzz and corsola-galar. These are pokemon that are very commonly seen in the current metagame, therefore your team needs to be able to deal with these to succeed. To go with this issue im going to put up a few others that we can deal with at the same time here; Your team would benefit greatly from having reliable rocks (and maybe spikes), as court change on cinderace could loose you valuable momentum and let your opponent get the switch advantage. At the same time, mold breaker excadrill and rain teams are a lurking threat that needs to be dealt with. Trick room hatterene is also not uncommon to see, and is highly threatening to HO teams.

For these 5 i'd like to propose a simple change;
We switch rotom-w into ferrothorn.
->
Seismitoad is a very reliable steal rocker, and often a staple on offensive teams in this meta. It deals well with weather teams, its the most reliable pivot against dracozolt and dracovish, it checks / counters bisharp and has a variety of moves that give great support for your team.


Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Grass Knot

This set has grass knot for opposing seismitoad and gastrodon (though that doesnt deal enough damage). Its got max defensive evs to be able to deal with the pokemon it needs to, being dracozolt, dracovish, rain and sand abusers.

We unfortunately still havent dealt with all the pokemon i mentioned earlier, which we are going to look at now. The problems now are pelliper, mandibuzz and corsola-galar. I'll also add the remaining problems for the team, so we can fix them simultaneously; your team has some problems with rain, sand, scarf users and fast pokemon like dragapult.

For these problems im suggesting we change
Excadrill into Dracozolt
->
and
Grimmsnarl into Bisharp
->




Dracozolt @ Wide Lens
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Claw
- Aerial Ace
- Fire Fang

Now, the Dracozolt is something i suggest because of its great wallbreaking power. Its a pokemon tht is generaly hard to switch into, and it breaks down pokemon like mandibuzz, rotom-forms, pelliper, corsola-galar (doesnt switch in), corviknight, conkeldur. All pokemon that are dificult for HO to deal with. It synergises well with bisharp and cinderace, as seismitoad, and lets you chip off HP from those pokemon for bisharp and cinderace later. Excadrills main purpose on this team has been for rotom-forms, toxapex and trying to set up, but having a pokemon like dracozolt will prove much more usefull as it doesnt need to set up to deal good damage.




Bisharp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Throat Chop

Bisharp is great for your team. It gives you priority in sucker punch, allowing you to revengekill pokemon as dragapult and gengar, it can take a hit from sub np hydreigon and break the sub with iron head, and it can setup +2 on corsola-galar, soak up the will-o-wisp with lum berry and kill it with throat chop. Bisharp also has defiant, punishing defoggers such as corviknight (as long as it doesnt have body press) and mandibuzz. This is however a pokemon that benefits greatly from hazzards and previous chip on the opposing team, so make sure you dont prematurely go for sd early and hope for a sweep.
While grimmsnarl isnt a bad pokemon for your team originally, i feel that your team doesnt benefit that much from screens, and using ferrothorn and grimmsnarl takes a way a lot of options for your team offensively.


Lastly i have a few set changes for your team;

Dragapult:
Choice Specs -> Choice Scarf. This allows dragapult to outspeed jolly excadrill in sand and a couple of swift swim users in rain.
Thunderbolt -> u-turn. I believe getting to momentum with u-turn is better than having the tbolt coverage. Draco Meteor hits most of the pokemon tbolt is useful for.



The team:



Importable: https://pokepast.es/66f0838f834c6d10

I hope this helps, and i hope you have much fun and success playing competitive pokemon! :)
(Please not that normally i dont like changing more than 2 pokemon on a team, but i feel that this is how the team will be the most effective. During the rate i did however try a variant where i only swapped grimmsnarl fo rbisharp and rotom for ferro, and kept hawlucha, so if you wish, you can try tht out.)
Also note; you will need to play a bit smart against bisharp. :)

 

[Jaystreet]

Good day mr/mrs. Jaystreet! :)
Welcome to competitive, and i hope you're having fun so far :)
I'd like to start off by saying you are correct, this is a very hyperoffensively-based team, though its not a balanced team, but HO is a great playstyle for people who are trying to get into competitive!

So here are some points i tend to focus on when building or rating HO teams;

1. The playstyle for HO depends on making certain offensive plays to get the right matchup, and your team needs to be able to break your opponents team down quickly. The team needs to be able to do this.
2. A HO team will focus on breaking your opponents team down fast, but will never find a matchup where it is more usefull to wall your opponents team.
3. The team needs to be able to check, outspeed or be able to pivot once or twice against the most common threats to HO; pokemon that are faster than your own and/or have priority.
4. No potential pivot can loose all offensive momentum, without giving valuable support. HO teams often benefit from having a defensive backbone however, as long as there are only 1 or 2 and follows the credentials mentioned.
5. The team must have pokemon that can either break or take advantage of opposing defensive walls.

Of course there are many more things to think of, but this is the mere basics that i tend to go by. :)

Here is a replay of me trying your team; https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1049155113
Notice that both dragapult, gastrodon and ditto are problematic, as well as corviknight is annoying.

Now for the rate:
The first thing i notice when using your team is that many of the pokemon struggle against defensive pokemon such as pelliper, seismitoad, gastrodon, mandibuzz and corsola-galar. These are pokemon that are very commonly seen in the current metagame, therefore your team needs to be able to deal with these to succeed. To go with this issue im going to put up a few others that we can deal with at the same time here; Your team would benefit greatly from having reliable rocks (and maybe spikes), as court change on cinderace could loose you valuable momentum and let your opponent get the switch advantage. At the same time, mold breaker excadrill and rain teams are a lurking threat that needs to be dealt with. Trick room hatterene is also not uncommon to see, and is highly threatening to HO teams.

For these 5 i'd like to propose a simple change;
We switch rotom-w into ferrothorn.
->
Seismitoad is a very reliable steal rocker, and often a staple on offensive teams in this meta. It deals well with weather teams, its the most reliable pivot against dracozolt and dracovish, it checks / counters bisharp and has a variety of moves that give great support for your team.


Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Grass Knot

This set has grass knot for opposing seismitoad and gastrodon (though that doesnt deal enough damage). Its got max defensive evs to be able to deal with the pokemon it needs to, being dracozolt, dracovish, rain and sand abusers.

