Announcement National Dex Suspect 9: Dark Horse

[Jordy]

This seems more of an issue with stall people being used to having enemy teams built around them and unable to adapt to the new meta, just because people can't easily snatch wins with stall anymore doesn't mean the meta should be shifted in their favor.

Let's have a quick look at this replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1257792813-hthrsjdt65y73opjjcd9tpgrdm9red6pw

Did I not try to adapt to Spectrier with this team? No, I have Hydreigon which should theoretically be a good check. To claim that I (and everyone else) am not even attempting to adapt to Spectrier is blatantly false. Am I not trying hard enough? I don't think so. Unless you want me to run Alolan Muk stall that loses to a dozen other Pokemon and usually makes the team end up with mediocre entry hazard removal, this is truthfully the best adaptation I can think of. I guess specially defensive Tyranitar that lets in a lot of Pokemon due to it being generally weak and constricted for moveslots is an option too...

This claim is nonsense and I don't think it should even be brought up in this discussion. The fact of the matter is that there is barely any room to adapt without bringing a lot of other flaws to the table and that even the little room that there is to adapt is faulty. Whether stall is strong or not shouldn't be a concern. I don't care much about what specific archetype is strong and what isn't, but I don't think that the majority of games should primarily be decided by matchup or not.

In fact, it's Spectrier that makes bulky offensive and balance teams that typically reward outplaying instead of getting a good matchup much, much worse.

 

[Padstar34]

I 100% want Spectrier to be banned. Most of my points have already been said by others, so I am going to focus on something a few people are forgetting about. Groundium Z Spectrier is very much usable, although very rare. While admittedly very much outclassed by Normalium and Ghostium, Groundium Z can punish the Tyranitar & Mega Tyranitar switch-ins that Ghostium and Normalium can't. Regular band TTar is OHKO'd by Tectonic rage after rocks, and Mega Tar gets rolled after 1 single correct double by Spectrier with rocks, or by predicting a pursuit and Nasty Plotting, OHKOing the Tar (although Spectrier might die to sand in the next few turns). This set does make it completely useless against Hydreigon, however, can beat common TTar and MTar sets with 1 single prediction. This set also beats AV AMuk with rocks, although the same thing can be said about Z Hyper Beam.

TTar Calcs

+2 252 SpA Spectrier Tectonic Rage (100 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 316-372 (92.3 - 108.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Spectrier Tectonic Rage (100 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 270-318 (74.3 - 87.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252 SpA Spectrier Tectonic Rage (100 BP) vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 404-476 (111.2 - 131.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Spectrier: 260-308 (76 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

AMuk Calcs

+4 252 SpA Spectrier Tectonic Rage (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 358-422 (86.6 - 102.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
36 Atk Muk-Alola Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Spectrier: 230-272 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The point I am trying to make here is that crippling the MTar with Will-O-Wisp and disabling the TTar is by no means the only way to deal with MTar and TTar. This further accentuates Spectrier's ability to Beat out its checks with its fairly coverage-barren movepool. Spectrier's ability to win matchups against the Pokémon meant to beat it, whilst plowing through the rest is why I want this pokemon banned.

 

[The Gamer of Whimsy]

I am very new to Pokemon Showdon and smogon, but even I know to vote Ban for Spectrier. I have created a set with a Grimmsnarl for Light Screen and Reflect set-up that has proven more than potent for Spectrier. With this set-up, Spectrier can usually survive a sucker punch or other super effective moves, even without a Substitute. In this playthrough, even with Spectrier burned, the Light Screen and Reflect saved Spectrier from fainting and allowed for Spectrier to team wipe the opponent. Spectrier's special attack just ramps up so quickly, even without the need for a Nasty Plot. Even a Knock Off by a Zeraora proved useless against this L. Screen Reflect Combo. Even for pokemon that can resist Ghost type moves, the Z-Power Ever-lasting Nightmare shuts them down quickly too. I have a terrible team, I know it, but Spectrier carries it.
(I also have a variation of this team, with a Serperior Light Screen, Reflect, and Glare combo that works really well too.)

The Replay in Question

 

[Baltimore Beedrills]

Not going to vote, but I recently played a battle against a Spectrier and found out just how reasonably bulky the fucker is:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1260786673

To be fair, though, there's only one problem here: Ghost resists Poison. That said, Adaptability is a very strong ability, and although Mega Beedrill isn't the hardest hitter, an Atk stat of 150 is nothing to laugh at (mind you, it's about 20 higher than Tyranitar, which seems to currently be the best counter to this horse). I assume the Spectrier set being used was the recommended OU Substitute set which does require a little investment into some of its defenses, but this only demonstrates that the horse's bulk can be worked with to provide a little more longevity. While one can argue that this could screw the pony's potential as a wall-breaker by not investing fully into offense, it's also important to remember that this thing's speed is pretty damn good for the OU tier, and its Sp. Atk stat is scary. We also need to take its ablity into account, which is essentially a special version of Moxie. Many other arguments about it, such as beating Blissey or being very centralizing, have already been covered in this thread so I won't reiterate those, but I think we have plenty of reasons to warrant a ban.

 

[Jordy]

Voting is now up! The thread can be found here.

 

[Jordy]

Spectrier has been banned from National Dex! The voting can be found here.