Other Metagames National Dex AG

[Jackstrick321]

Hi! I've played with this team since the day Mega Sableye came out. When I built it, I had 0 competitive experience. As of today, I have 1000+ games with this team, and I just love it. I want to make some EV/ Moveset changes but I desperately don't want to change my pokemon out. Advice is appreciated.

The Team

Sableye (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite Ability: Prankster EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD Calm Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Dark Pulse - Recover - Calm Mind - Will-O-Wisp
Mega Sableye is my team's mega, and I think it does a pretty good job. If they setup with a physical attacker, and I haven't mega'd, it can willl o wisp them. This combined with calm mind lets it win 1v1s against almost everything, especially if they are partially weakened. I regularly get this to +6 with calm mind (mabye not a great thing to do), but it takes hits well. What I would like to improve is the ev spread. It is currently just randomly set so it can be bulky both physically and specially, but I'm not sure how to change it to survive important attacks, or what those attacks are.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers Ability: Iron Barbs EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spe - Leech Seed - Gyro Ball - Protect - Stealth Rock
Ferrothorn was the last pokemon I added to the team. Full physical investment makes it an absolute wall, and it works well at forcing switches on setup mons by scaring them out with leech seed + protect. It has stealth rock because hazards are good, and it has gyro ball to hit everything hard, because the entire tier is miles faster, but primarily for Xerneus., which it can hit hard while it geomancies in my face.

Infernape @ Choice Scarf Ability: Iron Fist EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant/Jolly Nature - Flare Blitz - Close Combat - Thunder Punch - U-turn
This one was chosen because it is my favorite pokemon. I know there are better options, but it's really fun to use, and I have a ~70 winrate with this team, so I don't feel the need to switch it out. There is a problem though. As shown, I can't decide between two natures. I'm leaning towards adamant, because it allows me to outspeed Zacian Crowned, and OHKO it with flare blitz with a min roll of 100.3. Even with rocks, jolly is only a 81.3 chance to OHKO. This nature comes at the cost of leaving me slower than a +2 Xerneus with 88 speed evs, which according to smogon's calc is what geomancy xerneus runs. My reluctance to go jolly is that I am willing to bet many people just run 252 speed on Xerneus anyways, and the power drop would be too severe.

Zekrom @ Shuca Berry Ability: Teravolt EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD Adamant Nature - Defog - Roost - Bolt Strike - Dragon Claw
Zekrom performs consistently well at taking a hit, then hitting hard. I have shuca berry to take a precipice blade, which is often all I need if Groudon is badly poisoned. Bolt strike mabye should be swapped out with Fusion Bolt for the accuracy, but I'm not sure. Mabye I should change something in the moveset, or the EVs? I'm not sure if making it faster could help with anything, or if something like volt switch is worth having. Roost helps sometimes with recovering from moves that do ~30%, because Zekrom is my switch in to physical fires, as sableye can't burn them and obviously ferro can't take anything from them.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb Ability: Poison Heal EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 88 Def / 92 SpD Impish Nature - Earthquake - Roost - Toxic - Protect
I have Gliscor as another hit taker. Toxic heal lets it take hits well and recover with protect + roost. Once again, the EVs are somewhat random. I wanted it to be kinda bulky, but still do damage, primarily to groudon. Right now, it can hit Primal Groudon for a 3 hit kill. I'm not sure if it's worth changing the EVs to better handle this. If I think they will lead Groudon, Gliscor is my choice. Usually they stealth rock turn one and I toxic. From there it is a switching game until it is dead, or they switch. Obviously not the best solution.

Genesect-Douse @ Douse Drive Ability: Download EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Techno Blast - Bug Buzz - Flash Cannon - Flamethrower
I am presently torn between changing Genesect to be specs or banded. If I go specs, I would use some mixture of Techno Blast/ Bug Buzz/ Flash Cannon/ Flamethrower/ Dark Pulse/ Energy Ball/ Ice Beam/ Psychic/ and Tbolt. I guess these moves would depend on the changes made to the rest on my team members. If I go banded, I would use Extreme speed/ Iron Head/ Uturn/ Explosion. The benefits of being physical are that download boosts are easier to get, but one of the downsides is that I would struggle more against physical walls, such as Zamazenta Crowned. No matter what, I need to have either a Timid or Jolly nature, as otherwise I am slower than max speed Primal Groudon.

