New Battler,Sandstorm based team theorizing, help welcome (standard)

Ffancrzy

Ffancrzy

Hello, I'm Mister Militia. I'll save any introduction past that, as I have a more detailed one as my signature for the time being, and I am anxious for opinions, though I will add, that being new I have started with move sets and pokemon I have read about, but added a twist based on the compilation of the team.

Also note that this team is for Wifi, but I do not have any IV data as of yet as I am still getting acclimated to breeding for them and as of now just settle for sometimes only mediocre IVs.


As the title says this team is based around Sand Storm and the ability sand stream. Every Pokemon on my team is resistant to its effects, but in an attempt to avoid a lopsidedly typed team that is weak to common types and moves namely Beam, EQ, and Surf, I've attempted to incorporate some cleaver dual typing to eliminate more prominent type disadvantages while at the same time allowing for different team roles to be filled.

Changes In Bold

Now for the Lead.

248.png
Tyranitar @Lum Berry
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 168 SpA / 24 Spe
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam

This lead, at least as a pokemon should be obvious as the rest of my team unfolds, I need a sandstorm up in order to succeed. However, the use of the "boah" variant in which you guys are probably much more familiar with than I is not a readily apparent. The reason is in part, as a lead I need a move set that allows me to set up, and substitute does that. Ice Beam along with Evs in Sp.Atk allows me to put a dent in some dragons as well as having a slightly less than predictable move pool with physical attacks being slightly more prevalent in OU. Additionally with the newly added berry, this set can take out gengar leads with dark pulse if it tries to hypnosis as well as ruin potential hypnosis attempts from bronzong with a sub as well as crobat with the berry, allowing for a sub to set up. Focus punch is for the nasty Blissey that wanders about foiling my plans.


450.png
Garchomp @ Bright powder (If allowed in "Standard Battles?") Salac Berry
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Outrage

Wow, what an evasion noob you're thinking. Well, sand veil is too good to pass up. Ironically, with me being new, 'Chomp was the last addition to my still in theory team as I didn't want to use a completely worn out group of pokemon and I didn't realize it had sand veil. However upon this realization it made this set more fresh so I didn't feel like I was doing the same old thing. The idea is to sub up, dance, and sweep. Especially with bright powder (again if allowed) or the speed boost from the berry, this can border on completely unfair. However there are a few minor details. As Chomp has the lovely 4x ice weakness, any pokemon brought in to counter it is fairly common. However the berry can allow a speed boost if the Bright Powder isn't allowed.

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Shuckle @Leftovers
Ability:Sturdy
Nature:Impish
EVs:252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SpDef
-Encore
-Knock Off
-Stealth Rock?
-Rest

Shuckle? Oh yes you better believe it. This mutha can take a hit. He gets rocks down, knocks of leftovers making the sand take its hold. In said storm his Sp.Def is completely unfair. his def is nothing to sneeze at either, especially with a great base and the Evs. Rest also lets him absorb status while at the same time healing. Encore allows for free switches for my big nasty land shark as well.

332.png
Cacturn @Leftovers
Ability:Sand Veil
Nature:Adamant
EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe
-Substitute
-Focus Punch
-Leech Seed
-Sucker Punch

Realizing I needed another hard hitting pokemon I took a look at the suggested Cacturn. Not only does he have sand veil hax, but also totes another draining move Leech Seed. I at first worried that its lack of speed or defenses would be a problem but I realized that shuckle can help with encore. I pritty much need a good encore, possibly on something like an opposing T-tar DD, a swords dance from a variety of pokemon, or any move i can manage to encore that will do little damage, I then switch in to this bad boy, sub up and either focus punch, sucker punch, or perhaps more importantly for this team add a leach seed to the growing list of draining status ailments that I can inflict. This is also a great switch on opposing blissey, which only garchomp had a chance to kill without any assistance, in this case, it could very well add to a free sub.

145.png
Zapdos @Leftovers
Nature:Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpD / 36 Spe
-Thunderbolt
-Roost
-Roar
-Toxic (or thunder wave)
Defensive set allows me to add toxic to the long list of draining moves and effects on my opponent (Rocks and sandstorm plus knock off). T-bolt to help with the water types that may threaten. Roost for recovery while my opponent suffers. and roar to toxishuffle and help rocks do there job. this can also take a solid hit that may be aimed at my less special defense oriented crew as well as absorb an Earthquake aimed at my team. Leftovers aid in recovery. I may, with the new addition of cacturn see if thunder wave would be a better choice here as the speed help could allow for good subs.

