Naviathan

[Lasen]

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Facade
move 4: Slack Off / Icicle Crash
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Details
===================

Naviathan is a decent setup sweeper able to break through common walls such as Clefable, Heatran, and Slowking thanks to its combination of Dragon Dance and Guts. However, its lack of good coverage options and middling Speed leave it outclassed by Garchomp and Weavile. Also, the combination of chip from Rocky Helmet users and burn damage from Flame Orb means it quickly gets worn down despite access to Slack Off. Facade provides some much needed coverage against defensive Water-types. After a Dragon Dance, it can OHKO Slowking and 2HKO Tapu Fini and non-Haze Toxapex. Slack Off keeps Naviathan healthy so that it can get more opportunities to set up, allowing it to take advantage of mostly passive balance teams and remain healthy. Icicle Crash is an option to hit Ferrothorn, 2HKO Zapdos, and OHKO Dragapult, but it leaves Naviathan more susceptible to being revenge killed. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed Choice Scarf Jumbao and Arctozolt in hail after a Dragon Dance.

Naviathan needs its Flame Orb to activate to effectively wallbreak, so teammates that give it safe switch-ins and can deter Knock Off are appreciated. Dragapult can pivot with U-turn to bring Naviathan in on Clefable, Heatran, and Tornadus-T. It also can help deal with Arghonaut and Ferrothorn, which otherwise completely wall Naviathan. Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn and Corviknight and remove them altogether. Rillaboom helps mitigate Naviathan's weakness to Earthquake and picks off weakened targets that Naviathan couldn't KO. It also helps deal with Tapu Fini. Stealth Rock setters like Landorus-T and Heatran and Spikes setters like Astrolotl can help rack up damage to help Naviathan get KOs. Heatran can also act as a Dragapult switch-in that can also force Ferrothorn out.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Water-types**: Arghonaut can take any hit from Naviathan and phaze it with Circle Throw. Toxapex can remove Naviathan's boosts with Haze and use Recover to regain all of its HP while Naviathan's HP gets whittled away by burn. Tapu Fini can come in on Naviathan and deny it its Guts boost with Misty Surge and bring it in range of revenge killers with Nature's Madness. Slowbro shrugs off any hit and can use Body Press to pressure Naviathan.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can take on most of Naviathan's hits and use either Leech Seed to recover its HP or Body Press, which 2HKOes it.

**Strong Revenge Killers**: Rillaboom and Revenankh can pick off Naviathan if it's been sufficiently chipped with their strong priority moves. Neither one wants to take a hit from it, though. If Naviathan hasn't boosted itself with Dragon Dance, Zeraora, Urshifu-R, and Garchomp can all threaten to OHKO. Dragapult resists Waterfall and is unaffected by Facade, so it can threaten it with Shadow Ball, but it must be careful of sets utilizing a coverage move such as Icicle Crash.

**Knock Off**: If Naviathan's Guts isn't active, Tornadus-T, Clefable, and Toxapex can all use Knock Off to remove its Flame Orb, effectively neutering it.


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[Rabia, 336073], [dex, 277988]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Estronic, 24732]]

 

[dex]

I do more checks than I have any right doing but only D2's burly arms could ever hope to stop me

AM Check
Blue = Addition
Red = Deletion
Green = Comments

AM Check

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Facade
move 4: Slack Off / Icicle Crash
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Details
===================
Naviathan is a decent setup sweeper, being able to break through common walls such as Clefable, Heatran, and Slowking thanks to its pseudo-status immunity combination of Dragon Dance and Guts (I don't see how the status immunity helps vs. tran, and TWave Clef isn't really worth mentioning imo). However, its lack of good coverage options and middling Speed leave it outclassed by Garchomp and Weavile as a Dragon Dance sweeper. (hate to be the bearer of bad news, but chomp doesn't get DD) Also, the combination of chip from Rocky Helmet users and burn damage from Flame Orb means it quickly gets worn down. Facade provides some much needed coverage against defensive Water-types. After a Dragon Dance, it can OHKO Slowking and 2HKOs Tapu Fini and Toxapex without Haze. Slack Off keeps Naviathan healthy so that it can get more opportunities to set up. Icicle Crash is an option to hit Ferrothorn and 2HKO Zapdos. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed Choice Scarf Jumbao and Arctozolt in Hail after a Dragon Dance. Might be worth mentioning Heavy Slam as an option to just obliterate some mons but it's not worth slashing so up to you.

