Resource National Dex Viability Rankings v2

[Zobirisking]

Mega Swampert definetly deserves to rise up to A or at least A- for a few reasons.

• Since it is available in pokemon Sword and Shield with the second DLC, the Crown of Tundra, this Pokemon got a solid Set up move with Bulk up, a better water type move with Liquidation, and Flip turn, which means that it is able to pivot out and bringing in the best pokemon against the opponent and often get a free kill.

• Mega Swampert with rain support (which it will mostly have) defeats the most Pokemons that are called broken or at least suspect test worthy like Magearna, Spectrier, Blissey and Cinderace with it's very powerful Stab moves. Not many Pokemons are able to do that.

• Swampert is not the only Pokemon that got better. Zaptos also got a few good moves like Weather Ball and Hyricane. That is very good for Swampert too, because they are mostly used on Rain and it has less to worry about Rillaboom, Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Kartana, Corvigknight and Slowbro, which pressures Swampert a lot.

 

[Zneon]

I disagree with Mega Swampert rising for a few reasons. First of all rain hasn't really improved since the last VR update we've done, it hasn't gotten worse but it hasn't gotten better either, and Mega Swampert's viability is exclusively tied to rain right now, there's a defensive set that people have been talking about but until that sees good results and high usage I don't think Mega Swampert will rise anytime soon.

Outside of that, you don't really specify why Mega Swampert should be worth rising outside of things that we already know about it; Liquidation being better than Waterfall is false, the increase in 5 BP doesn't do anything noteworthy and Waterfall's ability to flinch is much more impactful compared to Liquidation's chance of a defense drop. Mega Swampert being great on rain and revenge killing stuff like Cinderace and Magearna is good, that's why it's B+ after all, but any trends to make it worth rising? I don't think Mega Swampert is really worth rising to B+ rank in the meta as it currently stands but it could in the future if rain becomes more common / gets better.

 

[rinlo]

wait isn’t this nat dex OU how is reuniclus an RUBL mon in A-?(i haven’t really used him but eh im gonna)

also hi! this is my first reply to anything (kris banned me from nat dex i hope i’m not blacklisted)(also idk what to do pls tell me if i’m doing anything wrong)

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

wait isn’t this nat dex OU how is reuniclus an RUBL mon in A-?(i haven’t really used him but eh im gonna)

also hi! this is my first reply to anything (kris banned me from nat dex i hope i’m not blacklisted)(also idk what to do pls tell me if i’m doing anything wrong)

Usage =/= Viability

This is true for every metagame like in gen 7 UU u saw nidoqueen more than nidoking or florges more than sylveon. Sometimes you saw Hydreigon which is UU in gen 7 OU

 

[Jordy]

The VR could use some changes in my opinion. Offense is stronger than its ever been, being perhaps even the strongest archetype right now, but the current rankings don't really seem to reflect that well. Most of the nominations I'm making will be reflecting that.

Landorus-T should rise to S. It is the Pokemon that holds together 9/10 teams; it can soft check many prominent threats and can fill a lot of roles that need to be filled, such as Ground and Electric immune. With the rise of offensive teams, we've also seen a rise in defensive Landorus-T, which is a decent Stealth Rock setter, can soft check many of the natural threats to offense teams, and doesn't easily let up momentum thanks to U-turn and an immunity to Volt Switch. Swords Dance sets are also very strong right now and Choice Scarf sets are perhaps the most splashable speed control in the tier. Most of this was already known, but Landorus-T has only become easier and more valuable to fit and it seems like a pretty obvious contender for S rank to me.

Mega Lopunny has gotten better with recent trends and should definitely rise to A. It sports a myriad of traits that are really valuable right now. To start, its matchup against hyper offensive and general offense teams is simply incredible; they will always have a tough time beating it thanks to the combination of Fake Out, its high Speed tier, and an immunity to Intimidate. Mega Lopunny also keeps Cinderace in check. There's honestly not much more to it; Mega Lopunny is just one of the best Speed control options available.

Victini is a Pokemon that has recently seen more exploration because of its strong defensive typing, being a perfect check to Magearna, and its access to Final Gambit, which is almost always a guaranteed kill and ultimately a big piece in what makes hyper offensive teams so strong right.

For similar reasons to Victini, Jirachi should definitely rise too. Its defensive typing is quite strong; it's a good check to Magearna and Tapu Lele, and Healing Wish is highly valuable for offense teams. Getting 2 chances with your Mega Mawile, Magearna, or Kartana can often drastically shift the game into your favor. Both Victini and Jirachi should rise to A-.

In my opinion, Blissey and Slowbro should move down to A+. They are absolutely still excellent Pokemon, but they definitely struggle to keep up with the more offensive direction of the metagame. Teams featuring these Pokemon generally suffer from poor Speed control and are easily overwhelmed by Pokemon like Mega Mawile, Garchomp, Calm Mind + Pain Split Magearna, and Kartana, just to name a few examples. With the direction that the metagame is currently at, I do not think that you can really argue they still qualify as S rank staples.

These shouldn't be considered official nominations, as I do not have any replays to support them, but there's a couple Pokemon that certaintly deserve to be ranked. Zeraora should be ranked because it's pretty decent Speed control; being faster than Mega Lopunny, Ash-Greninja, and Cinderace is very strong, and it brings some other utility to the table with Knock Off and Volt Absorb. Slowking should be ranked because it has a couple very useful traits over Slowbro. Most notably, it can fill the slot a bulky Steel-type usually would; it can function perfectly fine as a switch-in to Pokemon like Tapu Lele. The fact that it's better at checking Heatran than Slowbro is, is also very useful. The main downside to using Slowking is the Mega Lopunny matchup and the fact that it is actually liable to being Pursuit trapped. You can definitely work around the former with proper teambuilding, whereas the latter is a more notable issue. Quagsire should for sure be ranked as it is one of the best checks to double dance Magearna on stall; Haze Quagsire will always beat it. It also helps against some other Pokemon like Cinderace and Garchomp. Lastly, Shuckle and maybe Ribombee should be ranked too because Sticky Web is the ultimate counterteam to other hyper offense teams.