We unfortunately still havent dealt with all the pokemon i mentioned earlier, which we are going to look at now. The problems now are pelliper, mandibuzz and corsola-galar. I'll also add the remaining problems for the team, so we can fix them simultaneously; your team has some problems with rain, sand, scarf users and fast pokemon like dragapult.

For these problems im suggesting we change
Excadrill into Dracozolt
->
and
Grimmsnarl into Bisharp
->




Dracozolt @ Wide Lens
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Claw
- Aerial Ace
- Fire Fang

Now, the Dracozolt is something i suggest because of its great wallbreaking power. Its a pokemon tht is generaly hard to switch into, and it breaks down pokemon like mandibuzz, rotom-forms, pelliper, corsola-galar (doesnt switch in), corviknight, conkeldur. All pokemon that are dificult for HO to deal with. It synergises well with bisharp and cinderace, as seismitoad, and lets you chip off HP from those pokemon for bisharp and cinderace later. Excadrills main purpose on this team has been for rotom-forms, toxapex and trying to set up, but having a pokemon like dracozolt will prove much more usefull as it doesnt need to set up to deal good damage.




Bisharp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Throat Chop

Bisharp is great for your team. It gives you priority in sucker punch, allowing you to revengekill pokemon as dragapult and gengar, it can take a hit from sub np hydreigon and break the sub with iron head, and it can setup +2 on corsola-galar, soak up the will-o-wisp with lum berry and kill it with throat chop. Bisharp also has defiant, punishing defoggers such as corviknight (as long as it doesnt have body press) and mandibuzz. This is however a pokemon that benefits greatly from hazzards and previous chip on the opposing team, so make sure you dont prematurely go for sd early and hope for a sweep.
While grimmsnarl isnt a bad pokemon for your team originally, i feel that your team doesnt benefit that much from screens, and using ferrothorn and grimmsnarl takes a way a lot of options for your team offensively.


Lastly i have a few set changes for your team;

Dragapult:
Choice Specs -> Choice Scarf. This allows dragapult to outspeed jolly excadrill in sand and a couple of swift swim users in rain.
Thunderbolt -> u-turn. I believe getting to momentum with u-turn is better than having the tbolt coverage. Draco Meteor hits most of the pokemon tbolt is useful for.



The team:



Importable: https://pokepast.es/66f0838f834c6d10

I hope this helps, and i hope you have much fun and success playing competitive pokemon! :)
(Please not that normally i dont like changing more than 2 pokemon on a team, but i feel that this is how the team will be the most effective. During the rate i did however try a variant where i only swapped grimmsnarl fo rbisharp and rotom for ferro, and kept hawlucha, so if you wish, you can try tht out.)
Also note; you will need to play a bit smart against bisharp. :)

You my friend are a lifesaver. I'm sorry I'm just now replying back to you as a lot of life things have happened.

Anyway, I love the additions and explanations behind the changes. It all makes sense, I have had trouble running into bulkier teams. I will give the new additions a try. I'll let you know how it comes out. Do you mind if I add you on discord. I've been looking for more friends to help get me into competitive OU for sometime. I love HO teams and have recently been trying out different mons for a while.

 

[theotherguytm]

You my friend are a lifesaver. I'm sorry I'm just now replying back to you as a lot of life things have happened.

Anyway, I love the additions and explanations behind the changes. It all makes sense, I have had trouble running into bulkier teams. I will give the new additions a try. I'll let you know how it comes out. Do you mind if I add you on discord. I've been looking for more friends to help get me into competitive OU for sometime. I love HO teams and have recently been trying out different mons for a while.

Ok, I'm going to massively disagree with these suggestions. I think you haven't quite understood HO, so I'm going to look over why the changes you recommended are not suitable for HO, and my own suggestions for the team (because just posting about how someone is wrong is bad when someone needs help).

Why I disagree

Let's start from your five rules. I'm going to edit them so you can understand my issues with them.

1. The playstyle for HO depends on making certain offensive plays to get the right matchup, and your team needs to be able to break your opponents team down quickly. The team needs to be able to do this. No issue here.
2. A HO team will focus on breaking your opponents team down fast, but will never find a matchup where it is more usefull to wall your opponents team. Correct.
3. The team needs to be able to check, outspeed or be able to pivot once or twice against the most common threats to HO; pokemon that are faster than your own and/or have priority. Agreeable in principle.
4. No potential pivot can loose all offensive momentum, without giving valuable support. HO teams often benefit from having a defensive backbone however, as long as there are only 1 or 2 and follows the credentials mentioned. Correction: No potential pivot can lose all offensive momentum full stop. Lose momentum, lose the game. As an example, even Cresselia on Trick Room uses Lunar Dance to regain momentum it uses resetting Trick Room. Hazards do not count as valuable enough support to greatly lose momentum, and should thus be provided by role compression and/or a suicide lead. And the definition of a HO defensive backbone is simply bulky setup sweepers most of the time.
5. The team must have pokemon that can either break or take advantage of opposing defensive walls Yes.
6. It is acceptable, and often necessary, to sacrifice mons for momentum or essential support as defined in point 4.

The reason I took the time to point out those flaws is they affect the rest of your rate. Let's go from the top.

Here is a replay of me trying your team; https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1049155113
Notice that both dragapult, gastrodon and ditto are problematic, as well as corviknight is annoying.

Ok, so you don't lead with Grimmsnarl because of the opposing Cinderace. This is a correct play given the team, but indicates Grimm needs a lot more bulk, see below. I have no idea why you went to Hawlucha on turn 3 and not Snarl to get Screens up, especially with your opponent having Lucha checks in the back. That means Grimm has to eat Thunderbolt on the switch. Turn 5 was unfortunate but correct play given the earlier play. Going via Drill into Cinderace burnt valuable Screen time, more important than health a lot of times on HO with your screen setter down. Similar to where you went via Rotom-W to dodge an EQ, letting Dragapult in. Anyway, so my overall assessment from that one replay is the team needs to be more offensive, not less. Rotom-W and Cinderace are both problems with their weak damage, and there's not enough offense to dissuade your opponent going hard into Dragapult and similar plays.

For these 5 i'd like to propose a simple change;
We switch rotom-w into ferrothorn.
->
Seismitoad is a very reliable steal rocker, and often a staple on offensive teams in this meta. It deals well with weather teams, its the most reliable pivot against dracozolt and dracovish, it checks / counters bisharp and has a variety of moves that give great support for your team.


Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Grass Knot

This set has grass knot for opposing seismitoad and gastrodon (though that doesnt deal enough damage). Its got max defensive evs to be able to deal with the pokemon it needs to, being dracozolt, dracovish, rain and sand abusers.

Uhhh. No. Big, big no. Read back over Rules 2 and 4. Toad is the very definition of losing all momentum, and SR support should be provided through role compression and/or a suicide lead. Toad is even a garbage Rock setter to boot. It loses to all hazard removal, and the only reason people run it is to beat Dracovish. No other reason. Adding Toad to this team stops it being a HO team. It then becomes bad Bulky Offense/Balance. Veto this big style.

We unfortunately still havent dealt with all the pokemon i mentioned earlier, which we are going to look at now. The problems now are pelliper, mandibuzz and corsola-galar. I'll also add the remaining problems for the team, so we can fix them simultaneously; your team has some problems with rain, sand, scarf users and fast pokemon like dragapult.

For these problems im suggesting we change
Excadrill into Dracozolt
->
and
Grimmsnarl into Bisharp
->




Dracozolt @ Wide Lens
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Dragon Claw
- Aerial Ace
- Fire Fang

Now, the Dracozolt is something i suggest because of its great wallbreaking power. Its a pokemon tht is generaly hard to switch into, and it breaks down pokemon like mandibuzz, rotom-forms, pelliper, corsola-galar (doesnt switch in), corviknight, conkeldur. All pokemon that are dificult for HO to deal with. It synergises well with bisharp and cinderace, as seismitoad, and lets you chip off HP from those pokemon for bisharp and cinderace later. Excadrills main purpose on this team has been for rotom-forms, toxapex and trying to set up, but having a pokemon like dracozolt will prove much more usefull as it doesnt need to set up to deal good damage.




Bisharp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Throat Chop

Bisharp is great for your team. It gives you priority in sucker punch, allowing you to revengekill pokemon as dragapult and gengar, it can take a hit from sub np hydreigon and break the sub with iron head, and it can setup +2 on corsola-galar, soak up the will-o-wisp with lum berry and kill it with throat chop. Bisharp also has defiant, punishing defoggers such as corviknight (as long as it doesnt have body press) and mandibuzz. This is however a pokemon that benefits greatly from hazzards and previous chip on the opposing team, so make sure you dont prematurely go for sd early and hope for a sweep.
While grimmsnarl isnt a bad pokemon for your team originally, i feel that your team doesnt benefit that much from screens, and using ferrothorn and grimmsnarl takes a way a lot of options for your team offensively.

Getting rid of Snarl is a cardinal sin. Again, the team has stopped being HO and has turned into a bad Bulky Offense. HO needs screens or Webs or anything really that helps you break teams. Dracozolt for Drill is justified on the basis that you don't need setup, when it is the opposite: you NEED setup. Not only that, but Wide Lens Dracozolt is a bad set anyway. You're missing EQ.
As for your threatlist:
Pelipper-Not an issue in of itself, it the Rain it brings that is the issue. But Rain is on the down rn, with Skewda dropping to UU and the most common rain abuser being Vish, who is easy for Dragapult to at worst revenge kill.
Seismitoad, Gastrodon-These are not threats. These are setup fodder. EZ for any HO team worth its salt.
Mandibuzz-Strong wall, but not too dangerous, besides its nasty habit of Defogging Screens.
Corviknight-See above. The Bulk Up set should lose to Grimmsnarl if not carrying Iron Head, and really should not get time to set up.
Corsola-galar-Not an OU mon. Ignore the usage stats. It's Taunt bait and totally useless against any special attacker.

Dragapult:
Choice Specs -> Choice Scarf. This allows dragapult to outspeed jolly excadrill in sand and a couple of swift swim users in rain.
Thunderbolt -> u-turn. I believe getting to momentum with u-turn is better than having the tbolt coverage. Draco Meteor hits most of the pokemon tbolt is useful for.

Yes to the second point, big, big no to the first point. Scarf Dragapult is utter garbage. It doesn't outspeed anything relevant (Dragapult is naturally faster than all relevant Scarfers, and loses all damage output worth speaking of. Partly sacrificing a niche matchup is well worth the damage output.

Now I have more time:

Suggestions

SPOILER
Before we begin: Health Warning: Hawlucha isn't great atm. While I'm keeping it, keep an eye on how useful it is in your games.
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Grimmsnarl: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Grimmsnarl through Reflect: 84-100 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- 0.3% chance to 4HKO
You've seen these calcs so it will come as no surprise that my first recommendation is to have LOADS more bulk on Grimmsnarl. You don't need Atk to set screens, and you don't need speed to use Prankster. Spirit Break should be a deterrent rather than an actual threat. And the masses of physical bulk help you out a ton vs leads like Cinderace and Excadrill. 252 HP / 252+ Def/ 4 SpD should be the way. Remember that Snarl as a Dark type is immune to Prankster, so DON'T Taunt opposing Snarls!
Right, now for the big one:
Remove Cinderace
While Cinderace makes a great offensive pivot, Court Change+Screens is anti-synergy, and Snarl's Taunt does a great job of stopping hazards anyway. This reduces Cinderace to a mediocre attacker/pivot, with no useful Ability or item. You can have U-turn on Dragapult as Dole Duck recommended, just keep in mind HO is less pivoting, more CHARGE! Every turn counts under screens.
Add Conkeldurr
Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
The Speed EVs make you 1 point faster than Aegislash with neutral nature and a 4 EV speed dump and, in a happy coincidence, the HP EVs make your HP 1 less than a multiple of 16, minimising Flame Orb recoil. One of the biggest obstacles to a Lucha sweep ATM is Aegislash, who loves to come in on Conk lacking EQ. This Conk does not lack EQ, but if you pretend it does, one easy kill/massive pile of damage to open the way for Lucha.
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 282-334 (87 - 103%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
While a slow mon like this is traditionally not too great on HO, Conk's raw busting power is hard to overstate. It forms a nice Fighting spam core with Lucha too, where both of them can break down each other's checks, and their contrasts (fast vs slow, Ground vs Flying etc) are perfect for this.
Remove Rotom-W
Rotom-W, especially the Scarf variant is a tricky mon to use RN. It can't hurt the Water Absorber that is on every team rn due to how powerful Vish is. While not strictly outclassed by other Rotom forms it finds itself in tough company with them.
Add Bisharp
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Throat Chop
While I recommend a similar set to Dole Duck, I do so for slightly different reasons. You desperately need a Fairy check of some kind to back Drill up, and Bisharp does that great. Black Glasses are because every bit of extra damage counts, but Bisharp does not like Life Orb recoil. Iron Head hits the Fairies hard enough without a boost. Another boon to Bisharp is it helps discourage the use of Defog through its Defiant Ability. Nothing likes a Bisharp that gets a free Swords Dance just because they wanted to clear Screens and coincidently dropped its Evasion. Though be wary of Corviknight with Body Press.
Adjustments
Replace Substitute on Hawlucha with Thunder Punch. Sub doesn't really help that much, and you are Ditto-proof anyway because of how Unburden works. Thunder Punch lets you break mons like a weakened Toxapex and Corviknight.
Replace Rapid Spin on Excadrill with Stealth Rock. You need something that sets Rocks, and HO is ok with no removal, as you have Snarl to prevent them going up in the first place.
You can try U-turn on Dragapult instead of Thunderbolt as Dole suggested, but the list of mons you hit with that are valuable to dispose of for your team. Certainly keep Specs for its actual damage output, but try U-turn and see how often having T-bolt would help.