In conclusion, I could use some advice on set changes, and EV changes.

Importable

Sableye (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Recover
- Calm Mind
- Will-O-Wisp

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Thunder Punch
- U-turn

Zekrom @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Bolt Strike
- Dragon Claw

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / 88 Def / 92 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Toxic
- Protect

Genesect-Douse @ Douse Drive
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Techno Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower

 

[Geysers]

Hi there! This team looks interesting, but it's got a lot of issues. Looking at your team, and judging by the Msab + ferro + gliscor core, I'm assuming that your team is meant to be a bulky-balance type, so I've tried to stay as true to that as possible. I understand that you want to keep as many Pokemon as possible, so I've tried to keep as many as I could while making the team remain usable. With that said, let's get to the changes. Shoutout to I Eat Snoms for letting me bounce ideas off of them while I was working on this.

Major Changes
-->

Set

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Eruption
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stone Edge
- Precipice Blades

While Infernape is your favorite Pokemon, it's completely unviable in Natdex AG. I attempted to stay in the spirit of an offensive fire-type, however, by using Mixed Primal Groudon, which is far better at ripping through bulky teams, and can punish Mega Rayquaza for switching in, which it could otherwise do freely. HP Ice nails Zygarde after it's switched into one of your other moves, allowing you to maintain momentum and apply great offensive pressure. Precipice Blades is great all-around coverage, and helps you to ensure that you can remove a Zacian-C after taking a hit. Please be advised, however, that this PDon set can't switch into Zacian.

-->

Set

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Sacred Fire
- Defog
- Whirlwind

This set is chosen over Gliscor as your team needs a defogger to prevent your bulky Pokemon from being whittled down too fast. It's EVed to live +2 Xern’s Thunder from full, then phaze it with Whirlwind, and it gives you a much more reliable form of Zacian-C counterplay than you had before, since Zacian-C can't OHKO it. Ho-Oh also helps by soft-checking most Primal Groudon sets, barring those that run Stone Edge, which can often be handled with MSab.

-->

Set

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Morning Sun
- Sunsteel Strike

Unfortunately, Genesect is completely unviable in AG, and your team sorely needs reliable counterplay to Xerneas and Zacian-C, both of which you're otherwise unable to handle. Additionally, NDM gives you a really helpful stealth rocker, which can help Zekrom against Focus Sash Marshadow, and drastically ease the matchup against Focus Sash Mega Rayquaza, which, unfortunately, is extremely common on the ladder. Knock Off is chosen to punish Ho-Oh and opposing Necrozma-DM, while also preventing Yveltal from switching in by threatening to remove its Life Orb. The given EVs allow it to avoid the 2hko from Zacian-C's Close Combat after Stealth Rock, while also having the best possible chance to live a +2 Xerneas' Max Flare and threaten back.

Minor Changes

Set

Sableye (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Fake Out
- Toxic

This set allows Mega Sableye to be a reliable switchin to just about every defensive Pokemon in the game, able to deny them progress and force switches, thus gaining momentum. Foul Play lets you punish defensive Pokemon such as Necrozma-DM that would otherwise stay in, while also deterring Zacian-C from switching in by threatening >40% damage. Fake Out is chosen to allow MSab to get a free turn to Mega Evolve without needing to take a hit, which can be incredibly useful against balance teams. Toxic allows MSab to punish switchins such as support Arceus formes or Ho-Oh by crippling them indefinitely.

Set

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

This is pretty straightforward, just re-EVing it to counter Primal Kyogre, which it can now switch freely into and force out or take advantage of to stack Spikes. Removing physdef EVs doesn't hurt it that much, since there are very few physical attackers in AG that it could check anyway.

set

Zekrom @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Bolt Strike
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage

Reworking this set to turn Zekrom into a threatening sweeper allows you to take advantage of Mega Sableye's ability to threaten bulkier Pokemon, and can use a lot of common walls, such as Ferrothorn and Necrozma-DM as setup fodder. This set can quickly snowball, and easily sweep whole teams after one boost.


