This makes me think of potentially Naughty + Belly Drum + Drain Punch, 68 attack matters little if you have +6 after all. Im gonna go lab that brb
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Metagame Nature Swap
- Thread starter BandedBodyPress
- Start date
So I did the thing that I usually do when first teambuilding in an OM, set a parameter or two in the Showdown builder and then start sorting by stat. Wanted to build a Sun team and use a Chlorophyll mon, so I looked for the single highest stat, which could then be slotted into an offense in Nature Swap.
Leafeon @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball
- Tera Blast
Almost 30 years of playing Pokemon, nearly 15 on Smogon, and I still can't teambuild to save my life. Leafeon has the highest stat out of any Chlorophyll mon with 130 Defense, and is actually the third highest out of any Pokemon with weather-boosted speed, only losing to Barraskewda and Excadrill. Solar Beam is chosen over Energy Ball or Giga Drain since Leafeon relies on sun so much; while a bunch of the Protosynthesis Pokemon can still function outside sun, Leafeon is slow, frail, and is incredibly vulnerable without Weather Ball's coverage. Tera Blast requires even more resource investment in a given game, but it provides better coverage than Alluring Voice, and some real power unlike Mud Shot.
Leafeon @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Tera Type: Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Solar Beam
- Weather Ball
- Tera Blast
Almost 30 years of playing Pokemon, nearly 15 on Smogon, and I still can't teambuild to save my life. Leafeon has the highest stat out of any Chlorophyll mon with 130 Defense, and is actually the third highest out of any Pokemon with weather-boosted speed, only losing to Barraskewda and Excadrill. Solar Beam is chosen over Energy Ball or Giga Drain since Leafeon relies on sun so much; while a bunch of the Protosynthesis Pokemon can still function outside sun, Leafeon is slow, frail, and is incredibly vulnerable without Weather Ball's coverage. Tera Blast requires even more resource investment in a given game, but it provides better coverage than Alluring Voice, and some real power unlike Mud Shot.
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Ban Slate 2
Hello everyone, we have 3 new things to share with you today. We’ve been hard at work looking at the state of the meta, and I’m here to announce what we believe are necessary changes.
these were also mistakenly banned, so they should be let back into the tier too.
On the chopping block today is Gouging Fire and Flutter Mane. These are both past paradox Ubers in standard play, and were unbanned earlier at the start to see if they can be competitive in Nature Swap. Short answer: nope.
Long answer is that, though they didn’t make major changes to their strategies, they still are too strong for Nature Swap. Flutter Mane is still fast strong and kind of bulky, but when it changes to a pure bulk set it’s annoying there too. The fairy types of Nature Swap are very strong, but Flutter Mane specifically feels the most overpowered. Gouging Fire’s new 121 speed lets it outspeed and ohko valuable pokemon like Kingambit, even without Booster Energy, Sun, or a Ddance. Even with a large amount of defense missing, it’s not hard to set up. Majority of defensive answers to physical sweepers in this tier require burning them to reduce their damage output, and Gouging Fire is notably immune to that. So it’s a semi-bulky fast physical burn-immune immediate and set up sweeper. Yuck.
Onto the final change: we will be implementing Nature Reveal Clause. I know there’s too many games decided by playing multiple 50/50s with things like Tera, but we believe that implementing Nature Reveal Clause only has benefits, while there would be detriments to removing Terastalization. This would reveal which nature a pokemon is once it is in battle. You can see how it works here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-natureswap-2396
Tagging dhelmise to implement, thank you so much
Hello everyone, we have 3 new things to share with you today. We’ve been hard at work looking at the state of the meta, and I’m here to announce what we believe are necessary changes.
| Banded Body Press | Prunyy | Pipotchi | Clas | Result | |
| Gouging Fire | Ban | DNB | Ban | Ban | Ban |
| Flutter Mane | Ban | Ban | Ban | DNB | Ban |
| Nature Reveal Clause | Implement | Implement | Implement | Implement | Implement |
these were also mistakenly banned, so they should be let back into the tier too.On the chopping block today is Gouging Fire and Flutter Mane. These are both past paradox Ubers in standard play, and were unbanned earlier at the start to see if they can be competitive in Nature Swap. Short answer: nope.
Long answer is that, though they didn’t make major changes to their strategies, they still are too strong for Nature Swap. Flutter Mane is still fast strong and kind of bulky, but when it changes to a pure bulk set it’s annoying there too. The fairy types of Nature Swap are very strong, but Flutter Mane specifically feels the most overpowered. Gouging Fire’s new 121 speed lets it outspeed and ohko valuable pokemon like Kingambit, even without Booster Energy, Sun, or a Ddance. Even with a large amount of defense missing, it’s not hard to set up. Majority of defensive answers to physical sweepers in this tier require burning them to reduce their damage output, and Gouging Fire is notably immune to that. So it’s a semi-bulky fast physical burn-immune immediate and set up sweeper. Yuck.