Naviathan struggles to find opportunities to set up and so must rely on its teammates to put it in a position to use Dragon Dance safely. Dragapult can pivot with U-turn to bring Naviathan in on Clefable, Heatran, and Tornadus-T. It also can help deal with Arghonaut and Ferrothorn which otherwise completely wall Naviathan. Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn and Corviknight and remove them altogether. Rillaboom helps mitigate Naviathan's weakness to Earthquake and picks off weakened targets that Naviathan couldn't OHKO. It also helps deal with Tapu Fini. Spikes setters such as Arghonaut and Skarmory can help Naviathan turn some 2HKOs into OHKOs such as +1 Facade against Tapu Fini.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks and Counters
===================
**Arghonaut and Toxapex**: Arghonaut can take any hit from Naviathan and phaze it out with Circle Throw. Toxapex can Haze away Naviathan's boost and then use Recover to regain all of its HP while Naviathan gets whittled Naviathan's HP gets whittled away by its burn.

**Tapu Fini**: Tapu Fini can come in on Naviathan and deny it its Guts boost with Misty Surge or even and bring it in range of revenge killers with Nature's Madness.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can take on most of Naviathan's hits and either use either Leech Seed to recover its HP or Iron Defense to match its boosts and threaten it with Body Press.

**Strong revenge killers**: Rillaboom and Revenankh can pick off Naviathan if it's been sufficiently chipped with their strong priority moves. Neither one wants to take a hit from it, though.

**Knock Off**: Tornadus-T, Clefable, and Toxapex can all run Knock Off, effectively neutering Naviathan.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]] This ain't Ubers, Dorothy

 

[Rabia]

add remove comments

qc

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Facade
move 4: Slack Off / Icicle Crash
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Details
===================

Naviathan is a decent setup sweeper, being able to break through common walls such as Clefable, Heatran, and Slowking thanks to its combination of Dragon Dance and Guts. However, its lack of good coverage options and middling Speed leave it outclassed by Garchomp and Weavile as a sweeper. Also, the combination of chip from Rocky Helmet users and burn damage from Flame Orb means it quickly gets worn down despite access to Slack Off. Facade provides some much needed coverage against defensive Water-types. After a Dragon Dance, it can OHKO Slowking and 2HKOs Tapu Fini and non-Haze Toxapex without Haze. Slack Off keeps Naviathan healthy so that it can get more opportunities to set up.(I think you really should expand on this point because Slack Off is what makes Naviathan so good at taking advantage of Slowking balance builds. The sustain provided gives you a lot of leverage around passive Pokemon and lets you sit around for several turns spamming Facade/Waterfall.) Icicle Crash is an option to hit Ferrothorn and 2HKO Zapdos. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed Choice Scarf Jumbao and Arctozolt in Hail after a Dragon Dance.

Naviathan struggles to find opportunities to set up and must rely on its teammates to put it in a position to use Dragon Dance safely. (Does it really? There are quite a few common walls you take advantage of big time. You go on to mention Dragapult's good synergy, which I like; perhaps expand on how nice U-turn support is in giving you that guaranteed Flame Orb activation, especially against potential Knock Off users.) Dragapult can pivot with U-turn to bring Naviathan in on Clefable, Heatran, and Tornadus-T. It also can help deal with Arghonaut and Ferrothorn which otherwise completely wall Naviathan. Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn and Corviknight and remove them altogether. Rillaboom helps mitigate Naviathan's weakness to Earthquake and picks off weakened targets that Naviathan couldn't KO. It also helps deal with Tapu Fini. Spikes setters such as Arghonaut and Skarmory can help Naviathan turn some 2HKOs into OHKOs such as +1 Facade against Tapu Fini. (I truly hate the idea of Naviathan alongside either of these. Maybe just generalize it to entry hazards support as a whole?)

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks and Counters
===================

**Arghonaut and Toxapex**: Arghonaut can take any hit from Naviathan and phaze it out with Circle Throw. Toxapex can Haze away Naviathan's boost and then use Recover to regain all of its HP while Naviathan's HP gets whittled away by its burn.

