My First RMT

[More Cowbell]

Hey guys, this is my first attempt at building a team (with some (actually quite some) help from fellow Smogonite Groshi), so be nice to me, ok? I'd like to see some advice, as I'm pretty new to the real battling.

The team doesn't really have a certain thought behind it, it is just made to support itself as much as possible, and stick around while dealing some damage too.

Team building

I've been reading some warstories lately, and saw quite a lot of Heatran usage. I liked it, so I decided to start off with Heatran.

While Heatran has a lot of resistances, it also has some nasty weaknesses, which are mostly buffered by Celebi (also forming the infamous CeleTran combo).

Now I was looking for a Water-Pokémon to form a F/W/G-core, and at first I wanted a bulky CM Suicune, but Groshi suggested be I'd be better off using a Swampert. Also, Heatran, Celebi and Swampert together resist all types at least once.

I was still looking for a lead, and I needed one that could set up Stealth Rocks, while also dealing some damage, and also being bulky. Naturally, Metagross came to mind.

Though Celebi and Swampert can somewhat buffer it, Earthquakes thrown at Heatran and Metagross are better resisted by a levitator. I needed one that could provide strong attacks too, while being somewhat bulky as well - in comes Zapdos.

While Zapdos can Roost it off, it still brought something of a Stealth Rock weakness to the team, so I though I needed a spinner. There are not that many great OU spinners, but since it also could lure Fire-attacks to Heatran, I decided to go for Forretress.

However, after some battling, I noticed I never spun away those hazards, so I decided to replace Forretress. I realised I didn't really have a revenger (everything yet carried either a Life Orb or Leftovers), so I decided to go for a Scarfed Infernape to revenge.

After some more battles, Swampert didn't really do what I wanted it to do. It could take some damage and strike back, but was rather easily walled. I also didn't have anything on the team that could heal teammembers, so I decided to swap Swampert for Vaporeon.

After a few days on RMT, I've swapped some sets and Pokémon, I've come to the current team:

This is my team as it is now. So next up is...

The teammembers, in-depth

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Bullet Punch
- Meteor Mash
- Explosion

Quite a generic Metagross lead, really, but it functions pretty well. with 252 HP it can take almost any hit, so it almost always gets up Stealth Rock. I'm looking to exchange Meteor Mash for something else, as I barely use it, but stilldon't know what. Explosion is pretty much staple.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Dark Pulse

This thing works wonders. Heatran brings a lot of nice 4x resistances to the team (4x Bug, 4x Grass, 4x Ice), which otherwise would be a problem. Lure Fire-attacks with Celebi, and switch to this. Set up a Sub when they switch, and then fire away. Dark Pulse is the only non-standard here, but it works great. When behind a Sub, it wins from Starmie, and can easily finish Ghosts looking to block Explosion.

Testing with HeaTrap now (Magma Storm/Explosion/HP Grass/Earth Power, will edit when 'officially' in use.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SpAtk / 176 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Earth Power

Celebi doesn't often get a chance to get a lot of CMs in, but when it does, it often nets multiple kills. Works great together with Heatran, and provides decent coverage. Celebi is also quite bulky, only being 2HKO'd by Scarf Flygon's U-Turn.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid (+ Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Roar
- Ice Beam


Suicune has definetely replaced Vaporeon, working much better, and actually securing a sweep. I changed the set a bit (using Roar over HP Electric), because I just got swept by a Stockpile Hippowdon and a RestTalk Cradily, which I'm not gonna let happen again (though Cradily has Suction Cups. Oh well).

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Hidden Power Ice
- Roost

Because Gyarados didn't quite satisfy, I'm back onto my old Zapdos, which worked way better so far.