Onto the final change: we will be implementing Nature Reveal Clause. I know there’s too many games decided by playing multiple 50/50s with things like Tera, but we believe that implementing Nature Reveal Clause only has benefits, while there would be detriments to removing Terastalization. This would reveal which nature a pokemon is once it is in battle. You can see how it works here: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/aqua-natureswap-2396
Tagging dhelmise to implement, thank you so much
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https://pokepast.es/b91aa71004176bef obligatory rain
nascar thund the goat and it walls bolt?
1 rand game vs sun
probs should be hasty or modest treads
scarf enam a filler slot but mon never feels bad to put
nascar thund the goat and it walls bolt?
1 rand game vs sun
probs should be hasty or modest treads
scarf enam a filler slot but mon never feels bad to put
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I think Archaludon is broken, anyone else relate? Way too bulky, needs like 2-3 mons to take down. Araq is also very dumb under TR.
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Okay, I may have found a potential check to Araquanid. First time, please tell me if there's something I can improve on.
Tentacruel @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Flip Turn
- Rapid Spin
- Sludge Bomb
- Surf / Weather Ball
With a relaxed (+Def, -Spe) nature, Tentacruel has base 100 defense, giving it more bulk and a 42.2% chance of surviving 2 hits from a 252+ Atk Araquanid in the rain, and a 44.3% chance to survive 3 hits without rain.
252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel in Rain: 168-198 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 111-132 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 55.7% chance to 3HKO
Tentacruel's Water/Poison typing allows it to resist both of Araquanid's stabs of Water and Bug. It has Rapid Spin, allowing it to spin away the webs Araquanid could potentially set, and Flip Turn to get out of there if Araquanid switches out. Sludge Bomb has a roughly 0.5% chance to 3hko after lefties, while guaranteeing a 3hko if Araquanid doesn't have lefties.
16 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Araquanid: 109-129 (32 - 37.9%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
However, with Sludge Bomb's 30% chance to poison each time it's used, it has a roughly 65.7% chance to 3hko.
If Araquanid teras to a poison resist, like tera ghost, Surf has a 99.8% chance to 3hko after 1 resisted Sludge Bomb.
16 SpA Tentacruel Surf vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Ghost Araquanid: 109-129 (32 - 37.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Weather Ball can be used on rain teams to guarantee a 2hko in rain.
16 SpA Tentacruel Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Ghost Araquanid in Rain: 183-216 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Tentacruel @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA
Relaxed Nature
- Flip Turn
- Rapid Spin
- Sludge Bomb
- Surf / Weather Ball
With a relaxed (+Def, -Spe) nature, Tentacruel has base 100 defense, giving it more bulk and a 42.2% chance of surviving 2 hits from a 252+ Atk Araquanid in the rain, and a 44.3% chance to survive 3 hits without rain.
252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel in Rain: 168-198 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 57.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 111-132 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- 55.7% chance to 3HKO
Tentacruel's Water/Poison typing allows it to resist both of Araquanid's stabs of Water and Bug. It has Rapid Spin, allowing it to spin away the webs Araquanid could potentially set, and Flip Turn to get out of there if Araquanid switches out. Sludge Bomb has a roughly 0.5% chance to 3hko after lefties, while guaranteeing a 3hko if Araquanid doesn't have lefties.
16 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Araquanid: 109-129 (32 - 37.9%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
However, with Sludge Bomb's 30% chance to poison each time it's used, it has a roughly 65.7% chance to 3hko.
If Araquanid teras to a poison resist, like tera ghost, Surf has a 99.8% chance to 3hko after 1 resisted Sludge Bomb.
16 SpA Tentacruel Surf vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Ghost Araquanid: 109-129 (32 - 37.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Weather Ball can be used on rain teams to guarantee a 2hko in rain.
16 SpA Tentacruel Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Tera Ghost Araquanid in Rain: 183-216 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
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What exactly sets Tentacruel apart from being almost a worse Toxapex besides Rapid Spin, and is Tentacruel useful in other situations besides checking Araquanid and having Rapid Spin? Also, exactly what nature is the Araquanid using?
No idea if I'm doing this correctly but I made a thing.
Sinistcha @ Life Orb
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Matcha Gotcha
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
Sinistcha @ Life Orb
Ability: Heatproof
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Matcha Gotcha
- Scald
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
Araquanid has a relaxed nature (sorry, I forgot to give the stats affected by the nature).