Hope this helps! If not, just say here what went wrong and I'm sure someone here will have an answer.

 

[Dole Duck]

You my friend are a lifesaver. I'm sorry I'm just now replying back to you as a lot of life things have happened.

Anyway, I love the additions and explanations behind the changes. It all makes sense, I have had trouble running into bulkier teams. I will give the new additions a try. I'll let you know how it comes out. Do you mind if I add you on discord. I've been looking for more friends to help get me into competitive OU for sometime. I love HO teams and have recently been trying out different mons for a while.

I dont have discord atm, bu till let you know if i ever see the need to get it ;)

 

[Dole Duck]

Ok, I'm going to massively disagree with these suggestions. I think you haven't quite understood HO, so I'm going to look over why the changes you recommended are not suitable for HO, and my own suggestions for the team (because just posting about how someone is wrong is bad when someone needs help).

Why I disagree

Let's start from your five rules. I'm going to edit them so you can understand my issues with them.

The reason I took the time to point out those flaws is they affect the rest of your rate. Let's go from the top.

Ok, so you don't lead with Grimmsnarl because of the opposing Cinderace. This is a correct play given the team, but indicates Grimm needs a lot more bulk, see below. I have no idea why you went to Hawlucha on turn 3 and not Snarl to get Screens up, especially with your opponent having Lucha checks in the back. That means Grimm has to eat Thunderbolt on the switch. Turn 5 was unfortunate but correct play given the earlier play. Going via Drill into Cinderace burnt valuable Screen time, more important than health a lot of times on HO with your screen setter down. Similar to where you went via Rotom-W to dodge an EQ, letting Dragapult in. Anyway, so my overall assessment from that one replay is the team needs to be more offensive, not less. Rotom-W and Cinderace are both problems with their weak damage, and there's not enough offense to dissuade your opponent going hard into Dragapult and similar plays.

Uhhh. No. Big, big no. Read back over Rules 2 and 4. Toad is the very definition of losing all momentum, and SR support should be provided through role compression and/or a suicide lead. Toad is even a garbage Rock setter to boot. It loses to all hazard removal, and the only reason people run it is to beat Dracovish. No other reason. Adding Toad to this team stops it being a HO team. It then becomes bad Bulky Offense/Balance. Veto this big style.

Getting rid of Snarl is a cardinal sin. Again, the team has stopped being HO and has turned into a bad Bulky Offense. HO needs screens or Webs or anything really that helps you break teams. Dracozolt for Drill is justified on the basis that you don't need setup, when it is the opposite: you NEED setup. Not only that, but Wide Lens Dracozolt is a bad set anyway. You're missing EQ.
As for your threatlist:
Pelipper-Not an issue in of itself, it the Rain it brings that is the issue. But Rain is on the down rn, with Skewda dropping to UU and the most common rain abuser being Vish, who is easy for Dragapult to at worst revenge kill.
Seismitoad, Gastrodon-These are not threats. These are setup fodder. EZ for any HO team worth its salt.
Mandibuzz-Strong wall, but not too dangerous, besides its nasty habit of Defogging Screens.
Corviknight-See above. The Bulk Up set should lose to Grimmsnarl if not carrying Iron Head, and really should not get time to set up.
Corsola-galar-Not an OU mon. Ignore the usage stats. It's Taunt bait and totally useless against any special attacker.

Yes to the second point, big, big no to the first point. Scarf Dragapult is utter garbage. It doesn't outspeed anything relevant (Dragapult is naturally faster than all relevant Scarfers, and loses all damage output worth speaking of. Partly sacrificing a niche matchup is well worth the damage output.

Sorry, this has taken me an hour or more already, so I'll edit in my suggestions later.
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Grimmsnarl: 169-201 (42.8 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Grimmsnarl through Reflect: 84-100 (21.3 - 25.3%) -- 0.3% chance to 4HKO

I see you disagree, but i will defend my rate. I have listed the reasonings behind my recommended swaps, and i think you fail to see as to why i've made these. I also need to point out, that if you do disagree, please post your explanations as to why. What you are doing here is first of all critiquing my replay, which, by all means, im not a top-of-the-ladder player, so you are correct that not all of my plays are optimal. As for your critiqque on the changes, you defend them by claiming first that seismitoad looses momentum, which to some extent yes, it's not a specs, band or life orb user, but i fyou look at why i recommend it, it is to deal with many pokemon such as sand, rain, scarf users and others that are the biggest threats to HO. You later proceed to say that pelipper is not an issue, which no, it is not, but as you yourself mentioned, rain is problematic, therefore i believe pelliper is the correct pokemon there to get a pivot and stopper for water moves.
I can go on as to why i disagree with you, but to put it quite simply; you use arguments as "on the low", "no other reason" which is an assumption, and if you read the rate again, completely wrong at that, "ez for any HO team worth its salt", "i believe scarf dragapult is utter garbage", you do provide reasoning, but your claim that it outspeed nothing is again wrong, as ive clearly explain in my rate, "you NEED setup", suggesting that the team fits no breakers that do not set up, and "HO needs webs or screens", which is also wrong. But you do not provide with counter arguments as to waht you would put instead and potentialy calcs to back it up.
Lastly, you claim that i have misunderstood HO completely, which is honestly just a direct insult and has no real place in a rate.
What i think you need to look at is;

-You may disagree, that is productive and good, but provide solid reasoning as to why.
-You have to understand that HO is not one set team or core, and dont have 1 correct playstyle with things like webs or screens.
-A bit similar to my last point; calling the team a bad bulky offense because it gains 1 defensive backbone to deal with threats that are otherwise troubling to HO has no place in a rate, unless you provide solid reasoning as to why.

