Tournament NDPL IV - Format Discussion

[Steorra]

art coming soon

Hi everyone, with NDPL IV coming up, I would like to open a discussion on the format of the tournament, particularly the tiers to be played.

Last year's tiers:
NatDex OU x3
NatDex Monotype
NatDex UU
NatDex RU
NatDex AG
NatDex Bo3 (OU/UU/AG)

Tiers from this year's World Cup:
NatDex OU x4
SS NatDex OU x2
NatDex Monotype
NatDex Ubers

Tiers to choose from:
NatDex OU
SS NatDex OU
NatDex UU
NatDex RU
NatDex DOU
NatDex Ubers
NatDex Monotype

Neither of these formats necessarily have to be used, and we're open to other suggestions as well. Please let us know your thoughts!

 

[Vladimir Capuchin]

Im doing Natdex OU, Natdex DOU and ehh maybe natdex UU

 

[Autistic Soviet]

Wcop format or one of each sv tier

 

[sealoo]

There was some discussion in nd cord about this, and I thought the idea of the format as follows would be fun, although it would be 10 slots instead of the normal 8.

SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDUU
SV NDRU
SV NDUBERS
SV NDMONO
SV ND DOU

If it were to be 8, i’d like the see the same as above excluding ND DOU and 1 SS NDOU slot. I think Isza intially brought up this format so credit to him.

 

[Steorra]

for what its worth I mostly put the WC format here as a point of reference, i would rather not reuse the exact same format for another teamtour.

also brief descriptions for choices will be appreciated.

 

[pannu]

x3 SV ND
x2 ss
Ubers
Mono
Dou/Ru/uu/double up on one of mono or ubers

sv nd is the most popular nd tier, x2 ss worked great in wc and has enough of a playerbase to have competitive slots, ubers and mono are good

I'm not gonna pretend ik abt dou / uu / ru but one of them whichever is the most popular & competitive would be good, if all 3 suck and are unproven the idt doubling up on mono or ubers is a bad idea, slight preference to mono.

no bo3 plz bo3 in team tours is cringe

 

[Mada]

3x sv ou
1x of each but dou/ru

 

[Batzi]

4x SV ND
2x SS ND
1x Ubers
1x Monotype
1x DOU ND/RU ND
1x UU

I believe there is easily a large enough playerbase to allow for 10 tiers to be played and it would be more enjoyable with more games to prep for and play as well as allowing more tiers to play in it.

 

[georgebowserjr]

So for NDPL this year, if we decide to keep 8 slots, here is one good option to go from here in my opinion.

8 Slot Idea
SV SV SV SS UU RU Mono Ubers (shoutouts to Isza for giving the idea)
I think the main goal is to have 3 SV tiers, at least 1 SS tier, 1 Ubers and then the others for tier spotlight.

10 Slot Idea
If we decided to be really cool, we could go for 10 slots this year.

SV SV SV SS SS UU RU Mono Ubers Doubles

This gives SV 3 tiers, allows the chance for all the given tiers to be played and gives SS a nice needed extra.

 

[Velcroc]

Free 10 slots ngl

10 slots
SV SV SV SS SS UU RU Mono Ubers Doubles

Gives representation to all the tiers. The only issue I see with this is that it makes things trickier for managers having to balance 5 OUs with 5 non-OUs both in the auction and during the season. But, it's nothing insurmountable.

8 slots
3x SV
1x SS
1x UU
1x RU / DOU
1x Mono
1x Ubers


This is how I would imagine an 8-slot format to look like. The main issue with an 8-slot format is that you will have to drop one of RU or DOU since realistically those are the odd ones out. Going with RU for now.

Those to me seem like the 2 main options. So far, no one has challenged the 10-man options so I'm curious what the criticisms are.

 

[Bka Onon]

Alright thoughts time
After playing NDWC, i feel like that's a good base to start (it being SV x4 SS x2 Mono Ubers)

Let's see if 8 Slots:

SV NDOU x3
SS NDOU x1
SV NDUU x1
SV NDM x1
SV NDUbers x1
SV NDDOU x1

OR remove NDUU and make SS NDOU x2 or SV NDOU x4

On the 10 Slot idea, it seems plausible:

SV NDOU x4
SS NDOU x2
SV NDM x1
SV NDUbers x1
SV NDDOU x1
SV NDUU x1

Only things I really see changing from WC format are the inclusion of NDDOU since it got released and offers a completely diff experience from any of the singles tiers, and maybe including NDUU now since it's no longer as fucked up in tiering as it was during the time or WC
I'm not the biggest fan of including NDRU in PL since it's about the same situation as NDUU was in WC but if it has to be, so should be NDUU which will most likely result in the removal of NDDOU.

Yea that's all I have to say tbh
Free NDLC

 

[Isza]

I believe the best format is 8 slots.

So for NDPL this year, if we decide to keep 8 slots, here is one good option to go from here in my opinion.

8 Slot Idea
SV SV SV SS UU RU Mono Ubers (shoutouts to Isza for giving the idea)
I think the main goal is to have 3 SV tiers, at least 1 SS tier, 1 Ubers and then the others for tier spotlight.

10 Slot Idea
If we decided to be really cool, we could go for 10 slots this year.

SV SV SV SS SS UU RU Mono Ubers Doubles

This gives SV 3 tiers, allows the chance for all the given tiers to be played and gives SS a nice needed extra.