Click on the sprites for an importable

In case you're interested in learning more about what Pokemon are viable in AG, check out this thread for more info:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ag-viability-rankings.3658581/
If the name of a Pokemon is blue, click its name for an in-depth analysis of that Pokemon's role in the metagame and its ideal teammates.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and good luck in your future AG endeavours!
e: fixed typoes

 

[Jackstrick321]

Hi there! This team looks interesting, but it's got a lot of issues. Looking at your team, and judging by the Msab + ferro + gliscor core, I'm assuming that your team is meant to be a bulky-balance type, so I've tried to stay as true to that as possible. I understand that you want to keep as many Pokemon as possible, so I've tried to keep as many as I could while making the team remain usable. With that said, let's get to the changes. Shoutout to I Eat Snoms for letting me bounce ideas off of them while I was working on this.

Major Changes
-->

Set

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Eruption
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stone Edge
- Precipice Blades

While Infernape is your favorite Pokemon, it's completely unviable in Natdex AG. I attempted to stay in the spirit of an offensive fire-type, however, by using Mixed Primal Groudon, which is far better at ripping through bulky teams, and can punish Mega Rayquaza for switching in, which it could otherwise do freely. HP Ice nails Zygarde after it's switched into one of your other moves, allowing you to maintain momentum and apply great offensive pressure. Precipice Blades is great all-around coverage, and helps you to ensure that you can remove a Zacian-C after taking a hit. Please be advised, however, that this PDon set can't switch into Zacian.

-->

Set

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Sacred Fire
- Defog
- Whirlwind

This set is chosen over Gliscor as your team needs a defogger to prevent your bulky Pokemon from being whittled down too fast. It's EVed to live +2 Ho-Oh's Thunder from full, then phaze it with Whirlwind, and it gives you a much more reliable form of Zacian-C counterplay than you had before, since Zacian-C can't OHKO it. Ho-Oh also helps by soft-checking most Primal Groudon sets, barring those that run Stone Edge, which can often be handled with MSab.
-->

Set

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Leftovers
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Morning Sun
- Sunsteel Strike

Unfortunately, Genesect is completely unviable in AG, and your team sorely needs reliable counterplay to Xerneas and Zacian-C, both of which you're otherwise unable to handle. Additionally, NDM gives you a really helpful stealth rocker, which can help Zekrom against Focus Sash Marshadow, and drastically ease the matchup against Focus Sash Mega Rayquaza, which, unfortunately, is extremely common on the ladder. Knock Off is chosen to punish Ho-Oh and opposing Necrozma-DM, while also preventing Yveltal from switching in by threatening to remove its Life Orb. The given EVs allow it to avoid the 2hko from Zacian-C's Close Combat after Stealth Rock, while also having the best possible chance to live a +2 Xerneas' Max Flare and threaten back.

Minor Changes

Set

Sableye (Sableye-Mega) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Fake Out
- Toxic

This set allows Mega Sableye to be a reliable switchin to just about every defensive Pokemon in the game, able to deny them progress and force switches, thus gaining momentum. Foul Play lets you punish defensive Pokemon such as Necrozma-DM that would otherwise stay in, while also deterring Zacian-C from switching in by threatening >40% damage. Fake Out is chosen to allow MSab to get a free turn to Mega Evolve without needing to take a hit, which can be incredibly useful against balance teams. Toxic allows MSab to punish switchins such as support Arceus formes or Ho-Oh by crippling them indefinitely.

Set

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Protect

This is pretty straightforward, just re-EVing it to counter Primal Kyogre, which it can now switch freely into and force out or take advantage of to stack Spikes. Removing physdef EVs doesn't hurt it that much, since there are very few physical attackers in AG that it could check anyway.

set

Zekrom @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Bolt Strike
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage

Reworking this set to turn Zekrom into a threatening sweeper allows you to take advantage of Mega Sableye's ability to threaten bulkier Pokemon, and can use a lot of common walls, such as Ferrothorn and Necrozma-DM as setup fodder. This set can quickly snowball, and easily sweep whole teams after one boost.


