SM Ubers My Ubers Team

#1
I am trying to ladder in Ubers again. I wanted to bring myself back up to my previous ranking of #117 on the ladder after a 6-month long hiatus from Pokemon Showdown. Right now, I feel that something about my team just isn't right and keeps preventing me from winning all of my games, but unfortunately, I don't know what that is. I decided to come here for advice and for general tips in Generation Seven Ubers. Anyways, here's my team...

Fortitude (Arceus-Steel) @ Iron Plate
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake

1) I felt that I need an Extreme Speed revenge killer, and Arceus-Steel can have that move set while also (2) resisting Xerneas and reliably checking it. My Arc-Steel's function on this team is primarily a Xerneas check because it can't be OHKOed by Moonblast Geomancy Xerneas.
3) Swords Dance Arceus with S.T.A.B. Iron Head is practically unstoppable. If there is a Pokemon which has a higher speed than 339, then Extreme Speed will also function as a primary move. Earthquake is used to hit Groudon, Electric types, Mawile, and Magearna for super effective damage when Iron Head could not do so.

SWEG (Lugia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Def / 16 SpA / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Aeroblast

1) I felt that I desperately needed a support Pokemon for this Ubers team, and I needed look no further than Lugia.
2) Its bulk combined with the fantastic ability Multiscale allow it to survive several hits from offensive superpowers such as Xerneas, Groudon, Arceus, et al.
3) Toxic is the most important move on this set. It will eventually wear down threats while Lugia will keep Roosting. Roost is used to recover health when it isn't full. Whirlwind is used to phase setup attackers like Xerneas and Arceus. Aeroblast is a S.T.A.B. attack that no Pokemon is immune to.

Shadow (Marshadow) @ Marshadium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Close Combat
- Shadow Sneak
- Bulk Up

1) Marshadow is a potent attacker with powerful S.T.A.B. moves. It serves a niche as a Ghost type attacker which can check Lugia, Darkrai, Arceus-Ghost, Mewtwo, and Mega Gengar.
2) It is a physical attacker that can check many threats to my team.
3) The Spectral Thief can take boosts from Pokemon that have them. Marshadium Z gives Marshadow the opportunity for a 190 damage S.T.A.B.- Soul-Stealing 7-Star Strike. Close Combat is a good Fighting type move. Bulk Up provides Attack and Defense boosts when setting up. Shadow Sneak is a good priority move which guarantees Marshadow one last attack before being killed.

Tilikum (Kyogre) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Origin Pulse

1) This Pokemon truly has been the backbone of my team ever since I started playing Pokemon Showdown. Its extremely high speed due to Choice Scarf and 150 base power S.T.A.B. (regardless of rain) Water Spout OHKOes practically every non-bulky Pokemon.
2) It is a forceful attacker which is a counter to Xerneas (prior to its setting up), Lugia, Rayquaza, Mega Salamence, and more.
3) Scarf is used because it will outspeed every non-boosted Pokemon. Water Spout is boosted by both S.T.A.B. and Rain, giving it 2.25 times power. Thunder cannot miss in rain and has a 30% paralysis chance; it also deals with other Kyogre and Arceus-Water.

Monsta (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Punch

Timid Forest Pony (Xerneas) @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
- Geomancy
- Hidden Power [Rock]
 
#2
It seems like your Kyogre is weak to most of the metagame. Because it doesn't have the Blue Orb, Drizzle won't work against Primal Groudon, which is on every team. As a result, Kyogre is forced to switch out to Lugia which your opponent can predict.
 

Muscle K

Banned deucer.
#4
Hi Nathen welcome to smogon!
I hope you enjoy your stay here!

Anyways, before I properly rate your team, i'd like to ask you a few questions.

1. What sort of playstyle are you trying to build for?

I ask this because you have 'mons that are tailored for completely different playstyles. (ie. Lugia is normally a dedicated wall on stall; it rarely is seen on any other archetype because of its passivity, Marshadow and Standard Geo Xern are normally placed on hyper offence)
The team has taken the shape of hyper offence, but is still uncertain, as it's got balance and stall mons on it

2. What is the team built around

The focal point of the team is incredible unclear. Is the team built around Arceus Steel or is it around lugia? You've listed why you added the 'mon, ie. you needed x y and z, but it holds nearly 0 synergy with anything.
 
