NBA Draft 2020

[emma]

The 2020 NBA Draft Order is officially set. ITT post any hot takes about prospects, who your favorite team should take, or anything relating to the upcoming NBA Draft on Friday, October 16.

I'll start us off. Here's the final version of my Big Board:

 

[tennisace]

wiseman at 22 is a scalding hot take, care to share that one? not going to say whether or not it's wrong but i haven't seen a big board with him out of the top 10, and he's in play as 1OA (tho only if minn trades out for some reason).

edit: now that the draft order is set i think based on need and not taking trades into account it goes:

1. timberwolves - edwards
2. warriors - wiseman
3. hornets - okongwu
4. bulls - okoro
5. cleveland - vassell
6. hawks - avija
7. pistons - ball
8. knicks - hayes (because lol knicks)
9-whenever: crapshoot

 

[emma]

wiseman at 22 is a scalding hot take, care to share that one? not going to say whether or not it's wrong but i haven't seen a big board with him out of the top 10, and he's in play as 1OA (tho only if minn trades out for some reason).

Sure, no problem.

My main problem is he's lacking general offensive & defense awareness / feel for the game. For example, he often misses easy kickout passes out of the Pick and Roll and will instead go up with a super contested layup or take a dumb 17 foot turnover jumper. Overall, he's pretty bad at making (quick) decisions with the ball in the hand which is a huge loss. If you've been watching the Trial Blazers lately, the offensive drop off from Jusuf Nurkic to Hassan Whiteside is huge because Nurkic is a good decision maker while Whiteside is not. Trapping Dame Lillard becomes a lot easier when the center isn't a big threat with the ball in his hands from a playmaking standpoint.

He's a really undisciplined defender (even for his young age) and tries to block every shot despite him being 7'1 and easily able to contest them. He's going to be forced to play drop coverage in the PnR which can definitely work, but is not optimal come playoff time and you're facing player who can hit pull-up 3s like it's nothing (see: Celtics/Sixers series).

His only real offensive value is going to come from rim running / lob catching (also post-ups if you want to give him those touches). To be fair to him, he rim runs very well and is a solid finisher in the paint. Although he's shown a willingness to shoot 3s / jumpers in general, the results aren't there. There were also all catch and shoot 3s, so I see no real future where he's creating his own shot on the perimeter.

Being a big who 1. can't defend the rim 2. struggles to switch / contain on the perimeter 3. isn't a dominant post player and 4. isn't a good decision maker at all does not bode well for success.

One of my least favorite Wiseman stats: In 21 EYBL games between April 2018 and July 2018, James Wiseman averaged 15.2 points on 52.7% true shooting.

Here are some solid articles on Wiseman that convey the same message I am.
https://fansided.com/2019/10/08/james-wiseman-flawed-weaknesses/
https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/11...ry-talent-theo-maledon-jeremiah-robinson-earl

Also, I talked with Ununhexium on Discord about some of my other takes. Here's what I said in my defense.

Grant Riller

[10:36 PM] GreenGogoat: on riller
[10:36 PM] GreenGogoat: he shot shot 451-647 at the rim in college w/ only 44 dunks
[10:37 PM] GreenGogoat: one of the best shot creators in college basketball
[10:37 PM] GreenGogoat: 70% at the rim w/ >15% assisted is absurd
[10:38 PM] GreenGogoat: such dominant college production

Cole Anthony

[10:41 PM] GreenGogoat: basically the flashes w cole are potentially elite pull up shooting, solid finishing beside burst issues (dont think numbers do him justice in that area), played at a poor unc team, dominated at lower levels
[10:42 PM] GreenGogoat: https://uproxx.com/dimemag/cole-anthony-2020-nba-draft-profile-analysis/
[10:42 PM] GreenGogoat: heres a really good article my friend wrote
[10:42 PM] GreenGogoat: https://rjfranzen.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/cole-anthony-scouting-report/
[10:43 PM] GreenGogoat: hes def a comboguard
[10:44 PM] GreenGogoat: his season at unc was not the best representation of him IMO
[10:44 PM] GreenGogoat: like outta high school/aau he was considered a top 1-2 prospect
[10:45 PM] GreenGogoat: that was also a much larger sample than 22 games at unc

Aleksej Pokuševski

[10:45 PM] GreenGogoat: poku does some things no other 18 year old should be able to
[10:46 PM] GreenGogoat: movement shooting, wild passing finishes
[10:46 PM] GreenGogoat: ridic amount of stocks
[10:46 PM] GreenGogoat: dominated the same level giannis did :eyes:
[10:46 PM] GreenGogoat: he's just so out there
[10:46 PM] GreenGogoat: of course he would be really bad
[10:46 PM] GreenGogoat: but those flashes he showed,,,,

