National Dex Anything Goes Metagame Discussion

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heatmoron

Banned deucer.
It's not going to be banned, being uncompetitive or broken is completely irrelevant since this is Natdex AG, where No Guard Fissure Machamp is legal.

I would suggest including 1 or 2 members with Extremespeed (Arceus/Mega Ray/Zygarde/Deoxys etc) as counterplay to Prankster Assist. Its annoying but far from unbeatable.
That's completely missing the point. Funbro is beatable too. Every argument used to defend revivecats can be used to defend funbro. But at least funbro actually exists in the real game. Revivecats is 100% fanficshit. It's 100% speculation. Assist was removed in the same generation Revival Blessing was implemented. Even if the two moves existed in the same generation, there is no way in hell Gamefreak would allow Assist to select Revival Blessing. Anything Goes is supposed to be like the normal cartridge with absolutely no restrictions. Not fundamentally changing the game's mechanics because "lol revival blessing calling assist would be funny XD"
Assist calling Revival Blessing is utterly absurd and should not remain. It would NEVER happen in the game. Its just as ridiculous fanfic bullshit as letting Slaking get Huge Power in AG because "LOL ANYTHING GOES". Fundamentally altering the mechanics of a move based on pure speculation, (and unfounded speculation at that) is frankly stupid.
 
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It's not going to be banned, being uncompetitive or broken is completely irrelevant since this is Natdex AG, where No Guard Fissure Machamp is legal.

I would suggest including 1 or 2 members with Extremespeed (Arceus/Mega Ray/Zygarde/Deoxys etc) as counterplay to Prankster Assist. Its annoying but far from unbeatable.
isn't funbro banned tho? if it can result in an endless battle shouldn't it be banned based on that precedent?
 
That's completely missing the point. Funbro is beatable too. Every argument used to defend revivecats can be used to defend funbro. But at least funbro actually exists in the real game. Revivecats is 100% fanficshit. It's 100% speculation. Assist was removed in the same generation Revival Blessing was implemented. Even if the two moves existed in the same generation, there is no way in hell Gamefreak would allow Assist to select Revival Blessing. Anything Goes is supposed to be like the normal cartridge with absolutely no restrictions. Not fundamentally changing the game's mechanics because "lol revival blessing calling assist would be funny XD"
Assist calling Revival Blessing is utterly absurd and should not remain. It would NEVER happen in the game. Its just as ridiculous fanfic bullshit as letting Slaking get Huge Power in AG because "LOL ANYTHING GOES". Fundamentally altering the mechanics of a move based on pure speculation, (and unfounded speculation at that) is frankly stupid.
It's the most cartridge-accurate implementation of the interaction as Revival Blessing is flagged as callable by Assist.

This interaction was discussed here if you want to read more: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...e-allowed-to-select-revival-blessing.3712222/
 
That's completely missing the point. Funbro is beatable too. Every argument used to defend revivecats can be used to defend funbro. But at least funbro actually exists in the real game. Revivecats is 100% fanficshit. It's 100% speculation. Assist was removed in the same generation Revival Blessing was implemented. Even if the two moves existed in the same generation, there is no way in hell Gamefreak would allow Assist to select Revival Blessing. Anything Goes is supposed to be like the normal cartridge with absolutely no restrictions. Not fundamentally changing the game's mechanics because "lol revival blessing calling assist would be funny XD"
Assist calling Revival Blessing is utterly absurd and should not remain. It would NEVER happen in the game. Its just as ridiculous fanfic bullshit as letting Slaking get Huge Power in AG because "LOL ANYTHING GOES". Fundamentally altering the mechanics of a move based on pure speculation, (and unfounded speculation at that) is frankly stupid.
Natdex Anything Goes was always fanfic. This format mixes moves, items and abilities from past generations, and was never meant to be competitive.

Being unbeatable isn't my point. Revivecat can't go on indefinitely since Assist PP isn't infinite and doesn't restore upon revival.

300 turns of stall isn't funbro. Again, if you dislike it play some other tiers. It seems like you have severe misconception about Funbro, National Dex and Anything Goes.

National Dex allows all mechanics from Gen 7 onwards (except Dynamax because of coding limitations)

Anything Goes doesn't ban anything. It doesn't have sleep clause, evasion clause or OHKO clause.