(Original description:)
Many people expect a defensive Zapdos, only to find out that almost all of their Pokémon are 2HKO'd, or even 1HKO'd. This thing is fantastic, and even Pokémon neutral to its attacks take heavy damage. Life Orb and Stealth Rock damage is easily Roosted off, for which Zapdos gets enough chances.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-Turn

I've used this before (it was my first replacement for Infernape), but I tested a Rotom-h (suggested by Heist), and it just didn't work out well enough. I've used this Flygon before, it can is a great revenger, and can sometimes even get a late-game sweep. Especially with Zapdos back on the team, I needed the extra phsyical firepower. Adamant over Jolly, because Jolly doesn't really add much except for tieing with Scarf Jirachi.

Pokémon used before:

Standard Tank-set Swampert

Standard Wish-Vaporeon

Scarfed MixNape

Trick Scarf Rotom

Bulky DD Guarados

Things I'm willing to change:

Pretty much anything, if it makes my team better, though I'm pretty satisfied with Heatran and Zapdos as they are now, and Metagross and Celebi as Pokémon (though changes in sets would be very well possible). Vaporeon and Infernape are ok, but I'm still looking for better alternatives.

Thanks for reading guys! Threat list will be in next post.

 

[More Cowbell]

Threat list

Pokémon in orange can be troublesome
Pokémon in red really can provide trouble

Aerodactyl: Often seen as lead, Metagross doesn't mind it too much. Later in the match, Celebi and Vaporeon can take him.
Azelf: Metagross doesn't take much, later on gets wrecked by Heatran's Dark Pulse.
Blissey: Man, I hate Blissey. The only things that do much against it are Infernape (CC) and Metagross (Meteor Mash/Explosion). Really troublesome.
Breloom: SubPunch can be annoying, but most of the time Celebi can take it, and Infernape and Heatran can beat it too.
Celebi: Infernape and Heatran can easily take it out, same for Zapdos.
Dragonite: Either Zapdos or Infernape can beat it with HP Ice.
Dusknoir: Haven't encountered many, but can be troublesome. Heatran can score a KO with Dark Pulse, and things like Fire Blast from Nape dent it too.
Electivire: Haven't seen any yet, but it is pretty frail and can be taken out quite easily.
Empoleon: Better hope Zapdos is still alive. Celebi and Vaporeon can attempt too.
Flygon: Infernape outspeeds Scarf Flygons and KOs with HP Ice, enough others can have a try too.
Forretress: Heatran and Infernape easily take this thing on.
Gengar: If Heatran can get behind a Sub, that'd be the best counter. Basically anything that can live through a hit can severely dent it, but it can be annoying.
Gliscor: Infernape and Zapdos KO with HP Ice, Vaporeon can try with Surf too.
Gyarados: Vaporeon can take this thing on, so can Zapdos. Only gets troublesome if it gets too many DDs.
Heatran: Unless it is Scarf, my own Heatran will likely outspeed (or speed-tie, which would be annoying). Celebi outspeeds and KOs, Vaporeon walls and Surfs.
Hippowdon: Vaporeon and Celebi take this, Zapdos can attempt with HP Ice.
Infernape: Vaporeon takes minimal damage from Grass Knot. Celebi can lure Fire Blasts for Heatran, but Heatran needs to be careful around Close Combat.
Jirachi: Infernape and Heatran don't have any trouble with this. If it is a lead, Metagross doesn't mind a Scarf too much.
Jolteon: Anything that can take a hit often strikes back hard. Heatran can take it on, same for Celebi and Metagross.
Kingdra: As soon as this thing gets some DDs, things get annoying. Vaporeon doesn't do much and is set-up fodder, Celebi can try something with CM and Psychic. Very troublesome at times.
Lucario: Celebi, Heatran and Zapdos all KO without too much trouble. No problem.
Machamp: Annoying with Dynamicpunch, but Celebi can go for the KO and use Natural Cure to get the status gone. Zapdos doesn't take much from its attacks and strikes hard.
Magnezone: Depends on what Pokémon. If Metagross gets trapped it sure is gone, but Heatran can just KO. Infernape KOs with Fire Blast.
Mamoswine: Easily disposed of by Zapdos, Heatran or Infernape.
Metagross: KO's by Zapdos, Heatran and Infernape.
Ninjask: Haven't seen any, but pretty sure Infernape, Heatran or Zapdos can OHKO.
Roserade: Metagross can take one Sleep Powder, after that Celebi can take it. When it doesn't use SP, it's easy stuff for Infernape, Heatran and Zapdos.
Rotom: Can be nasty, but Heatran takes minimal damage and hits hard with Dark Pulse.
Scizor: Heatran, Infernape and Zapdos easily KO.
Shaymin: Haven't seen any, but again, Fire-attacks should do the job.
Skarmory: Fire-attacks again, no problem.
Smeargle: Metagross takes the Spore and hits hard with Meteor Mash, then finishes with Bullet Punch.
Snorlax: No encounters yet, but probably works like Blissey. Curse could be troublesome, but Metagross or Infernape should be able to do the job.
Starmie: If Heatran is behind a Sub it can Ko with Dark Pulse, Zapdos takes it without too much trouble too.
Suicune: Zapdos or Celebi.
Swampert: Celebi is my only real chance, can be troublesome at times.
Tentacruel: Celebi and Zapdos can KO, so can Heatran with Earth Power.
Togekiss: Zapdos with Tbolt is my only real answer. Troublesome.
Tyranitar: Surprisingly no encounters yet, but Infernape or Metagross should do the trick.
Umbreon: Infernape.
Vaporeon: Zapdos is my main counter, Celebi can wear it down too.
Weavile: Infernape outspeeds with Scarf and easily KOs.
Zapdos: Can be a problem. My Zapdos often wins through higher speed and better attack.