 

[Avery]

Hi all, while I do agree with the nominations Jordy has made, I feel that he left out a Pokemon that is, in my opinion, due for a rise.

I think Hawlucha definitely deserves to rise up a rank to B. It is the single most valuable asset for any offensive team to have against opposing offense, as so much of the current meta has become offense on offense wars. Also, Hawlucha takes advantage of the ubiquity of current Landorus-T sets quite heavily. Most defensive Landorus-T's that are seen on offense are near max Defense, with some variation of Earthquake / Toxic / U-turn / Stealth Rock. Substitute Hawlucha obviously sets up all over this. In addition, with Speed control options a bit lacking in the current metagame, you are able to invest quite a bit in bulk while still outspeeding the entire metagame after Unburden is activated.

I also agree on the fact Slowking deserves to be ranked, likely at C or B-. Futureport is as strong as ever in enabling offensive threats like Mega Lopunny, Cinderace, and Choice Specs Magearna. Defensively checking Heatran without being forced into Shed Shell Toxapex + Landorus-T or Fire resist Garchomp while still retaining momentum is invaluable for newer variations of bulky offense. Checking Tapu Lele is also incredibly helpful, with Slowking acting as the "fake steel" that it has been dubbed recently. Though, as Jordy mentioned, it is much more vulnerable to being Pursuit trapped, I feel like that is an issue that, to an extent, can be remedied through smart play and well timed use of Teleport. I used it in my Seasonal game here, and I think some variation of the following spreads is ideal, depending on what your team needs.

spreads

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Slack Off
- Teleport

This one above takes 2 Frustrations from Mega Lopunny

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Slack Off
- Teleport

This takes 2 Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblasts

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Slack Off
- Teleport

This one I find less useful, because I feel like you are going to find the other two spreads more useful 99 times out of 100, but this takes a +3 Manaphy Energy Ball, however this does exist if you find it useful somehow.

As an added note, all of these spreads can Teleport out on Pursuit while taking roughly half.

Thanks for reading and take care.

 

[Jordy]

Hey everyone! National Dex World Cup is coming up, so we figured now was a good time to do a VR update. The votes can be found here.

Rises:
Landorus-T from A to S
Garchomp from A to A+
Kartana from A- to A
Mega Lopunny from A- to A
Excadrill from B+ to A-
Rillaboom from B+ to A-
Victini from B+ to A-
Jirachi from B to A-
Mega Garchomp from B- to B
Mega Gyarados from B- to B
Hawlucha from B- to B
Slowking from UR to B-
Zeraora from UR to B-
Quagsire from UR to C
Shuckle from UR to C

Drops:
Blissey from S to A+
Mega Latias from S to A+
Slowbro from S to A+
Mega Tyranitar from A+ to A
Hydreigon from A- to B+
Reuniclus from A- to B+
Tangrowth from A- to B+
Hippowdon from B+ to B
Ditto from B to B-
Mega Latios from B to B-
Mantine from B- to C
Rotom-H from B- to UR
Grimmsnarl from C to UR
Seismitoad from C to UR

Jirachi has been seeing more and more usage on offensive teams. Its combination of defensive utility, Trick, Healing Wish, and Iron Head flinches makes it very potent on such teams. Being able to check Magearna and Tapu Lele temporarily, while being able to bring back a wallbreaker / sweeper is incredibly valuable.


After being outshined by Slowbro for a long time, Slowking has finally been able to solidify some sort of niche for itself. It's a viable alternative to Slowbro as a Future Sight + Teleport user if you're looking to check Tapu Lele and Magearna rather than Pokemon like Mega Medicham. It's unfortunately much more liable to being Pursuit trapped and is for sure worse than Slowbro overall, but that doesn't hold it back from being ranked.


Ever since, Rotom-H has really struggled to define a niche for itself. It's a mediocre check to Magearna, Mega Mawile, Mega Scizor, etc. and doesn't accomplish much in this metagame. It's being unranked.

 

[Victini4ssbu]

Mega Swampert to A- or A
Pelipper to A- or A
So starting off with mega swampert, Mega Swamp has defined itself as a premier offense killer under rain due to it's monsterous attack and crazy speed in rain. It is also a reliable check to unboosted mage and ace because they are both equake weak which mega swampert threatens an ohko to them. It can also work outside of rain but it is MUCH worse as an overall mon.
Then for pelipper, it is the only good rain maker in nat dex ou, so it is the reason mega swampert and manaphy have a decently big role in the metagame and it also makes zapdos, ash gren, and ferro better because they can fit on a major style of team in rain.
Note: These are not the best opinions cuz I'm not very good.
Edit: I know mana isn't worthy of it, it was just a thought at the time, but keep it in B+, also credit the discord for changing my mind for them not to be in A+.