With 3 SV you have enough CG representation, and 1 SS as a popular old gen that will field players. The rest are lower tiers(Ubers>AG) which have always had their shine in NDPL.

10 slots is possible however I'm not completely sold on doubles + don't want to just include it to have a 2nd SS. If Smudge can make a case for it I wouldn't see an issue on inclusion, although 8 slots is my go to option.

 

[Smudge]

Regarding slot numbers, I strongly prefer the 10 slot idea proposed by George so all tiers can be included as it gives the most representation, and truly makes it a community event. If managers are worried about not knowing who to draft for this tier, I am very happy to assist with that.

On the benefits of including Doubles:

We have a large and very skilled playerbase to pull from. Despite the ND DOU Discord itself being somewhat small, it's quite active + we have the Smogon Doubles server to advertise to as well. Our Doubles format is not significantly mechanically different from any other Doubles tier and is easy to pick up. This is proven by the fact that we've had multiple long time accomplished players pick up the tier and enjoy it immensely such as JRL (top 10 all time Doubles player) and Nido-Rus (Official Smogon Doubles Tour winner + another top 10 all time player) won our kickoff tour.

In our first tiering survey, the tier scored a 4.25/5 for enjoyment and 3.78/5 for balance. We've addressed one of the issues that was strongly impacting the balance score, and are on the lookout for anything problematic that pops up during the aforementioned tour that the tier is included in.

The tier is very competitive, people enjoy building it given that there are so many options (like any NatDex tier!), and the games are exciting to watch. It also provides an opportunity for a new part of the community to integrate into the broader NatDex community.

In the span of 4 months (the tier was created in early April), we went from zero to not only having a permanent ladder on PS! with 38k games played in the first month matching the activity level of UU.

We also completely turned around the common sentiment that there was not much interest in the format in the Smogon Doubles community, and was popular and fun enough for it to be included in the ongoing Doubles Derby team tour featuring tiers that weren't included in the Doubles Premier League, and filled the void in National Dex where people were asking for the format to be created for quite a long time.

Considering all of this, I think it would be a disservice to the community to not have it included in NDPL.

 

[Runo]

8 Slots

SV OU
SV OU
SS OU
SV UU
SV RU
SV MONO
SV UBER
SV DOUBLES / SS OU / SV OU

10 Slots

SV OU
SV OU
SV OU
SS OU
SS OU
SV UU
SV RU
SV MONO
SV UBER
SV DOUBLES

I see people suggesting to exclude UU and RU again which I find disappointing since NDPL is supposed to be those meta's chance to have team tour play, especially since they were excluded in NDWC mainly under the excuse that WC should be OU focused and to just wait for NDPL. Well now we're here so what's the reason to exclude them now? These metagames are no longer in the volatile states they were months ago and are arguably more balanced and more enjoyable than SV OU based off player surveys [UU, RU]. So it would be a disservice to both the tiers I council for if I didn't advocate for their addition to NDPL. Like at least give them a chance guys.

Anyways, I strongly agree with the 10 slot idea since it gives every NatDex tier (minus the OMs) an opportunity for high level tournament play, while still maintaining a satisfactory amount of SV OU and SS OU slots so everybody wins. The 8 slot idea I had is probably controversial admittedly, but the plan is more to maximize the amount of unique tiers included with the last slot being one of the three picked listed above, but I'm heavily favoring Doubles because 1. I think non-OU tiers should be the focus anyways and 2. Smudge made great points about the state of the tier and its prospects, its more than qualified to be included in NDPL.

 

[hi.naming is hard]

8 slots:
NatDex OU*3
SS NatDex OU
NatDex UU
NatDex DOU
NatDex Ubers
NatDex RU

10 slots:
NatDex OU*4
SS NatDex OU*2
NatDex UU
NatDex DOU
NatDex Ubers
NatDex RU

 

[TTK]

8 slots:
NatDex OU*3
SS NatDex OU
NatDex UU
NatDex DOU
NatDex Ubers
NatDex RU

10 slots:
NatDex OU*4
SS NatDex OU*2
NatDex UU
NatDex DOU
NatDex Ubers
NatDex RU

Hi I don't wanna be that guy but not including NatDex Mono in this tour is crazy to me when it was in NDWC and also been a mainstay since NDPL II. Odds are NDM makes it in.

Either way, I agree with the 10 slot situation in order to include all tiers, something like what Velcroc, georgebowserjr and Runo have suggested. I am of the opinion that every non-OU format should get their time to shine and Smudge made a good post for advocating Doubles and showing their passion to the format. I also don't see any particular drawback to 10 slots, I don't particularly think most of these tiers are lacking good players (ND Doubles is recent and I'm not going to act like ik the doubles playerbase) someone could obviously present reasonings to why 8 slots is better and I'll weigh my thoughts again, if that time comes.

 

[Oculars]

10 Slots is the correct idea
4x SV OU
2x SS OU
SV MONO
SV UU
SV UBERS
BO3 (SVOU/SSOU/SVUBERS) or some other variation of BO3

 

[Steorra]

We've opted to go ahead with this format for this year's NDPL:

SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SV NDOU
SS NDOU
SS NDOU
SV NDUU
SV NDRU
SV NDUBERS
SV NDMONO
SV ND DOU

We feel 10 slots can be supported and should at least be tried this year to maximize the inclusivity of our tiers. Expect Manager signups soon!
Also our hosts for this year's NDPL are Theia and maroon!