 

[sharkz]

short on time here so i have just a few nitpicks

replace dark pulse on heatran with explosion, your team seems like it can take it on fairly decently enough, and explosion helps against blissey who walls over half your team, as well as taking out bulky waters much better. you can also run hp grass to hit bulky waters without sacrificing heatran, but explosion is more useful IMO

zapdos doesn't learn overheat, so you might wanna replace it with heat wave for a fire attack.

ill come back later if i can for a better rate

GL

 

[ShinyAzelf]

Hey,

I definitely don't suggest Dark Pulse because a Fire Blast does more than a super effective Dark Pulse, so replace it with Explosion which helps against Blissey, or HP Electric which deals with Gyarados.

Zapdos does not learn Overheat, I think you mean Heat Wave.

Not bad for a first team.

Good luck!

EDIT: Ninja'd be sharkz by 4 seconds.

 

[More Cowbell]

Just ran some damage calcs, and Heatran indeed doesn't need Dark Pulse (except for maybe Starmie, but ok). For Zapdos I indeed meant Heat Wave. Overheat, Heat Wave, it all looks alike. Right?

And I'm kind of doubting if I should run Explosion on Heatran, since he brings some valuable resistances onto the team. But I think you guys are pretty much right, all my other Pokés are better off without Blissey. Thanks for the tip :)

 

[sharkz]

k so I'll do my best here.

You seem to be quite weak to Bulky DD Dragonite and Life Orb Jolteon. DD Nite sets up all over Vaporeon, Celebi, and Infernape locked in to Fire Blast and CC. Life orb Jolteon pretty much 1-2HKOs the entire team, and Infernape is the only one that can actually hit it. One solution would be to change Infernape to a Choice Scarf Flygon. This can still revenge the things that Infernape did, while giving you a much needed switch in to Jolty.

