RU National Dex RU

[Furret4ssb]

Hi, Furret here wanted to submit a sample team (apologies in advance for making this too long lmao) (s/o scorbunnys for encouraging me to post this)

Team:


https://pokepast.es/d3a6aa09a3830745
(nicks mandatory)

Teambuilding Process / Roles

Sets

Zarude @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Leaf Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Jungle Healing
- Darkest Lariat
- Power Whip
- U-turn

Raikou @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Aura Sphere
- Scald

I started out with a Raikou + Zarude core, pretty nice because Zarude comes in on stuff like Gastrodon and Seismitoad while Raikou is good for Togekiss and Crobat, mostly self explanatory.

Set

Crobat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Defog

Crobat was next, I needed a Zarude switchin, and Roserade was looking pretty annoying. I couldn’t run the best set (252 atk) because I need a Zarude check unfortunately.

Set

Seismitoad @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Scald

I needed a Cobalion switchin along with rocks and I would prefer to not have Zarude be my sole Raikou answer, Gligar and Mega Steelix also sat on this team a lot, so Seismitoad was a nice pick.

Set

Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Static
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch

Around this time I realized Mega Pidgeot was getting ready to destroy this team, while I have Raikou it really just isn’t a good idea to have that be my only Pidgeot check, so after a bit of thinking Ampharos seemed a natural pick over Raikou. The EVs outspeed bulky Metagross. Focus Blast is nice for steels but not mandatory IMO, you could probably use HP Ice or HP Grass if you want.

Set

Mimikyu @ Mimikium Z
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough

I didn’t have a proper Hatterene check, and Toxtricity clicks boomburst against this team all day, plus I had a free Z move slot so Mimikyu was a nice fit here.

Set

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Mienshao was chosen on the final slot of the team because I didn’t have proper speed control (Mimikyu shadow sneak without orb is just depressing damage output, 0atk crobat doesn’t count) also its Mienshao so it fits on like every team.

Issues with the Team

Hatterene: while I added Mimikyu for Hatterene, Mimikyu shadow claw only does like 45% unboosted so play cautiously.

Togekiss: There is a Mega Amphy, just be careful that its not worn down too much if theres an opposing Togekiss or else things can get dicey.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1420847889-2hrpi80l1awsre31rt5uzvde5uk5ff7pw < HO destroyed

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1425687733-mmauxuhg91qwu9i9orxcq3ahpainrgupw

Yeah that’s basically it, if you have any questions/comments/concerns/ways to improve my team please let me know.

 

[scorbunnys]

Before all I'd like to say that I'm glad to see this tier officially finally! Anyways, gonna submit a little sample which I've made with Furret4ssb, so shoutouts to them for helping me to improve the team (and s/o SSJRobbieRotten and DerpyBoi to comment on this sample and in the other version which I'll left at the end of the post).
(click the links for the paste, also #nicksmandatorychallenge)
Teambuilding process:

Sets

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire

Golurk @ Choice Band
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Poltergeist
- Earthquake
- Close Combat
- Trick

I've found this core very strong in the current metagame, as Specs Sylveon is a dangerous wallbreaker able to hit through many balances and come easily on stuff such as Gastrodon and Ampharos-Mega, the former being a balance staple and the latter being a rising star. Golurk on other hand is another wallbreaker, as ghost-ground STAB is a cool combo.

Set

Just a dog (Raikou) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Scald
- Aura Sphere

Raikou is one of the best pivots of the ND RU metagame thanks to it's neat match-up vs Togekiss (don't let it get wear downed tho, will touch this later) and good coverage in form to Scald, which makes it very hard to switch into, as most ground-types that aren't Gastrodon and Toad gets very crippled by Scald, allowing it to kill most volt absorbers and so it can Volt Switch here and there.

Set

Birb (Crobat) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Defog

This mon compresses pivoting support, speed control, hazard control and a way to check Roserade and Zarude (shaky Zaru check tho) in one slot, which is really valuable atm, as it can compress lots of roles in one, which made me choose it here, not to mention that being able to afford it's nice set (full atk is a nice cleaner) is very nice.

Set

Slug (Gastrodon) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Storm Drain
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 244 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam

A fakemon (Cobalion) @ Steelium Z
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head

Then I figured out that I needed a way to cover my (pretty shaky) Raikou MU and my Zarude MU, so I figured out that Gastrodon and Cobalion were the best choices for that (s/o Furret4ssb to help me). Gastrodon is just a very good wall thanks to it's typing and natural bulk, able to stomach hits from Cobalion and Metagross if needed. Cobalion on other hand offers SR support and SD Steel-Z just wins games, as not many teams are prepared for that.

TheWeirdGastrodon made a nice version of the team too but I decided to submit the other one as it has a better kiss MU (lupla's one has a Spikes setter and a nice Water-Type MU tho)

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1425735028-d71a1wf88w0qqytlxezteyqc0fb0u4upw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1425174004-d4nh3fc4l0utlfjnlbpbf3h8hw86094pw (Stall RIP)

Threatlist

Don't find rly bad MUs here, but bulky waters can be very annoying if we don't play well around them.

Cya!

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

Attention all Nat Dex RUers!

Today was tier shifts. Fortunately, nothing too drastic has changed.

Raises

Porygon2 RU -> UU

Drops

Aggron-Mega UU -> RU

It's a shame to see P2 leave (again), but I'm glad to see Mega Aggron (again), especially since it does nothing in UU. Hopefully it won't be too much here, it looks like a pretty sick addition to the tier.

 

[Lupla]

I know its a bit early to give my thoughts on this mon but lets start off with the trades it has. Its an actual Defensive Mega thats not unviable (Audino isnt a thing guys, forget about that mon), this gives it a unique trade in being a Knock Off absorber which is fantastic on a meta like this where Boots are everywhere and one knock can leave them vulnerable to the Spikes that are around from the many spikers such as Roserade, Chesnaught, Golisopod, Etc. It can also setup rocks and checks a huge chunk of the meta such as Obstagoon, Zarude, Physical versions of Necrozma, Metagross, non-hp fire Roserade, and more.