Ngl, Tentacruel doesn't have much else going for it besides Rapid Spin. The main reason I mentioned Tentacruel was because my team needed both hazard removal, and a way to switch into Araquanid in one slot.
Besides checking Araquanid, it may also deal with Choice Band Azumarill, having a 98.4% chance of 2hko'ing, and Azumarill only being able to deal 41% max with Play Rough.
16 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 200-236 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 126-149 (34.7 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If Azumarill has Knock Off, that would deal a max of 58.9% to Tentacruel, missing out on the 2hko.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 181-214 (49.8 - 58.9%)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 244+ Def Tentacruel: 122-144 (33.6 - 39.6%)
If anyone wants to see if Tentacruel checks anything else, feel free to, I can't think of anything else that Tentacruel might be able to check rn.
As a thing i proudly found playing months ago on Category Swap, it kinda comes back relatively well on niche team as a decent revenge killer
Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Retaliate
- Shadow Sneak
- U-turn
- Liquidation/Sucker Punch (or anything else you may want)
The flaws on this set at this mode is that it cannot run fast banded naturally because speed stat swap to buff its attack. But overall it can be quite decently stab normal 140 retaliate. Also gaining stab on a priority move on some situations could be awesome too
Ability: Protean
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Retaliate
- Shadow Sneak
- U-turn
- Liquidation/Sucker Punch (or anything else you may want)
The flaws on this set at this mode is that it cannot run fast banded naturally because speed stat swap to buff its attack. But overall it can be quite decently stab normal 140 retaliate. Also gaining stab on a priority move on some situations could be awesome too
Would this mean adamant gives the 10% boost to attack and modest gives the 10% boost to special attack?
azu is banned
ah, the bans were implemented?
azu was already banned, the gouging fire and flutter mane bans aren’t implememntemas
ah, my bad. I swear, I saw azu in a game tho. oh well
Hello Nature Swap department, I've returned with another post, this time featuring a very large bundle of Pokemon, 24 to be exact.
Here is the Pokepaste box, and below will be smaller descriptions separated into 8's. This isn't all intended to be the best, but I figured it'd be a nice slap here for either starting players, or those who just want ideas, as such I also tried to avoid the most common of the common like Avalugg-H, but other less obviously abusable Pokemon are included.
https://pokepast.es/e57b0653c30cc8e5
I also mostly picked mons that don't seem like obvious future bans, other than Araquanid, who I can see getting banned.
Final thoughts: If you have advice for changes then feel free to post them, and hopefully this was at the least a decent read. See ya folks, fun Meta, can't wait to be able to see natures too lol.
Here is the Pokepaste box, and below will be smaller descriptions separated into 8's. This isn't all intended to be the best, but I figured it'd be a nice slap here for either starting players, or those who just want ideas, as such I also tried to avoid the most common of the common like Avalugg-H, but other less obviously abusable Pokemon are included.
https://pokepast.es/e57b0653c30cc8e5
I also mostly picked mons that don't seem like obvious future bans, other than Araquanid, who I can see getting banned.
Rillaboom is an interesting case, it has a few sets from what I've seen, but it's ability to work well with Hawlucha (Grassy Seed) is fairly notable, as well as with Slowking-G (EQ Weakening)
Ting-Lu is a great wall, you can replace EQ with Ruination since your Atk is lower, but you don't have to, works fine as is.
Ditto is interesting to use in this format, with a lot of set up abusers, it can punish early set ups well, especially with how easy Mola is to fit on a team, it can quite easily be ran in, healed to full each time, and do it's job just as it needs to, can replace Scarf for HDB but it loses a lot of it's revenge killing potential against it's current foe. Trade off is now being better against the rest of it's team since it won't get locked down to one move.
Mola is obvious but god damn is it just that good.
Forretress is very fun, Spikes are nice to set up, VS is great to have, and it appreciates the extra SpD. The best buff though, is Mola, since it has more SpD, you can bring it in more often on strong SpA and on Fire attacks. FTress + Mola Combos hate Volcanion even more though.
Lando is Lando with 145 Speed, that's good, item can be swapped around, but U-Turn, Rocks, Psychic, and EP, are fairly great against most teams.
Metagross isn't half bad, you can slap BP on it if you want, Prio is very handy against Ava-H, which this Metagross struggles with. Other than that, Meteor Mash is great fun, when it's not missing.
Spectrier is so damn good, especially with Flutter going out the door, it can make endgame sweeps like nothing, good Sucker VS Sub reads can make such easy wins. Tera Fairy helps boost it's damage real nice, +2 Tera Fairy D-Kiss kills most Gambit sets, and behind Sub it's not too much to worry about. It's ability helps subtract the SpA loss, but that speed is a godsend in this absurdly fast Meta.