 

[BitBitio]

Mega Swampert to A or A+
Pelipper to A or A+
Manaphy to A-
So starting off with mega swampert, Mega Swamp has defined itself as a premier offense killer under rain due to it's monsterous attack and crazy speed in rain. It is also a reliable check to unboosted mage and ace because they are both equake weak which mega swampert threatens an ohko to them. It can also work outside of rain but it is MUCH worse as an overall mon.
Then for pelipper, it is the only good rain maker in nat dex ou, so it is the reason mega swampert and manaphy have a decently big role in the metagame and it also makes zapdos, ash gren, and ferro better because they can fit on a major style of team in rain.
Then Manaphy, manaphy is what lets rain teams handle stall, this is because mega swamp can't do all that much too stall, zapdos just lacks the power, and gren is choice restricted, so that leaves manaphy who has tail glow and hydration rest which lets it freely set up against stall and sweep, it also gets an extra power boost from waterium z.

I agree with a rise for rain, but I don’t think that putting Swampert and Pelipper on the level of the majorly splashable and excellent choices in A and A+ makes any sense. Heatran, Gliscor, and Slowbro are all way easier to put onto a team and make the team better for it. I don’t think that such a large rise makes any sense simply because they aren’t that amazing. Something more like A- seems appropriate.
Edit: but for the record, in this heavily offensive meta, rain really does seem to thrive and is kinda super anti-meta for it. Just sayin. Rain to A-

 

[NuttyRabbit]

Nominating Grimmsnarl to C Rank

I'm honestly baffled as to why it got UR in the first place, seeing as Screens are still quite viable (if not optimal) in the current metagame, matching up well not only against the common BOs and Balances that are so present in the meta right now, but even against other HO archetypes like Hazard stack, Webs, and Rain. Screens teams have a level of flexibility in terms of team choice that those other archetypes do not possess, being able to exchange immediate wallbreaking power in some instances (such as your RIllabooms and Cinderaces) for slower, but snowballier setup sweepers like Kommo-o and Mega Tyranitar (which is an absolute demon by the way but I digress), or even facilitating easier sweeps for staples like Mega Gyarados, and Magearna.

Of course, we're not ranking playstyles here, but Pokemon, and as such, I've elected to nominate what I feel to be the best screens setter on the archetype: Grimmsnarl. Grimmsnarl's positive qualities in regards to screens may seem obvious on the surface: Prankster Screens ensure it can get up screens quickly and reliably. However, one could argue that something like Regieleki or Tapu Koko could also get up Screens quickly and unlike Grimmsnarl, they can pivot out reliably, so why not use them?

That's where Grimmsnarl's other unique qualities come in. To start, Grimmsnarl's 95/65/75 bulk gives it respectable bulk, especially behind Screens, and that, coupled with a decent defensive typing in Dark/Fairy, ensures that it can stick around for quite a bit longer than the other two setters, and this, combined with Prankster Screens, ensures that it can set screens multiple times per match, which is a huge boon for the archetype, especially if it goes up against a fatter builds. But this defensive utility doesn't just let it set up screens multiple times per match, but lets it do so reliably in the face of Pokemon that otherwise pose major threats to hyper offense, such as Mega Lopunny, Ash Greninja, Rillaboom, and Cinderace. In fact, I would argue that Grimmsnarl's ability to take on Mega Lopunny alone grants it a niche on HO teams, since it can set up in its face and threaten with back with Spirit Break.

However, that isn't all that makes Grimmsnarl the best screener. Prankster Taunt is, to put it bluntly, fucking awesome, letting it not only shut down other HO leads like Mew, but also stopping Defog and fat mons in general, which both preserves momentum and guarantees setup opportunities. That being said, there is a rather major flaw with Grimmsnarl as a screens lead compared to the other two I've mentioned: the inability to gain momentum. Eleki can Volt Switch and Koko can both Volt Switch and U-turn, so how does Grimmsnarl make up for it? Flexibility.

See, the most common Grimmsnarl set would look something like this



Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Spirit Break

Spirit Break is the most common last move since it's a nice solid STAB that not only hits stuff like the aforementioned Mega Lopunny and Greninja, but also stuff like Latis. In addition, the ability to guarantee a SpA drop only further increases the setup opportunities it can grant its teammates.

However, Grimmsnarl has a pretty sizable movepool, and as such, you can easily tailor that 4th move to better suit your team. Darkest Lariat is an option for an alternate STAB, Fire Punch/Drain Punch/Superpower/Low Kick can mess up Steels, Thunder Wave is another utility option, Play Rough gives a stronger STAB, Ice Punch just C-teams Grounds, T-punch can snipe Tapu Fini looking to come in on you, and even Foul Play is an option to punish opposing setup sweepers. The best part is, all of these attacks come off of a solid base 120 Attack (except Foul Play).

These options are ones that the other setters either do not have access to or do not have room for, yet Grimmsnarl does, giving it a degree of flexibility and unpredictability that more than makes up for its inability to pivot.

That's not even getting into the EV spreads, which can be tailored to do anything from being physically bulky to specially bulky to even creeping and guaranteeing 2HKOs/OHKOs on certain targets, which again, is not a level of flexibility you have with the other setters (or other HO leads in general, not without giving up a lot of utility).

So as is the rules for these sorts of nominations, I do have a couple of replays to show, though I must warn you one of them is a bit old (albeit it still demonstrates the capabilities of Grimmsnarl and Screens in general



https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1276957325-kmlf67ojllgee9i0ama3umusjl6fe4apw (Perfectly demonstrates Grimmsnarl's excellent Mega Lopunny matchup and Screens' MU vs Bulky Offense)


https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1226566812-kdtabyf5ff0134sk40fjblfc8feth1ppw (A bit old, but demonstrates how Grimmsnarl can reliably set screens in front of an otherwise threatening Rillaboom and facilitate a Kommo-o and Mega Gyara sweep. Also demonstrates how Screens can beat bulkier Balance teams)


That being said, Grimmsnarl is far from perfect. As I said before, its inability to pivot can make it a slight momentum drain and leave it a sitting duck for certain Pokemon. It also makes it quite prone to trapping from the likes of Heatran if one isn't careful. In addition, Grimmsnarl is really only viable as a screens setter, and Screens itself is a niche, though viable playstyle. However, given that Screens is viable and that Grimmsnarl is its best setter, I think that more than justifies it being ranked at C, alongside the likes of fellow HO lead Shuckle.