Click on the sprites for an importable

In case you're interested in learning more about what Pokemon are viable in AG, check out this thread for more info:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ag-viability-rankings.3658581/
If the name of a Pokemon is blue, click it'=s name for an in-depth analysis of that Pokemon's role in the metagame and its ideal teammates.

Thanks for taking the time to read this, and good luck in your future AG endeavours!

Awesome! Thanks for your reply. I agree with everything you have said, but I have a few questions.
1. What are the 8 attack evs on sableye for?
2. Is SpD just better on ferro?
3. Why is primal groudon timid and not, for example, hasty or naive?
Thanks

 

[Jackstrick321]

Awesome! Thanks for your reply. I agree with everything you have said, but I have a few questions.
1. What are the 8 attack evs on sableye for?
2. Is SpD just better on ferro?
3. Why is primal groudon timid and not, for example, hasty or naive?
Thanks

And in a reply to my own reply, why is genesect in ubers and not OU if it’s that bad? I already knew it was bad, but would it be like OUBl if it existed?

 

[Jackstrick321]

Hi! Genesect is out of OU because its overwhelming to the OU metagame!
And 8 Atk is for a slightly stronger Fake Out or Foul Play I guess.

That makes sense, and do you know if it will ever be suspected? I know it has good typing, but I don’t understand how it would be too strong for OU, even in the limited gen 8 dex I couldn’t see it beating some things.

 

[Jackstrick321]

Doubt it, it was the best mon in the tier and everyone and everyone had to use a teamslot to even approach it.

What gen was this? I only really got into OU this gen. And do you know what sets were common?

 

[Jackstrick321]

Not much.

Awesome, well thanks for answering my questions!

 

[Geysers]

Awesome! Thanks for your reply. I agree with everything you have said, but I have a few questions.
1. What are the 8 attack evs on sableye for?
2. Is SpD just better on ferro?
3. Why is primal groudon timid and not, for example, hasty or naive?
Thanks

The 8 atk evs on sab are because the recommended spread thingy is bad. It should be in SpD. Sorry about that.
SpD is just better on ferro since it lets you reliably counter Primal Kyogre, which physdef Ferro struggles to do.
Pdon should be Hasty. I fixed that on the set but not the actual importable. Sorry about that.
Hope this answers your questions!

I have edited the importable available in my original rate to fix these mistakes.

 

[theotherguytm]

That makes sense, and do you know if it will ever be suspected? I know it has good typing, but I don’t understand how it would be too strong for OU, even in the limited gen 8 dex I couldn’t see it beating some things.

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-suspect-test-2-bug-genesect-banned.3659573/
Here's Genesect's suspect test from this gen. It's had one every gen since Gen 5. It is yet to be not broken as all hell.

What gen was this? I only really got into OU this gen. And do you know what sets were common?

Genesect, better known as "+1 U-turn Simulator", "The Dumb Bug That Gets BoltBeam" and "Oh God It Used Shift Gear And My Heatran Is Chipped Send Help" has many sets. In fact, this is one of the primary reasons for Genesect's banning: If it has U-turn and/or ThunderBolt/IceBeam, chances are it's a viable set. Pretty much anything can be used in the 4th slot from Hidden Power Ground to Explosion, and almost any item works too. Its access to Shift Gear and Extreme Speed further increases the amount of options it has, with Shift Gear Z-Blaze Kick and Choice Band being two of many deadly lategame cleaning sets. And only then do you get to Douse Drive Rock Polish which deletes all Genesect's usual checks with ease.
Genesect can be pretty much summed up as the perfect Pokemon for OU. Way, way too perfect. The main reason it's not useful in AG is its comparative lack of power next to abominations like the Primals, Zacian-C and Mega Gengar/Ray, and a pivot that chips things with ease is less useful in the fast-paced AG world of Banded Dragon Ascents and +3 Behemoth Blades.