Next 7* raid: Cinderace Terafight!

Got my ass kicked a bunch but after theorymon-ing a little (I know, I know), I stumbled upon a potential set:

Torkoal @ Leftovers / Ability Shield
Bold Nature
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpAtk
~ Clear Smog
~ Lava Plume / Will-O-Wisp
~ Iron Defense
~ Body Press

Basically you sit there and boost your defense while removing Bulk Up boosts and attacking/fishing for burns when the opportunity presents itself. WoW can be used over Lava Plume for guaranteed burn if the shield isn't up, but Lava Plume is STAB and lets you do something if your defense boosts get removed. I suppose I could put Rest somewhere as Torkoal gets no recovery otherwise. I considered Smokescreen, Bulldoze, and Earth Power but they have anti-synergy with Clear Smog.

something something better on paper than in practice, probably. Who knows. Might try it tomorrow, though.
 
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Past the glory of Shellder memes, I would actually highly recommend this Slowbro build people are using for one tapping it offline:

:Slowbro:
Slowbro @ Life Orb
Whatever Ability
Modest / Quiet / Rash
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Def
-Iron Defense
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic Terrain
-Stored Power

Iron Defense twice, Nasty Plot thrice, Psychic Terrain, Go All Out Cheer, then hit the Stored Power for the one shot. The only trouble is outspeeding your allies damage before they proc Cinderace to whip out its shield, which is why you're only using Iron Defense twice and your cheer last. Just got done mowing through three offline with the raid / date change stuff. :boi:

If you are like me and want to use your shiny Slowking instead, it also works with him too, though maybe go with max phys bulk since you lose a lot compared to Slowbro.

I have actually botched the set up a few times and left him with like 20% (there's also some weird phantom hit nonsense happening sometimes??). Even after that, it's not hard to do it all over again for the win.
 
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Thoughts about Haze Vaporeon, Muk, Quagsire, or Toxapex?

Yeah I may have to give up. Espartha felt worse than Ceruledge, so Clear Smog Ceruledge feels like the best I can offer right now like Worldie said.
Toxapex I've used myself in a couple kills.
Pretty much only spamming Chilling Water and nothing else really. Acid Spray if you're feeling like helping special attackers, and I actually cast Baneful Bunker once when Cinderace shields itself so it gets poisoned and chips it a bit more.

Espathra is good BUT it kinda needs defensive investment (which tbh you'd have anyway) and the other 3 to be able to support it. Most Espathras I've seen cast Reflect turn 1, maybe a Roost or two, but REALLY need someone else to be debuffing. If Cinderace still has +atk when the buff negation pulse shoots, everyone dies istantly within 2 turns.
Also Espathra works very well with Armarouge since Armarouge is likely to set Psychic Terrain for Expanding Force either ways, and will in turn benefit from Lumina Crash debuffing spdef.
 
Got my ass kicked a bunch but after theorymon-ing a little (I know, I know), I stumbled upon a potential set:

Torkoal @ Leftovers / Ability Shield
Bold Nature
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk
~ Clear Smog
~ Lava Plume / Will-O-Wisp
~ Iron Defense
~ Body Press

Basically you sit there and boost your defense while removing Bulk Up boosts and attacking/fishing for burns when the opportunity presents itself. WoW can be used over Lava Plume for guaranteed burn if the shield isn't up, but Lava Plume is STAB and lets you do something if your defense boosts get removed. I suppose I could put Rest somewhere as Torkoal gets no recovery otherwise. I considered Smokescreen, Bulldoze, and Earth Power but they have anti-synergy with Clear Smog.

something something better on paper than in practice, probably. Who knows. Might try it tomorrow, though.
I have a similar theorycraft set for Swalot:

Swalot @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Gluttony
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 196 HP / 252 Def / 60 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Clear Smog
- Rain Dance
- Acid Armor
- Body Press

I fear people would quit out if they saw a Torkoal being selected with the potential Drought boosting Pyro Ball damage. 196 HP / 252 Def always puts you in Iapapa range against +1 Pyro Ball at the start, btw.
 
Honestly speaking, coming in with anything that doesnt resist Pyro Ball and HJK at same time feels like asking to be mowed down.
One thing is eating unstabbed coverage, another is eating 130 BP stab and "stab", one of which is also able to burn you.

Espathra kinda gets away with it since it steals the +1 defense buff and doesn't care for the burn, but I haven't seen other mons having success with that so far.
 
Just got a win

I brought support Ceruledge
Support Dachsbun
Support Armarouge
Stored Power Slowbro

Ceruledge WoW turn 1 to avoid shield
Ceruledge Reflect and Clear Smog turn 2-3 to further support defense
Maybe throw a defense cheer in
Everyone takes a pittance and waits for Slowbro to one shot

Quite lucky to get that team comp with randoms though.
 