#5
Okay, after looking at this a bit, I see two main issues.
1) Your team doesn't have good energy
2) Your team gets destroyed by HO teams, especially with Xerneas and Marshadow
3) Your team has a lack of good coverage moves on each set.

I'd also like to point out that Muscle K makes several valid points and asks good questions. Answer those and the community can help you better. I just want to address some glaring issues right now. I can't offer a replacement unfortunately however unless you answer his questions.

The most glaring problem I see first is Xerneas. What is the point of this? It gets utterly destroyed by Steel Types as it has no coverage moves, and even after it's Geomancy boost, it doesn't outspeed the whole tier. The Power Herb Geomancy set has the amount of EVs necessary to outspeed the whole tier, and I would recommend just using that. Also, I would like to know what Hidden Power Rock is for. I'm guessing you're using it to counter Mega Gengar and other Poison-types, but you really will only face Mega Gengar. And even then, I wouldn't be worried about this matchup:
+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar-Mega: 237-279 (90.8 - 106.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
Whereas:
252 SpA Gengar-Mega Sludge Wave vs. +2 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 176-210 (42.8 - 51%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO

Needless to say, you will win in a matchup against Mega Gengar if you have boosted with Geomancy. Also, now you can't use Focus Blast against P-Groudon.

Secondly, what is the purpose behind P-Groudon's EV spread?

Groudon has more than enough offensive prowess, and he doesn't need 252 EVs invested into attack when they could be used towards bulk or to outspeed specific threats. Once again, I would like to direct you to the Smogon page which lists numerous Groudon sets for different team archetypes. But before you can determine which set to use, you need to have a clear archetype and better synergy.
 
#6
I am trying to be offensive while having one stall. HP Rock is for Ho-Oh.
What other coverage moves could i use on my other mons?
Groudon's spread is to outspeed other Groudons and to have bulk while maximizing offensive power.
 
#7
I am trying to be offensive while having one stall. HP Rock is for Ho-Oh.
What other coverage moves could i use on my other mons?
Groudon's spread is to outspeed other Groudons and to have bulk while maximizing offensive power.
Having a wall on an offensive team just saps momentum and doesn't contribute much overall (as a single wall only covers a fraction of the meta). You should really just go onto the Smogon Dex and copy the sets from there, as stuff such as your PDon spread (which seems to have an arbitrary amount of speed, what are you trying to outspeed specifically as PDon either runs 0 speed, RP, or more than 128) and others point towards pre-made sets being better to use for your team atm.
 
#8
I am trying to be offensive while having one stall. HP Rock is for Ho-Oh.
What other coverage moves could i use on my other mons?
Groudon's spread is to outspeed other Groudons and to have bulk while maximizing offensive power.
If that's the case:
+2 252+ SpA Xerneas Thunder vs. 252 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 350-414 (84.1 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I would recommend just using the standard Power Herb set with Thunder and Focus Blast. Also, it doesn't synergize well with Lugia. This team doesn't really work coherently. I would actually recommend starting for scratch and using the standard sets on the Smogon page for now. Could you also post a few replays with this team or a rating on this ladder? Thank you!
 