 

[Victini4ssbu]

I am probably the only person who is at least as good as I am but, Heatran to A-.
I am only going to be talking about the specially defensive set because the rest of them deserve to be where I saw also.
1. So the one of the reasons I think it should be in A- or maybe B+ if the metagame shifts in ways that make heatran less viable is because it relies of leftovers recovery which does not help it stay healthy throughout a game which blissey and other mons can easily do. So say heatran takes like 75% from a move, so it really can't be used unlike other defensive mons who have auto recovery like bliss again or regenarator mons that don't need auto recovery.
2. Trapping is actually pretty hard for tran as far as I'm concerned because against good players it struggles to trap mons that it actually wants to because it's often just trapping the opposing teams counter or check so the tran is forced out and stop the trap which is not ideal in any way whats so ever. You may say "But just toxic their switch in", that is a good point but relying on a prediction to make use out of time out is not good with no auto recovery and relying on leftovers or the rare wish.
3. The rain matchup is really bad for tran in different ways. The main problem is that it just kind of dies to a water move or swamp equake, but on the topic of equake, it hates the lando t matchup and since lando t is the most used mons at 26.82616% on ladder, things are not looking to good for tran. So back to rain, the most it can really do against rain is serve as a sack to stall rain turns or as a switch-in to zapdos but that just gives the oppenent momentum with volt switch so that is not that good and if that's your only uses against one of the most popular styles, there's a problem.

 

[Optify]

I am probably the only person who is at least as good as I am but, Heatran to A-.
I am only going to be talking about the specially defensive set because the rest of them deserve to be where I saw also.
1. So the one of the reasons I think it should be in A- or maybe B+ if the metagame shifts in ways that make heatran less viable is because it relies of leftovers recovery which does not help it stay healthy throughout a game which blissey and other mons can easily do. So say heatran takes like 75% from a move, so it really can't be used unlike other defensive mons who have auto recovery like bliss again or regenarator mons that don't need auto recovery.
2. Trapping is actually pretty hard for tran as far as I'm concerned because against good players it struggles to trap mons that it actually wants to because it's often just trapping the opposing teams counter or check so the tran is forced out and stop the trap which is not ideal in any way whats so ever. You may say "But just toxic their switch in", that is a good point but relying on a prediction to make use out of time out is not good with no auto recovery and relying on leftovers or the rare wish.
3. The rain matchup is really bad for tran in different ways. The main problem is that it just kind of dies to a water move or swamp equake, but on the topic of equake, it hates the lando t matchup and since lando t is the most used mons at 26.82616% on ladder, things are not looking to good for tran. So back to rain, the most it can really do against rain is serve as a sack to stall rain turns or as a switch-in to zapdos but that just gives the oppenent momentum with volt switch so that is not that good and if that's your only uses against one of the most popular styles, there's a problem.

I disagree, and now i'm going to explain why.

leftovers recovery is just fine for heatran, 6% each turn makes a very large difference. Also ftr no one is gonna let their tran take 75% from a move.

As for point 2, you shouldn't be throwing your tran out early game, it's best saved to the late game when the check is weakened / removed

Rain isn't very prevalent in the meta outside of ladder / room tours, so I don't think it makes that large of a difference, and lando-t is most definitely not a heatran switch-in, as it takes well over 60 from offensive heatran, therefore not letting it switch in more then once

 

[astralydia]

Aight since this has been mentioned enough, I feel like I should give some of my thoughts on the current VR nominations.

-> B
-> B
-> B

I'm gonna be real with everyone for a moment. When was the last time you saw Rain being used in a tournament game? At the moment, rain currently has a lot to fight for. Between bulky offense structures carrying tons of Slowbro for Cinderace, Ferrothorn rising in usage due to bulky offense structures becoming more viable, Dragon types being on the rise like Mega Latios and Kommo-o, Tapu Koko becoming more viable in general, the increased usage of Hyper Offense, and subsequently Rillaboom, and more adaptations like Slowking becoming common knowledge generally makes Rain quite a difficult playstyle to make work in the current metagame. Even Slowbro Sand has been seeing occasional use in tournament games, making it exceptionally difficult for rain to abuse its own weather for long periods of time, almost exclusively relying on Manaphy to be able to deal some damage to cores. The current metagame state simply does not favour rain at all, with bulky offense often carrying 2-3 water resists as a result of Cinderace demanding answers, and AshGren still being easily checked in the builder. I do believe Mega Swampert is less bad than the other two, due to a very nice defensive set that it can use, however, I still believe that it suffers from longevity issues and often times is just eclipsed by Lando in usefulness.

-> A

Contrarily, I feel like AshGren has gotten significantly better in recent times. The shift to bulky offense generally favours AshGren's speed and its ability to pressure its defensive cores throughout the game. Between a significant drop in Blissey usage, general increase in Ground-type usage for Greninja to prey on, and a slight drop in HDB pivot usage, Greninja has not only gotten better with its flagship Spikes as last, but has gotten better with pivoting options too as those Pokemon are much more effected by VoltTurn in the current metagame.