385.png
Jirachi @Leftovers
Nature: Docile (this should be bold, but i unfortunately only have access to this or a hindering nature)
EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spe
-Calm Mind
-Wish?
-Psychic
-Thunder
Ummm..no segue? Well straight into it. I am a big fan of CM. And Jirachi. so its only natural. Thunders additional power makes up for the lack of special attack EVs although the more accurate Thunderbolt could be a choice here as Jirachi can't afford to miss, but that may change. Wish is good and allows for softer switches and healing of others like Tyranitar or Chomp,however substitute is used another possibility. Psychic is for STAB, CM for great stats and in conjunction with some hefty defenses and sandstorm support it can wear a team down.


The Old Pokemon

Skarmory@Leftovers
Nature:Impish EVs:252 HP / 96 Atk / 156 Def / 4 Spe
-Brave Bird ?
-Spikes ?
-Roost
-Roar

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Nature: Calm Evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot
-Roar

Gliscor @Leftovers
Ability- Sand veil
Nature-Jolly
Evs 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
-Baton pass
-Rock Polish
-Earthquake
-Roost

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpA
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Slack Off

That is my first posted team (actually my second team overall but it is still being trained and I haven't fought with it yet so much of this is theoretical). As I haven't fought with it yet I suspect it either blows completely or has good potential but a strict learning curve that I might not have. But if the latter it will force me to learn the nuances of better prediction and learn the meta.


I appreciate your comments and suggestions as well as any general advice for a newbie.
 
Hmm.. right off the bat, I see 5 pokemon destroyed by Common attacks. Garchomp =Ice beam
Gliscor= Ice beam
skarm= Fire blast
Jirachi= Earthquake
Empoleon= earthquake
Those are commonly carried moves. Just to let you know;)
 
I do realize this. Like I said in my post this team may be above my learning curve as it will require a better knowledge of the meta, and extremely crafty switching. I also specifically noted both garchomp and gliscors shared weakeness to ice beam and the neccesary use of either empoleon or even now that i think of it Jirachi in order to combat that. Also I addressed Gliscor and Skarm being able to absorb Earthquakes which I also noted as a common weakness on my team. Fire blast on skarm is a kind of question for me as I didn't specifically note that but it does seem kinda obvious,but it is useful for me to look into what often packs that so I will research that. I mean should I just list all the attacks I'm weak to that happen to be used? and do you have any more specific advice pertaining to my teams well noted weaknesses or are you going to repeat what I've already (for the most part) realized and stated :P

Additionally am I sticking to hard and fast to my theme? maybe 1 or 2 pokes that arent resistant to SS or don't directly benifit from it. Cresselia over Empoleon? (no surf though) Tauntrados over something? I'm open to suggestions.

Thank you for commenting though :)
 
Empoleon seems to be your only answer to a Special Attacker, and it ain't capable of taking multiple Choice Specs hits. As Jirachi and Empoleon got some simulair weaknesses, it might be hard to pull of a Wishpass too..
I think you easily could've replaced Empoleon with a Calm Zapdos. Zapdos is capable of countering any water pokémon in-game, it got a reliable recoverymove and even learn Roar if you'd like the idea of phazing.

Having that said, a LO-Gyarados will easily rip your team apart, as nothing can take more then two hits and nothing is capable of OHKOing. A Vaporeon is more then capable of countering it however, and will fit right into a Sandstorm team as it pack some useful resistances to a Sandstorm team.

If you take my advise, I also believe switching out Skarmory for Bronzong would benefit you more. Skarmory is beaten by most physical sweepers, and really only provides a Bug, Ground and Normal resistance and a phazing move, and you already have that taken care of.
Bronzong learn Hypnosis, an incredible move to use as it shut down a Pokémon completely, and using Stealth Rock isn't such a bad idea either. Also, where Skarmory had to just phaze Metagross away, Bronzong is perfectly capable of attacking it with EQ.

Another note: Gliscor may not be able to pass a Rock Polish to Garchomp, as they both have an huge Ice weakness. Gliscor is a great member of the team though, but honestly I believe you would benefit more with the standard wall set, as nothing else really need some extra speed.
 
Ok I will look into a Calm Zapdos. That would require a switch up of my move sets possibly. T-tar would become my Ice Beamer. Zapdos can t-bolt, roost roar, what do you suggest for the last move? t-wave? or is there a better option there? t-wave could however make up for garchomp's speed and i can make gliscor more into what skarmory was and move away from baton pass shenanigans.

HMMM Bronzong, also provides ground defense, only adds another fire weakness. Hypnosis is another much needed status inflicter can stealth rock and EQ.