I've been running with a Support Toxipex set, and it has been doing wonders for me.
Toxipex
Ability: Irrelevant
Tera Type: Irrelevant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Sp Def
Bold Nature
- Chilling Water
- Acid Spray
- Bunker Buster
- Recover

Chilling Water counter acts the bulk ups as well as makes sure all the attackers, especially belly drum users, can stay in and tank all of Scorbunny's attacks. Acid Spray is to help special attackers. Bunker Buster gives you utility in both status and a turn free from damage. Recover gives you more longevity without burning any cheers. Of all of them, Bunker Buster is the one I'd say offers the least benefit, so feel free to replace it. The typing already resists three of its attacks including STABs, and after one or two Chilling Waters Acrobatics isn't doing anything to you anyways.
 
Past the glory of Shellder memes, I would actually highly recommend this Slowbro build people are using for one tapping it offline:

:Slowbro:
Slowbro @ Life Orb
Whatever Ability
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Def
-Iron Defense
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic Terrain
-Stored Power

Iron Defense twice, Nasty Plot thrice, Psychic Terrain, Go All Out Cheer, then hit the Stored Power for the one shot. The only trouble is outspeeding your allies damage before they proc Cinderace to whip out its shield, which is why you're only using Iron Defense twice and your cheer last. Just got done mowing through three offline with the raid / date change stuff. :boi:

If you are like me and want to use your shiny Slowking instead, it also works with him too, though maybe go with max phys bulk since you lose a lot compared to Slowbro.

I have actually botched the set up a few times and left him with like 20% (there's also some weird phantom hit nonsense happening sometimes??). Even after that, it's not hard to do it all over again for the win.
This worked, thanks.
For anyone trying to solo Ace, this set is the best, and it's easy to pull off. Got it on my second try, only takes like 2 minutes at most to try again if you failed for whatever reason.
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DHR-107

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I've done around 6 now - some with randos some without.

Honestly, the critical move here is an attack debuff one. Chilling Water/Clear Smog are by far the best two options available. The 2 raids without Clear Smog failed, the four that had it were all cleared.

I've been using a semi support Azumarill with Charm/Fake Tears/Drum/Play Rough, and swap to offense when shields go up. Cinderace seems to get a massive shield (I'm not sure if this is bigger than Zards?) but as soon as it starts stacking the Bulk Up buffs it gets unmanageable very quickly and you will lose the raid. Clear Smog/Chilling Water prevents this from happening (I assume Lunge would also work here too, but iirc its bug only?) so it makes the thing a bit easier for everyone.
 
(I assume Lunge would also work here too, but iirc its bug only?)
Iron Moth, who resists both Fire and Fighting, can learn it. But it's physical bulk leaves a lot to be desired, which is a shame because it also has stuff like Morning Sun and Acid Spray which could help.
 
It is convenient that Clear Smog is learned by arguably the best mon for this raid (Armarouge) and 90% of Chilling Water learners naturally resist one or both stabs.

But with how often Ace spams Bulk Up once shield goes up, it becomes basically mandatory to commit all turns to it
 
Past the glory of Shellder memes, I would actually highly recommend this Slowbro build people are using for one tapping it offline:

:Slowbro:
Slowbro @ Life Orb
Whatever Ability
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Def
-Iron Defense
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic Terrain
-Stored Power

Iron Defense twice, Nasty Plot thrice, Psychic Terrain, Go All Out Cheer, then hit the Stored Power for the one shot. The only trouble is outspeeding your allies damage before they proc Cinderace to whip out its shield, which is why you're only using Iron Defense twice and your cheer last. Just got done mowing through three offline with the raid / date change stuff. :boi:

If you are like me and want to use your shiny Slowking instead, it also works with him too, though maybe go with max phys bulk since you lose a lot compared to Slowbro.

I have actually botched the set up a few times and left him with like 20% (there's also some weird phantom hit nonsense happening sometimes??). Even after that, it's not hard to do it all over again for the win.
Two raids were one shot by one. Thanks mate
 
Past the glory of Shellder memes, I would actually highly recommend this Slowbro build people are using for one tapping it offline:

:Slowbro:
Slowbro @ Life Orb
Whatever Ability
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Def
-Iron Defense
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic Terrain
-Stored Power

Iron Defense twice, Nasty Plot thrice, Psychic Terrain, Go All Out Cheer, then hit the Stored Power for the one shot. The only trouble is outspeeding your allies damage before they proc Cinderace to whip out its shield, which is why you're only using Iron Defense twice and your cheer last. Just got done mowing through three offline with the raid / date change stuff. :boi:

If you are like me and want to use your shiny Slowking instead, it also works with him too, though maybe go with max phys bulk since you lose a lot compared to Slowbro.

