https://pokepast.es/21366a589c5b82f4
ND Ubers is the tier I've been most successful in ever. I'm currently top 40 on the ladder (different account than what I uploaded the paste with) and the highest ELO I've reached with this specific team is ~1810. I really enjoy this tier, and wanted to share the most well-rounded team I've made in it. I'd consider it somewhere between balance and bulky offense.
Ho-Oh:
Absolutely amazing. My hot take is that behind P-Groudon and some form of Arceus, Ho-Oh is like a borderline mandatory inclusion on almost every team. It's the best defogger by far and the main reason why hazards aren't especially strong in the tier from my point of view. Sacred Fire is good damage against targets like Zacian-C, Yveltal, Xerneas, Necrozma-Dusk Mane, and Marshadow. It's not even terrible damage against Primal Groudon because of the sun it sets (P-Groudon functionally has no recovery so every bit of damage you get on it sticks). The 50% burn chance is amazing, especially against Arceus, Mega Salamence, Ultra Necrozma, and Zacian. Grass tera was a change I made yesterday and haven't had the time to fully test it yet. The idea is that you bait Zacians into clicking Wild Charge, tera grass, tank that hit if you're not at full HP (+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 220+ Def Ho-Oh: 260-306 (62.6 - 73.7%), and then Sacred Fire to probably KO it after WC recoil. With Primal Groudon, the hope is to survive a Stone Edge and then bait a fire attack to tank with Kyogre or Arceus. Defog is mandatory for hazard removal and recover is there because Ho-Oh is the best thing to absorb incoming Toxics and recover boosts your longevity with that. This Ho-Oh set is the defensive glue holding every team I make together, and this team isn't an exception.
Zygarde:
I really enjoy this set. Didn't come up with it myself, but tera normal + Extreme Speed is unironically amazing. For Zygarde-Complete's job of being a fat wall, normal is a fine defensive typing and importantly makes you immune to Spectral Thief. Usually you switch into a Precipice Blades, Behemoth Blade, Arceus Extreme Speed, or Yveltal Dark Pulse to get down to 40-60% HP, then proceed to click Rest or Coil. Against teams with Whirlwind Ho-Oh it's very unreliable mid-game (especially if you use up your Chesto Berry) but that moveset isn't ultra-common as far as I'm aware. Coil boosting defense drastically increases longevity compared to if it was running Dragon Dance, and it's especially valuable against opposing Ditto and Foul Play from Yveltal or Arceus. Tera Normal giving a boost to ESpeed lets you pick up unexpected kills against faster targets (pretty much everything), most important imo being Xerneas. The mind game of the first turn out against a Xerneas where it's a 50/50 whether they'l Moonblast or Geomancy is a common occurrence and I haven't found the best solution for that yet. Of all the members of this team, I'd say it has the most significant matchup reliance factor and as a result possesses a very low floor and high ceiling for the progress it can force in a game.
Marshadow:
CB Marshadow is the offensive glue that holds all my teams together. Low Kick > Close Combat because of the higher PP count, lack of defense drops, and the fact that the amount of targets below the 120 base power weight threshold is tiny (pretty much limited to like, chansey which is the singular case where I'll concede that CC is more optimal, a non-uber that has maybe 10% usage). Banded Low Kick does ~55-65% to bulk uninvested Primal Groudon and 90-100% to uninvested Primal Kyogre. If you can win the tera mind game with EKiller Arceus, then Low Kick is an ohko and Spectral Thief does 82-97% if it terastalizes ghost. Stone Edge over Rock Tomb is another change I made earlier today and haven't had time to test the effectiveness of. 10 more BP (after Technician) for -15% accuracy is awful, but having a better chance to OHKO Yveltal and Ho-Oh is valuable enough to make it worth considering. The argument of Poltergeist over Spectral Thief is also valid. I don't find myself stealing boosts with it terribly often, but it's often enough that I think that Poltergeist isn't worth running over it (lowered accuracy also being a significant reason). Tera Ghost lets you pick up KOs where you wouldn't be able to otherwise (Shadow Sneak turns into KO on Kyogre from 60%, max HP Xerneas at 40%, and no bulk Zacian at 50). Marshadow is usually the mid-game wallbreaker and/or late game cleaner, and it's very good at this job.