Ting-Lu is a great wall, you can replace EQ with Ruination since your Atk is lower, but you don't have to, works fine as is.
Ditto is interesting to use in this format, with a lot of set up abusers, it can punish early set ups well, especially with how easy Mola is to fit on a team, it can quite easily be ran in, healed to full each time, and do it's job just as it needs to, can replace Scarf for HDB but it loses a lot of it's revenge killing potential against it's current foe. Trade off is now being better against the rest of it's team since it won't get locked down to one move.
Mola is obvious but god damn is it just that good.
Forretress is very fun, Spikes are nice to set up, VS is great to have, and it appreciates the extra SpD. The best buff though, is Mola, since it has more SpD, you can bring it in more often on strong SpA and on Fire attacks. FTress + Mola Combos hate Volcanion even more though.
Lando is Lando with 145 Speed, that's good, item can be swapped around, but U-Turn, Rocks, Psychic, and EP, are fairly great against most teams.
Metagross isn't half bad, you can slap BP on it if you want, Prio is very handy against Ava-H, which this Metagross struggles with. Other than that, Meteor Mash is great fun, when it's not missing.
Spectrier is so damn good, especially with Flutter going out the door, it can make endgame sweeps like nothing, good Sucker VS Sub reads can make such easy wins. Tera Fairy helps boost it's damage real nice, +2 Tera Fairy D-Kiss kills most Gambit sets, and behind Sub it's not too much to worry about. It's ability helps subtract the SpA loss, but that speed is a godsend in this absurdly fast Meta.
Ogerpon WS is a pretty neato Pokemon here, it can beat Mola, Taunt and beat Liquidation only Dozos, and generally be a fast decently hard hitter other than that.
SR Rapid Spin Great Tusk but more bulky. It's good. Moveset can be changed around, Tera can, be, item can be, nature and EVs can be. It's Tusk, it'll probably work anyways.
Darkrai: Call me a hater of creativity but Atk sets are not all that worth it. Knock and Sucker are great but I still think 99% of the time, Gambit will do you a better job with more damage and an actually helpful ability. But, it's SpA sets can be nice with it's good Speed, can be NP if you want a sweeper, but Hex is good fun on Toxic Spikes/Toxic spreading teams. It's Atk set will fall once we can see Natures cause well, then why would you stay in if you were scared of a Phys attacker, theres no guessing Sucker, you just, know now, yeah it's the same with Gambit but that beats Fairies, this beats, nothing?
Kingambit, wow it just got a big speed stat, wow it just got a big SpA stat, wow it just got a good SpD stat. Not saying it's broken but, yeah Gambit works no matter what. The basic attack set though I think is still the best.
Moltres-G: Fun Pokemon, pretty versatile, change as you please. Foul Play is a decent option too. Fiery Wrath flinches will haunt STABmon players til they die.
Drifblim: This set is for killing Gliscors, it can be good other than that but I saw people complaining about it and used it for like 2 matches, it works fine. Pretty sure BandedBodyPress dropped a similar set on Discord, which was probably more refined, but this is definitely not it's best set, fun though.
Goodra-H: Goodra-K isn't that good, I saw people debating it's use, I think it's mid, Goodra-H beats it here. It's fast as can be, it's Phys bulk is better if you wanna take advantage of Gooey, and it's SpA is pretty good with Specs, while also having STAB Flash Cannon for Fairies.
Gengar: Probably a worse Spec, but it does have Encore, and Encore is cool also Sludge Bomb is neato stuff with the decent bit of fairies roaming.
SR Rapid Spin Great Tusk but more bulky. It's good. Moveset can be changed around, Tera can, be, item can be, nature and EVs can be. It's Tusk, it'll probably work anyways.
Darkrai: Call me a hater of creativity but Atk sets are not all that worth it. Knock and Sucker are great but I still think 99% of the time, Gambit will do you a better job with more damage and an actually helpful ability. But, it's SpA sets can be nice with it's good Speed, can be NP if you want a sweeper, but Hex is good fun on Toxic Spikes/Toxic spreading teams. It's Atk set will fall once we can see Natures cause well, then why would you stay in if you were scared of a Phys attacker, theres no guessing Sucker, you just, know now, yeah it's the same with Gambit but that beats Fairies, this beats, nothing?
Kingambit, wow it just got a big speed stat, wow it just got a big SpA stat, wow it just got a good SpD stat. Not saying it's broken but, yeah Gambit works no matter what. The basic attack set though I think is still the best.
Moltres-G: Fun Pokemon, pretty versatile, change as you please. Foul Play is a decent option too. Fiery Wrath flinches will haunt STABmon players til they die.