I have actually botched the set up a few times and left him with like 20% (there's also some weird phantom hit nonsense happening sometimes??). Even after that, it's not hard to do it all over again for the win.
I saw people claiming this build made the raid easy to solo in Austin John's comments and decided to build it over espartha. I did it from memory, though, so I ran slack off over psychic terrain. Even with +6 def +6 spatk it's not enough to one-shot, and it took me a few tries to get enough luck to win. I'll try the terrain for my next attempts.

Overall, this one feels nuch less consistent than Charizard, and much less enjoyable due to the set up spam. Right before the event started I had a 6* ghost gardevoir that had a similar strat of calm minding and just mowing down everything with moonblast. Even Gholdengo can't take a hit when Gardevoir gets to +4 before you can even launch a second move.

I feel like set up spam bosses should have been balanced by not having them nullify your stats at all, so that if you survive long enough to get set up yourself you don't have to try to worry about them undoing it all.
 
Iron Hands still seems to be a relatively safe pick here; resists acrobatics and iron head, bulky enough for the other two.

Can see why Gyarados is here as defensive option, though. Good resists, good stats, Intimidate is a nice turn 1 debuff, etc.
Gengar feels weirder to me; I get HJK immunity & they gave them all Clear Smog, but....
It's nice that they're giving specific tera types (Psychic and Flying for Gengar and Gyarados) this time at least, and it looks like the Flying Gyarados's ability is Random compared to Hidden Possible so it sounds like it will always have Intimidate.

Apparently this Cinderace has a 30x HP multiplier compared to Charizard's 25x HP so that's another aspect it's harder in.
1672411208181.png
 
I wonder if they saw how easy Charizard was to mow down so they made Cinderace harder (despite being the better Pokémon anyway)
 
I wonder if they saw how easy Charizard was to mow down so they made Cinderace harder (despite being the better Pokémon anyway)
Idk about easy or hard. I also struggled to get any Chari raid done first day, then next couple days it was azumarills sylveon and blissey everywhere and near guaranteed kills.

I wouldn't be surprised if within a day everyone and their mom will be spamming armarouge and slowbro (already most raids had 2+ of these as well as espathra toxapex or azumarill)


Ultimately GF said they want 7star raids to be a "puzzle to solve", and like all puzzles, it's just a matter of how fast the puzzle solution gets widespread.
 
I've been running this build as an offensive support mon for 6-star raids and it's been extremely successful so far:

Slowking @ Light Clay
Oblivious
Relaxed Nature
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
-Reflect/Light Screen (swap out via Move Reminder as needed)
-Nasty Plot
-Heal Pulse
-Future Sight

Main reason I've run Slowking over Slowbro, despite its lower physical Defense, is that it's capable of learning both Screen moves. Oblivious is a crucial ability to have because it means that Slowking can't be Taunted, allowing it to freely use Heal Pulse to help support its team. Nasty Plot and Future Sight both allow for it to have some good offensive potential as well, as the two-turn delay for Future Sight is far less of a drawback when you're fighting an opponent that can't switch out.

This build seems like it could be good against 7-star Cinderace, but the main thing I'm worrying about is the possibility of it running Court Change specifically to fuck with screens users.
 
Past the glory of Shellder memes, I would actually highly recommend this Slowbro build people are using for one tapping it offline:

:Slowbro:
Slowbro @ Life Orb
Whatever Ability
252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 6 Def
-Iron Defense
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic Terrain
-Stored Power

Iron Defense twice, Nasty Plot thrice, Psychic Terrain, Go All Out Cheer, then hit the Stored Power for the one shot. The only trouble is outspeeding your allies damage before they proc Cinderace to whip out its shield, which is why you're only using Iron Defense twice and your cheer last. Just got done mowing through three offline with the raid / date change stuff. :boi:

If you are like me and want to use your shiny Slowking instead, it also works with him too, though maybe go with max phys bulk since you lose a lot compared to Slowbro.

I have actually botched the set up a few times and left him with like 20% (there's also some weird phantom hit nonsense happening sometimes??). Even after that, it's not hard to do it all over again for the win.
I ended up rolling an optimal squad of Double Intimidate AI & Umbreon with paralysis today, so I just put Twisted Spoon and Calcium on a Slowbro which made it pretty straightforward even when hitting into shield. Overall it seems like having at least one of the 3 possible Intimidate allies makes this setup more reliable if you find that Slowbro dies otherwise, and I noticed that the other clear above is with Arcanine/Tauros as well. Also Arboliva ruins the terrain.
1672415679361.png
1672415716333.png
 

Vinc2612

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Is there a way to change the NPC that raid along you? I'm stuck with an Arboliva that won't let me set Psychic Terrain
 

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