#10
Hi cool team, and welcome to Smogon! I really appreciate you taking the time to actually post your team here. The competitive scene in Ubers is a lot quiter than the OU one so it's nice to see some new faces! My main concerns with this team are its matchups vs common threats in the tier. Currently your answer to Primal Groudon appears to be your own Primal Groudon or Lugia, Nothing really appreciates switching into Kyogre, nothing really can switch into Marshadow and although it appears that you have two mons that are dedicated to checking Xerneas, neither Arceus Steel nor Primal Groudon are running any SpD so none of them are effectively able to switch into them. Although people have touched on it already, I still feel the necessity to go into greater detail into why Lugia doesn't belong on this team, since your justification for having it on here is that you're running offense with one tank - basically in case things go badly for you. Plenty of builders have gone through this mentality, and I don't believe just saying "Lugia is bad here" is a sufficient enough explanation, as throwing terms out such as "It's a momentum drain" aren't really going to help. The issue here is the mentality that you're using when actually teambuilding. When you're building offense, you're basically trying to get your 6 mons to defeat your opponent's 6 mons as quickly as possible. When you decide "Oh I want a tank here", you're essentially making it a 5v6 situation, where you're relying on 5 mons to try and offensively check 6, and then you end up relying on 1 mon to defensively check the entire team. The results of this are that you find yourself switching into that one defensive mon all the time and it'll get worn down easily and your opponent is basically in control of the game for the majority of the time. If you wish to use a team with bulkier mons - it'll be more effective to have a solid defensive core and then have 1-2 mons that are used to clean, rather than the alternative. The Ubers resources should help provide you with solid examples of what good defensive cores are, as well as give you a more solid understanding of the ubers metagame. Unfortunately though Ultra Sun and Moon just came out and I believe that they haven't been updated in a while, so the info there won't be up to date, however I do believe it will be a good starting point.

Despite the criticisms that this team has received, I do believe that with some changes to the general structure, it should be very possible to provide you with a team that should preform well in the Ubers metagame.

Major Changes:

>


Arceus Steel is quite an interesting mon in the ubers tier. While it's capable of checking a variety of threats in the ubers metagame, it is also sadly vulerable to many of the most common threats in the tier. Primal Groudon, Arceus Ground, Ho-oh, Marshadow, Mega Lucario and Kyogre are quite dominant in the metagame, and sadly it's a weak option as a Xerneas check, as it's easily beaten by Xerneas unless you're running a significant amount of HP and SpD. Also by using Arceus Steel, this prevents you from using other, more effective Arceus formes in your team. By using Ferrothorn instead, this provides you with a more solid answer to Xerneas, as well as gives you an answer to Kyogre, and gives this team spikes - which makes every single grounded mon in the tier easier to kill. Leech seed is also brilliant when combined with stacking hazards, since it tends to force a lot of mons to switch, and stacking hazards punishes them when they do so. The set I had in mind is pretty standard, with 252 HP, 252 SpD and 4 Atk and a Sassy Nature, running Leech Seed, Spikes, Gyro Ball and Power Whip. The only thing that deviates this from the standard set is that most Ferrothorns don't run Power Whip. However, due to the popularity of Substitute + Calm Mind Kyogre, I believe that actually being able to beat it 1v1 is incredibly useful, since Gyro Ball doesn't even break Kyogre's Substitute. Also hitting Arceus Ground extra hard is always nice. An importable for this set will be provided below:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip


>


I don't believe that I need to go into much detail about why Lugia isn't suitable for this team. Arceus Ground seems like a really solid replacement as it gives this team a lot of support, but it still maintains an offensive presence, as it's able to deal with many of the most common offensive threats in the tier. It significantly improves your matchup vs Primal Groudon, as well as threatens Yveltal Mega Salamence, Zygarde Complete, Rayquaza, Mega Lucario and Mega Diancie. The EV spread that I have in mind is pretty standard, with 252 HP, 64 Defense and 192 Speed and a Timid Nature. To put it simply, that EV spread is designed to outpace Mega Lucario and then the rest is invested in HP and Defense in order to be able to survive attacks from Primal Groudon. The moveset is also rather simple, running Judgement, Ice Beam, Defog and Recover. The only real issue with this set is that it's completely walled by Ho-oh, and is quite susceptible to being trapped by Gothitelle. However this team does provide answers to Ho-oh, and the rest of the team does pressure Gothitelle quite effectively, and I don't believe that this team is that weak to hazards, so it won't crumble if it's defogger is removed. The importable for the Arceus Ground set is:

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Defog
- Recover


>

Marshadow's placement on this team was certainly not a bad choice, so don't get the wrong idea when I suggest to get rid of it, however removing Lugia meant that a number of changes had to be made to fill in the gaps of what Lugia was actually checking. With Lugia gone, this resulted in the entire team being grounded, so Primal Groudon was able to just freely click precipice blades and everything on this team was taking damage as a result. Since this is an offensive team, you can't exactly afford to be taking damage all the time, so it is necessary to have a non-grounded mon in this team. Choice Scarf Yveltal seemed like a perfect choice, since it provides you with speed control, a decent answer to Marshadow as well as being able to somewhat revenge kill Rock Polish Primal Groudon, since the standard Rock Polish spreads tend to be outsped by Timid Scarf Yveltal. Once again, there is nothing about this Choice Scarf set that deviates from the normal analysis set, however I will still provide you with an importable below:
Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Dark Pulse
- Foul Play
- U-turn