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature (+spe, -spatk)
4hp, 252 atk, 252 spe

Outrage
Earfquak
U-turn
Stone Edge/Fire Blast

GL

 

[Aerrow]

Hello. This a very sturdy team you've come to possess, although a couple of Pokemon seem to give our team immense problems if they are able to find an opportunity to set up. Namely, your team is threatened by Pokemon including dragon dance Dragonite, agility users (like Lucario and Metagross), substitute Heatran, swords dance Lucario and dragon dance Gyarados while also having smaller problems with LO Starmie and offensive Shaymin. Before I get to how to help deal with the bigger threats, I'm going to suggest some smaller changes on your Pokemon: first of all, I highly recommend replacing dark pulse with explosion an Heatran to help defeat Blissey; you can also utilize toxic if needed as this will help deal with bulky water types who often switch into Heatran (if you decide to use explosion, it would be best if you used a naive nature on Heatran). Now back to the initial threats I mentioned before: to help deal with the majority of the aforementioned threats including the agility users, Lucario, Dragonite and Gyarados, I suggest replacing Zapdos which quite frankly, doesn't seem very useful on this team with a bulky Dragon dance Gyarados.

[box]

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Taunt / Earthquake
- Waterfall[/box]
Gyarados, due to its bulky and resistances, does a magnificent job at checking all of the mentioned threats whilst also being able to easily set up, presenting a fearsome problem for the opponent at the same time. It should be noted that for Gyarados to successfully counter Lucario, it needs earthquake, although taunt does have its merits when facing bulky foes like Blissey. Also, Gyardos will also help you with the significant Blissey problem your team has seeing as how most of your Pokemon are meant to attack from the special side (Heatran, Celebi, Vaporeon). Continuing on with suggestions, I recommend replacing your current revenge killer, Infernape with a choice scarf Flygon; this change will help you with your noticeable Starmie and Shaymin problem as well as helping defeat Infernape which can easily rip apart your defensive core. I hope this helped and good luck!

 

[The Grand Babido]

I'm not sure where the above poster got the idea that you are weak to Gyarados, but Aerrow did outline a few common weaknesses.

I think I will suggest a few moveset changes first. Firstly, Calm Mind Celebi is a really cool set. However, I think Grass Knot should be replaced by Recover. When you look at the Pokemon that resist Psychic + Ground, you will see that Grass Knot does not help at all. Bronzong and Skarmory are still both resistant to it and Azelf takes pretty much nothing from Grass Knot because of its weight. I would like you to consider a spread of 252 HP / 80 SpAtk / 176 Spe Timid on said Celebi, allowing you to outrun Lucario and Suicune, but still having enough bulk to switch into the threats you usually switch into. Recover is really essential on Celebi as it needs that recovery if you want it to have the ability to come in a few times each match.

Currently your team really struggles with stall teams. Skarmory sets up Spikes against 3 of your Pokemon and the combination of Skarmory + Blissey + Gyarados really shuts your team down. I want to suggest a few changes to hopefully make your team that much better. Firstly, I want you to try HeaTrap over your current Heatran set:

Heatran @ Shuca Berry / Wide Lens
Timid | Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Magma Storm / Explosion / HP Grass / Earth Power

This Heatran works as a great lure for your team. It has the ability to take out your opponents' bulky water or Blissey opening up a sweep for Infernape, Celebi or Suicune [I will explain later]. If Heatran is able to explode on Gyarados, it is pretty much a straight sweep for Infernape, and Suicune / Celebi have a shot at sweeping stall teams after they lose their Blissey. HeaTrap is not just limited to stall, and can remove bulky-waters on balanced and offensive teams to open up holes for Infernape and Suicune.

I would like you to try Life Orb Infernape over your Scarf set. This has a lot more sweeping potential over your current set.

Infernape @ Life Orb
Naive | Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 64 SpAtk / 192 Spe
Overheat / Close Combat / Stone Edge / Mach Punch

Physically-based MixApe can 2HKO Vaporeon and friends so once "counters" to Infernape are pretty much turned to dust. Mach Punch lets you revenge an out of control DDTar, ScarfTar looking to end your sweep or SDLuc. Its uses don't stop there either, and Mach Punch allows Infernape to revenge weakened ScarfGon, very weakened Starmie and a plethora of other scarfers looking to end its sweep. Stone Edge beats Gyarados, Dragonite and friends who resist your dual-stab.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Timid | Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Calm Mind / Surf / Ice Beam / HP Electric

Offensive Cune partners wonderfully with HeaTrap and HeaTrap is able to lure out a number of threats to Suicune and deal with them comfortably, opening up a clean Suicune sweep. The set is pretty standard. This Suicune would replace Vaporeon. Hydro Pump can be used to OHKO Naive / Hasty Heatran.