Tyrese Maxey

[10:48 PM] GreenGogoat: i LOVE maxey
[10:49 PM] GreenGogoat: high level finisher for a guard, good shooting projections (poor 3PT% (33/113, 29.2%) but elite touch and FT% (100/120, 83.3%)), solid passer within the offense, elite off-ball defender while solid poa but stock #s are concerning
[10:49 PM] GreenGogoat: https://rjfranzen.wordpress.com/2020/05/12/tyrese-maxey-scouting-report/
[10:50 PM] GreenGogoat: "Shooting: Good shooting projection — poor 3PT% (33/113, 29.2%) but elite touch and FT% (100/120, 83.3%). Showed dynamic shooting ability with pull-up 2s, step-back 3s, and off-movement 3s (projects the best due to ability to get set quickly off a screen, Calipari also called off-movement 3s for him). Feel confident in C&S ability at the NBA level with potentially off-movement as well."

 

[Ununhexium]

hello gang,

i still think that GSW is gonna trade down in the draft as i don't really think that wiseman is the guy to fit their system at their positional need (center) and with the amount of players that i'm not sure they will stick with long-term (andrew wiggins, eric paschall) and they still have the core of steph curry / klay thompson / draymond green that they could try to add a star to and immediately shoot to the top of power rankings and championship contention. i think their play might be to trade away their pick + wiggins or paschall for a known quantity that can contribute immediately and move down and take someone like deni avdija / saddiq bey / devin vassell or someone even later like xavier tillman or jalen smith

 

[phoopes]

yeah I'm with you, I will be absolutely shocked if the Warriors don't trade the pick + Wiggins for an immediate contributor. As for a potential trading partner, I have no clue as of right now, but because they're the Warriors I expect whatever move they make to trigger everyone and make them the top pick for the championship next year lol

 

[Stallion]

wiseman at 22 is a scalding hot take, care to share that one? not going to say whether or not it's wrong but i haven't seen a big board with him out of the top 10, and he's in play as 1OA (tho only if minn trades out for some reason).

edit: now that the draft order is set i think based on need and not taking trades into account it goes:

1. timberwolves - edwards
2. warriors - wiseman
3. hornets - okongwu
4. bulls - okoro
5. cleveland - vassell
6. hawks - avija
7. pistons - ball
8. knicks - hayes (because lol knicks)
9-whenever: crapshoot

Here's my take. Hayes is going to be a stud and is my favourite prospect in this draft class. The Knicks aren't a smart enough franchise to take him, but conversely I think it'd be wild if he falls out of the top five. He shouldn't go any lower than 4 imo, he'd be a nice fit in Chicago if they think that Coby White is more of a 2 guard than a 1.

 

[DiscoDucky]

IMO Knicks taking Hayes or Haliburton would be the best situation. There's no way we can get LaMelo (not that I'd want him), and RJ Hampton is a literal locker room cancer.

 

[Stallion]

IMO Knicks taking Hayes or Haliburton would be the best situation. There's no way we can get LaMelo (not that I'd want him), and RJ Hampton is a literal locker room cancer.

I think Haliburton is more of a realistic get for the Knicks and I'm a big fan of his too.

If Hayes somehow fell though, he'd be your dream pick.

 

[Lord Ninjax]

been following draft stuff infrequently but pulled myself together to come up w a rough tiering list aswell as a lottery mock and some thoughts about things that might happen (trades and what have you). honestly w the way this draft is shaping up I fully expect all my predictions to be completely wrong just because of the unprecedented climate as well as how strange this draft looked going in (all potential top3 picks have massive bust potential, a lot of lottery picks have question mark, range of value and upside between like 20th and 45th prospect is pretty flat). if anyone wants to discuss any of these takes I'd be glad to talk about them a bit.