Minor Changes:


Choice Scarf Kyogre was definitely a threat until the Primals were released in Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. The fact that the Primals completely nullify any weather on the field and that Primal Groudon - the most common mon in the tier - is immune to water, means that Choice Scarf Kyogre has lost its offensive presence. Primal Kyogre however is quite an underrated threat and many teams - especially on the ladder, are unprepared for it. The set that I found to be most appropriate is the substitute + calm mind, since until now your matchup vs stall has been rather sub-optimal. Kyogre also forces a number of switches and its main check, Ferrothorn tends to not run Power Whip, so it's not even able to break it's substitute, and being able to deal damage with Ice Beam to Primal Groudon makes it a lot easier for Xerneas to sweep late-game.
Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Substitute



Primal Groudon plays a crucial role for this team. It is not only one of your main Xerneas answers, but it also provides this team with rocks and can threaten the vast majority of the tier. The EV spread that was here originally was sub-optimal, and also unfortunately Thunder Wave has been horridly nerfed, so the para-dancer set isn't half as viable as it used to be (Which still depresses me to this day too). In order to fix this issue, I've decided to add a little bulk to Primal Groudon and add Rock Tomb in place of Thunder Wave. 152 Hp and 44 SpD allow Primal Groudon to survive a Focus Blast from Xerneas after Stealth Rock and 76 Speed is a benchmark speed tier for Groudon, as it ties with Life Orb Ho-oh and 0 Speed invested Xerneas and Yveltal. The rest of the EVs are placed into attack and an adamant nature is used for maximum damage output. Fire Punch is necessary on this team, otherwise Celesteela and Ferrothorn would be especially annoying, but Rock Tomb prevents Groudon from being Salamence setup fodder and Punishing Ho-oh.
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Rock Tomb



Many people have already commented on how your current Xerneas spread doesn't use the mon to the best of it's potential, so I won't hone in too much about it. HP Rock is a nice means of beating Ho-oh, which is otherwise walled by Xerneas, however it really doesn't hit much else. Thunder however allows you to still hit Ho-oh, but guarantees a kill on Kyogre and also hits Celesteela incredibly hard. Focus Blast is also more useful as you're able to take care of Groudon and Ferrothorn. Aromatherapy isn't a completely useless move on Xerneas, but it is only really used on the scarf set, and on a setup sweeper, it's not really worth losing the damage output to actually run the move. 84 Speed is also a key speed tier on Xerneas since it outspeeds a +1 adamant Mega Salamence and also lets you outpace common scarfers such as Yveltal and Xerneas, as well as outspeeding Deoxys Speed. 100 SpD and 72 HP is crucial for preventing Xerneas from being 2HKO'd by Yveltal's Oblivion wing and then the rest is in SpA with a Modest nature for maximum damage output.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 100 SpD / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Thunder


Summary of Changes:
While these changes to the team deviate a fair bit from the original team that was posted here, I believe that the foundations of the team still remain the same. Groudon and Kyogre still get to work together as a solid wallbreaking core, and Xerneas still gets to act as your main late-game sweeper. Groudon + Kyogre + Ferrothorn + Arceus Ground help provide this team with the solid defensive foundations that I believe you were aiming to achieve by having Lugia on this team, and Yveltal provides this team with a much more solid speed control than you had with Kyogre, but additonally provides you with answers to Rock Polish Primal Groudon and Marshadow. I really enjoyed rating this team and I hope that you enjoy using this team with its changes. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to send me a PM and I'll be more than happy to answer :)

Importable team with changes:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip

Yveltal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Oblivion Wing
- Dark Pulse
- Foul Play
- U-turn

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Defog
- Recover

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 100 SpD / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Thunder

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 152 HP / 236 Atk / 44 SpD / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Rock Tomb

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
 
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