Calcs

252 Atk Guts Obstagoon Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 109-129 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- 85.4% chance to 3HKO


252 Atk Zarude Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 88-105 (25.5 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock


252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Aggron-Mega: 59-70 (17.1 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO


+1 252 Atk Necrozma Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 102-121 (29.6 - 35.1%) -- 87.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

It may seem like its an issue given the lack of recovery (ill get to this later) but with the good cores its able to make with Fairy types such as Sylveon or Togekiss that give Wish support (and even Heal Bell sometimes), this issue is mostly controlled on, his huge physical bulk also allows it to take huge attacks such as Close Combats from Cobalion or Mienshao and threaten back with Heavy Slam or Earthquake. It fits nicely on teams with his combination of Knock Off deterrent, Mono Steel typing, Huge Bulk, Stealth Rock and even makes Stall, which was previously considered a bad playstyle, slightly better so what could possibly go wrong? A Lot.

His special defense is still low even at max and still takes too much from attacks than what it should receive compared to other bulky steels like Registeel, Empoleon or Bronzong that also do similar roles

Calcs

0 SpA Togekiss Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 94-112 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 8.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock


252 SpA Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 112-133 (32.5 - 38.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
TBolt does more than Aura


252 SpA Pidgeot-Mega Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 77-91 (22.3 - 26.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock


252 SpA Pidgeot-Mega Heat Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 133-157 (38.6 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

While these thing may not sound so problematic and you might ask yourself "Just wish pass, problem fixed right?" and while Wish Passing is common in this tier, the usual cores of Togekiss & Sylveon as partners have their issues with Fire types like Mega Houndoom, Incineroar or Chandelure and Electrics like Raikou or Toxtricity. Most of the time they tend to overwhelm it by repeated momentum alongside pokemon that M-Aggron is supposed to deal with like Crobat or Zarude, which adds up damage in conjuction with the really common spikes from Roserade, Golisopod, Chesnaught or Deoxys-Defense. Your often on a questionable spot on wish passing too, because the real target for the core is the wish passer, if that's taken care of (which is not really that hard) then M-Aggron is gonna go down in a few turns too, Rest is a really exploitable method of recovery and its not something you fit everytime, what with the Earthquake or Toxic alongside the mandatory rocks and slam.

Curse sets might look appealing but the common bulky waters wont give it a room to breathe, such as Milotic, Volcanion, Gastrodon, Seismitoad, Etc (this is also something problematic for the support variants as well, specially Volc). its not a bad mon, in fact the opposite as it made the current meta a bit more defensive inclined that it was before and his trades are really unique & worth the effort, but for now i dont think this pokemon is ban worthy.

 

[R8]

I believe Mienshao is broken, and should be banned from the NDRU Metagame.

First off, thanks to Regenerator and its access to Knock Off and U-Turn, it pretty much has no long term defensive counterplay, aside from Vileplume and the incredibly niche Runerigus (since that one steals Regenerator on contact); would be counters like Togekiss, Crobat, Gligar, Sylveon, or Deoxys-Defense either fear Poison Jab or Stone edge, Knock Off or just get U-Turned forever. Regenerator allows it to abuse the Spikes-heavy nature of the metagame, forcing everything to take hazard damages thanks to the combination of Knock Off and U-Turn, while not caring much of hazards chip itself. On top of that, it is also arguably the best scarfer in the metagame, able to revenge kill a significant portion of the offensive metagame while forcing progress pretty well thanks to the reasons mentionned earlier, making it good even against offensive teams. It's also worth to mention that it forms really good VoltTurn cores with the electrics in the tier, especially since most of them have ways to punish the grounds attempting to block Volt Switch.

The LO set is also worth mentionning ; even if it's not as splashable or even good as the Scarf set (imo), this set is even more difficult to check defensively, thanks to the increased damage output and not being choice locked. Of course, Mienshao easily shrugs off the LO recoil thanks to Regenerator, and remains really hard to chip.

 

[kllkj089h]

I also agree with R8, Mienshao makes consistent offensive progress that is imposible to prevent due to regenerator + knock off and u-turn, it has an awnser to every single one of it's checks set wise and can't even be reliably slowed down. Life orb is even more threatening than scarf imo, as it is imposible to stop defensively as nothing switches to combo of cc + pjab + knock, and it can't be chipped effectively due to regen, checking it is essentially limited to priority and out-speeding. However this can only be done after it takes a kho as no revenger can switch in effectively on it at all, and Mienshao can just switch to a bulky pivot letting it reset the cycle. Also if it drops pjab for fake out, it is able to exert free priority pressure for the minor cost of loosing to togekiss, which it can knock and u-turn on. This set alone is banworthy, yet it also has a scarf set, significantly limiting offensive counter-play, and even it's fairly unixperimented with reckless high jump kick set, further limiting it's defensive checks as litterally nothing other then togekiss and ghost can switch into cb reckless hjk, and knock cripples both extremly hard. It's incredably unhealthy for the metagame as a whole, due to having esentially 0 checks depending on the right set, and it can easily overcome it's flaws with team support.

Ban the towel cat >:(

 

[Furret4ssb]

The VR council has made the first official Viability Rankings, you can find that here. Asking SSJRobbieRotten to add this to the OP. If you disagree with any rankings please feel free to tell us in the discord or this thread!

 

[Dorron]

I also think Mienshao's ban is a need for the metagame due to how it has the ability to make progress in every single turn it's in the field. Two or even three mons are usually needed to stop it reliably in long term and this really restricts both teambuilding and playing against it. It's better one-time checks, Weezing-G and Gligar, are both not totally dominant when facing Mienshao, as the first one lacks a reliable form of recovery and the latter relies on Eviolite to be a decent wall not only for Mienshao but also for the rest of the foes it is supposed to check such as Zygarde-10% and SD Cobalion (+2 252 Atk Cobalion Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gligar: 283-334 (84.7 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock).

But I don't want to talk only about Mienshao. There's another menace in the tier which does also restrict teambuilding and makes some offensive Pokemon like Mimikyu and Metagross be totally useless when facing this terrifying defensive presence.


Since October 1st, Mega Aggron has been available in the tier and stands as an incredible physical wall which can take even the strongest of the hits from any of the physical offensive Pokemon in the tier, including +1 Tectonic Rage Zygarde-10% and Flygon, +2 Close Combat Cobalion, +2 Fire Blast Azelf and has a 75% of chances to survive Choice Band High Jump Kick Adamant Medicham without running any single Defense EV. Its stupid bulk makes it so frustrating to play against it and feel like you are doing no progress because of the next point.