-> B

Whilst Slowking is not as good at answering Cinderace, it is considerably better at pivoting into Heatran and certain Psychic types like Tapu Lele to the point where I do believe it has started becoming better than Slowbro in some teamcomps. Couple this with the increase in defensive Landorus sets, and you get the spot that Slowking works best with - a solid Water resist that can check Cinderace in a pinch but is also capable of checking Heatran considerably better, and is considerably better at pivoting around threats like Kyurem and Greninja in a pinch.

-> B

I actually think Serperior is quite underrated in the current metagame. Although Flying types like Corviknight and Zapdos have been trending upward, neither of these are particularly excellent checks to Serperior (unless Zapdos is Flyinium Z), and to make matters worse for Corviknight, it is actively opened up to any Ground type partners that Serperior may have due to Glare. And although it does miss out on the sweet speed tier that Cinderace occupies, it still makes for a fitting partner due to how easily it forces out Cinderace's checks, like the Slowbrothers and Toxapex. Whilst it is difficult to fit, I definitely feel like B- is understating its effectiveness at the moment, and it should move up.

 

[peap]

I tentatively support Chazm's above nomination of -> B.

Slowking is a plenty resilient pivot on the special side, and actually beating Magma Heatran and pivoting on Mag/Lele while sharing many of Slowbro's traits is definitely valued on some team structures. As people have mentioned, it's held back by Pursuit in Natdex compared to SS OU (where it recently rose to A). As a pivot that can be trapped and removed more easily by common staples in Tyranitar and Weavile, Slowking has more matchup risk than Slowbro, and needs to run Physical Defense investment. However it's still serviceable as a mixed pivot, I like this best out of Sevelon's spreads:

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Slack Off
- Teleport

Just enough defense to play Teleport mind games with Pursuit users. Avoids an OHKO from 252+ Atk Pursuit from Ttar at full, and Band Weavile Pursuit is a <50% roll to OHKO; of course you usually want to avoid being trapped in the first place, but at least it's not game over if you are.

The remaining EVs are plowed into Special Defense, allowing you to 1v1 Heatran and most notably act as a pivot against Lele + Magearna and powerful Water Types in rain. Slowking could do these jobs better with full SpD investment but that's not viable in a Pursuit meta.

Mixed King Calcs

Physical:
252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Slowking: 330-390 (83.7 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Slowking: 356-422 (90.3 - 107.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 196 Def Slowking: 171-202 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

Special:
252+ SpA Heatran Inferno Overdrive (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Slowking: 127-150 (32.2 - 38%) -- 96.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Slowking in Psychic Terrain: 114-134 (28.9 - 34%) -- 1.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Slowking: 186-219 (47.2 - 55.5%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Slowking in Rain: 181-213 (45.9 - 54%) -- 52.3% chance to 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 60+ SpD Slowking in Rain: 353-416 (89.5 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

There's a theme to the above: Slowking can survive these OHKO/2HKOs, if it is healthy and not chipped, and somewhat lucky with rolls. Splitting the EVs mean that it's a master of none, and requires other teammates' support, while Slowbro can 1v1 more physical attackers on its own. Throughout the game the King will inevitably get worn down and become more vulnerable, so B rank is plenty high for the Slowbro variant.

 

[Jordy]

I've still been playing the metagame a lot and we've seen some pretty interesting trends in NDWC. Here's a couple nominations I've got based on experience and replays.


Mega Diancie is a severely underrated Pokemon and the fact that it's down in C rank is honestly a crime. Mega Diancie is easily 1 of the best Stealth Rock setters, with its positive matchup against common Defoggers like Zapdos and Corviknight; the fact that Corviknight can't really afford Iron Head due to Rillaboom greatly helps it. It is also easily one of the most convincing wallbreakers right now, as it is incredibly solid against many balance cores, particularly Blissey + Slowbro. Mega Diancie just has very few good defensive checks in general and it's really difficult to deal with for almost any team right now. Its stall matchup is honestly kind of crazy too and it can quickly break through those teams if played aggressively. This Pokemon definitely belongs in B, and you could probably make an argument for B+ too. This is a team I've been using with it and I'd really recommend playing with it if you're unsure of this nomination.


Over the past 2 months or so Blissey has really been suffering and I don't believe that its drop to A+ was enough. It should drop further down to A. Nothing has really changed since it moved down to A+; it's still suffering from the prevalence of things like Mega Mawile bulky offense. The teams it fits on simply aren't as strong as they've been in the past and I believe that even A+ is overrating it.


As a result of Blissey's drop in prevalence, Ash-Greninja has been surging more; it no longer sucks up so much of your momentum just by being in. It also benefits a lot of the rise of bulky offense because it's generally very hard for such teams to adequately prepare for it, as the counterplay that tends to fit has very limited longevity. Ash-Greninja should rise to A.

Also, I don't mean to jump the gun, but maybe Slowbro should rise back up to S.

 

[Zobirisking]

I made a lot of battles with Heatran in the last days and weeks and I believe that it deserves the S rank on the viability ranking.

Heatran has a ton of very good sets and I wanna start with the Choise Scarf set, which is this: https://pokepast.es/6da8241669dc2477
This Heatran set is super good. You can surprise your opponent with this, because it isn't used a lot and you often get free kills with that, because there are very less switch ins which doesn't get a 2HKO by Eruption, Magma Storm, Solar Beam, Earth Power or Flash Cannon.
With sun support, it is able to destroy the most hyper offense teams with spaming Eruption if it has full hp. Here are some calcs:

252 SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey in Sun: 283-334 (39.6 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252 SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian in Sun: 442-522 (138.5 - 163.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Heatran Eruption (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna in Sun: 650-768 (215.9 - 255.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This battle is a very good example why this set is underated: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1294447673-btguiqmjxl836k0ntlgv3h66d54sylxpw


The next sets I wanna talk about are the Z move sets, which are these: https://pokepast.es/d710b31525b49c32

These sets are very good too, they hit extremely hard and can break a lot of "Heatran checks" like Tapu Fini, Gliscor, Gastrodon and Hippowdon for example. I made some calcs that can show that very well.