**Tapu Fini**: Tapu Fini can come in on Naviathan and deny it its Guts boost with Misty Surge and bring it in range of revenge killers with Nature's Madness. (Condense these first two points into "Bulky Water-types" and add a mention of Slowbro. Body Press variants in particular are troublesome to deal with if Naviathan doesn't boost with Dragon Dance beforehand.)

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can take on most of Naviathan's hits and use either Leech Seed to recover its HP or Iron Defense to match its boosts and threaten it with Body Press.

**Strong revenge killers**: Rillaboom and Revenankh can pick off Naviathan if it's been sufficiently chipped with their strong priority moves. Neither one wants to take a hit from it, though. (Revenankh needs far too much chip damage to threaten a Shadow Sneak KO. I think you could afford to just list some wallbreakers that outspeed and OHKO Naviathan at +0 Speed in this section.)

**Knock Off**: Tornadus-T, Clefable, and Toxapex can all run Knock Off, effectively neutering Naviathan. (Reword this to say that it's scary to switch Naviathan into them before Guts is activated because of this.)

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[, ], [, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ]]

Is Icicle Crash even worth the slashing? Ferrothorn isn't particularly relevant, Zapdos takes a million from Facade, and Tomohawk is in a pretty bad spot right now too. I guess it's your best move to hit Dragapult with. Your call here if you think it's worth keeping. QC 1/2 when done.

 

[Lasen]

Will implement in a second, but the OHKO on Zapdos does feel pretty good and Ferrothorn just absolutely curbstomps you otherwise so I think I might just remove the slash but keep the mention.

Also, did you forget Revenankh has STAB Triage Drain Punch? That's what I was referring to. Your point about fast wallbreakers is fair though.

 

[Rabia]

Also, did you forget Revenankh has STAB Triage Drain Punch? That's what I was referring to. Your point about fast wallbreakers is fair though.

 

[dex]

QC check

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Facade
move 4: Slack Off
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Details
===================

Naviathan is a decent setup sweeper, being able to break through common walls such as Clefable, Heatran, and Slowking thanks to its combination of Dragon Dance and Guts. However, its lack of good coverage options and middling Speed leave it outclassed by Garchomp and Weavile as a sweeper. Also, the combination of chip from Rocky Helmet users and burn damage from Flame Orb means it quickly gets worn down despite access to Slack Off. Facade provides some much needed coverage against defensive Water-types. After a Dragon Dance, it can OHKO Slowking and 2HKOs Tapu Fini and non-Haze Toxapex. Slack Off keeps Naviathan healthy so that it can get more opportunities to set up, allowing it to take advantage of mostly passive balances and remain healthy. Icicle Crash is an option to hit Ferrothorn, 2HKO Zapdos, and OHKO Dragapult, but it leaves Naviathan more susceptible to being revenge killed. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed Choice Scarf Jumbao and Arctozolt in Hail after a Dragon Dance.

Naviathan needs its Flame Orb to have activated to effectively wallbreak, so teammates that give it safe switchins and can deter Knock Off are appreciated.(Does it really? There are quite a few common walls you take advantage of big time. You go on to mention Dragapult's good synergy, which I like; perhaps expand on how nice U-turn support is in giving you that guaranteed Flame Orb activation, especially against potential Knock Off users.) Dragapult can pivot with U-turn to bring Naviathan in on Clefable, Heatran, and Tornadus-T. It also can help deal with Arghonaut and Ferrothorn which otherwise completely wall Naviathan. Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn and Corviknight and remove them altogether. Rillaboom helps mitigate Naviathan's weakness to Earthquake and picks off weakened targets that Naviathan couldn't KO. It also helps deal with Tapu Fini. Stealth Rock setters like Landorus-T and Heatran and Spikes setters like Astrolotl can help rack up damage to help Naviathan get KOs.