tier list

tier 1: killian hayes, anthony edwards, deni avdija, onyeka okongwu
tier 2: tyrese maxey, patrick williams, devin vassell, cole anthony, obi toppin, aleksej pokusevski, leandro bolmaro, lamelo ball, james wiseman, tyrell terry
tier 3: tyrese haliburton, isaac okoro, theo maledon, desmond bane, kira lewis jr, precious achiuwa, saddiq bey, xavier tillman, josh green, aaron nesmith
tier 4: jalen smith, devon dotson, grant riller, (edit - rj hampton :v), malachi flynn, jaden mcdaniels, paul reed, killian tillie, tyler bey, robert woodard ii
tier 5: jah'mius ramsay, elijah hughes, isaiah stewart, isaiah joe, mason jones, tre jones, zeke nnaji, yam madar, cassius winston
tier 6: cassius stanley, peyton pritchard, immanuel quickley, nico mannion, skylar mayes, mamadi diakite, jordan nwora, karim mane

this turns out to be my top 50, plus or minus a few guys like tyshon alexander and nate hinton (who will probably go undrafted because 'lack of upside' even though they're both solid 3-and-d guys who do the dirty work that goes towards winning, the kind of players that every team needs)

lottery mock

timberwolves: edwards
warriors: avdija
hornets: wiseman
bulls: ball
cavaliers: okongwu
hawks: haliburton
pistons: williams
knicks: toppin
wizards: okoro
suns: hayes
spurs: vassell
kings: bey
pelicans: lewis jr
celtics: hampton (*laugh track plays*)

things that I think could happen

- apparently wolves are interested in not only trading out of number #1 but also buying the #6 pick from atlanta, which I think becomes a lot more likely if say charlotte overpays to have a shot at wiseman and gives the wolves additional pieces that they can flip.
- apparently the suns and thunder are discussing a chris paul deal, so the #10 pick might end up in okc and be used to select a really high upside player like pokusevski.
- spurs could trade up to target someone like patrick williams if they were willing to include a young piece; idt that they will but the possibility exists and there's definitely teams that are looking to trade down.
- wizards could either trade up to target a home-run swing like lamelo or deal their pick in a sign-and-trade to target an impact player - heard rumors of them considering both paths and neither would surprise me.
- celtics probably fail to move up despite offering all three of their picks to do so. ya hate to see it. warriors also fail to trade down from #2 because idt that it's enough to buy them the impact player that they want (esp if the other team is also being forced to eat wiggins' salary) and so they settle for taking avdija, which is a win because I for one think avdija is just the player they need.

 

[DiscoDucky]

Knicks are in desperate need of a PG, and I think they'll probably take Haliburton.

Also, thank god you left off RJ Hampton on your tier list.

 

[Lord Ninjax]

Knicks are in desperate need of a PG, and I think they'll probably take Haliburton.

Also, thank god you left off RJ Hampton on your tier list.

knicks are in desperate need true but I don't think haliburton falls to them unless atlanta trades out of #6 - in terms of what he does he just seems like the perfect low-risk fit for that team as a secondary playmarker and floor spacer who can run the second unit when trae sits. as far as other pgs go...ball almost certainly goes before #8 (though it'd be hilarious if he fell and the knicks landed him), kira lewis jr isn't a top10 pick, and the knicks aren't smart enough to take killian hayes. so they draft obi toppin as a skilled offensive big man who just so happens to be represented by caa, airmail a suitcase full of cash to fred vanvleet only to watch him resign in toronto, try and fail to swing a deal for westbrook and wind up settling for ricky rubio to faciliate chris paul's likely move to phoenix. sounds depressing, but this is the knicks we're talking about.

also I wish I was that cold but I had hampton at like tier 4 and then accidentally deleted his name, that's probably my b LOL. I will acknowledge though that he's talented and he goes late in the lottery just because he's the textbook danny ainge pick (highly touted high school player whose stock dropped, undersized lead guard, locker room cancer, that's 3 for 3)

 

[DiscoDucky]

knicks are in desperate need true but I don't think haliburton falls to them unless atlanta trades out of #6 - in terms of what he does he just seems like the perfect low-risk fit for that team as a secondary playmarker and floor spacer who can run the second unit when trae sits. as far as other pgs go...ball almost certainly goes before #8 (though it'd be hilarious if he fell and the knicks landed him), kira lewis jr isn't a top10 pick, and the knicks aren't smart enough to take killian hayes. so they draft obi toppin as a skilled offensive big man who just so happens to be represented by caa, airmail a suitcase full of cash to fred vanvleet only to watch him resign in toronto, try and fail to swing a deal for westbrook and wind up settling for ricky rubio to faciliate chris paul's likely move to phoenix. sounds depressing, but this is the knicks we're talking about.

also I wish I was that cold but I had hampton at like tier 4 and then accidentally deleted his name, that's probably my b LOL. I will acknowledge though that he's talented and he goes late in the lottery just because he's the textbook danny ainge pick (highly touted high school player whose stock dropped, undersized lead guard, locker room cancer, that's 3 for 3)

Was reading an article earlier about Knicks leaning toward Kira Lewis, so their draft strategy might be to take a PG at 27.