252 SpA Heatran Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 56+ SpD Tapu Fini: 288-340 (83.9 - 99.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Heatran Corkscrew Crash (200 BP) vs. 244 HP / 76 SpD Gliscor: 376-444 (106.8 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Heatran Inferno Overdrive (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 385-454 (91.6 - 108%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Heatran is a Pokemon that can have like 10 or even more sets, it is able to stop a lot of Pokemons incredibly easy with it's great typing and it's great moves and there is no 100% check and counter to this Pokemon, which is why I think it should rise up to the S rank. Thanks for reading :)

 

[Optify]

Hello, I'd like to make a post writing about some pokemon I think are underrated and overrated in the current meta.

-> S tier. It's utility is just so good, thunder wave support for slow breakers such as medicham-mega, choice specs magearna, and to a lesser extent swords dance landorus-therian, calm mind sets function as amazing win-cons on balances and balanced offenses alike, as well as trick-proof sets being decent switchins to specs magearna in conjunction with a ground type and heatran.

-> B tier. Slow breakers are amazing in the meta, especially vs fatter balences, heracross in specific targets latias-mega balances that rely on mons like slowbro and blissey to handle the amount of strong breakers in the tier. Here are some crazy heracross calcs;

+2 252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 164 Def Clefable: 415-490 (105.3 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 499-588 (165.7 - 195.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Heracross-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cinderace: 355-418 (117.9 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

As you can see here, heracross can threaten a lot of the meta through its sheer power. Here is a team that showcases heracross-mega well

-> A tier. Scizor is simply not the mon it used to be, on nearly every team there is something that stonewalls it, being one of toxapex, cinderace, the charizard formes, or heatran. It doesn't even function all that wall as a magearna counter as it is 2hko'd by focus blast after stealth rock damage.

 

[The Dragon Master]

A+->A

Mega latias hasn't been doing so well as of late. It isn't very immediately threatening due to it running no SpA investment, and so it needs some time to set up, and this can be taken advantage of easily. It has pretty severe 4MSS, with it wanting all of Ice Beam, Psyshock, Aura Sphere and sometimes even Thunderbol, reflect type and mystical fire, along with the obligatory Calm Mind and Recover, forgoing Ice Beam means forgoing its ability to act as a check to the grounds in the meta, and it needs Aura Sphere so it's not pursuit trapped with ridiculous ease by Tyranitar and it's Mega form, and forgoing Psyshock means it's unable to threaten Blissey and other special walls, and forgoing mystical fire means its walled by steels not weak to fighting like mega sciz, aegis and gives free entry to mega mawile. Also, it also has a tendency to get inflicted by status, and status, particularly Thunder wave and Toxic utterly ruins Mega Latias, and so it needs Heal Bell support to function at its best, and this is a constriction on team-building. For these Factors, I believe Mega Latias should drop to A rank.

 

[KirbCena]

-> A/A-

Blissey hasn't been doing well lately as a result of many bulky offenses being able to take advantage of its overall passivity despite Teleport as it simply lets in too many important threats for free right now like Mega Mawile and Rillaboom, especially sinde some of what it wants to check pivots on it into the aforementioned threats. The bulky pivot balance/BOs that Blissey fits on just really struggle as a whole because of how many popular wallbreakers can take advantage of them.

->A

This might seem a bit odd to some, but Ace leaving the tier means Slowbro is no longer required on bulky offense in order to keep it at bay, which is made worse by the fact that its main competition in Slowking was already getting better due to the ability to better check dangerous threats like Heatran, Lele, and Magearna. Slowbro still has its own upsides, such as being a better answer to the SD Grounds and Mega Medicham, but it's a bit harder to justify on teams now.

-> A

Mega Latias struggles in the current meta as most teams are either too fast-paced for it to get to setup and sweep or they have solid counterplay to inhibit it. This issue becomes more pronounced when one realizes that Lati also has 4MSS when it comes to the coverage it wants to sweep as well as it being easy to neuter via status.

-> A-

Ace leaving is a huge boon for Tangrowth, as it's no longer a liability as a Phys. Def. pivot that loses to the bunny. Being able to check Rillaboom , Kartana, and the SD Grounds(Especially on FiniTang teams since Misty stops Drag Z attempts from Garchomp) in one slot is great for both balance and BO teams that would otherwise struggle against these threats.

->B+

Similar situation as Tang, but you give up the SD Ground matchup and are slightly worse against Kart and Rilla(due to having to invest in SpD) in exchange for a much better Ash Gren matchup as well as being a decent check to certain Mage variants.

-> B-

This was already a bit hard to justify on a team when Ace was in the tier and Ace leaving makes it even more difficult.

-> B+

See Slowbro

-> C/UR (Mega Latios)

All of its checks and counters are reasonably splashable, if not more splashable on a wide variety of teams than at the time of the last VR update and it continues to have severe 4MSS meaning it usually ends up doing nothing significant. Not worth using and certainly not worth the effort of supporting.

 

[NuttyRabbit]

C > UR: When was the last time anyone actually used this thing in any meaningful capacity? As a rocker it's hideously outclassed by all the other rockers in the tier, as a Dragon Dancer it's horrifically outclassed by the likes of Mega Gyarados and Mega Zard X, and as a setup mon in general it's rarely, if ever worth using over better options like Garchomp (Mega or normal), the aforementioned mons, or really anything else you can think of due to its relatively low power, low bulk, poor typing that opens it up to every bit of relevant priority in the tier, and the worst 4MSS this side of DPP Lucario.