Drifblim: This set is for killing Gliscors, it can be good other than that but I saw people complaining about it and used it for like 2 matches, it works fine. Pretty sure BandedBodyPress dropped a similar set on Discord, which was probably more refined, but this is definitely not it's best set, fun though.
Goodra-H: Goodra-K isn't that good, I saw people debating it's use, I think it's mid, Goodra-H beats it here. It's fast as can be, it's Phys bulk is better if you wanna take advantage of Gooey, and it's SpA is pretty good with Specs, while also having STAB Flash Cannon for Fairies.
Gengar: Probably a worse Spec, but it does have Encore, and Encore is cool also Sludge Bomb is neato stuff with the decent bit of fairies roaming.
Ghold: It's neato stuff, that big Def is awesome. If you want, you could definitely also swap the Def investment into SpD since it's already got the huge Defense stat, but I like the extra HP and Defense anyways. The Speed is because I've seen quite a bit of -Atk Gliscors that still have Knock/EQ, and so to ensure I outspeed, there's the 92 Speed EVS, definitely can move them though.
Enam: This variant of Enam is strictly better in my opinion. Big bulk, big damage, decent speed, good coverage. What's there not to like, and I enjoy using ugly Pokemon sometimes. People only hate on how this thing looks cause it sucks, you ever look a Great Tusk in the face? You can change it's coverage though if you want.
Araquanid: I figured I'd include it since it's a bit of a staple, I don't use it though so that set definitely isn't optimal, but I hate using Pokemon I have even the slightest feeling will get banned later and, I can't shake the feeling this dude isn't long for this world.
Gliscor: This set is -Spe, this is good for U-Turn, and those EQ's still hit for fine damage. It's just as good as it is in OU, but now just a bit more specially bulky, it doensn't beg for mercy when swapping in on Grass Knots or Neutral SpAs anymore. Set and EVs can be changed, but nature is probably it's best as is.
Latios: You can swap item, but Soul Dew boosts STABs, nice stuff, and pretty handy given Zen/Claw aren't the strongest moves in the world. But D-Dance is sick, Liquidation and Tera Water is for Ice coverage from Ava-H if Sturdy is broken, Ice Beam from other Dragons, Bax typically.
Comfey: Is this it's Dex set? Absolutely yes not. Tera Blast Ground hits the Steels and Poisons in the tier nice, Giga hits like a truck on waters, and Kiss is Kiss. Taunt is also neato stuff, you can run it, I don't run it, but I got hit with it once and I handled it well. fuckin taunt? really? How does it taunt, shaking it's flowers? some shit
Vaporeon: I was stalking replays to see people's sets and cool stuff the other day, and saw this beat a Mola team with Ava-H. No regenerator sucks, but if you play with that in mind, it definitely works.
Dondozo: It's a good set, you can use BP or Liquidation, either one works. It has some huge weaknesses, like not hitting ghosts or WA mons depending on the move you take, losing to taunt in endgame, etc etc. But this is a fun, worthwhile set to include at times, just build around it's weaknesses.
Enam: This variant of Enam is strictly better in my opinion. Big bulk, big damage, decent speed, good coverage. What's there not to like, and I enjoy using ugly Pokemon sometimes. People only hate on how this thing looks cause it sucks, you ever look a Great Tusk in the face? You can change it's coverage though if you want.
Araquanid: I figured I'd include it since it's a bit of a staple, I don't use it though so that set definitely isn't optimal, but I hate using Pokemon I have even the slightest feeling will get banned later and, I can't shake the feeling this dude isn't long for this world.
Gliscor: This set is -Spe, this is good for U-Turn, and those EQ's still hit for fine damage. It's just as good as it is in OU, but now just a bit more specially bulky, it doensn't beg for mercy when swapping in on Grass Knots or Neutral SpAs anymore. Set and EVs can be changed, but nature is probably it's best as is.
Latios: You can swap item, but Soul Dew boosts STABs, nice stuff, and pretty handy given Zen/Claw aren't the strongest moves in the world. But D-Dance is sick, Liquidation and Tera Water is for Ice coverage from Ava-H if Sturdy is broken, Ice Beam from other Dragons, Bax typically.
Comfey: Is this it's Dex set? Absolutely yes not. Tera Blast Ground hits the Steels and Poisons in the tier nice, Giga hits like a truck on waters, and Kiss is Kiss. Taunt is also neato stuff, you can run it, I don't run it, but I got hit with it once and I handled it well. fuckin taunt? really? How does it taunt, shaking it's flowers? some shit
Vaporeon: I was stalking replays to see people's sets and cool stuff the other day, and saw this beat a Mola team with Ava-H. No regenerator sucks, but if you play with that in mind, it definitely works.