If you dislike Natdex AG, consider playing Ubers or regualr Anything Goes, which doesn't have Assist + Revival Blessing
 
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heatmoron

Banned deucer.
If it was never meant to be competitive, there is no reason for funbro to remain banned, seeing as it doesnt force infinite battles as long as you forfeit against it. Its not hard to click x or type /forfeit.
Revivecats severely limits teambuilding and is extremely unhealthy to remain in the "tier". It's extremely unhealthy, far more so than funbro, whose usual counters are things people run anyway.
Really there is no reason to allow revivecats and ban funbro other than "fuck showderp XD".
 
If
If it was never meant to be competitive, there is no reason for funbro to remain banned, seeing as it doesnt force infinite battles as long as you forfeit against it. Its not hard to click x or type /forfeit.
Revivecats severely limits teambuilding and is extremely unhealthy to remain in the "tier". It's extremely unhealthy, far more so than funbro, whose usual counters are things people run anyway.
Really there is no reason to allow revivecats and ban funbro other than "fuck showderp XD".
As I said earlier, and repeating again: Assist doesn't force infinite battle. Whether intentionally or unintentionally. Lets see how Funbro works

Since the clause was introduced, some helpful individuals pointed out a few similar strategies that could force endless battles. As a result, the following two combinations have also been banned:

  1. Leppa Berry + Recycle + Pain Split - can be used by Mew, with almost exactly the same strategy as the Heal Pulse method, by simply using Pain Split to heal the opponent instead.
  2. Leppa Berry + Recycle + Fling - can be used against a defensive Pokemon which struggles to do major damage, to prevent it from ever running out of PP, while the user simply heals off whatever damage it takes.

Revivecat doesn't follow either of the above combinations, since the stalling ends when Assist runs out of PP, or the opponent runs out of PP then struggles to death. There's no heal pulse involved so eventually, either the user or opponent will lose. This is just stall, just a fancier one. So if you want to ban revivecat, you have to ban every stall technique that can stretch to hundreds of turns.

You are frustrated which is understandable, but you confusion arises from lack knowledge on the formats of Smogon and the clauses. Revivecat is a perfectly valid playstyle in AG. If you lose to it, it's because lack of skill, since no skilled player lets it go on for 300 turns.

I suggest not to comment further on this issue in this thread since we're getting derailed from the topic. Also, consider playing the newly created Natdex Ubers if you are tired of cheese tactics in AG.
 
Ban the cats for God's sake, dead format otherwise. Idc if it's a free win for me in the long run, running 2 E.killers is cringe. And we are basing this on GameFreak's poor coding practices.

If they had considered Assist when making the gen 9 'counter' moves Comeuppence wouldn't be callable either, as all other moves like that, counter, mirror coat etc are not callable by Assist, but Comeuppance is. It's an oversight in the code that Revival is callable more than likely

Had to dredge up an old forum account to write this out lol, this format is going to dogs cats otherwise.
 

Fish Gaming

formerly iLiekMudkipz_
Ban the cats for God's sake, dead format otherwise. Idc if it's a free win for me in the long run, running 2 E.killers is cringe. And we are basing this on GameFreak's poor coding practices.

If they had considered Assist when making the gen 9 'counter' moves Comeuppence wouldn't be callable either, as all other moves like that, counter, mirror coat etc are not callable by Assist, but Comeuppance is. It's an oversight in the code that Revival is callable more than likely

Had to dredge up an old forum account to write this out lol, this format is going to dogs cats otherwise.
No. This is a metagame with tera shedinja, you can handle it.

also speaking of tera shedinja, it just deletes every attack coming its way on god
 
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No. This is a metagame with tera shedinja, you can handle it.

also speaking of tera shedinja, it just deletes every attack coming its way on god
Lmao what. Most tera Shed sets are noob trap trash.

Tera Shed isn't good, outside of pairing with Mega Gengar, it's a gimmick. Especially if you are talking about the clown ass Balloon set. Tera Ground is the best Shed set hands down, with Water and Steel being OK just because people expect ground.

Cats is an entirely different beast, its not good either but it kills interest in the tier, tho this tier was never meant to have a metagame so im likely an old man screaming into the wind.
 