It doesn't deserve to be ranked alongside legitimately viable options in C such as Shuckle, Mega Pinsir, Hoopa, Crawdaunt, and Diancie-Mega, all of whom have legitimate niches in the metagame and can actually fulfill their roles.

Noms I agree with:

> B+ or higher: Preaching to the choir here, but with Ace's ban, this has surpassed its Physdef cousin in viability and become one of the tier's most splashable bulky waters and Heatran/Tapu Lele/Magearna checks.

> A: Ace ban made this thing harder to justify using on most teams. Still checks stuff like Lop and Grounds nicely, but it's far from what it was before.

> B+ : This thing is pretty awesome right now, being able to take on pretty much all the Grasses that got better as a result of the Ace Ban, checking Ash Gren better than the likes of Tang, and serving as a damn good answer to CM Fini, which is lowkey a menace rn.

Other noms I agree with:

> A

> A/A-

> C/UR

 

[Zobirisking]

I believe that Blacephalon deserves to rise up to the C or B- rank and I will show you why.

I am going to start with the Calm Mind Substitute set, which is this: https://pokepast.es/17aa077e7fcc4bd1
This is the most common set of Blacephalon. It is usually used on some Hyper Offense teams as a sweeper. It's very good typing, ability and stats makes it sweeping easily if it has momentum and a little bit support with Stealth Rocks and Sticky Webs. This Replay shows what happens when you aren't carefully:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1311245028-t9wzsagrfs46mg4ksn04fdsu6in6gxnpw

The next and last set I want to talk about is the Choise Scarf set, which is this:
https://pokepast.es/ad936fc8bc401554
I personally like this set more, because it is easier to have success with that and it does need less support. This thing hits incredibly hard with a base stat of 151 in Special Attack and it's very good Stab moves. And everything that can tank it's moves very well like Chansey and Blissey can be tricked and get Blacephalons Choise Scarf, which will make them almost useless. These calcs can show Blacephalons power very well:

252 SpA Blacephalon Mind Blown vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Landorus: 328-387 (102.8 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 356-420 (118.2 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 258-306 (91.8 - 108.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And this Replay shows that it can break stall easily:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1310666538-5x9hw92sjziewny3msdybbig69viurypw

Blacephalon definetly has some problems and it's not amazing, but it's quite good and deserves being on the viability ranking.
Thanks for reading. :)

 

[Solaros & Lunaris]

Nominating Thundurus-T from UR to C

STORM (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Fightinium Z
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast

Thundurus-T has an incredible niche of Sticky Web offenses, as it’s average Speed is suddenly far more threatening when everything is caught in a Speed-lowering net. The set is standard and aims to maximize coverage as well as firepower with Nasty Plot. The item honestly comes down to whether or not the Z-Move is taken—with Fightinium Z, even Chansey frowns at the thought of +2 Thundurus-T. However, Heavy-Duty Boots allow Thundurus-T to take better advantage of its typing and Volt Absorb, which is actually where its other niche comes from. With a Grass resistance and Electric immunity, Thundurus-T is able to provide some buffer against Kartana, Serperior, Zapdos, and Zeraora, who are otherwise quite a nuisance for Webs teams to handle. To demonstrate Thundurus-T’s prowess, Sevelon has gathered several replays that will supplant my argument.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1310870998-spy0rwgwb009fo0ujvn42ihk84psecmpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1310943767-st1mdgbyxrz00c0t0ckuhpd9ugpll43pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1310941669-p9u5arv5ueun1uru3gd72g3ufcfnyjfpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1310940096-tcosm9xddvkdkkdd4ff6hn57mih60txpw

 

[Hematemesis]

Amoonguss -> B+ Agree

> B+ : This thing is pretty awesome right now, being able to take on pretty much all the Grasses that got better as a result of the Ace Ban, checking Ash Gren better than the likes of Tang, and serving as a damn good answer to CM Fini, which is lowkey a menace rn.

Hard agree. I've been recently having a lot of success with Amoonguss, and I would like to nominate it for B+ as well. Here's the set I'll be discussing:

Amoonguss

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 52/100 Def / 156/204 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb/Clear Smog
- Hidden Power [Fire]

One thing that has always given Amoonguss some trouble is it's competition with Mega Venusaur. The Mega has the objectively better base stats, and access to move-based recovery in synthesis, while Amoonguss has regenerator and does not take up the mega slot. While Amoonguss has been considered better in the previous main OU gens that they have been in together, the existence of the other brings each of them down in viability (as, since they provide different things, their usage gets split). I think that Amoonguss has been getting underrated a pretty significant amount. Is it because of this phenomenon? I'm not certain. I have barely run into Mega Venusaur since my return to the tier recently, and Amoonguss seems to be more popular, but I'm surprised when it was placed in B and not B+ or even A- (A- seems like a bit of a stretch for now, but perhaps later).