Defensive Calcs

+2 252 SpA Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 291-343 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 217-258 (63 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Zygarde-10% Tectonic Rage (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 262-310 (76.1 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 270-319 (78.4 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Aggron-Mega: 298-352 (86.6 - 102.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 249-294 (72.3 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Despite Aggron has a superb bulk which allows it to take many hits and hit strongly in return (next point), it lacks a reliable recovery form. This is very notorious considering that Aggron is vulnerable to hazards damage, burn and lacks Leftovers, all this in a tier where pivoting is everywhere in staples such as Mienshao itself, Zarude, Raikou, Gligar, Cobalion, Milotic, Mega Pidgeot, Mega Ampharos... However, the metagame is dominated by a force stronger than pivoting, namely Wish. Wish is a very common move in Sylveon, Togekiss and Vaporeon even before the Mega-Aggron drop. Therefore, the players of the tier have easily found out how to preserve Aggron healthy. These do not only grant Aggron a recovery source, but given their typing, they inherently form a great Fairy-Steel (even Fairy/Flying-Steel granting a Ground immunity and Aggron resisting Ice-type moves, as well as providing Defog support) or Water-Steel defensive core both of wich also pair well with Chesnaught, another top tier Pokemon. This has lead to games in which the winner is decided by how well the Aggron user plays around it.

(next point!)
Now, let's get into Aggron offensively. Although it stands a exceptional Defense of 230 and an average Special Defense of 80, its Attack stat is a incredible 140. What does it mean? It means that a 252 Jolly Lucario has almost the same Attack as uninvested Mega Aggron. Ridiculous. Moreover, its offensive movepool its exactly what it needs: Heavy Slam, which will almost always have 120 BP with STAB; Earthquake, giving a great coverage alongside the mandatory Heavy Slam; and Body Press, which allows it to win a 1v1 against an opposing Mega Aggron and Bronzong, as well as hitting harder than Earthquake. The damage Aggron deals while being the sturdiest physical wall in the tier is absolutely stupid and it only makes it much harder to set up with physical attackers when Aggron is in the game.

Offensive Calcs

0 Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lucario: 256-302 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with Press or after CC)
0 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Azelf: 229-271 (78.6 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Def Aggron-Mega Body Press vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 292-344 (90.4 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (56.3% after Rocks and OHKO after one Spike)
0 Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 210-248 (80.4 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (guaranteed after Rocks)
0 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mienshao: 262-309 (96.6 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after Rocks)
0 Atk Aggron-Mega Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-10%: 229-270 (91.9 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (87.5% after Rocks)

Moreover, if you thought that you could deal with it burning, paralyzing or sleeping it, you are most probably wrong. Do you remember the Wish users mentioned before? Well, they also run cleric moves in their standard movepool, so they do not only give Aggron recovery but also cleric suport, making it even more unbeatable.

These are the arguments of why I think Aggronite should be banned from the tier.

And now, a new Smogon Show by Dorron:

Bidoof's On the Radar

​

Necrozma's Dragon Dance set is pretty strong and can easily sweep you after some chip damage over the turns. It can either run Lum Berry to heal from status or Z-move to have a nuke for that foe that hadn't been worn down. Necrozma can also run other sets such as Special Attacker with Stealth Rock, which is pretty useful but lacks the wincon potential the Dragon Dance set has. Let's see how the metagame develops and how it affects to Necrozma!


This thing is stupid I hate it so much. It can either run Spikes and act as a wall or, more often, a Nasty Plot set with Psycho Boost (or Psychic) and Focus Blast to be walled only by other Psychic-types (namely Deoxys-D). I might not see it banworthy, but keep an eye on it!

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

Attention all Nat Dex RUers!

I have come to make an announcement! Shadow The Hedgehog is a b-

But in all seriousness, Mienshao has been banned from ND RU!



As many of the above posts pointed out, Mienshao is arguably the most centralizing and dangerous Pokemon in the Metagame, to the point where it is simply too broken.

With Choice Scarf, its blistering speed is perfectly complimented by its powerful Close Combats, which almost always mandates several CC sponges for it on your team, lest it immediately run you over. Combine that with Knock Off offering exceptional coverage against Ghosts and Psychic Types, Stone Edge and Poison Jab threatening Flying and Fairy Types respectively, and finally U-Turn generating enough momentum to run the entire U.S. for 6 weeks straight, and it can easily be seen as to why Mienshao is an absurdly good scarfer. Note that it does have to choose between Poison Jab or Stone Edge, but this is mitigated substantially by the fact that our best CC resist, Togekiss, is weak to both of them.

Now Mienshao is frail. Not to a Sharpedo level, but it does have trouble coming in much of the time. However, 2 factors substantially mitigate this weakness.

For one, the VoltTurn dominates this tier. Raikou, Crobat, Gligar, the list goes on, we have a plethora of Pivots that can easily bring in Mienshao for it to wreak havoc. And it can at the same time bring in its own partners, creating an exceptionally hard to break pivoting core. This is further capitalized by the prevalence of Spikes in this Meta, harshly punishing any attempt to stave off Mienshao and friend's onslaught, while bringing your CC sponge ever so close to kill range. And even if you're running bootspam, guess who loves spamming Knock if it isn't U-Turning.

However, what's even more pressing is Mienshao's absurd longevity, in spite of its relative frailty. Regenerator makes it borderline immune to chip. That may be an exaggeration, but Mienshao does really last the entire game, irrespective on how many Spikes have been laid under its feet.

The ability to have so few answers, offensive or defensive, while also being extremely hard to catch and dislodge thanks to U-Turn and Regenerator makes Mienshao unfortunately too much for the tier. It might not sound impossible to deal with in theory, but in practice with how dangerous it is, how hard it is to find consistent options to deal with it, plus it U-Turning on those answers anyways, pushes it to BL. Let's hope our Towel Cat is any good in UU.

Anyways thanks for reading yall, hope you have a nice day.

 

[Lupla]

Wassup, they told me to revive this so here i am. After Mienshao was banned, many things have changed in the metagame in a huge way, such as Voltturn's presence significantly nutered, speed control being awkward for some people as Mienshao was the glue in most teams & Hail being able to innovate more on their slots, as this change drastically changes up the doors for Teambuilding.

So why am i saying this? i wanted to analyze a bit in what are the mons that are affecting the meta a lot currently and having a suspicious presence in the meta.