Dondozo: It's a good set, you can use BP or Liquidation, either one works. It has some huge weaknesses, like not hitting ghosts or WA mons depending on the move you take, losing to taunt in endgame, etc etc. But this is a fun, worthwhile set to include at times, just build around it's weaknesses.
Final thoughts: If you have advice for changes then feel free to post them, and hopefully this was at the least a decent read. See ya folks, fun Meta, can't wait to be able to see natures too lol.
Hey cool set, biggest things to worry about are Enamorus, and 105 Speed tier. The current set lets Enam pretty easily set up in front of it, though NP ensures it will technically out damage it, Enam is a bulky Mon so it'll probably catch up and kill since it outspeeds.
Tera Steel could beat it, as well as taking advantage of Heatproof, and if they Tera Ground then you can Matcha Gatcha. Beyond that, you can run CM for bulk set up since your speed tier is low for the tier, 105 Speed loses against a lot of other things, such as Avalugg-H, Gengar, Spectrier, Darkrai, Gambit, Enam, etc.
Tusk can also be a pain, 131 Speed sets can take advantage of your low defense with Knock off, especially if they're something like Tera Dark to boost it's damage. Not to mention LO drops you lower. For this reason, Lando can also scare you pretty bad if you are Tera steel, and some sets run Sludge Bomb anyway which can sting a bit, a bit that'll suck for a LO set.
Built with it in mind though it can be a threatening sweeper, I'd say the only solid change I'd personally always make is CM over NP, just cause you're pretty slow, so bulk is nice. But that can also be a reason that NP is good if you wanna quickly empty an opposing slower team.
how does "neutral" nature's work? do you just get the 10% increase? or does it only remove the negative from nature's when it swaps?
For example Hardy increases AND decreases Attack by 10%, so would using that nature remove the decrease and just be a +10% attack? or would it do nothing because it's not actually swapping?
For example Hardy increases AND decreases Attack by 10%, so would using that nature remove the decrease and just be a +10% attack? or would it do nothing because it's not actually swapping?
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This is a common question: sadly, no, neutral natures are not programmed to just give you a boost. (Though IMO that leaves the meta more distinct - +Spe -Spe would be centralizing (though not overcentralizing, tbh) and the meta would lose a bit of identity)
EDIT: Side note, I think I’ve just innovated
Araquanid @ Whatever
Ability: Water Bubble
Tera Type: Water / Bug / Whatever
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Lonely Nature (Naughty, Mild, and Rash also work, though SpA swaps hurt its bulk more, especially Rash (-SpD, +SpA))
- Liquidation/Surf
- Leech Life/Bug Buzz
- Sticky Web/Other (Idk anyone not running webs tbh)
- Entrainment
Oh Hey, nice clodsire you have! It’d be a shame if you weren’t water immune anymore :) Clod doesn’t really have a reason to run a water move and burn isn’t really a major issue for Clod anyways, so you effectively void its ability outright. Pretty much just a hard clod counter, but when Clod’s also the “good one” that fact matters a lot less
EDIT: Side note, I think I’ve just innovated
Araquanid @ Whatever
Ability: Water Bubble
Tera Type: Water / Bug / Whatever
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Lonely Nature (Naughty, Mild, and Rash also work, though SpA swaps hurt its bulk more, especially Rash (-SpD, +SpA))
EVs: 252 Atk/SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
Naive Nature
- Leech Life/Bug Buzz
- Sticky Web/Other (Idk anyone not running webs tbh)
- Entrainment
Oh Hey, nice clodsire you have! It’d be a shame if you weren’t water immune anymore :) Clod doesn’t really have a reason to run a water move and burn isn’t really a major issue for Clod anyways, so you effectively void its ability outright. Pretty much just a hard clod counter, but when Clod’s also the “good one” that fact matters a lot less
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Neutral natures don’t do anything. I understand that every graph has all the neutral natures agreeing on the same stats, but I can’t find a real, in-game source for this. I’d love for neutral natures to boost stats, so if anyone can show me where this originated from I’m sure that as long as it was in a mainline game it could be done.
Hello. Hit top 10 on the ladder so I figured I'd share some of my thoughts about the tier.
not that impressive ig but whatever lol
I've seen quite a few posts about various very high attack/speed but very low bulk mons like Kingambit and H!Avalugg, and, while fun, I don't find them to be very good. Between hazards and a plethora of strong priority options, these mons have a tendency to get picked off easily. Super frail sweepers haven't been great in OU this generation, and I think the same mostly holds true in this tier.