 

[xOliver]

I see you disagree, but i will defend my rate. I have listed the reasonings behind my recommended swaps, and i think you fail to see as to why i've made these. I also need to point out, that if you do disagree, please post your explanations as to why. What you are doing here is first of all critiquing my replay, which, by all means, im not a top-of-the-ladder player, so you are correct that not all of my plays are optimal. As for your critiqque on the changes, you defend them by claiming first that seismitoad looses momentum, which to some extent yes, it's not a specs, band or life orb user, but i fyou look at why i recommend it, it is to deal with many pokemon such as sand, rain, scarf users and others that are the biggest threats to HO. You later proceed to say that pelipper is not an issue, which no, it is not, but as you yourself mentioned, rain is problematic, therefore i believe pelliper is the correct pokemon there to get a pivot and stopper for water moves.
I can go on as to why i disagree with you, but to put it quite simply; you use arguments as "on the low", "no other reason" which is an assumption, and if you read the rate again, completely wrong at that, "ez for any HO team worth its salt", "i believe scarf dragapult is utter garbage", you do provide reasoning, but your claim that it outspeed nothing is again wrong, as ive clearly explain in my rate, "you NEED setup", suggesting that the team fits no breakers that do not set up, and "HO needs webs or screens", which is also wrong. But you do not provide with counter arguments as to waht you would put instead and potentialy calcs to back it up.
Lastly, you claim that i have misunderstood HO completely, which is honestly just a direct insult and has no real place in a rate.
What i think you need to look at is;

-You may disagree, that is productive and good, but provide solid reasoning as to why.
-You have to understand that HO is not one set team or core, and dont have 1 correct playstyle with things like webs or screens.
-A bit similar to my last point; calling the team a bad bulky offense because it gains 1 defensive backbone to deal with threats that are otherwise troubling to HO has no place in a rate, unless you provide solid reasoning as to why.

No he's critiquing your sets and the non-viability that they have. You establish "5 rules of HO" and seem to just disregard them in the entire rate, with seismetoad and grimmsnarl, which makes no sense. The entire point of HO is to maintain momentum through the match, switching to snarl is already enough of a downtime play, but having seismetoad is ridiculous. Scarf Pult is useless against sandrush exca because its not used enough to be a threat, and even if it was, a defensive rotomw would do just fine.

OP, switching Lucha to something that can better handle flying types like a scarf toxtricity might be the better play instead of lucha as you have lucha's coverage taken care of. Don't listen to that rate.

 

[Dole Duck]

No he's critiquing your sets and the non-viability that they have. You establish "5 rules of HO" and seem to just disregard them in the entire rate, with seismetoad and grimmsnarl, which makes no sense. The entire point of HO is to maintain momentum through the match, switching to snarl is already enough of a downtime play, but having seismetoad is ridiculous. Scarf Pult is useless against sandrush exca because its not used enough to be a threat, and even if it was, a defensive rotomw would do just fine.

OP, switching Lucha to something that can better handle flying types like a scarf toxtricity might be the better play instead of lucha as you have lucha's coverage taken care of. Don't listen to that rate.

Yes, he is trying to critique "my sets" and the non-viability, im not denying he is, atleast that isnt the point im making. My point is he's not doing them in a very contructive way, and purely saying he disagrees or believes my suggestions are bad without providing alternatives and reasons as to why those are better is my problem with the criqitue.
Again, i recommend you read through the rate again, because the changes and why i believe them to be viable are all there. I keep seeing you disagree with Seismitoad, which by all means i wont say its provides plenty of momentum, but it provides equally much as Grimmsnarl, though it provides a different kind of support for the team, a support and defensive backbone i belive, and have defended multiple times now, that the team needs. It's job is also quite specific to what i've said, and the whole reason i have put grass knot on it is so that it doesnt need to use moves as Toxic that looses even more momentum. Also, Grimmsnarl was removed from the team for the very reason you mention that it too doesnt provide with much momentum, and therefore it is being switched as seismitoad seems more usefull for it. And again, poiting out the lack of specific reasoning on your suggest on rotom-w.

I will admit, the 5 rules of HO is a bit redundant as yes, i dont check on them for every recommendation i made, my apologiez, but i stand by them as i myself build by them, and having them there could be equally usefull for future reference.

Now i've not come here to argue, im simply defending the way i've rated the team, if you have further issue with my rate you are all welcome to tell me on PM, and not do it here. I do not discourage people from disagreeing with my rate, but i stand fully by the rate and changes, as well as claiming that the sets are very viable for a HO team.

 

[Jaystreet]

No he's critiquing your sets and the non-viability that they have. You establish "5 rules of HO" and seem to just disregard them in the entire rate, with seismetoad and grimmsnarl, which makes no sense. The entire point of HO is to maintain momentum through the match, switching to snarl is already enough of a downtime play, but having seismetoad is ridiculous. Scarf Pult is useless against sandrush exca because its not used enough to be a threat, and even if it was, a defensive rotomw would do just fine.

OP, switching Lucha to something that can better handle flying types like a scarf toxtricity might be the better play instead of lucha as you have lucha's coverage taken care of. Don't listen to that rate.

I'm a little confused now. So I now know that HO team dont want to lose momentum which has beneficial advice from all of you so far. That Is one thing we can agree.

1. If i throw on a Seismitoad to the team wouldn't it just start to warp into more of a balance? What would be a better option to draco or weather teams? Without losing momentum?