"YOU DO NOT KILL CLOWN. CLOWN KILLS Y O U!"​

Anyway memes aside, lets start with a big one. Ever since Necrozma gained Dragon Dance in Gen 8, the set took off as a huge threat thats extremely hard to deal with, sometimes sweeping entire teams without a second thought and the methods used agaisnt it not being the most ideal ones and not being difficult to cover or deal with. Psychic/Ground is a combo that almost no mon is able to handle, Zarude despite resisting both of these moves, falls down to Necrozma's X-Scissor, which has no trouble in fitting on as it has decent side benefits like hitting other Necrozma's, Deoxys-Defense, Celebi, etc. With a considerable win rate in most matches from the current tournament, most people are claiming for a ban on this pokemon, as its not just Dragon Dance (which by itself is a pretty good set) but also the flexibility with sets, as its able to run a variety of setup variants with good stats across the board and his access to Meteor Beam, Calm Mind, Autotomize & good coverage. So why is it not banned? well this is gonna be a frequent argument, it has been ignored for the majority of the meta until things have settled a little, and the counterplay has evolved in not just trying to brawl with it using your entire team. Golisopod has been seen as a pretty good check thats also a great fit in the general metagame but it requires some chip for First Impression to handle it, the presence of Hazards or to be specific, Spikes, hurts his capabilities for taking hits and setup, so it has to be careful in how it decides to play the game, Status is a death sentence but sometimes it carries Lum Berry which also gives it safer opportunities to setup and blast throught the opponent. So is it Broken? If you ask me then maybe but the majority of the people arent in favor of letting such a threat stay around and even the whole discussion being by just 1 set. Will it be Banned? Judging by most people's opinions it seems like its going towards a ban, i'd like to hear more thoughts about this.

Ok we chilled out with the big shot so lets try to play a bit passive from here on out. Deoxys Defense is a really surprising mon to be part from RarelyUsed, as a former uber, it suffered a lot and even now it doesnt like the introduction of Heavy-Duty Boots due to his lack of damage output. It settled as a really good but underrated choice in the metagame and no one complained about it. But recently the prominence of Spikes took off and this, alongside the insane walling capabilities agaisnt offensive threats such as Toxtricity, Nidoqueen, Rhyperior, Mega Pidgeot, Raikou, etc. It may not dish out that much damage but hazards are able to fix that issue because as common as Boots may be, not all pokemon are able to carry it for specific reasons such as Sylveon, Vaporeon, Chesnaught, Mega Aggron, Etc. What differences it itself from other Spikers is the great Matchup spread it has with a lot of mons & Defoggers, Taunting all of them and keeping Spikes up while Seismic Toss leaves some work done. Taunt and his decent speed tier is the crucial thing here that allows Deoxys Defense to not stay completely passive and make progress agaisnt both Offense and Defense alongside great bulk & Pressure's quick pp drain. Even Nasty Plot sets are decent choices but overall what defines this mon is his sheer walling & Spikes stacking capabilities. It may not be as obnoxious as Mienshao or Necrozma but it has left a really huge mark in the metagame ever since the tour thread appeared.

Why did it took me this long to bring this mon up? Simple, i could care less about it and i already made my post in regards about this mon, most of my points would be the same and people already dicussed about it. Its currently undecided on how is this thing gonna end up as the community & council is really mixed and decided to give it more time to see if its broken or perfectly fine.

EXTRAS:

Spikes Not saying i wanna ban Spikes lol, but i originally wanted to come up with a meta recap, rather than discussing mons, but i wanted to add up something interesting and yes, this meta is currently filled with a lot of Spikes users that are really good at their job & with the meta in general (Look at Deo-D if you want to).

(Aurora Veil) This move is something i wanted to take care of in the middle of the tour as it really impacted a lot in both new players & the tournament, but it could also impact in how Hail could affect the metagame, since Mienshao would leave at that same time as well so it, alongside the 3 mentioned mons from before, stays like normal but an unban is def gonna come up after the tournament.

lol unban it, oldest shit to be banned and Electric Terrain teams with Pincurchin seem really gimmicky in general, i wasnt there to look for it, but its better to take care of whats problematic first and we can have more of these things in here later.

Man im feeling guilty about this mon in how we rushed things a lot but we had a server tournament with Polteageist and Nidoking so we decided to ban hammer it alongside the other two but its likely its gonna be tested soon.

Now THIS has caught up my eye, some points about NP are correct in that its actually hard to wall and Boots has excellent utility but it hasn't been seen much play or success to actually do something about it. As for me, i run into Incineroar & Mega Houndoom everyday so rip.

If you wanna share something else then be free to! id like to see more opinions about how things are right now and if you wanna correct me because i feel like this post is kinda mid.

 

[db]

(still october in my timezone so I’m not late wooo) What’s good frens, hope yall did fun things for Halloween :] I wanted to make an attempt to revive this thread with a small “project” if you can call it that, that I’ve been adding to since the beginning of October. https://pokepast.es/4ba61dd7c8a87e47

A bit before the beginning of the month, I decided it would be fun to think of the usable ghosts this tier has, and make a team with one every day. (Every one of the mimikyu teams were painful to sit through, ha…) jokes aside, even though some of these were rushed and some of them are a little outdated thanks to the recent Mienshao ban, I believe most of these came out better than I expected them to. Anyone who cares enough to read through this and click the paste, feel free to steal and make any edits, and I hope to see a bit of activity going on here!

 

[Furret4ssb]

Hello! Yes it’s me again, back this time to do a teamdump of my builds from the tour I unfortunately was eliminated in the last round. If ur just here for the teams, heres a dump with everything: https://pokepast.es/4a9cdde19ddbab82
There are also a few bonus teams which I built but they kinda sucked so I made something new instead of using them.

~~Team Explanations~~

https://pokepast.es/632570b55ec30864
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1444435044
Medicham + Chandelure is a very potent offensive core, as chande is able to break the few medi counters like deod. Cm raikou is not very common (this is the first time i've ever used it and maybe the second time i've seen it), but that works to its advantage with a massive surprise factor. Overall I'm pretty happy with this build, although it definitely has some issues, such as the scarf zarude mu, which I do have crobat for but there's no dark resist so if crobat gets low rude just spams lariat. Overall I'd say this team is like 8/10.


https://pokepast.es/f1d4c8bbd6d905a8
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1444429623
The volcanion set is pretty whack if im being honest. Heavy slam catches sylveon, but probably something like hp grass is better, just didn't feel good about the sylveon mu here. Fightz is cool tech on cobalion as opposed to steelium to catch checks like volcanion and gastrodon. The flygon was originally scarf with hdb rude and defog volcanion, but this version seems to work better. There's definitely some set tweaking that could be tried here.


