Tournament NDWC II - Location Polling, Tiers Discussion, and Tour Format Discussion

[dhelmise]

First thing's first: Before doing anything else, please fill out this google form: https://forms.gle/3STWiadH4AdBNaij8

here's a map of us regions in case u are confused

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Now that we're past that, I'd like to quickly say hi! TylerTheMilotic and myself will be hosting this year's iteration of National Dex World Cup. Before we start manager signups and stuff, there's a few elements of the tournament that we need to work out.

Firstly, the tiers. There's been discussion of going with all NatDex OU or making the tour more NatDex OU-centric; however, we want to hear everyone's input. As a baseline, We are going to put a hard minimum to 3 NatDex OU. Ideally, we are going to have 8 slots per team this year, but that is also open to discussion. Here is what we had last year:

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National Dex OU
National Dex OU
National Dex UU
National Dex AG
National Dex Monotype
Best of 3 [OU / UU / AG] [Game 1 will be OU, loser picks G2]

We believe the community has grown to a point where we can have 8 slots. Thus, we are proposing the following for this year:

• National Dex OU #1
• National Dex OU #2
• National Dex OU #3
• National Dex OU #4
• National Dex UU
• National Dex AG
• National Dex Monotype
• Bo3 [OU / UU / AG / Monotype] [Game 1 will be OU, loser picks G2] -- this is still a Bo3; however, now people can opt into picking Monotype instead of AG or UU, for example.

We'd love to hear feedback and suggestions on this format.

Now that we've gone over the tiers, we'd like to address the format of the tournament itself. Last year, we used a two-sided format with mini round robins in each side. This format works on paper, but it's not very exciting (imo at least). Thus, I'd like to propose that we move forward with a similar two-sided format, but instead of running mini round robins in both sides, we have a pools stage. A good example of this in action can be seen with OMWC IV. Basically, an advantage of this means we can have 8/10/12/any even number of regions (in moderation ofc) participate in the first part of NDWC II. I also believe that a pools stage makes the first half of the tournament more proactive, but that might just me. Anyway, feel free to comment on this as well.

 

[adem]

3 ou, 1 uu, 1 ru, 1 ag, 1 mono, 1 bo3

Personally I think RU should be an addition this WC just due to how much it has boomed, and with its recent feature in RU Snake Draft, it has gotten quite a bit of attention outside of the ND community, and including it in NDWC can further bolster the metagame’s popularity outside of NatDex. Altho I like OU, I think 4 OU is a tad bit too much, and could make it a bit stale. I also dont see why Mono should be in BO3, for one it does not make sense for a BO3 player to prepare 4 teams, and Monotype as a meta is very different from OU / UU / AG so idt it wld make sense for these players to also have to play Mono.

4ou is also fine assuming udw to include ru, but please dont add mono to bo3 ty. also pools r woat + boring fuck pools

 

[Isza]

3 ou, 1 uu, 1 ru, 1 ag, 1 mono, 1 bo3

Personally I think RU should be an addition this WC just due to how much it has boomed, and with its recent feature in RU Snake Draft, it has gotten quite a bit of attention outside of the ND community, and including it in NDWC can further bolster the metagame’s popularity outside of NatDex. Altho I like OU, I think 4 OU is a tad bit too much, and could make it a bit stale. I also dont see why Mono should be in BO3, for one it does not make sense for a BO3 player to prepare 4 teams, and Monotype as a meta is very different from OU / UU / AG so idt it wld make sense for these players to also have to play Mono.

4ou is also fine assuming udw to include ru, but please dont add mono to bo3 ty. also pools r woat + boring fuck pools

Basically sums up what I wanted to say, wouldn't be opposed to ND RU if it's gotten exposure in other tournaments. Bo3 should not include Monotype, one slot is enough.

3 OU, UU, RU, MONO, AG, BO3

Also nothings wrong with the format in the OP.

 

[pannu]

I think using wc to experiment with format stuff / tiers is a good thing, I.e last year was the first time ndmono was featured in a natdex team tour, so I don't see why we shouldn't let ru be in this year's wc. It's not like any team would struggle with slotting in a player either, ru snake exposed alot of people to the tier and AFAIK ru mainers like the tier.

In the same vein, idt trying out mono in bo3 is a bad choice either, I don't have much to say abt it cuz I don't feel very strongly about the topic but Def give it a shot.

Tl;dr:
Ou
Ou
Ou
Mono
Uu
Ru
Ag
Bo3 with mono

 

[Jordy]

Not necessarily posting in support of or against NatDex RU, though I personally do not think it should be slotted in, but it doesn't seem like the RU playerbase has any significant attachment to it.

 

[Mac3]

Not necessarily posting in support of or against NatDex RU, though I personally do not think it should be slotted in, but it doesn't seem like the RU playerbase has any significant attachment to it.

View attachment 415253

I think that there would be interest from the ss ru playerbase in ND RU, I know for sure i would have it atleast.

 

[Dorron]

3 OU-UU-RU-Mono-AG-BO3 (OU-UU-RU)


ND RU is a great tier that would really love metagame development which is exactly what this tour would provide. Adding it to the BO3 instead of AG because I think the tier isn't that balanced. If you want to include Mono to BO3, add AG aswell (which would mean every single tier from the tour in the BO3).