Choice Band is inflexible in a way that's very very constrictive to how Marshadow plays, but I think that the benefit of better damage + not taking Life Orb chip is worth it. It also lets you bluff Focus Sash but honestly, bluffing sash might be to the team's detriment now that I think about it. It's very unclear if it's effective during a battle. If Marshadow picks up a KO (that doesn't make it immediately obvious if it's banded) and they send in Xerneas, it's a 50/50 whether they'll Geomancy or Moonblast. I think Life Orb would turn Geomancy from a weird read into an unlikely hard read. Marshadium Z or Fightinium Z might be good too. Food for thought.
Primal Groudon:
It's the best thing in the tier. Far and away. I went through a period of not using it on offense/HO because its bad speed turned me away, but how wrong I was about that. Heat Crash in sun is amazing. Against (neutral types of) Arceus, it's functionally as powerful as Precipice Blades but with 100 accuracy (80 BP boosted by sun = 120). It does amazing damage to neutral and even resisted targets. Some calcs: 79-93% to 252hp Xerneas, 53-63% to neutral type 252hp forms of Arceus, OHKOs Lunala if it's taken any chip damage, guaranteed OHKO on Zacian-Crowned and Marshadow, 39-45% on max def + HP Ho-Oh, guaranteed OHKO on -def nature Yveltal and is still a guaranteed 2hko if it has max hp + defense and a boosting nature. Fire Punch is a noob trap, Heat Crash is far and away better. Precipice Blades does big numbers because it's a 120bp stab move attached to something with 180 base attack. The argument for earthquake over it is valid (when you factor in accuracy, the expected base power of the move before STAB is 102 compared to EQ's 100), but hitting better damage thresholds on Xerneas and Kyogre makes it worth it to me. Stone Edge is almost exclusively for Ho-Oh but it also chunks Mega Salamence and Rayquaza and is your only way to hit the occasional Giratina-O. I don't find myself clicking Swords Dance often. Bulk Up or Rock Polish might be better. The 76 speed EVs are to outspeed uninvested Xerneas. It also is just a decent speed creep number, allowing it to outspeed a surprising amount of enemy primals I encounter. 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades is love, 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades is life.
Arceus-Dark:
Before today, this was a Judgement/Earth Power/Calm Mind/Recover Arceus-Fairy (same EV spread and nature though). I switched it out because that wasn't doing enough damage and I wanted a dark resistance that didn't freely allow so many switches. I'm happy with Darkceus so far, but it has its issues. Foul Play being its only direct damage source isn't amazing. Ho-Oh sits on you for days, it's prone to getting hit with Toxic, and it doesn't do enough to most of the special attackers in the tier (except mega mewtwo y which has 150 base attack and 70 base defense lmao). However, the damage it does to P-Groudon, Necrozma, EKiller, Marshadow, and even Zacian makes up for it. Will-o-Wisp is for opposing Zacians, Zygardes, Arceus forms, Marshadows, Salamences, Necrozmas, et cetera. Taunt is mainly for hazard leads (I was tired of losing to smeargle), stall teams, Xerneas, and Ho-Oh. Both this team and the one I made beforehand are rather weak to offensive Yveltal and this Arceus set was made with winning that 1v1 in mind, but it doesn't do that a lot of the time. If Life Orb damage proc'd before Oblivion Wing healing, it'd be a completely different story but in the few 1v1 scenarios I've tested, L.O. Oblivion Wing can outdamage and out-heal Darkceus. It's still very very good as a defensive piece, but if anyone has suggestions for a possibly better choice then that would be appreciated (dark resist is mandatory). Overall, it's great for how it can ruin or just straight up ohko physical setup sweepers, namely EKiller and Ultra Necrozma. Tera Ghost is for the fighting immunity, which comes in handy against Zacian and Marshadow (most Zacian don't run Play Rough from my experience).