https://pokepast.es/7347afdd3cbd71fb
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1444423621
Zygarde + toxt is a pretty interesting idea, as toxtricity can switch in on zyg checks like togekiss and break effectively before allowing zygarde to clean. The raikou mu isn’t exactly bad on this team, but it does require aggressive plays as there's no actual long term switchin.Overall i'd rate this team 7/10.

https://pokepast.es/e0fad0d7da81bbda
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1438544991
Sd bruxish seems like an interesting breaker, but unfortunately mega aggron had to drop and ruin its day.. If you want to experiment, rose might be able to run hp fire to lure maggron. Incin was sd for the hatt mu, it could run something else now that I fit magg on the build, but I'm lazy and it works fine anyways. This build is a weak 5/10.


https://pokepast.es/6cf0ee0c86355358
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1438543158
Here’s the good stuff. Hp grass canion lures seismitoad and gastrodon, while volc in general is great for magg, which are the biggest threats that stop barb from sweeping. Aerial ace is really funny if there’s a chesnaught, although be wary that it has a 20% chance of living +2 ace with no rocks.. Overall this is 100% my favorite team I’ve built recently, and I rate it 10/10.


https://pokepast.es/1c54c190b788edd2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1438537996-ib7waxhtd9f6lt99seztone25vp9v44pw
I’m not a huge fan of this team. The motown was originally supposed to check maggron, but I removed tbolt so now it doesn’t check magg lmao. There was a mienshao originally, but it got banned so I kinda just slapped on garde because I couldn’t think of anything else.


https://pokepast.es/8e6ba7c67bbeec2e
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1432382734
Pretty standard team, so not a lot to explain. Definitely a good team though. 8/10

Secret Extra Bonus Team

https://pokepast.es/2610f5ca3a8755c4
I built this after the tour, but I liked it so I decided to include it as an extra bonus not in the first paste because I’m lazy. I built around medi + chande again because it's a really fun core. Toge had to be spdef here for the pidge mu. I did have a different version of this team (https://pokepast.es/710df54dfac0eba1), but the second version works better imo, haven’t had a lot of time to test this so definitely try tweaking it if you want.

 

[Dorron]

Well I did it in the Discord but my friend TheWeirdGastrodon wanted it to be here so literally copying and pasting.


I want to nominate Medicham from UR to at least B.

Medicham is a stupid wallbreaker (and everything-breaker) which does 2HKO the whole tier. It also has a decent speed tier which allows it to outspeed a great part of the meta, including Volcanion, Barbaracle, Necrozma, Metagross and ties with Chandelure, Gardevoir and Regidrago, as well as having priority in Bullet Punch. Moreover, it resists rock so Stealth Rock is dealing only 6% when switching in. Medicham is best paired with pivot support, and we have a lot of it in the tier in the most prominent staples such as Raikou, Zarude, Crobat, Milotic, Gligar, Azelf and Flygon, among others.

Here two replays where Medicham destroys https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1432249094-8stczd0ubugm62rd27o3ujzhg05qhdlpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1432555386-2uj6vxtyy1z5x6hlb25655n5ojo50ejpw

And added to this post, the nom did have a good feedback with the Discord reactions, as well as Furret posting a few teams with it, proving that it really works (?).

And now some of my teams (and Sample Submissions) (click the sprites!).


I don't really know how I end up building the teams as they are, so I won't giving long explanations. This was the first team I tried with Medicham (I think I use it in at least one of the replays). I first tried Choice Band Adamant which works pretty well (can OHKO PhysDef Milotic for example) and has priority in Bullet Punch which works for the likes of Mega Pidgeot and taking weakened foes in general. I paired it with Mega Houndoom as Deoxys-D fully stops Cham and it's a good setup sweeper in general. Raikou is there for the pivoting it offers as well as pressuring Gastrodon and Seismitoad for Doom. Ches+Gligar work for hazard setting and removal, Gligar + Milotic help me with pivoting into Medicham and they all form a good defensive core. I chose SpD Gligar due to the Raikou matchup. I think this team might be a bit weak to Medicham indeed and Freeze-Dry, but the tier lacks Ice-types in general which leads me to the next team.


I tried Crabominable a few games and I must say it's not that bad. The defensive cores in the tier are not always prepared to deal with Ice-types as they are not very prominent, and here's when Crabominable appears. It hits very hard and with unresisted STAB besides Chandelure and a few Water-types, the reason it also runs Thunder Punch and Stone Edge. Crabominable is pretty weak defensively and can't threaten a lot of things offensively due to its poor Speed tier, so pivoting is totally necessary here. I am also running Raikou and Milotic+Gligar because they are simply too good. Zarude is my way to keep pressuring Water-types so Raikou can get rid of HP Grass and is one of the best pivots in the tier. Registeel over Chesnaught simply because I wanted to change a bit and I can wall Zarude with Gligar anyways (and now the team is much better with Mienshao's ban). I don't know why I am running that Gligar spread so use whichever you want.


This is the first team I built and felt proud of because of me being so good in this videogame called building random things. At first glance it just seems to be a bulky team with a clear Freeze-Dry weakness but who cares Pidgeot and Zarude as the offensive members. However, here I am running two very interesting Pokemon. First, Copycat Sylveon. What does it do? What doesn't it do would be a more accurate question. It can copy Spikes from a Chesnaught it forces out, a U-turn / Volt Switch / Flip Turn to keep momentum, Knock Off and even Toxic if you feel that the opposing Pokemon is more valuable than yours. Trust me, it has given me a lot of games by just Copycating like a psycho. The other different set is Bulk Up Darkinium Zarude. You might think that it is shit with Aggron and Togekiss wandering the tier, and well, it does have trouble with them but nothing that playing well can't mitigate in 60 turns.


To be honest the original idea was using Silvally-Ice and Yanmega in the same team but that didn't go well (who would have expected!) so I remade the team completely. Still using Yanmega which hits really hard (2HKOes SpD Mega Aggron) and still keeps momentum with U-turn and poisons foes like Sylveon and Gastrodon with Toxic. Swords Dance Groundium Z Rhyperior is a great Pokemon to surprise your opponent that OHKOes anything that doesn't resist it, which will be hit super effectively by either Ice Punch or Stone Edge. I tried something different with Roserade too and made it Technician + HP Ice to hit Noivern, Flygon and Gligar. Refresh Milotic over Toxic or Ice Beam as I am not running Heal Bell and I considered it necessary in this team. You will probably just Refresh if poisoned, as the burn damage is mitigated by Leftovers and grants you a Defense boost.