Good Ideas flowing, though I am worried of having only T-tar know an ice move.

EDIT: and in an awesome twist of fate the zapdos I caught in leafgreen happens to be calm. I believe that is FTW
 
What happend to Vaporeon? It can take on Gyarados and Heatran, and will provide a couple of needed resistances. It's also capable of handling Mixape, who'll OHKO everything on your team. It also learn Ice Beam, but I don't see how that's necessary as your team don't see to have to much problems with the dragons.
 
well i really like the idea of Zapdos,it has solid attacking power and t-wave which this team needs i think. bronzong less so but where do you suggest vaporeon would fit?
 
I feel Empoleon and Skarmory can be replaced well. With Bronzong and Zapdos, there isn't much for Gliscor to handle too..
 
I was under that same impression (thunder)

I will try the team I originally built and then make moves as I see fit, I do like the idea of Zap especially but there is no harm in trying my version on some random battles. It'll give me more of a feel. but I like your suggestions
 
darkartisan said:
Hmm.. right off the bat, I see 5 pokemon destroyed by Common attacks. Garchomp =Ice beam
Gliscor= Ice beam
skarm= Fire blast
Jirachi= Earthquake
Empoleon= earthquake
Those are commonly carried moves. Just to let you know;)
Click to expand...
Stop posting, you are the worst team rater I've ever seen.
 
Well at least I'm not the only 1 who thought that posting random moves, most of which I already mentioned (had he, ya know taken the time to read) wasn't very helpful.

Thx for the suggestions Rag, I'm open to others btw.
 
All I would like to say is steel, rock, and ground types aren't the only pokes that fit the bill for a sandstorm team. You can use pokes with Lefties who take advantage of the sand to do extra damage to the opponent, and using just those types leaves you weak to five of the most common types, water, ice, fire, ground, and fighting.

Just a small issue but I find Modest Empoleon much better than Calm as otherwise you are barely making use of its pros over Blissey, its special attack.
 
Yea I kinda figured that I was sticking too hard to my type theme.

On another note a pokemon I would consider over Skarmory that might fit the bill better is Shuckle. His Sp Def in a sandstorm would be astronomical and his base def is incredible too. It would be a good support player with knock off to get rid of opponents lefties and can steath rock just like skarm to make the opponent wear down between the sand and the rocks. or toxic there as well. Rest gives me another pokemon with a recovery move and encore will allow for free switches, which this team needs
 
Shuckle is absolutely amazing in Sandstorm. He's not to be underestimated and has served well. Usually, my friend and I run:

Shuckle @ Leftovers
Sturdy
Relaxed
252 HP, 252 Def, 6 SpDef
-Encore
-Knock Off
-Stealth Rock/Toxic
-Rest

And it is a spectacular team player. Encore allows for good switches, and Knock Off, as we all know, is always a plus. Skarmory is used too much, use Shuckle :D
 
I did take the time to read your whole team. It's just not good to have a team weak to 2 of the most commonly carried moves, you'll get quickly swept. If you don't want my advice and think that i'm posting "random moves", then that's your opinion, but another scenario, let's say your up against a hail or raindance team?

You need to think of things such as crits and freezehax too.
 
darkartisan said:
I did take the time to read your whole team. It's just not good to have a team weak to 2 of the most commonly carried moves, you'll get quickly swept. If you don't want my advice and think that i'm posting "random moves", then that's your opinion, but another scenario, let's say your up against a hail or raindance team?

You need to think of things such as crits and freezehax too.
Click to expand...
If you see a problem, don't just let everyone know about it. Try and fix them as well.



That said, don't be afraid (for lack of a better word) to have pokemon not immune to sandstorm. Celebi over Empoleon would be good. This will help you deal with Gyarados and also Garchomp. Personally, the moveset I would use is Reflect/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice/Recover. I've found that Reflect Celebi is a somewhat reliable counter to both Garchomp and Gyarados.

I would change Gliscor to the standard walling variant and remove Skarmory (I'll get to that in a bit). Gliscor is much more dynamic as a physical wall and is able to deal with the most common threats nowadays better than Skarmory.

Garchomp looks fine, but you may find Salac berry to be a little more useful in the long run.

With these changes, you have one empty slot. Looking at your team's weaks and resists, Gyarados could work well in that slot, giving you a Fire resists, Water resist, and Ground immunity as well as being a decent switch in to Garchomp. Sandstorm means stay away from Life Orb, so make sure you use Leftovers. The standard set should work fine but you might consider taking EVs out of defense/hp and putting them into speed/attack to get you to 244 speed, allowing you to beat all Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and Starmie after one and also be a more potent sweeper.

hope this helps a bit!
 