In the last slot, I would like to suggest Scarf Rotom to tie up the few weaknesses you have.

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Timid | Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Trick / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Hydro Pump or Overheat

This Rotom helps check Infernape, Lucario, Metagross, DDNite [kinda] and others. The choice between Wash or Heat forme is preference really. Rotom would slot over Zapdos nicely and I think would work a lot better.

Final Team: Metagross, Heatran, Celebi, Suicune, Rotom, Infernape

Sorry for changing your team quite drastically. I just thought these few changes could unlock its full potential. Good team and good luck!

 

[More Cowbell]

Wow guys, I really appreciate all of this :) I've exchanged my Infernape for a Scarf Flygon yesterday (still need to edit my first post), but I will definetely try out the Scarf Rotom, DD Gyarados and HeaTrap, and seeing as Vaporeon doesn't help too much anyways, I'll replace that with Suicune. Again, thanks a lot guys!

Edit: I've just tried a few matches, and Rotom doesn't really satisfy, and while Gyarados does kind of ok, I still think Zapdos did better. Anyways, I'll test a few more matches, and then make my final dicision. Celebi is working out pretty wel so far.

Current team: Metagross / Heatran / Celebi / Suicune / Rotom-h / Gyarados

 

[More Cowbell]

Ok guys, I updated some sets and Pokémon, and since I still don't think my team is perfect (it has trouble with set-up things, mostly DD Kingdra), so I'm gonna give this a subtle bump.

-bump-

 

[Faladran]

As mentioned by previous raters, your team in its current state struggles to break though stall. The SkarmBliss combination alone walls nearly all of your team members quite easily, and the use of entry hazards will wear you down over the course of the match. I've also noticed that you're running Roar on your Suicune's moveset (preventing Kingdra from setting up on it), but you don't have any hazards of your own to abuse with phazing. For these reasons, I'd like to suggest replacing CM Celebi, who I feel doesn't perform effectively as a sweeper, with a bulky Roserade set:

[box]

Roserade @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Grass Knot
- Rest
[/box]
Roserade's bulk and typing allow it to easily switch into resisted special attacks from opponents. In the current metagame, bulky Water-types tend to be very common, which means that Roserade often finds multiple opportunities to switch in and begin setting up. Toxic Spikes puts a lot of pressure on stall teams, while Spikes hurts offensive teams by causing them to accumulate residual damage throughout the match. Grass Knot provides you with a solid and reliable STAB move, and hits many OU Pokemon hard. Finally, Rest in conjunction with Natural Cure gives you a way to fully recover your health and remove any status ailments. With this change, Suicune will be able to fully abuse Roar to rack up entry hazard damage and force switches. If you decide to add in Roserade, do make sure to fit in a spinblocker somewhere on the team as well. I think that Choice Specs Rotom-W could be a good replacement for Zapdos in this regard, as it is able to block spin while putting offensive pressure on your opponent, and shares an Electric typing.

LO Starmie remains one of the biggest threats to your team. It can outspeed and hit every member of your team for super-effective damage, meaning that a late-game Starmie sweep after you have been weakened late-game is quite plausible. One way to fix this without making too much of change would be to use a PasshoTran over your current Heatran set, which would give you a way to take a Water-type attack and retaliate back with Explosion. Last of all, try using Thunderpunch over Stone Edge on Flygon; unless you are having problems with opposing Zapdos, Thunderpunch is the superior move as it allows you to reliably check DD Gyarados.

Good luck with your team!

 

[More Cowbell]

Thanks a lot Faladran, the minor nitpicks like Thunderpunch on Flygon will be implemented ASAP. I will also try Roserade over Celebi, and if that works and I feel like I get spun away too often, I will experiment with Rotom :)