The third Zarude and the third different Zarude set. Now we have Choice Band + Close Combat which is really unexpected. Some good calcs are very high odds to OHKO Nidoqueen, more than 50% of KOing Volcanion with U-turn + Power Whip and a high chance to OHKO Cobalion with Close Combat, guaranteed after a Spike. We can't run Copycat Sylveon here as there are no Toxic absorbers besides Nidoqueen (who can't switch in Volcanion) and Zarude isn't running Jungle Healing neither. Volcanion isn't running a full Speed spread as I needed its bulk defensively to be the Defogger of the team. Nidoqueen just runs the standard set which hits really hard and sets hazards and the rest of the team is pretty basic.


This team is very bad / idk how to play Trick Room (I would say both), but the setters and abusers the tier has are very interesting. Hatterene is a suicide lead that sets Trick Room, uses Healing Wish which can be used later in the game and avoids opposing hazards / Taunts with Magic Bounce. Camerupt Marowak and Stakataka are the main abusers and Cresselia and Diancie are the others setters. I don't know what more to say, abusers hit hard and setters are bulky, as Trick Room works. You may take an idea from the team and build your own.


A Shuckle HO. I haven't seen many of them when playing with people from the server. The main Pokemon is obviously Shuckle as it sets hazards to enable sweeps for the rest. Articuno-Galar will take advantage of the opposing Defogger and setting up in front of it. Shadow Ball is the chosen option here but you can also go Recover / whatever you find useful, but it helps dealing with Bronzong, as well as Deo-D and Azelf reliably. Feraligatr and Lucario are the conventional set up sweepers everybody knows about. Feraligatr outspeeds everything but Mega Pidgeot and Crobat after a Dragon Dance and Sticky Web up, which is huge. Lucario just dismantles teams clicking CC and Extreme Speed. You can run LO (you probably should) as it hits harder and gives a lot of KOs Sash doesn't, but the latter can be very unexpected and works very well if your opponent hasn't set up hazards. Mega Houndoom does Mega Houndoom things, nothing to explain. Belly Drum Chesnaught acts as a mini Kommo-o and, like Feraligatr, outspeeds everything but Mega Pidgeot and Crobat after Salac Berry. While Pidgeot is KOed thanks to Substitute, Crobat may have Infiltrator so it's not a good idea to set up Ches if there's a Crobat. The team works really well even when Web is removed, so you could potentially change Shuckle for a safer rocks user like Deo-D with double hazards Recover and Taunt.


This team isn't the best but is really fun to play, and I couldn't give some teams without giving a NP Azelf one. Passimian simply is a Mienshao replace: Fighting-type with Speed control, Knock Off and U-turn. It also has Defiant so we can take advantage of Defog users (they are Flying-type / hit hard, so watch out). Weezing-Galar used to wall Mienshao but is very reliable to check things like Zarude and other physical attackers, but it isn't as viable as it was in the Mienshao meta. Registeel just wears down opposing special attackers with Toss + ToxTect and sets up rocks. Vaporeon is the reincarnation of Sylveon and also runs Copycat to do what Copycat Sylveon does. Obstagoon hits really hard and the only Pokemon that resist its STABs are Lucario and Cobalion, both of which don't enjoy receiving a Close Combat. Nasty Plot Azelf is a great set up sweeper that outspeeds most of the metagame and has great coverage, as well as being able to run a Z-Move, something Doom can't do. The team is a bit outdated and you may try looking for a replace for Weezing, but is still usable.


I wanted to wait for the tour to end to post these teams but I couldn't wait more. I hope these help you to start playing the tier. Also consider all them Sample Submissions (why not).

 

[Snak]

Snak's Hail (pokepast.es)

Thought I would share this hail team i made with some other people, its a basic hail team with milotic and gligar for some b u l k-iness, volcanion to as a bulky attacker, and scarfed passimian to replace the banned mienshao (R.I.P Mienshao).

 

[Reece]

Time to revive this thread a bit since i think it has great potential if we start it up again since so many things have not been explored yet:

I would like to nominate Yanmega from C+-> B

Yanmega's wall breaking capability is insane right now due to the meta's steel heavy cores with the introduction of Mega Aggron as it can blitz through Steelix/Aggron + Noivern cores that are becoming increasingly popular. Its speed tier right now is probably at a sweet spot to dominate slower and more bulkier teams that rely on a steel as their bug/flying check. It was fairly obvious that Choice Specs tinted lens would be good again in an RU format, it just needed some time to be re-discovered. Despite Yanmega being in a good position right now, i don't believe it will end up any higher than a B tier due to the fact of the constant support it needs from defoggers and potentially Hatterene support as most stealth rock setters as the moment do not like yanmega, but fitting a defogger with Yanmega is ridiculously hard when trying not to lose to Raikou etc. Rapid spin is the more tedious option with ghosts like Chandelure becoming more present so getting hazards off the filed with Yanmega can be unreliable. However without this, Yanmega has a distinguished niche as a wallbreaker.

Ampharos-M from B-> B+/A-

Ampharos has become so prevalent in the meta in my eyes right now due the lack of counterplay to its Volt Switch potential. Anything that loves coming in on Volt Switch gets obliterated by its coverage of either Focus Blast or Hidden Power Grass. Im not going to mention HP Ice as Dragon Pulse is far more valuable and its the Ground/Dragon switch ins anyways. It takes advantage completely on the Bulky Water+ Steel-type cores right now such as Milotic and Mega Steelix which not many things can do. I wouldn;t place this in the same tier as Raikou as the speed control that comes with Raikou outclassed Ampharos at the moment, but i could see in the future if it picked up more usage in the upcoming Snake Draft or in tournaments it could easily rise to A in my opinon.

Calcs

252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Steelix-Mega: 282-332 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roserade: 175-207 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Ampharos-Mega: 133-157 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Ampharos-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 200+ SpD Aggron-Mega: 300-354 (87.4 - 103.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
56 Atk Aggron-Mega Earthquake vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Ampharos-Mega: 192-228 (57.3 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Necrozma from A+ -> S

Now this could be a surprise to some, or a well anticipated post but this thing is so dominant as of now. It has far too much flexibility in sets to not be top tier. It can obliterate through teams if you prepare for the wrong set so i'm only going to go into detail of its main two sets being Dragon Dance and Calm Mind. With the rise in popularity over Toxic spamming to beat Necrozma i believe Lum Berry is in a great place right now for Dragon Dance since it can easily set up with things like Milotic switching in and KO it in two without having Status on it. Groundium-Z and Psychium-Z are also great mentions since they can overwhelm popular Bulky Waters or Steels. Calm Mind is extremely dangerous with cleric support in addition to having recovery; making its versatility in coverage pushing it over the edge and easily making it S tier.

