my first team

[Athenus]

okay, my last thread got locked because i wasnt specific enough, i think it was RMT rule 3 i broke, so i hope this one is detailed enough!


i spent a lot of time chosing my lead, at one point i had a smeargle, then i had my swampert as a lead, and after that i think i had a lopunny, but i concluded i liked forretress best as it can set up spikes and stealth rock plus rapid spin



Forretress (M) @nothing (I really need a suggestion for an item, not sure about lefties)
Ability: sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 SDef
timid nature (don’t know which nature to use)
-spikes
-stealth rock
-toxic spikes
-rapid spin

it's really simple, but seems to be countered quite easily. I don’t find it an effective lead as it keeps just fainting after one or two hits and I cant seem to set anything up. I considered a shuckle but im not sure about a shuckle. i'd actually be quite willing to change my lead, so any suggestions would be much appreciated.
next i use Gliscor, it's really the old Britscor set

Gliscor (M) @leftovers
Ability: sand veil
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spd
jolly nature
-taunt
-earthquake
-toxic
-roost

honestly, i find this quite hard to use, this is another one im quite willing to change. I get quite stuck when I find a flying type pokemon, I try and use toxic and taunt but gliscor Is usually down and out by then, maybe my ev’s should be spread differently? Or maybe it should be scrapped all together?
next is an interesting choice for me, it's the traditional stalrein, except i stuck hail on it, not sure if it was such a great idea

Walrein (M) @leftovers
Ability: ice body
EVs: 220 HP/252 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature
-hail
-substitute
-super fang
-toxic

to be honest I think this would be the one I’d like to get rid of all together, it’s just I don’t know what to change it to. I try and use hail and toxic but often find im stopped in my tracks by the time I get hail set up. Am I simply using stalrein wrong or should I completely scrap it?
now, another one i'm completely flexible on, im starting to realise how willing i am to change my whole team

Gyarados (M) @leftovers
Ability: intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
jolly nature
-waterfall
-stone edge
-earthquake
-thunderbolt

i really just picked this gyarados for it's movepool and decent stats, in retrospect it doesn’t seem like a great pokemon now. Every time I use it I might get one KO or at least decent damage. There’s a lot wrong with it though, I often think my EVs aren’t spread right
the next is a swampert i usually put in after forretress has been out and set up the spikes and stealth rock

Swampert (M) @leftovers
Ability: torrent
EVs: 240 HP/52 Def/216 Spd
Relaxed nature
-earthquake
-substitute
-waterfall
-roar

i use roar repetedly until everyone is poisoned and hurt decently, but a lot of the time this gets countered and doesnt work. Maybe I should replace substitute with a different move? I think that’s probably the reason but im just not sure which move to give it, or maybe I should start it again and make it a tank?
finally is my blissey, and to be honest, this probably isnt the perfect set for blissey, i'd really like to keep a blissey on my team, even if i have to heavily alter it, so suggestions please?

Blissey (F) @leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4Spd
Bold nature
-ice beam
-seismic toss
-softboiled
-toxic

usually i just use toxic then alternate between ice beam or seismic toss, and use softboiled when hp is low, this does usually work okay. I would like to change it though, I feel like im not using blissey to it’s full potential. Sometimes I think ice beam isn’t a reasonable move, maybe I should replace it with a nice stab?

that's my team, any suggestions feel free to make them! thanks! - Athenus

Okay, after some helpful comments from HistoryOfStone and Cynth on my last post I spent a while carefully considering how to change my team, I did a bit of tweaking, tested my team a little, did a lot more tweaking, tested some more, then put the final touches to my team. Thanks to the help I received I now have a team which works much more efficiently, but there are still a few kinks to work out before I get my team down to a T.
My team now:

I took the advice I got and changed my lead from forretress to roserade, but I just couldn’t get rid of forretress, so I kept it and changed it quite a lot. I removed walrein as it seemed like the least effective member of the team and replaced it with a nice bulky heatran. And what comes hand in hand with heatran? Celebi, of course. I decided to keep gyarados and swampert aswell, but they’ve undergone complete changes.

Here it is in depth;

Roserade (M) @leftovers
Ability: natural cure
EVs: 252 HP/120 Def/136 Spd
Calm nature
-toxic spikes
-grass knot
-rest
-hidden power (ice)

Setting up toxic spikes is pretty much roserade’s forte, a lot of the time it gets hit by a scarfer, but that usually doesn’t matter, I use toxic spikes for the second time and then switch out, often to swampert or whichever member has a type advantage.

Forretress (M) @shed shell
Ability: sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/112 Atk/144 Def
Relaxed nature
-toxic spikes
-rapid spin
-payback
-earthquake

Im not sure about having toxic spikes on forretress, I was thinking about replacing it with stealth rock or spikes but I just wasn’t sure about it. I think the ev’s are spread quite decently. A lot of the time forretress doesn’t even go into battle for more than one turn, usually just for rapid spin.

Heatran (M) @leftovers
Ability: flash fire
Evs: 224 HP/220 Spd/32 SAtk/12 SDef
Calm nature
-torment
-substitute
-protect
-lava plume

Heatran is probably the best working member of the team. I usually switch in against a bug type attack directed at celebi and then use torment, then my opponent has no choice but to switch or continue to use a not very effective attack, then I’ll either make a substitute or hit straight out with lava plume, depending on how weak the other pokemon is to fire.

Gyarados (M) @Leftovers
Ability: intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature
-waterfall
-stone edge
-earthquake
-dragon dance

My little gyarados, I really like this guy, I remember how cool you were when red and blue and yellow were out if you had a gyarados. My favourite little trick with this guy is to switch him in on a pokemon trying to use a fire type move on celebi, use dragon dance and then use waterfall or earthquake, depending on which will function better.