Dark I wasn't criticizing, any help is welcome, but your post made it seem like you didn't really read what I posted, considering I specifically acknowledged everything you said before you even said it and posted what my (albeit weak) strats against those moves.Rag also pointed out those weaknesses, but rather made specific suggestions rather than rehashing what had been established. for instance my plan of BPing to chomp wouldn't work because of common weakness to ice, as Rag pointed out. Also I have no clue where you got "random moves" from as I dont think any one could consider Ice Beam or Earthquake random as you and I both noted they are commonly carried moves and I STRESSED that in my teams description.

Crit and freeze hax are just as much a part of the game as my, sand veil hax though i think statistically i'm more likely to dodge an attack than be frozen and pretty much have no specific effect to team building, I can't be running around fearing being frozen or critical hit as it is completely out of my control. That can happen to any team

Besides as you pointed out I'll get OHKOed by ice beam any ways.

As for weather, Rain isn't a HUUGE problem as A) I dont pack fire moves, and B) the only pokemon with drizzle is an Uber, so they must waste precious turns rain dancing to which I can ruin the run with sand storm., plus I love 100% thunders with 60% par rate :)

However Hail, and abomisnow may be a big problem so thats always a point to consider. I really dont want to be switching back in against It as it can hurt. But the hail itself will also negate my leftovers. plus Blizzard just poos on garchomp and gliscor.


EDIT: @ darkie: I actually kinda guessed I was sticking too hard to my resist sandstorm theme.

I'm almost considering dropping gliscor altogether rather than use a strict defensive set as you suggested for shuckle, just because i really like the idea of both knock off to kill my opponents leftovers and make sandstorm do more damage, a good stealth rock or toxic user. another self healer as well as encore which can allow my big guns such as Garchomp an easy easy switch in.

Gyarados is a possibility, however If I use Shuckle, It will allow me to use the previously suggested Calm Zapdos and only have 2 ice weaks still. I really like the idea of phazing along with stealth rock from shuckle, as well as the ability to take a hit and inflict some much needed paralysis.

/@ darkie
 
I like the idea of making space for Vaporeon. It's a functional Gyarados and MixApe counter and can alleviate a lot of stress Scarftran is capable of causing you, as half your team eats Fire Blast and Hidden Power [Ice] causes problems for non-Yache Chomps. Empoleon can be 2HKO'd by both Earth Power and Fire Blast if Stealth Rocks are down, so it won't be able to switch in any more than once and Tyranitar can only threaten it behind a sub. Where would you put it? No idea. I'm feeling in place of Skarmory.

As for you're duly noted Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Earthquake weaknesses, a team of five Spiritomb's and a Sableye should do the trick. No more weaknesses. Problem solved.
 
OK here are my thoughts

Skarm out-->shuckle in
Empoleon out--> Zapdos in
Glisor can stay for now. but he may get the boot for another choice. probably celebi, vaporeon or gyarados maybe even Mixedpert????

changes reflected in topic post.

EDIT:I'm actually thinkin about Cloyster good def adds to my types and has an ice move thats a priority one
Edit EDIT: changed my mind for slowbro. better typing good defence and a recovery move.
 
If you like Sand Veil, why not use Cacturne? A STABbed Sucker Punch coupled with a Focus Punch can leave any opponent crying. Something like using Destiny Bond on a switch, followed by a Focus Punch (damned if they do, damned if they don't).
 
Sharpteeth said:
If you like Sand Veil, why not use Cacturne? A STABbed Sucker Punch coupled with a Focus Punch can leave any opponent crying. Something like using Destiny Bond on a switch, followed by a Focus Punch (damned if they do, damned if they don't).
Click to expand...


Thats always a possibility, but right now I'm looking at my updated team. I think cacturne is a little less straight forward than what I'm aiming for as of now.

Would anyone care to comment on the updates? They're listed in Bold.
 
If you do intend to try out Cacturne, I'd suggest

Cacturne @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 HP, 252 Att, 6 Spe
-Substitute
-Swords Dance
-Sucker Punch
-Focus Punch

It can take some prediction, but the results are very satisfying. I've swept a few teams with it. You could toss in some speed EVs, but I actually use mine on a Trick Room team, so I haven't tried any calculations myself. Swords Dance + STAB + Sucker Punch is very frightening, and is actually more powerful than SDLuke when hit neutrally. Focus Sash can be used over leftovers if you are completely paranoid about his pretty terrible defenses, but I've had better luck with Leftovers.
 
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