Volcanion from A- -> A+

Volcanion having arguably the best dual type along with toxic is why it is so prevalent right now. I can can honestly say that there is no counterplay to this thing other than vaporeon, however can be too inconsistent to be deemed top tier. It takes advantage of the potency of Bulky Water type+ Bulky Steel+ Flying type as it can blast through with steam eruption. The only issue with this is that random burns on Milotic can hard wall Volcanion unless you are running the FireSpin+Grassium-Z set.

Now i am going to move onto some teams i created that I'm particularly please with (Sample Submissions)


My main aim for this team was abusing the amount of damage Ampahros can generate from Volt Switch pressure so i created a Volt Turn core, despire it dying down in popularity recently. I placed HP Grass on Ampahros as since Gastro/Seismitoad if specially invested are good counterplay to Dragon Pulse, so eliminating them is key. Rest is used since quite obviously, this team is weak to Toxic Raikou so having Ampharos stay healthy is vital for checking this. I placed it with Zarude for speed control specifically, as well as the ability to remove Ground for Ampharos. Next was Bronzong as i needed a Flygon check now, its great role compression serves a good purpose in Toxic spam on it, whilst i needed some form of Hazards on the team. Volcanion was next in teambuilding as i believe that it is probably one of the strongest breakers within the tier right now as nothing is really a viable check to it other than Starmie, to which i have both Ampharos and Zarude counterplay. Toxic again seems questionable to have on 2 mons but Volcanion getting it off on a Bulky Water probably would not be replicated on Bronzong as it does not want to be Scald burnt.
Next was Crobat as it has great synergy with Zarude and i needed a defogger which suited this team perfectly. Finally, Vaporeon is a cleric for Volcanion and Ampharos, waking it up from rest whilst giving Bronzong wish support.

Replays:
lupla vs. reeceALT
MAc3 ✝ vs. reeceALT

Issues? - The main one i have faced would be Toxic Raikou but i have tried to build around the matter. Hail can be a bit obnoxious but when isn't it, there is counterplay to it.


Wanted to build around Necrozma to show how busted it could be under the right support. I chose Psychium Z because you can't get be effected by Toxic if you nuke everything. With this i pacthed the weaknesses with both Togekiss and Steelix; they have great synergy and Togekiss offers wish support for both Necrozma and Steelix with hazard removal. Milotic was my go to check for Darmanitan and Volcanion. Zarude once again is for speed control that i quite needed whilst breaking holes into Deoxys-D and Bulky Waters. Darmanitan is my pivot that can break through bulky Steels that is needed for Necrozma to sweep.

Replays:
jackfruit vs. reeceALT
lupla vs. reeceALT

Issues?- Roserade and Rhyperior can be an issue that i've found, to play around them i found that offensive switches with Darmanitan are needed in conjunction to Zarude but they can be resolved.

s/o to Dorron,Lupla and Mac3 to helping me test teams; as well as the rest of the NDRU matchmaking discord giving me some great ideas that i will post at a later day. Hope these are suitable for new people to pick up as this tier could easily be something big!

 

[Lupla]

After a discussion that was around a long time ago and now im posting it in the thread as well (i forgot smh):


Alolan Raichu and Aurora Veil have been unbanned from National Dex RU

We hoped to unban these two a long time ago and with the Snake Tournament around, it has been decided to unban these for it. We also got some voting on certain pokemon that will be checked on after the tournament so look forward to that!

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

After a discussion that was around a long time ago and now im posting it in the thread as well (i forgot smh):


Alolan Raichu and Aurora Veil have been unbanned from National Dex RU

We hoped to unban these two a long time ago and with the Snake Tournament around, it has been decided to unban these for it. We also got some voting on certain pokemon that will be checked on after the tournament so look forward to that!

I believe I also ought to explain the rationale between the Unbans.



Alolan Raichu's ban was super outdated, as it was quite literally in the first Ban Wave over a year ago. Lupla hadn't even joined yet at that point. Back then ND RU was a very different beast, with absurd picks like Mega Manectric and Gyarados being free to spam. Neadless to say it was something of an extraordinary mess. Alolan Raichu was notable due to its almost unwallable Rising Voltage, great coverage, and absurd speed in E Terrain. While it did need rigid support, it just too heavily pressured teams already spread thin dealing with the multitude of offensive threats, and thus it was banned. The Meta did eventually settle with various rises and bans, but with UU constantly dropping broken threat after broken threat, and Alolan Raichu generally being considered low priority over other potential unbans, it remained RU BL until this fateful week. Hopefully yall could make some cool teams with it, even if it is something of a gimmick.



Aurora Veil was also a fairley old Ban. In short, Veil was pretty broken. It made offense way too hard to deal with. However, after the Banning of Light Clay, it's been more or less neutred and is far easier to play around. Hail has recently picked up a lot, and I'm looking forward to see how we become SS OU but epic.

Hope yall have a wonderful day, and enjoy the unbans.

 

[Furret4ssb]

Shifts are out!
Drops
uu -> ru
uu-> ru
uu-> ru

Rises
ru -> uu
ru -> uu
ru -> uu
ru -> uu
ru -> uu
ru -> uu

 

[Dorron]

this is bad

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

Thank to the awesome Nat Dex Staff, we have a Channel on the Official Nat Dex Discord! If you're interested in joining the Server here's the link: https://discord.gg/7KHQTspP

 

[Darkortex]

Nat dex UU logic. Talonflame rises to a tier where it's unviable while Bisharp drops to the tier down below

 

[Lupla]

I haven't played the tier ever since i left council but im still gonna go for some thoughts on things rn just for the funsies

Honorable Mentions


Necrozma: Pretty much everyone is waiting for SSJRobbieRotten to post the ban that everyone has been asking for a while and mostly being called out really hard on RU Snake because of how centralizing it is due to having a billion of ways to kill the entire tier lol. Its gone finally

Raises And others: Huge L that we took during January shifts but we can't really do anything agaisnt the ND UU ladder constantly killing our hopes and dreams.