Conversely, I've found that some of the most improved mons are the ones that can relatively freely increase their speed without losing anything. Examples below:
Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Taunt / Grass Knot
- U-turn
Fast utility timid Lando-T is excellent. Thanks to its newly acquired 145 base speed, it is free to invest fully into bulk, making it a premier rocks setter and fast pivot, while also being a great stopgap to dangerous physical attackers like Kingambit, Roaring Moon, Iron Hands, and more. The amount of role compression it provides is unmatched. Same as what it does in OU really, but even better. NP sets are also good.
Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Specs / Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground / Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb / Tera Blast
Volcanion was already one of the most difficult mons to switch into thanks to steam eruption and good coverage. With a much more comfortable 110 base speed, it becomes a pretty terrifying offensive powerhouse. Even with the abundance of AV users in the tier, there isn't much that likes switching into this thing. It's also one of the best Araquanid switch-ins, especially if Araquanid is running rash or naughty. Specs and AV need good removal though.
Hatterene @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Normal / Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Future Sight / Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Nuzzle
Hatterene with an actual speed stat is super annoying, especially thanks to nuzzle crippling a huge portion of the tier due to its reliance on speed. I've had the most consistent success with AV, but there are definitely other ideas worth exploring.
Blaziken (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Ghost / Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
Blaziken now only needs a single turn to outspeed nearly everything except fast booster mons, which makes it much more immediately threatening. Revenge killing it is also shaky due to its resistance to most common priority moves. I personally like air balloon + acrobatics for easier switch-ins and a powerful coverage move, other sets like grassy seed + acrobatics or leftovers/life orb + knock off could also work though.
Meta is overall pretty fun, plenty of stuff to play around with and figure out. Araquanid and Torkoal are dumb though.
not that impressive ig but whatever lol
Conversely, I've found that some of the most improved mons are the ones that can relatively freely increase their speed without losing anything. Examples below:
Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power
- Taunt / Grass Knot
- U-turn
Fast utility timid Lando-T is excellent. Thanks to its newly acquired 145 base speed, it is free to invest fully into bulk, making it a premier rocks setter and fast pivot, while also being a great stopgap to dangerous physical attackers like Kingambit, Roaring Moon, Iron Hands, and more. The amount of role compression it provides is unmatched. Same as what it does in OU really, but even better. NP sets are also good.
Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Specs / Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
Tera Type: Ground / Fairy
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb / Tera Blast
Volcanion was already one of the most difficult mons to switch into thanks to steam eruption and good coverage. With a much more comfortable 110 base speed, it becomes a pretty terrifying offensive powerhouse. Even with the abundance of AV users in the tier, there isn't much that likes switching into this thing. It's also one of the best Araquanid switch-ins, especially if Araquanid is running rash or naughty. Specs and AV need good removal though.
Hatterene @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Normal / Water
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draining Kiss
- Future Sight / Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Nuzzle
Hatterene with an actual speed stat is super annoying, especially thanks to nuzzle crippling a huge portion of the tier due to its reliance on speed. I've had the most consistent success with AV, but there are definitely other ideas worth exploring.
Blaziken (F) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Speed Boost
Tera Type: Ghost / Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
Blaziken now only needs a single turn to outspeed nearly everything except fast booster mons, which makes it much more immediately threatening. Revenge killing it is also shaky due to its resistance to most common priority moves. I personally like air balloon + acrobatics for easier switch-ins and a powerful coverage move, other sets like grassy seed + acrobatics or leftovers/life orb + knock off could also work though.
There's a number of other mons that get better so I'll list a few that I like using here.
As others have already pointed out, Tusk can now reach a much better speed tier. You don't have to run max speed though; it's super customizable which is pretty nice.
H!Samurott is a bit faster now which is cool. Spikes are also great for messing with the sturdy mons everyone loves running.
Kingambit does the exact same thing it does in OU, except now it has 60 base speed instead of 50. Fun. 120 speed sets are pretty bad though imo. Losing the bulk kills a lot of Kingambit's usual utility and makes it harder to fit on teams.
95 base speed makes Tyranitar a fair bit more flexible, which is nice given how deep its movepool is. That said, it's pretty bad into Tusk which limits its potential a lot.
With a much better speed tier, Eelektross is now a decent setup sweeper thanks to its decent defenses and lack of weaknesses, and is great into Alomomola structures, especially once opposing ground types have been worn down.
There's obviously still lots of mons that get anywhere from a little bit to a lot better (i.e. Heatran and Enam-T respectively), but I'll leave it at that for now.