Something that wasn't mentioned that I find particularly appealing about the pokemon is access to spore. As it stands, Amoonguss is the only pokemon with access to this move with a competitive niche in Natdex, and it's one of only 3 that has access to sleep. I'm a big believer in sleep this generation. Pokémon such as Blissey and Clefable aren't often seen running heal bell on the ladder these days (it's existent, but uncommon). In the current meta, you have a higher chance of sleeping something than not, which is compounded by the fact that Amoonguss is a great answer to most grass types in the tier (MVenu being the notable exception). I think people are sleeping on sleep, and really, what it can do to a team. I think it goes without saying that in this tier, balance is ludicrously viable and in my experience, the most common team format. On a balance team, every mon serves a purpose over the course of the match in most cases (unlike, for example, webs HO, in which you theoretically only need to rely on one sweeper to get the win). As sleep completely negates an opposing pokemon for on average, 2-3 turns, that is huge for the pace of a game, especially against a balance team. For example, being able to put an opposing Toxapex to sleep to open up your Weavile for a few turns, as the Toxapex won't be able to recover stall it out when it can't wake up, can be a game-winning play all by clicking an 100% accurate move (obviously, this is theoretical and exaggerated, but I do think this example illustrates the potential of spore). While Tangrowth has access to sleep as well, the 75% accuracy combined with the lack of a poison type to smile in the face of grass types switching in on your powder move make it less viable on the heaping ball of vines than the mushroom. The two main counters to sleep (or, status in general) are Blissey and Tapu Fini. Blissey, however, has been on a slight decline in my opinion, as the usage of toxic-immune offensive pokemon (namely, Mscizor and MMawile, but there are more) have been steadily increasing, and Tapu Fini, despite having a terrain that prevents spore from being used, loses to Amoonguss in the 1v1 (due to clear smog negating calm mind effects, though I reckon even giga drain can 1v1, but I've never tried it before). Therefore, that was my essay on why sleep is getting better, but allow me to talk about some other cool things Amoonguss does.

For starters, HP fire is quite nice when compared to the 3 quad fire-weak pokemon at the top ranks of the tier. Amoonguss works as a pretty sweet Mega Scizor check, beats down on non psycho-cut Kartana, and switches in on leech seed as well as usually forcing a switch in regards to Ferrothorn. Rillaboom - despite being walled by a fair amount of mons - is quite restrictive in the teambuilder. Grassy glide is the best priority in the game imo, and choice band sets are quite a nuisance in both endgames and wallbreaking situations. However, Amoonguss takes knock off pretty well, and after losing its black sludge, becomes an ever stronger check upon regen recovery. It also eats grass glides for breakfast. Amoonguss also provides a condensed supporting role in the move clear smog (though in my experience, sludge bomb seems to be more popular on the ladder. Perhaps people like the extra damage? I'll look into this more). Clear smog prevents setup like the aforementioned CM Fini consistently, and also blanket checks a bunch of setup across the board. Sludge bomb, of course, is fine for damage if you have a pokemon like unaware clef or another haze user, and have no need for the move or also just no desire, it's personal preference. Something I should mention is that Magearna is usually a safe switch in on this thing. Hidden power fire does about 1/4th to no investment in HP or spdef, and basically begs for a shift gear, calm mind, or ice beam. However, as it has the chance to be banned soon, there's a chance one of Amoonguss' biggest threats could be out of the picture, only increasing its viability.

I hope you at least half-paid attention my long, rambling post on why I like this thing. As usual, please tell me where I'm wrong, and enjoy!

 

[Victini4ssbu]

Hello there! I have two nominations to make
The first nomination I have is Ash-Greninja from A- to A/A+
Ash Greninja has proven itself as a premier threat ever since blissey was dropping because specs ash gren has fantastic power without evolving but then has 607 SpA if it's 252 and no helping nature. Ash gren threatens top metagame threats like Heatran, all slow twins, mega medicham, gliscor, mega ttar, and even if something beats it one-on-one, gren can just get up a layer of spikes on the switch which with 3 layers, can prevent mons like ferro, the rising amoonguss, a weakened pex and the rare av mage. With this in play the only answers are: Bliss but bliss is getting rarer each day, clef which just works, and chansey but chansey only has a role on stall. Then for checks you just have to have something faster that can ohko it like mega lop and rilla.

My second nomination is mega mawile from A+ to S
This thing is so stupid because there are 0 counters that can work every game because mega mawile can actually have moveset variety. You think ferro could work? Nope! Fire fang and even knock off works
Calc: +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 92 Def Ferrothorn: 294-346 (83.5 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Then you just click play rough
Mega Sciz? Fire fang (no need to calc lol, even ohko's with no sd)
Pex? +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 213-251 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
then you just click play rough
Unaware clef?? Iron head
Calc: +2 252+ Atk Huge Power null Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 434-512 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (idk why it says power null but it's 80)
Heatran? 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 190-224 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
There is way you guarantee beat this thing on the switch. Your best bet is to predict the sd and switch in ash gren and ohko the maw with hydro
BUT
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja-Ash: 198-234 (69.4 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So, if this thing sets up an sd, you just have to pray that your team isn't food for the opponents mega mawile moveset.

 

[Batzi]

I'm not going to a drawn out post because I can't really be bothered and I know some people prefer posts short and simple but I'd like to nominate Tapu Bulu for C.

With the addition of Rillaboom, Tapu Bulu has lost its best niche of being a Choice Band breaker who summons GTerrain and hits hard with Wood Hammer. however this is not why I am nominating it. I'm nominating it because it is both an offensive and defensive check to Ash Greninja, Garchomp, non Z Fly Landorus and prevents a Pokemon such as Tapu Fini from setting up. Additionally, it has pretty good breaking possibilities with a Swords Dance set. With Grassy Terrain, it heals the rest of grounded members of your team by 6% each turn which can work well which can even work well on Sand if you don't mind running High Horsepower>Earthquake on Excadrill. Moreover, Grassy Terrain halves Earthquake's power which can be really useful on teams that can be weak to Earthquake spam. In other words, I'm nominating Tapu Bulu because it is a solid role compressor. With the disappearance of Cinderace, it has gotten better too.

Here is a replay from the recent World Cup Grand Final showing Tapu Bulu in its true glory: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1310332322


Also please get rid of Mega Aero from the VRs, that shit garbage