2. I dont mind removing lucha for toxtricity, I like the bisharp move so far. It's been working out awesome, especially a swords dance sucker punch.

3. I feel like I do want to keep some setup to give my team better opportunities. IE sticky web, or screens. Should I keep snarl or maybe opt out and go a sticky webs user.

Ps I love the addition to rocks on my team. Its helped against a lot of shashed duggies. Or sashed excas.

Everyone here is making valid points and statements. Maybe if we could all come together, it would e little less confusing?

 

[Jaystreet]

I feel adding conk with lucha is a tough situation. Also having exca with bisharp is also questionable. I feel like that whole team has some holes to it?

I dont mind replacing lucha or cinderace. I just want a fast team that overwhelms an opponent. I'm a super aggressive player that like to take risks. But I also love setting up mu victory. I dont mind have a few support pieces as well if its necessary. i will continue to test all of the recommended. I hope that helps with what I'm looking for in additions to my HO. Thank you guys for the support and help.

 

[xOliver]

Yes, he is trying to critique "my sets" and the non-viability, im not denying he is, atleast that isnt the point im making. My point is he's not doing them in a very contructive way, and purely saying he disagrees or believes my suggestions are bad without providing alternatives and reasons as to why those are better is my problem with the criqitue.
Again, i recommend you read through the rate again, because the changes and why i believe them to be viable are all there. I keep seeing you disagree with Seismitoad, which by all means i wont say its provides plenty of momentum, but it provides equally much as Grimmsnarl, though it provides a different kind of support for the team, a support and defensive backbone i belive, and have defended multiple times now, that the team needs. It's job is also quite specific to what i've said, and the whole reason i have put grass knot on it is so that it doesnt need to use moves as Toxic that looses even more momentum. Also, Grimmsnarl was removed from the team for the very reason you mention that it too doesnt provide with much momentum, and therefore it is being switched as seismitoad seems more usefull for it. And again, poiting out the lack of specific reasoning on your suggest on rotom-w.

I will admit, the 5 rules of HO is a bit redundant as yes, i dont check on them for every recommendation i made, my apologiez, but i stand by them as i myself build by them, and having them there could be equally usefull for future reference.

Now i've not come here to argue, im simply defending the way i've rated the team, if you have further issue with my rate you are all welcome to tell me on PM, and not do it here. I do not discourage people from disagreeing with my rate, but i stand fully by the rate and changes, as well as claiming that the sets are very viable for a HO team.

I think you missed the blue button on theotherguytm's rate because it explicitly says suggestions AND supplies calcs, which you said he did none of.

 

[Mayckron]

I see you disagree, but i will defend my rate. I have listed the reasonings behind my recommended swaps, and i think you fail to see as to why i've made these. I also need to point out, that if you do disagree, please post your explanations as to why. What you are doing here is first of all critiquing my replay, which, by all means, im not a top-of-the-ladder player, so you are correct that not all of my plays are optimal. As for your critiqque on the changes, you defend them by claiming first that seismitoad looses momentum, which to some extent yes, it's not a specs, band or life orb user, but i fyou look at why i recommend it, it is to deal with many pokemon such as sand, rain, scarf users and others that are the biggest threats to HO. You later proceed to say that pelipper is not an issue, which no, it is not, but as you yourself mentioned, rain is problematic, therefore i believe pelliper is the correct pokemon there to get a pivot and stopper for water moves.
I can go on as to why i disagree with you, but to put it quite simply; you use arguments as "on the low", "no other reason" which is an assumption, and if you read the rate again, completely wrong at that, "ez for any HO team worth its salt", "i believe scarf dragapult is utter garbage", you do provide reasoning, but your claim that it outspeed nothing is again wrong, as ive clearly explain in my rate, "you NEED setup", suggesting that the team fits no breakers that do not set up, and "HO needs webs or screens", which is also wrong. But you do not provide with counter arguments as to waht you would put instead and potentialy calcs to back it up.
Lastly, you claim that i have misunderstood HO completely, which is honestly just a direct insult and has no real place in a rate.
What i think you need to look at is;

-You may disagree, that is productive and good, but provide solid reasoning as to why.
-You have to understand that HO is not one set team or core, and dont have 1 correct playstyle with things like webs or screens.
-A bit similar to my last point; calling the team a bad bulky offense because it gains 1 defensive backbone to deal with threats that are otherwise troubling to HO has no place in a rate, unless you provide solid reasoning as to why.

At the end of the day, you can defend your changes as much as you want, but you cannot deny that your team is no longer a hyper offense team. Hyper offense teams do not rely on passive defensive backbones like seismetoad and they definitely needs breakers that can set up in order to get past corviknight and toxapex. This is why screens or webs are extremely appreciated, because they either make your harder to take down, giving you more setup opportunity, or allow you to utilize far stronger attackers since you will outspeed opponents because of web. Scarf dragapult is bad and has been bad for as long as it has existed, and if you want proof of why then go look at these calls.

252 SpA Dragapult Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 122-144 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Thunderbolt will not even 2 hit ko DEFENSIVE toxapex. The imagine it does do a spdef one is pitiful.

252 SpA Dragapult Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 212 SpD Mandibuzz: 140-166 (33 - 39.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
Again pathetic damage

Keep in mind this is with using THUNDERBOLT, a move you chose not to keep on your pult. Outspeeding sand rush escadrill has very little purpose, and if that pokemon was so scary for the team then they could just run dugtrio to trap it after sacking 1 mon.

One last thing. Do not try to say other people have not provided solid reasoning to counter your points. I see you said this to Theotherguytm despite the fact that he completely explained himself in all he points. Have a good day.

 

[Dole Duck]

I think you missed the blue button on theotherguytm's rate because it explicitly says suggestions AND supplies calcs, which you said he did none of.

That was added at a later time after i made my reply. Check the edit log and you will see this

 

[Dole Duck]

Mayckron, as said i am done arguing on the matter, if you read through again you may notice why i claim it is as HO as it orignaly was after my rate, but if not, honestly, i am done with arguing. I stand by everything.
The same goes for you, if you check the edit log you will see he added explanations and calcs after i made my comment.

 

[theotherguytm]

Ok, replying to this in priority order. Let's see how much time I have.