Obviously, implement what you have bolded in the teammates paragraph. Also, I would mention Clefable or another Dragapult switch-in as a teammate, since Dragapult can eat one +1 Waterfall and OHKO with Specs Hex or do like 70 with Shadow Ball. Heatran should deserve special mention as a teammate outside of setting rocks since it can force damage onto bulky water-types.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Water-types**: Arghonaut can take any hit from Naviathan and phaze it out with Circle Throw. Toxapex can Haze away Naviathan's boost and then use Recover to regain all of its HP while Naviathan's HP gets whittled away by its burn. Tapu Fini can come in on Naviathan and deny it its Guts boost with Misty Surge and bring it in range of revenge killers with Nature's Madness. Slowbro shrugs off any hit and use Body Press to pressure Naviathan.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can take on most of Naviathan's hits and use either Leech Seed to recover its HP or Iron Defense to match its boosts and threaten it with Body Press, which 2HKOs. Please do not tell me there are still people using ID Ferro.

**Strong revenge killers**: Rillaboom and Revenankh can pick off Naviathan if it's been sufficiently chipped with their strong priority moves. Neither one wants to take a hit from it, though. If Naviathan hasn't boosted itself with Dragon Dance, Zeraora, Urshifu-R, and Garchomp can all threaten to OHKO.

**Knock Off**: If Naviathan's Guts isn't active, Tornadus-T, Clefable, and Toxapex can all use Knock Off to remove its Flame Orb, effectively neutering it.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[Rabia, 336073], [dex, 277988]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ]]

2/2 dude

 

[Rabia]

QC check

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Facade
move 4: Slack Off
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Details
===================

Naviathan is a decent setup sweeper, being able to break through common walls such as Clefable, Heatran, and Slowking thanks to its combination of Dragon Dance and Guts. However, its lack of good coverage options and middling Speed leave it outclassed by Garchomp and Weavile as a sweeper. Also, the combination of chip from Rocky Helmet users and burn damage from Flame Orb means it quickly gets worn down despite access to Slack Off. Facade provides some much needed coverage against defensive Water-types. After a Dragon Dance, it can OHKO Slowking and 2HKOs Tapu Fini and non-Haze Toxapex. Slack Off keeps Naviathan healthy so that it can get more opportunities to set up, allowing it to take advantage of mostly passive balances and remain healthy. Icicle Crash is an option to hit Ferrothorn, 2HKO Zapdos, and OHKO Dragapult, but it leaves Naviathan more susceptible to being revenge killed. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed Choice Scarf Jumbao and Arctozolt in Hail after a Dragon Dance.

Naviathan needs its Flame Orb to have activated to effectively wallbreak, so teammates that give it safe switchins and can deter Knock Off are appreciated.(Does it really? There are quite a few common walls you take advantage of big time. You go on to mention Dragapult's good synergy, which I like; perhaps expand on how nice U-turn support is in giving you that guaranteed Flame Orb activation, especially against potential Knock Off users.) Dragapult can pivot with U-turn to bring Naviathan in on Clefable, Heatran, and Tornadus-T. It also can help deal with Arghonaut and Ferrothorn which otherwise completely wall Naviathan. Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn and Corviknight and remove them altogether. Rillaboom helps mitigate Naviathan's weakness to Earthquake and picks off weakened targets that Naviathan couldn't KO. It also helps deal with Tapu Fini. Stealth Rock setters like Landorus-T and Heatran and Spikes setters like Astrolotl can help rack up damage to help Naviathan get KOs.

Obviously, implement what you have bolded in the teammates paragraph. Also, I would mention Clefable or another Dragapult switch-in as a teammate, since Dragapult can eat one +1 Waterfall and OHKO with Specs Hex or do like 70 with Shadow Ball. Heatran should deserve special mention as a teammate outside of setting rocks since it can force damage onto bulky water-types.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Water-types**: Arghonaut can take any hit from Naviathan and phaze it out with Circle Throw. Toxapex can Haze away Naviathan's boost and then use Recover to regain all of its HP while Naviathan's HP gets whittled away by its burn. Tapu Fini can come in on Naviathan and deny it its Guts boost with Misty Surge and bring it in range of revenge killers with Nature's Madness. Slowbro shrugs off any hit and use Body Press to pressure Naviathan. Maybe I'm just not that experienced with Slowbro since I have not seen one in ages, but Body Press Slowbro is probably not worth mentioning.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can take on most of Naviathan's hits and use either Leech Seed to recover its HP or Iron Defense to match its boosts and threaten it with Body Press, which 2HKOs. Please do not tell me there are still people using ID Ferro.