Elo Bandit

youtube.com/ EloBandit
is a Community Contributor
I'd like to address some of the anti Revive Cats sentiments floating around in this thread.
Ban Revival Blessing!
Nothing is banned from NDAG; that's the whole point of the tier.
Make Assist not call Revival Blessing!
GameFreak included it on the list of moves called. This has already been confirmed, and we don't change in-game mechanics for the sake of balance.
Comeuppance can be called, pointing to a coding oversight!
Comeuppance is actually a clone of Metal Burst, not Counter or Mirror Coat. Comeuppance and Metal Burst do not have decreased priority, which is what prevents Counter and Mirror Coat from being called.
Revive Cats' goal is to stall rather than win, like Funbro!
Revive Cats have no way to create an Endless Battle. They can't restore Power Points forever the way Recycle Slowbro can. At worst, Revive Cats PP-stall opponents and let them die to Struggle, which only takes a few hundred turns. Typically, Revive Cats try to deal damage with Thief, Copycat, and Ditto to end games as efficiently as possible.
Revive Cats are unhealthy for the metagame because they require specific counters!
Literally everything requires specific counters. If you fail to bring sufficient priority to beat a common cheese strat, that's on you.
 
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use imprison meowstic to beat revivecats


The problem with that is that many good revivecats teams have ways of attacking, even if those ways are questionable at best. For instance, Elo Bandit has made a whole video on revivecats, and many of their teams contain far more than just 5 liepards and a smeargle. There are mons like Giratina, Tapu fini, Tapu Lele, Tapu Koko, Xerneas, Xurkitree and more. Imprison meowstic simply can't fight off all of them at once as it can't learn nature power, the premier attacking method for the above mentioned pokemon. Meowstic also can't learn thief, which is an attacking move that is used on Liepard. Thief vs full physdef meowstic may seem really bad (4 Atk Liepard Thief vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Meowstic: 102-120 (28.9 - 34%) -- 0.7% chance to 3HKO) but thief has 40 PP, which combined with an average revivecats team having at least two Liepards(so that they can revivechain with each other) that's 80 full PP. Meowstic isn't exactly bulky by any means, and it's only reliable recovery is with rest. Also, meowstic is likely just dead weight against basically everything else (although I did mess around and it survives some physical attacks, but it's all 2HKO or very high chance to 3HKO. The only exception that I tested against was a zygarde set that I use, but it just sets up on the cat and meowstic does a pathetic 13.8% with a max roll. Let's not talk about the special side. That thing just gets deleted by everything that's has some semblance of offense. Imprison meowstic may be decent as a revivecats counter, but there are far better ones out there(Bandit has a bunch of them)

As a side note, Liepard can also run Taunt if it wants to, and the cat is not only faster than meowstic, but also gets prankster too. This could be stopped with Meowstic having tera dark though.

Edit:Elo Bandit informed me that Taunt can be called by assist, which I missed. My previous line is no longer valid.

Meowstic (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Infiltrator
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Assist
- Imprison
- Signal Beam
- Rest

Rocky helmet for liepard thief, max physdef for the same, signal beam for 2HKO from full, OHKO from 50%. Infiltrator because prankster wouldn't work and keen eye is whatever, realistically both work fine I think. Assist+imprison is obvious and rest is for recovery. Tera dark is to block any possible taunts, and also to make liepard's thief do even less damage.

Bandit's revivecats teams(I put them in a box because I didn't like the way that they did it before)
https://pokepast.es/df9059a5c7588473
https://pokepast.es/d2b5bf99674e2e36

Bandit's revivecats allies
https://pokepast.es/7ddd7cf3e9f414ff

Bandit's revivecats counters
https://pokepast.es/5d0a32cb381f15f6

Sorry if my words seem a bit nonsensical or out of order, I was just typing as I thought.
 
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dhelmise

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National Dex AG has been changed to be a challenge-only format, removing the ladder. Basically being a Custom Game clone with a few more restrictions, National Dex AG had no Smogon community and was completely abandoned by its leaders. The ladder has also proven to be unplayable by competitive standards. The thread on Smogon, for example, is flooded with posts asking to ban Assist and Tera Electric Shedinja, despite it being a format with no bans. These combined factors, reviewed by both PS admins and National Dex leaders, led to the decision to remove the ladder at this time.

E: Also, National Dex Ubers has a ladder now, which is similar in concept to AG with much more competitive drive. Check it out!
 
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