I feel adding conk with lucha is a tough situation. Also having exca with bisharp is also questionable. I feel like that whole team has some holes to it?

I dont mind replacing lucha or cinderace. I just want a fast team that overwhelms an opponent. I'm a super aggressive player that like to take risks. But I also love setting up mu victory. I dont mind have a few support pieces as well if its necessary. i will continue to test all of the recommended. I hope that helps with what I'm looking for in additions to my HO. Thank you guys for the support and help.

I think on HO having shared weaknesses is not an issue unless you're getting blown away by them before you get to play. If that's the case then the team might need a rethink yeah. But overall I think at least on paper the team should be able to break down each other's checks and cause a lot of issues. Dragapult covers the Fighting weakness, while Bisharp and Snarl cover the Psychic weakness, and the Flying one to a degree.

I'm a little confused now. So I now know that HO team dont want to lose momentum which has beneficial advice from all of you so far. That Is one thing we can agree.

1. If i throw on a Seismitoad to the team wouldn't it just start to warp into more of a balance? What would be a better option to draco or weather teams? Without losing momentum?

2. I dont mind removing lucha for toxtricity, I like the bisharp move so far. It's been working out awesome, especially a swords dance sucker punch.

3. I feel like I do want to keep some setup to give my team better opportunities. IE sticky web, or screens. Should I keep snarl or maybe opt out and go a sticky webs user.

Ps I love the addition to rocks on my team. Its helped against a lot of shashed duggies. Or sashed excas.

Everyone here is making valid points and statements. Maybe if we could all come together, it would e little less confusing?

1. The best option for weather teams depends on the abuser:

Fun Calcs

Sand Rush Excadrill:
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 344-408 (95 - 112.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Just keep Conk healthy and he should be able to come in on anything but a boosted EQ.d
Swift Swim Barrasekwda:
252+ Atk Life Orb Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr in Rain: 298-352 (77.8 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
Not that strong. Dies to Drain Punch or Facade. Bisharp's Sucker Punch also does the job with a Black Glasses boost, just watch for Close Combat or Psychic Fangs. Skewda is also unused on most rain teams atm.
Dracovish:
Yeah, nothing lives rain rend, surprise. Bisharp does about 50% with Sucker Punch, but gets KOed anyway. So choose something you don't need, sac it, and send in Dragapult to revenge it. Even Scarf Vish loses to Dragapult's unboosted speed.
Swift Swim Toad:
Similar to Skewda, but even less power and more bulk. Worst comes to worst Dragapult can take any attack from it.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 334-394 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

2. That's great. Make sure it is Black Glasses or you miss out on KOs like these:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Corviknight: 322-379 (80.7 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Bisharp Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Corviknight: 268-316 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 145-172 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 175-207 (72.6 - 85.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
You can go Life Orb if you feel you need even more firepower, but the lack of longevity hurts.
3. Screens and Webs both require slightly different handling. If you prefer setup mons, Screens is great to provide those mons with extra bulk to set up easier and high speed to crush the opposition, while Webs tends to lean towards instant power to make the Webs as hard as possible to remove, and more midspeed mons that gain from Webs. However, this is not hard-and-fast and certain mons can be interchangeable, like Bisharp. But Screens has going for it an excellent setter in Grimmsnarl, who replaces the role Tapu Koko played last gen, but with Prankster and more bulk. Webs setters tend to be fragile, one dimensional, and/or weak. I'd say Screens is the more reliable playstyle just due to how good Grimmsnarl is, but the high-risk, high-reward nature of Webs (even by HO standards) can be profitable.
I have an interesting resource that might prove useful to you here:
https://www.smogon.com/articles/hyper-offense-smou
While it is for Gen 7, the basic styles of HO remain the same as this gen. However, Grimmsnarl being as good as it is makes simple setup spam less common.

I see you disagree, but i will defend my rate. I have listed the reasonings behind my recommended swaps, and i think you fail to see as to why i've made these. I also need to point out, that if you do disagree, please post your explanations as to why. What you are doing here is first of all critiquing my replay, which, by all means, im not a top-of-the-ladder player, so you are correct that not all of my plays are optimal. As for your critiqque on the changes, you defend them by claiming first that seismitoad looses momentum, which to some extent yes, it's not a specs, band or life orb user, but i fyou look at why i recommend it, it is to deal with many pokemon such as sand, rain, scarf users and others that are the biggest threats to HO. You later proceed to say that pelipper is not an issue, which no, it is not, but as you yourself mentioned, rain is problematic, therefore i believe pelliper is the correct pokemon there to get a pivot and stopper for water moves.
I can go on as to why i disagree with you, but to put it quite simply; you use arguments as "on the low", "no other reason" which is an assumption, and if you read the rate again, completely wrong at that, "ez for any HO team worth its salt", "i believe scarf dragapult is utter garbage", you do provide reasoning, but your claim that it outspeed nothing is again wrong, as ive clearly explain in my rate, "you NEED setup", suggesting that the team fits no breakers that do not set up, and "HO needs webs or screens", which is also wrong. But you do not provide with counter arguments as to waht you would put instead and potentialy calcs to back it up.
Lastly, you claim that i have misunderstood HO completely, which is honestly just a direct insult and has no real place in a rate.
What i think you need to look at is;

-You may disagree, that is productive and good, but provide solid reasoning as to why.
-You have to understand that HO is not one set team or core, and dont have 1 correct playstyle with things like webs or screens.
-A bit similar to my last point; calling the team a bad bulky offense because it gains 1 defensive backbone to deal with threats that are otherwise troubling to HO has no place in a rate, unless you provide solid reasoning as to why.