Primal Kyogre:
Compared to the previous version of this team, I swapped out Arceus-Fairy and Toxic Spikes Eternatus for Arceus-Dark and P-Kyogre. One significant weakness with that version of the team is the lack of good special attacking power, making it weaker into opposing Zygarde, Arceus-Ground, and even Primal Groudon. I decided to remedy that by adding special attacking power: the Pokemon. Kyogre does Kyogre things: clicking your 110 BP move boosted by rain and STAB, using boltbeam for the things that that attack can't hit, and clicking Calm Mind on the switches it forces. I usually find myself keeping it in the back until lategame, when it can ideally tank one or two powerful attacks and clean up (From full, it can survive +2 252 adamant life orb EKiller Extreme Speed, +2 252 modest Xerneas moonblast/thunderbolt, or +1 252 adamant Ultra Necrozma Outrage or Photon Geyser). I have the least to say about Kyogre because what it does is fairly clear and I also have the least amount of experience using it. Lorb Yveltal is also a contender for that last team slot as a strong special attacker, but I prefer Kyogre's bulk.
Those are all the team members and their roles explained. Overall, I think it's a good team and does very well into opposing balance, but it still has its flaws.
Weaknesses:
Like I mentioned before, offensive Yveltal is an issue. Kyogre, Ho-Oh and Arceus are the only things that take Dark Pulse well, but the latter two being so slow makes them prone to getting flinched. Ho-Oh and Arceus struggle to out-damage it. Marshadow is the best thing at dispatching Yveltal (if it's taken any damage from attacks or its own life orb), but actually switching it in is the hard part. I need more experience with the team to say more about the matchup, but offensive Yveltal usually gets at least one kill.
Toxic Spikes are hypothetically an issue, but I almost never see them and haven't encountered them at all since testing this version of the team.
Special and physical variants of Arceus-Ground are issues. They can usually come in for free and set up Calm Mind or Dragon Dance. Zygarde kinda stops the Dragon Dance variants and Marshadow the Calm Mind boosting ones but it's not obvious which one is which from team preview or from when they switch it in on Groudon. From experience, it's about 50/50 if the special variant runs Ice Beam or Power Gem as their coverage move.
It's a very very rare sight but this team doesn't have a good TR Calyrex-Ice matchup. Only one ice resistance, but that one resistance is weak to Seed Bomb. Weakness Policy Necrozma-Dusk Mane has the chance to wreak havoc in Trick Room but I don't see that too often either. Haven't actually encountered either of these on ladder, so they're indeterminate but hypothetically bad matchups.
There isn't really a good counterlead to Deoxys-Speed. One of them running Psycho Boost, Taunt, Spikes, and Stealth Rocks has the chance to taunt, set up hazards and/or do a lot of damage to everything on the team. Ho-Oh is probably the best for this job but it still has its flaws. Against 252 hp Deo-S with no other bulk, Sacred Fire has a 93% chance to 2hko, and they almost always just taunt turn 1. If they set up hazards turn 1 and then taunt and get KO'd turn 2, then you're pretty much forced to switch out from whatever they bring in and will have to defog away hazards later.
Band Marshadow is worse against stall/defensive teams than if it ran Life Orb.
If Marshadow is dead, then +2 EKiller has the chance to just wipe the entire team. I don't know the fraction of them that run tera normal vs. tera ghost but Zygarde, Darkceus and Marshadow are the only things that can survive +2 tera normal Silk Scarf Extreme Speed from full (and I don't consider Darkceus a reliable lategame answer because it will almost never be at full in a late game scenario because it has to switch into so much).
Notes:
If scarf Ditto transforms into Kyogre, Groudon, Ho-Oh, or Zygarde, then it's not fast whatsoever. Scarf Ditto transformed into any of them will be significantly slower than Marshadow and Arceus. I'm just adding this here because it took me too long to realize this and I definitely made a lot of misplays just operating under the incorrect assumption that scarf Ditto would outspeed everything.
For anyone reading that's uninformed, the Primals cannot Terastalize in the tier. I think when they could, the most common type for both was just flying and the mind games with terastalizing flying to be immune to Precipice Blades were just pretty boring. Either way, the tera types for those two in the image aren't relevant.
I've lost some embarrassing games with this team, it's nowhere near foolproof. Against teams with better longevity, it can be very dependent on winning reads, especially with Marshadow and Groudon.