Unbans And others: Luna's Banned now proposing Bulu caught my eye as it really does seem to be broken but it may be worth the try on the future.

Recent Council Changes: Thanks Chemical_Jackfruit for sticking around with us and we hope you stay safe! And congratulations Derpyboi for finally becoming a Council Member!.

With that out of the way, lets get moving on some thoughts about the recent additions for the tier.



This is one of the mons that was in this tier on the semi-early stages of the meta, with the prominence of Chesnaught and Cobalion or offensive checks like Mega Houndoom, it wasn't really considered broken but imo it was always a huge threat even if you were packing those fighters. Currently we gained some decent counterplay for Bisharp through time such as Mega Aggron and Alomomola (which ill get down to later) alongside the existing options, but the thing is that Bish can easily pressure most of them via Knock Off, Coverage or just slowly chipping them. The last one being specially dangerous due to the meta having dozens of excellent Spikers that are able to pressure the opposition such as Roserade, Deoxys-Defense, Chesnaught, Golisopod, etc. The defoggers that are able to beat the Spikers are unable to beat Bisharp either and they also have to take the risk of using Defog and giving it a +2 boost meanwhile the ones that are able to threaten both like Defog Volcanion, are unable to switch in safely (and fast deo-d's just sit on Volc anyway). This makes it a lose-lose scenario for the opponent that's unable to safely remove hazards or deal with the opposing BIsharp without taking huge risks but even then Bisharp has enough power to deal with opposing offense thanks to his strong priority and Knock Off making sure you do some progress.

i hate this mon here

252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Milotic: 222-262 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 217-256 (72 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Golisopod: 190-225 (56.8 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Emergency Exit forced)
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 277-327 (100 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pidgeot-Mega: 220-259 (71.6 - 84.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde-10%: 243-286 (97.5 - 114.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Prism Armor Necrozma: 271-321 (80.8 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

While the calcs are from Adamant (which does miss out on things like being tied with Volcanion), it pmuch shows off Bisharp's strength while the support is easy to fit on teams. The previously mentioned steels and fighters (and also M-Doom kind of) are able to come in and tank it mostly but the problem comes in that most of them don't have reliable recovery or the longevity needed to check Bish through the match and all of them except Chesnaught, which avoids all of the mentioned problems besides hazard stacking, are hella vulnerable by Low Kick which you can fit on since Pursuit is not always needed (Trapping Deo-D is nice but that's the only thing it traps safely, most of the other targets are fishy matchups).

Low Kick Rolls

(Not even counting hazards in here)
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Filter Aggron-Mega: 150-177 (43.6 - 51.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Steelix-Mega: 194-230 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndoom-Mega: 228-270 (78.3 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (im surprised this tanks it better than the others kek)
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 336-396 (104 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Chople takes more than half for some reason)

While it may be unwise to say that it should just be straight up banned or something seeing as there's very little play these days, i still stand up by the fact that even thought there may be methods to offensively deal with it or play around it due to things like not having the best bulk or speed, that doesn't change the fact its still a huge threat that needs to be kept in check.


Im not really gonna go throught Mola as much as i did with Bisharp since i haven't used this mon that much in general but it does make some good defensive cores with most of the steels in the tier thanks to the endless longevity of Regenerator alongside Wish + Protect and great bulk. This makes it much less pressured by status or chip damage compared to other bulky waters like Milotic when it comes to check things like Choice Band Zygarde-10%, Swords Dance Cobalion, Dragon Dance Necrozma and other walls such as Registeel, Rhyperior, Rocks Metagross, Mega Aggron, Etc.

Calcs

252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 204-241 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 255-300 (53 - 62.3%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (Risks taking one or two scalds)
+1 252 Atk Necrozma Photon Geyser vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 178-210 (37 - 43.6%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Golurk Poltergeist vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 237-280 (49.2 - 58.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 40 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 211-249 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO

While it does offer some good walling capabilities, it does suffer from the meta having many electric and grasses available such as Raikou, Arctozolt, Roserade, Vileplume, Zarude as well as other pokemon that it simply cannot handle such as Nasty Plot Togekiss or Sub Toxic Volcanion and lastly the presence of spikes hurting it a lot. While those problems are really common, the good trades it offers are appealing and it looks like its gonna be a good part of the meta and who knows, maybe stall revives or something.

Thanks for reading this manifesto of a tier that i haven't played for a long time and i hope it could have some life back like before at the very least.

 

[Gangsta Spongebob]

A longoverdue announcement, Necrozma has been banned from Nat Dex RU!

Dragon Dance

Necrozma @ Lum Berry / Weakness Policy / Groundium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- X-Scissor

Dragon Dance Necrozma is almost unanimously considered the most dangerous Pokemon in Nat Dex RU. With fantastic bulk for a sweeper, a high power STAB in Photon Geyser, and near-perfect coverage in Earthquake and X-Scissor, Necrozma is virtually garuntee a at least 1 KO against every team. Lum Berry was the standard, as it allowed for even more setup opportunites against walls hoping that Status could limit its onslaught. Gligar and Bronzong are the only Pokemon that can consistently stave off Necrozma. Otherwise, some tanks Mega Aggron and Rhyperior can try to 1v1 Necrozma , though they often needed to be in prisitine condition to do so. Some walls could try still try for a Burn or Poison despite the Lum Berry, but they still required to have the health to at least take a +2 Attack. People have experimented with other items, most notably Weakness Policy to take advantage of Knock Off and Groundium-Z to brute force the few checks that could somewhat take an Earthquake. None were as effective as Lum Berry, but these items are still very powerful nonetheless. While DDance as it is enough to get it banned, Necrozma is far from a one-trick pony.

Meteor Beam Sets

Necrozma @ Power Herb
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Autotomize
- Meteor Beam
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave

Necrozma @ Power Herb
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Beam
- Photon Geyser
- Heat Wave

Meteor Beam sets take advantage of the fear of Dragon Dance and anihilates all its few inconsistent checks. The Steels die to Heat Wave, and Gligar and Rhyperior stand no chance against a +1 Special Photon Geyser. It is already an exceptionally dangerous Pokemon in its own right, and while it isn't as hard to check as DDance, it forces players respect a set with completely different answers at the same time.

As a result of these factors, the Nat Dex RU Council has chosen to unanamously ban Necrozma from Nat Dex RU.

 

[Ideekay]

is this tier getting a ladder anytime soon?

 

[db]

is this tier getting a ladder anytime soon?

No