Ok, let me clear a few things up then. Firstly, yes, I'm sorry for any offense my reply caused, but I was fighting my tablet to make that post in the first place, and had to leave it halfway to avoid smashing the stupid thing. However, I did state that I would come back to it:

because just posting about how someone is wrong is bad when someone needs help

And I was busy the rest of that day, so was unable to get back to it until later. Anyway, the reason why I did what I did was to make it very clear that your post was in fact detrimental to the team, and I felt that the changes should not be implemented. I again apologise for any offense caused. But please, do not post misinformation. It is actively harmful to someone trying to learn the game. Saying that Toad has a place in a HO team as anything but a Swift Swim mon in rain is just wrong. The fact of the matter is, the only mon it reliably walls is Dracovish (and even then, it can be worn down), and it does no damage worth speaking of, which concedes massive amount of momentum. Comparing Toad setting Rocks (a role that can be done better by several mons, including mons that compress removal and/or setup offense) to Grimmsnarl setting screens (a role Snarl is the best in class for by a long way, and the only real competition it has for it is Mew)... Is just wrong. Screens are far more important than hazards, and take a dedicated teamslot for, while hazards should only take a teamslot if you are using a suicide lead for it, and said suicide lead must do something else too.
Overall, anyone who's used Toad will tell you how prone it is to being worn down, and how much dead weight it is on balance. The only reason it is as used as much as it is is Dracovish. It is not a good wall, it is not a good offensive wall, it is not a good rocker, and in fact it's not even the best offensive-wall-rocker, which is Kommo-o. All of which tells you the only reason to run Toad on HO is for beating Vish, who HO deals with fine.
I could go on about you recommending certain items etc but I won't waste either of our time. Though if you do want me to continue explaining why your recommendations were so flawed, please ask.

 

[Dole Duck]

Ok, replying to this in priority order. Let's see how much time I have.

I think on HO having shared weaknesses is not an issue unless you're getting blown away by them before you get to play. If that's the case then the team might need a rethink yeah. But overall I think at least on paper the team should be able to break down each other's checks and cause a lot of issues. Dragapult covers the Fighting weakness, while Bisharp and Snarl cover the Psychic weakness, and the Flying one to a degree.

1. The best option for weather teams depends on the abuser:

Fun Calcs

Sand Rush Excadrill:
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 344-408 (95 - 112.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Just keep Conk healthy and he should be able to come in on anything but a boosted EQ.d
Swift Swim Barrasekwda:
252+ Atk Life Orb Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr in Rain: 298-352 (77.8 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage
Not that strong. Dies to Drain Punch or Facade. Bisharp's Sucker Punch also does the job with a Black Glasses boost, just watch for Close Combat or Psychic Fangs. Skewda is also unused on most rain teams atm.
Dracovish:
Yeah, nothing lives rain rend, surprise. Bisharp does about 50% with Sucker Punch, but gets KOed anyway. So choose something you don't need, sac it, and send in Dragapult to revenge it. Even Scarf Vish loses to Dragapult's unboosted speed.
Swift Swim Toad:
Similar to Skewda, but even less power and more bulk. Worst comes to worst Dragapult can take any attack from it.
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Seismitoad: 334-394 (95.1 - 112.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

2. That's great. Make sure it is Black Glasses or you miss out on KOs like these:
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Corviknight: 322-379 (80.7 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Bisharp Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Corviknight: 268-316 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 145-172 (60.1 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Black Glasses Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 175-207 (72.6 - 85.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
You can go Life Orb if you feel you need even more firepower, but the lack of longevity hurts.
3. Screens and Webs both require slightly different handling. If you prefer setup mons, Screens is great to provide those mons with extra bulk to set up easier and high speed to crush the opposition, while Webs tends to lean towards instant power to make the Webs as hard as possible to remove, and more midspeed mons that gain from Webs. However, this is not hard-and-fast and certain mons can be interchangeable, like Bisharp. But Screens has going for it an excellent setter in Grimmsnarl, who replaces the role Tapu Koko played last gen, but with Prankster and more bulk. Webs setters tend to be fragile, one dimensional, and/or weak. I'd say Screens is the more reliable playstyle just due to how good Grimmsnarl is, but the high-risk, high-reward nature of Webs (even by HO standards) can be profitable.
I have an interesting resource that might prove useful to you here:
https://www.smogon.com/articles/hyper-offense-smou
While it is for Gen 7, the basic styles of HO remain the same as this gen. However, Grimmsnarl being as good as it is makes simple setup spam less common.

Ok, let me clear a few things up then. Firstly, yes, I'm sorry for any offense my reply caused, but I was fighting my tablet to make that post in the first place, and had to leave it halfway to avoid smashing the stupid thing. However, I did state that I would come back to it:

And I was busy the rest of that day, so was unable to get back to it until later. Anyway, the reason why I did what I did was to make it very clear that your post was in fact detrimental to the team, and I felt that the changes should not be implemented. I again apologise for any offense caused. But please, do not post misinformation. It is actively harmful to someone trying to learn the game. Saying that Toad has a place in a HO team as anything but a Swift Swim mon in rain is just wrong. The fact of the matter is, the only mon it reliably walls is Dracovish (and even then, it can be worn down), and it does no damage worth speaking of, which concedes massive amount of momentum. Comparing Toad setting Rocks (a role that can be done better by several mons, including mons that compress removal and/or setup offense) to Grimmsnarl setting screens (a role Snarl is the best in class for by a long way, and the only real competition it has for it is Mew)... Is just wrong. Screens are far more important than hazards, and take a dedicated teamslot for, while hazards should only take a teamslot if you are using a suicide lead for it, and said suicide lead must do something else too.
Overall, anyone who's used Toad will tell you how prone it is to being worn down, and how much dead weight it is on balance. The only reason it is as used as much as it is is Dracovish. It is not a good wall, it is not a good offensive wall, it is not a good rocker, and in fact it's not even the best offensive-wall-rocker, which is Kommo-o. All of which tells you the only reason to run Toad on HO is for beating Vish, who HO deals with fine.
I could go on about you recommending certain items etc but I won't waste either of our time. Though if you do want me to continue explaining why your recommendations were so flawed, please ask.

I am not offended by your way of speaking, but as i said i did not like the way you put forward your opinion in the beginning.
We do disagree greatly on Seismitoad, obviously, and i will stand by it still, but you did point out a pokemon such as Kommo-o which can do the same, most important, jobs Seismitoad had. For this i will simply apologize, i did not think of Kommo-o at all, but the suggestion is good, so i would like to add that for the original rate i made, using sash Kommo-o with rocks is a good alternativ to seimitoad definetely.
Obviously we disagree, and since none of us will budge on our standpoint, this will officialy be the last reply i make to this thread, though as i cannot seem to stress enough; i stand 100% by all the points i've made, but i do not discourage you from disagreeing and putting forth your own opinions. As long as this is done with proper argumentation, of course, and without any form of "attacks", in lack of a better word.
Have a good day everyone.