**Strong revenge killers**: Rillaboom and Revenankh can pick off Naviathan if it's been sufficiently chipped with their strong priority moves. Neither one wants to take a hit from it, though. If Naviathan hasn't boosted itself with Dragon Dance, Zeraora, Urshifu-R, and Garchomp can all threaten to OHKO.

**Knock Off**: If Naviathan's Guts isn't active, Tornadus-T, Clefable, and Toxapex can all use Knock Off to remove its Flame Orb, effectively neutering it.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[Rabia, 336073], [dex, 277988]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ]]

2/2 dude
View attachment 370766

body press slowbro is very standard and lets you beat sd weav w/ colbur. it is worth mentioning lol

 

[dex]

body press slowbro is very standard and lets you beat sd weav w/ colbur. it is worth mentioning lol

Ah I was not aware this was a thing I'll be honest, have not seen a Slowbro in the tier in a very long time

 

[Astra]

add remove (comments)

Hide

[SET]
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Waterfall
move 3: Facade
move 4: Slack Off / Icicle Crash
item: Flame Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Details
===================

Naviathan is a decent setup sweeper, (RC) being able to break through common walls such as Clefable, Heatran, and Slowking thanks to its combination of Dragon Dance and Guts. However, its lack of good coverage options and middling Speed leave it outclassed by Garchomp and Weavile as a sweeper. Also, the combination of chip from Rocky Helmet users and burn damage from Flame Orb means it quickly gets worn down despite access to Slack Off. Facade provides some much needed coverage against defensive Water-types. After a Dragon Dance, it can OHKO Slowking and 2HKOs Tapu Fini and non-Haze Toxapex. Slack Off keeps Naviathan healthy so that it can get more opportunities to set up, allowing it to take advantage of mostly passive balances teams (i'm assuming this is what you meant? not entirely sure) and remain healthy. Icicle Crash is an option to hit Ferrothorn, 2HKO Zapdos, and OHKO Dragapult, but it leaves Naviathan more susceptible to being revenge killed. A Jolly nature is used to outspeed Choice Scarf Jumbao and Arctozolt in hail after a Dragon Dance.

Naviathan needs its Flame Orb to have activated to effectively wallbreak, so teammates that give it safe switch-ins (AH) and can deter Knock Off are appreciated. Dragapult can pivot with U-turn to bring Naviathan in on Clefable, Heatran, and Tornadus-T. It also can help deal with Arghonaut and Ferrothorn, (AC) which otherwise completely wall Naviathan. Magnezone can trap Ferrothorn and Corviknight and remove them altogether. Rillaboom helps mitigate Naviathan's weakness to Earthquake and picks off weakened targets that Naviathan couldn't KO. It also helps deal with Tapu Fini. Stealth Rock setters like Landorus-T and Heatran and Spikes setters like Astrolotl can help rack up damage to help Naviathan get KOs. Heatran can also act as a Dragapult switch-in (AH) that can also force Ferrothorn out.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Checks and Counters
===================

**Bulky Water-types**: Arghonaut can take any hit from Naviathan and phaze it out with Circle Throw. Toxapex can Haze away remove Naviathan's boosts with Haze and then use Recover to regain all of its HP while Naviathan's HP gets whittled away by its burn. Tapu Fini can come in on Naviathan and deny it its Guts boost with Misty Surge and bring it in range of revenge killers with Nature's Madness. Slowbro shrugs off any hit and can use Body Press to pressure Naviathan.

**Ferrothorn**: Ferrothorn can take on most of Naviathan's hits and use either Leech Seed to recover its HP or Body Press, which 2HKOes it.

**Strong Revenge Killers**: Rillaboom and Revenankh can pick off Naviathan if it's been sufficiently chipped with their strong priority moves. Neither one wants to take a hit from it, though. If Naviathan hasn't boosted itself with Dragon Dance, Zeraora, Urshifu-R, and Garchomp can all threaten to OHKO. Dragapult resists Waterfall and is unaffected by Facade, (AC) so it can threaten it with Shadow Ball, but it must be careful of sets utilizing a coverage move such as Icicle Crash.

**Knock Off**: If Naviathan's Guts isn't active, Tornadus-T, Clefable, and Toxapex can all use Knock Off to remove its Flame Orb, effectively neutering it.


[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Lasen, 273339]]
- Quality checked by: [[Rabia, 336073], [dex, 277988]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ]]

1/1