 

[Revenge Killer]

• National Dex OU #1
• National Dex OU #2
• National Dex OU #3
• National Dex OU #4
• National Dex UU
• National Dex AG
• National Dex Monotype
• National dex Custom game
  
  Scheduling and prepping for bo3 last edition was very painful and needed a lot of work, so instead I would like to introduce custom game, a fun format where every week all the teams here must have some premises, like bringing the same team (you can change the sets to cteam), using 1 uber, first to kill 1 fairy type (for example) wins (this requires to bring a minimum of 1 fairy type to the battle)... and more fun ideas. Just dont put bo3 again because is an horrible format imo

 

[Steorra]

posting as my personal opinion on the matter

4 ou 1 uu 1 ag 1 mono 1 bo3 (OU UU AG for now at least)

Just some short thoughts I had while reading through posts here so far,

I wouldnt support RU at this time. Would like to point out that NDRU has had multiple chances to capitalize on the opportunities given to it but never actually did, Natdex Crown tournament and more importantly RU Snake Draft went by and next to no developments in the tier besides one tiering action and minimal discussion on it (the thread essentially was dead for the entirety of Snake). Overall the thread hasn't been super consistently active and I have high doubts anything would change if we choose to feature it in WC. Maybe if the community was a bit more active given all the resources they've had so far I could see it but otherwise I don't see much reason to include it, at least in this edition. Similarly, 4 OU sounds a bit hard to field but can't really think of anything else to make this 8 slots. Would love to hear more non RU alternatives from other people.

Specifically for the Bo3 slot I feel a bit weird having four tiers in it, with at least one tier and one team prepped just never used. OU UU AG has been the staple 3 for our teamtours thus far and its always worked out well so I won't mind it seeing a return but not outright ruling out mono as a potential thing either. Idk if its just me on this but id feel weird if Monotype was used to determine the game for a bo3 series like this as well but ultimately have mixed feelings on what the bo3 slot should be. Just kniw that I would rule out the four tiers option for sure.

Dont have much of an opinion on the format either, never played a pools tour before so i wont mind trying it or if someone has another format in mind, when i managed last year I dont think there was anything objectively wrong with the format used then, if anything maybe due to the lack of teams it felt a bit short but yea don't mind either.

 

[Ryuji]

3 OU - UU - RU - AG - Mono - OU Threat / Suspect Slot OU

BO3 is a very awful slot, echoing what Revenge Killer said it's painful at the schedule, at the prep and even when you play your games, because AG is like a coinflip MU game, which isn't really balanced imo.

Instead of custom games I'd like to introduce something more specific, for people that know Monotype it's similar to Monothreat where both players have to bring the same type. Here, you have to bring the same mon, which is choosed by the TD. The reason why i'm submitting this is because whenever i played threat in different tiers it was always a very good experience, it's a bit like a DL slot so you can try basically whatever you want, with fun techs. Usually the games are fun to watch and very cool overall.

The other idea (even if it's a bit outdated cuz well MBlazi sus already started lul) would have been a suspect slot. The reason why is because well, testing Mblazi in ladder doesn't really shows how broken it could be considering ladd sucks, and even if friendlies are good ways to the issue i have is that people doesn't share replays on the thread, it's very 'on paper' things and actually doesn't help people that don't have strong opinions towards MChicken. So tournaments games at a good level should give substance to those. Even if well as i said it's kind of outdated now i'm still submitting the idea for futur test/retest.

Im also in favor of adding NDRU, tier is very cool to build and play, and need meta development. I feel like the tier isn't that hard to learn and there's a lot of ressources. I do agree tho, with the fact that they should have capitalize on the crown cup and ru snake to develop their tier, but during the first iteration of the world cup, ND UU was very very recent. Even if the tier started 'officialy' when the smogon thread appeared, NDRU has more than an year, enough ressources and playerbase to be added as a slot.

 

[Snak]

3 ou, 1 uu, 1 ru, 1 ag, 1 mono, 1 bo3

Personally I think RU should be an addition this WC just due to how much it has boomed, and with its recent feature in RU Snake Draft, it has gotten quite a bit of attention outside of the ND community, and including it in NDWC can further bolster the metagame’s popularity outside of NatDex. Altho I like OU, I think 4 OU is a tad bit too much, and could make it a bit stale. I also dont see why Mono should be in BO3, for one it does not make sense for a BO3 player to prepare 4 teams, and Monotype as a meta is very different from OU / UU / AG so idt it wld make sense for these players to also have to play Mono.

4ou is also fine assuming udw to include ru, but please dont add mono to bo3 ty. also pools r woat + boring fuck pools

I agree with adem cuz in adem, we trust

 

[Milo]

Thank you everyone for their input into our tier lineup and submission on the regions document!

Our official tier lineup will be the following;

• National Dex OU
• National Dex OU
• National Dex OU
• National Dex OU
• National Dex UU
• National Dex AG
• National Dex Monotype
• Best of 3 [OU / UU / AG] [Game 1 will be OU, loser picks G2]

As for regions, we are still currently undecided on the official team lineup, however we are proposing this lineup;

• France
• Europe
• India
• Asia + Oceania
• Spain
• UK
• US North East + US South + South America
• US West + Midwest + Canada

This is subject to change by the time Manager Signups go out on the 17th.