Swampert (M) @leftovers
Ability: torrent
EVs: 240 HP/52 Def/216 Spd
Relaxed nature
-earthquake
-waterfall
-roar
-ice beam

Swampert, I usually use him after roserade and forretress to start using roar until everyone is damaged and has poison, also for a bit of scouting, it’s a sad thing but I usually continue to use roar until swampert faints, I know it’s not the best way to use him but it really works.

Celebi @leftovers
Ability: natural cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Bold nature
-grass knot
-recover
-hidden power (ice)
-stealth rock
Celebi, as you know pretty much always used in conjunction with heatran, usually using stealth rock then whichever move works best against the opponent or switching out. I used to have thunder wave instead of stealth rock but I found since most of my opponents were already poisoned and I couldn’t use thunder wave, stealth rock seemed the only thing lacking from the team.

And that’s my team, any suggestions feel free to voice them! Athenus

 

[Leningrad]

Subsitute is never really the best option for Swampert. It can't manipulate it that well unlike sweepers who can use it to prevent status; the only way it can make use of it is to create 101 HP substitutes and be able to hit Blissey with focus punch. Blissey definitely isn't too much of a problem for this team, since you have Taunt+Toxic Gliscor to cover it. Try replacing it with Ice beam to get rid of Gliscor.

Also, dragon dance>thunderbolt on Gyarados. It simply is. Gyarados has an extremely low special attack to be able to do too much with t-bolt; and stone edge deals with opposing Gyarados.

And also, Walrein has very little synergy with the rest of the team. It takes advantage of permanent hail, something your team is not designed for. You also have Swampert as a bulky water, so Walrein has no point on this team. Try replacing it with torment Heatran, who pairs up well with Forretress and Swampert.

Blissey really has no good STAB option, considering it's a normal type and can't do anything with double edge or hyper beam. If you are considering Heatran, replace it with defensive Celebi, who pairs up well with Heatran (and Swampert).

 

[Athenus]

thanks a lot for that! i really appreciate the suggestions you gave me, i'll certainly consider them and post a new team at a later date, any other suggestions from anyone else are very welcome!

 

[Cynth]

You need a better lead than Forretress. For this team, I would recommend either Crobat, or Roserade. Crobat is fast enough to taunt opposing leads and stop their set up. Then he can proceed to attack with Brave Bird and roost the recoil damage. If you choose Roserade as a lead, you may want to consider changing Forretress' spiking attacks, whichever works best is up to you.

All three Entry hazards on one pokemon isn't going to cut it, number two, that Forretress is too vulnerable to Aerodactyl's and Azelf's taunt. So I suggest changing Forretress's set to the Physically defensive set

Forretress @ Leftovers/Shed Shell
Relaxed Nature(+Defense, -Speed)
252 HP/112 Attack/144 Defense

Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin
Payback
Explosion/Earthquake

You can pick either item for Forretress. Leftovers for a small recovery, but Shed Shell is still good if you are worried about Magnezone.


Blissey, isn't the best at offensive play. Changing Blissey's set so it a Wish Blissey could just be an added bonus to any team. Blissey can pass wishes to Swampert, Gyarados, and Forretress since they lack a recovery move outside of Rest. You can also opt for an Aromatherapy set, since you can't use aromatherapy with Wish.

Blissey@ Leftovers
Bold Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

Wish
Protect
Seismic Toss
Toxic

Change Swampert's set to the MixPert tank set - so it acts as a defense absorber and you can still have the ability to lay down Stealth Rock, and as an added bonus, Roar to scout for threat and have phazed pokemon take stealth rock damage.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Relaxed Nature(+Def, - Speed)
240 HP / 216 Def / 52 SpD

Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Surf/Ice Beam
Roar

Also, Wallrein, though I'm not sure why Wallrein is in your team, and I feel that it breaks your team Synergy, so I feel that you can bring in Skarmory in place of it.

Skarmory@Leftovers/Shed Shell
Impish Nature
252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

Spikes
Roost
Whirlwind
Brave Bird

Skarmory has high defenses and can help you with spikes set up, and it works great with Blissey since Skarmory can compensate for Blissey's low defense while Blissey's high special defense makes up for Skarmory's low SpD. Also, Skarmory is an easy switch in to grass types(That don't have HP Fire) that target your Swampert, so spikes can be set up, and also be able to Roar away counters so that their switch ins take Spikes Damage. In addition, all of Skarmory's weaknesses are walled by Swampert.

For Infernape threats, it's also best to change Gyarados' set to Bulky Dragon Dance Gyarados.

Gyarados@Leftovers
Adamant Nature
156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe

Dragon Dance
Waterfall
Taunt
Stone Edge/Bounce

Gyarados can easily switch in to opposing Skarmory, Swampert and Infernape w/o Thunderpunch/Stone Edge, Intimidate it, and Set up Dragon Dance when it switches out and wreak some havoc on unprepared teams. Taunt is there so Swampert and Skarm won't phaze you with Roar/Whirlwind. You can opt for Stone Edge to combat opposing Dragonite, and Zapdos after a Dragon Dance boost. If you prefer, you can use bounce for opposing Celebi or Breloom, but I wouldn't recommend 2 turn attacks though.


The only thing missing is an effective spin blocker. Even after these changes, LO Starmie still remains a threat. Rotom(any forme) is highly recommended as a spin blocker and a possible Starmie revenge killer. If you're using Wifi and are unable to get Rotom's formes, then a good alternative is a Choice Scarf Gengar.

I'm not a good team rater, and this the best advice I have for you. So i wish you the best of luck with your team.