ND Ubers low ladder is hell, and if you start laddering from scratch then you'll encounter so many terrible gimmick teams that happen to have the right tools to beat you. Try not to get demotivated, it happens to pretty much everyone. Against all of the stupid Basculegion teams you'll find, just keep Darkceus and Groudon healthy for the very end and they won't be able to do anything.
If you haven't used Power Construct Zygarde before: you have to be below 50% hp **at the very end of the turn** for the form change to proc. If an attack brings you down to 40% and you rest, then you won't switch forms. Learned this the hard way.
About EV spreads: Most of the numbers there are ones I just came up with in the teambuilder and thought felt nice. 248 hp on Ho-Oh is to minimize poison damage, 248 attack on Marshadow is because 252 evs in attack results in an odd number and a wasted stat point after applying the Choice Band boost, and 248 hp on Kyogre is to minimize hazard/status damage. Some people say that these incredibly minor adjustments are a waste of time, but countless games have been won or lost based on 1hp increments and the amount of thought/effort required to do these slight optimizations is preferable to the idea of losing a game because of it.
As mentioned before, the original version of this team was the same first four but with Arceus-Fairy and Eternatus instead of Darkceus and Kyogre, built with a friend who's a st*ll player. Arceus-Fairy was 252 HP 4 Def 252+ Spd Judgement/Earth Power/Calm Mind/Recover and Eternatus was the same EV spread and nature but with Toxic Spikes, Recover, and two attacks (originally Sludge Bomb + Dynamax Cannon but then S.B. and Flamethrower). Neither of them did enough damage for my liking, contributing to the problem I mentioned earlier of getting walled by physically defensive mons because the team was lacking special firepower. Also, a major influence on having Arceus-Fairy on the team was the since-banned Koraidon, which doesn't matter anymore. Toxic Spikes fell flat because of how easy it is for Ho-Oh to defog them away and because of the amount of steel and flying types that can switch into Eternatus and threaten it out/set up easily (namely Necrozma-DM, Zacian, Yveltal, and Mega Salamence). Eternatus just wasn't bulky or strong enough for what I wanted to do with it. Kyogre solves the firepower issue and Arceus-Dark mostly consolidates both of Eternatus and Arceus-Fairy's roles as a defensive switch and hazard spreader.
This was fun to write. Ended up being about as long as the essays I've had to write for college writing class. If you decide to use this team, I hope you have fun. ND Ubers is a great tier and I wish more people played it so the ladder would be more active. From my experience, low ladder is hell and high ladder is incredibly centralized. Mid ladder (around 1500-1700) is where I found the best blend of competitiveness and ability to win with creative teams. It's still a great format and I hope more players are able to make it to the upper echelons of the ladder with underutilized good Ubers like Calyrex-Ice, Lunala, and Zekrom that I barely see on high ladder. Thank you for reading.
ND Ubers Viability Rankings:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ability-rankings-update-3-at-post-89.3712169/
[/ISPOILER]
in the game is diffucult enough.
Webs HO RMT
STag + Swordfish + Arc-Grass compression
Arc-Grass + Mega Lopunny Weirdness
Arc-Fairy + Skarmory Stall
3 Mons below B on the VR
Broken
(click for paste)
It is reasonably managable, but it can threaten to break some big holes or potentially sweep. It really depends on the specific set and gamestate. Zygarde can glare and live any +3 hit from full. At this point Giratina-O should be able to revenge it with Hex. Primal Groudon deals with non TB Ground sets. The sets the team runs into the biggest issues with are bad ones, but ladder is ladder. Really the only mon that Zacian-C enters for free on is Arceus-Dark. Even then tanking a judgement puts it in range of Hex.
Applies to most Arceus formes but really any Arceus forme faster than Arceus-Dark with Taunt is annoying. As shown in one of the replays Eternatus can get past faster utility sets. Never ran into a faster CM set but I'd imagine that probably isn't great to deal with. It really depends on the actual set and the team that it is on. It isn't a 6-0 or anything but depending on the set and gamestate it can probably sweep fairly easily.
Never ran into this but I doubt the team handles Spore sets particularly well. Nuzzle is fine.