As others have already pointed out, Tusk can now reach a much better speed tier. You don't have to run max speed though; it's super customizable which is pretty nice. H!Samurott is a bit faster now which is cool. Spikes are also great for messing with the sturdy mons everyone loves running. Kingambit does the exact same thing it does in OU, except now it has 60 base speed instead of 50. Fun. 120 speed sets are pretty bad though imo. Losing the bulk kills a lot of Kingambit's usual utility and makes it harder to fit on teams. 95 base speed makes Tyranitar a fair bit more flexible, which is nice given how deep its movepool is. That said, it's pretty bad into Tusk which limits its potential a lot. With a much better speed tier, Eelektross is now a decent setup sweeper thanks to its decent defenses and lack of weaknesses, and is great into Alomomola structures, especially once opposing ground types have been worn down.There's obviously still lots of mons that get anywhere from a little bit to a lot better (i.e. Heatran and Enam-T respectively), but I'll leave it at that for now.
the horse is so funhttps://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9natureswap-2276822313
On another note- a stupid tech that I’ve been running do NOT let me into the kitchen
80/70/110/140/110/60
lava lamp (Iron Moth) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Fiery Dance
- Psychic
- Morning Sun
THATS RIGHT BULKY MOTH. This set is SO gimmicky but SO fun. Poison/Fire is a shockingly good defensive typing- yes you are weak to Rock, Water and Psychic + that crippling quad Ground weakness, but you also resist common offensive types in Fighting, Poison, Steel, Fire and Ice + quad resist Bug, Grass and most importantly Fairy. 80/110/110 bulk is nothing to scoff at, and even uninvested base 140 spatk still hits hard, especially after you get a lucky +1 spatk from fiery dance. Take a look at some calcs:
vs
252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Iron Moth: 79-94 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- 95.3% chance to 4HKO
&
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Tera Water Iron Moth: 147-174 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
&
+1 0 SpA Iron Moth Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 430-508 (115.9 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs 
252 Atk Avalugg Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Iron Moth: 150-178 (45.3 - 53.7%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO
&
0 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 422-498 (107.1 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
~~~
But what about the special attacker matchup????
vs
+2 252 SpA Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 120 HP / 252 SpD Iron Moth: 195-229 (58.9 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
&
+1 0 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Spectrier: 208-246 (60.8 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs :Moltres-hisui:
+1 252 SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 120 HP / 252 SpD Iron Moth: 136-162 (41 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
&
+1 0 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar: 225-265 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
~~~
Overall, bulky moth is quite good imho. The surprise factor is a big part of that (which will disappear as I post this and as we get nature reveal), but overall it works very well. The sun matchup is EXCELLENT because of sun boosted fiery dances as well as hUGE morning sun heals. Tera water* and almost nothing on sun can stop you after a +1 spatk boost. Peace ✌︎︎
*if y’all can think of a better tera type lmk
lava lamp (Iron Moth) @ Air Balloon Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 120 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Fiery Dance
- Psychic
- Morning Sun
THATS RIGHT BULKY MOTH. This set is SO gimmicky but SO fun. Poison/Fire is a shockingly good defensive typing- yes you are weak to Rock, Water and Psychic + that crippling quad Ground weakness, but you also resist common offensive types in Fighting, Poison, Steel, Fire and Ice + quad resist Bug, Grass and most importantly Fairy. 80/110/110 bulk is nothing to scoff at, and even uninvested base 140 spatk still hits hard, especially after you get a lucky +1 spatk from fiery dance. Take a look at some calcs:
vs 252 Atk Great Tusk Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Iron Moth: 79-94 (23.8 - 28.3%) -- 95.3% chance to 4HKO
&
252 Atk Great Tusk Headlong Rush vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Tera Water Iron Moth: 147-174 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- 19.9% chance to 2HKO
&
+1 0 SpA Iron Moth Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Great Tusk: 430-508 (115.9 - 136.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
vs 252 Atk Avalugg Stone Edge vs. 120 HP / 136+ Def Iron Moth: 150-178 (45.3 - 53.7%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO
&
0 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Avalugg: 422-498 (107.1 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
~~~
But what about the special attacker matchup????
vs +2 252 SpA Spectrier Shadow Ball vs. 120 HP / 252 SpD Iron Moth: 195-229 (58.9 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
&
+1 0 SpA Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Spectrier: 208-246 (60.8 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
vs :Moltres-hisui:+1 252 SpA Moltres-Galar Fiery Wrath vs. 120 HP / 252 SpD Iron Moth: 136-162 (41 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
&
+1 0 SpA Iron Moth Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Moltres-Galar: 225-265 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
~~~
Overall, bulky moth is quite good imho. The surprise factor is a big part of that (which will disappear as I post this and as we get nature reveal), but overall it works very well. The sun matchup is EXCELLENT because of sun boosted fiery dances as well as hUGE morning sun heals. Tera water* and almost nothing on sun can stop you after a +1 spatk boost. Peace ✌︎︎
*if y’all can think of a better tera type lmk
Is the banlist implemented? just ran into some dude with a flutter mane
No not yet