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curiosity

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Thank you again to everyone who has voted. Before I show the votes and subsequently the winner, I must apologise for not updating the hall of fame, as i've actually just completely forgotten about it. Anyways, this week, we saw a wide array of votes, but our winner is Choice Band by Jordy ! Here are the votes for this week:

Code:
3 Attacks Defog - 1
Choice Band - 3
Swords Dance + Life Orb - 1
Swords Dance + Adrenaline Orb - 1
Substitute + Salac Berry - 1
Calm Mind - lmao flame
Normalium Z Swords Dance  - 2
Don't worry, I've already added this to the hall of fame. Speaking of the


This week's case study is Latios! Latios has been a consistently amazing option throughout the generations and is remains as one of the tier's most amazing mons. However, unlike its ORAS counterpart, this generation's meta heavily favours its Mega Evolution counterpart rather than its base form due to its ability to threaten the majority of the tier's defensive cores due to its expansive movepool. While its mega form overshadows its base form, it still has an interesting niche in the tier, from being able to utilise z crystals to being able to being able to wield a choice item, latios possesses a few niches over its mega counterpart.

Can you find the next best latios set? Deadline is Friday the 1st.

Additional Rules:

Both forms of Latios are allowed.

Here are the banned sets of the week:

Latios @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psychic
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire / Draco Meteor
- Recover
Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog
- Trick
Latios @ Psychium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Calm Mind


Happy Posting!

Edit:Deadline is now two weeks away, I'm quite busy these upcoming weeks, with smogon and irl projects to do. I hope this gives everyone time to post some quality sets!
 
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Felixx

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Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psychic
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Roost

LO Latios attempts to emulate M-Latios' job of mixed wallbreaking, the positives being it frees up the mega slot and does more damage (for the special side), but it comes with the drawbacks of having much less bulk and longevity because of the Life Orb recoil. HP Fire can be used over Draco for an OHKO on M-Scizor, and a clean 2HKO on Ferro.

252 SpA Latios-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor-Mega: 304-360 (88.6 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor-Mega: 343-406 (100 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Latios-Mega Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 204-244 (57.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208+ SpD Ferrothorn: 234-276 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Latios-Mega Psychic vs. 244 HP / 152 SpD Gliscor: 181-214 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- 48.4% chance to 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psychic vs. 244 HP / 152 SpD Gliscor: 203-239 (57.6 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252 SpA Latios-Mega Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 160-190 (44 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Latios Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 153-182 (42.1 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
 
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Latios @ Psychium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Block
- Defog / Whirlpool
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor

This is a pretty cool stallbreaker set that has been used in the past, in wcop. Z-Heal Block gives Latios a +2 in special attack and prevents every healing moves during 5 turns which is pretty cool to 1v1 pokemons like Chansey, Gastrodon and Reuniclus. It also applies an amazing pressure on the opposing team and makes it easier for you to break with mons like Greninja for example. Additionally, you can use Whirlpool to trap an opposing pokemon such as Chansey and beat it 1v1 (or at least severely weaken it). You can also use Shatered Psyche if Z-Heal Block isn't needed.
 
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Jordy

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Latios-Mega @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Surf / Earthquake
- Psychic
- Calm Mind
- Roost

This is a set I've used for a little bit, it isn't too bad, but its main flaw is that Mega Latias just does it better. However, CM Mega Latios can carve itself a tiny niche over Mega Latias as it has more initial power and is not overly reliant on boosting as it can still break Pokemon without having to use Calm Mind, for example, unlike Mega Latias, it doesn't have to boost to be able to outright break Pokemon like Clefable. Mega Latios can fit Calm Mind onto its set sometimes as it doesn't need Draco Meteor, Ice Beam etc. , though they're all admittedly greater options.​
 
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Waterium Z
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Latios (M) @ Waterium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Surf
- Roost
- Defog / Hidden Power [Fire] / Draco Meteor
This set is actually a pretty cool balance breaker against teams that’s rely on Heatran or Tyranitar for the most part. Surf + Waterium Z lets you bluff Scarf and lure Tyranitar and Heatran. Psychic is nessecary to not be walled by Pex and Amoongus. Roost is mandatory to stay healthy to consistently check Heatran and to defeat Pokémon like Tapu Bulu. For the last slot, Defog is good if you need hazard removal, while Hidden Power Fire makes Latios more of a dedicated balance breaker.
As for fitting this set on a team, pair this with Pokémon that appreciate Heatran and Tyranitar gone. It is also good if you need a Heatran switchin and Mega Latios wallbreaking abilities but you already have a mega.
 
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Mixed Dragon Dance Latios-Mega

Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt

After one dragon dance, latios outspeeds pretty much everything common bar scarf greninja (even m-swampert in rain is slower). Dragon Claw is its best physical stab (zhb can miss) and EQ hits steels. Ice Beam hits stuff like Lando, but Thunderbolt is an option to hit Celesteela. Roost/Recover would be nice but is kind of hard to fit.
This set can clean up late game once bulky fairies like clefable are removed or significantly chipped, and walls have been weakened.
This competes with mcharx for a DD mega role, but latios's higher speed and bulk and sr neutrality give it an easier time setting up. On the other hand, mcharx has better stabs and ability.
 
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Eclipse

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is a Contributor Alumnus
Specs Latios:

Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Trick

Specs Latios is honestly the only set I'd really ever use myself on base Latios in this meta; Scarf is, IMO, outdone by Latias, and other offensive sets don't put in the work that they should. Specs differentiates itself from its Mega due to its insane power along with its already good bulk. The moves are standard; Psychic > Psyshock is if you want to be able to 2HKO Clefable with no prior damage, but you have to be more careful of CM variants. Trick is an option too, but I'm not a fan of it as opposed to being able to nail Scizor and Ferrothorn.
 
You guys took all the fun sets

Well reserving suicide dual screens Latios


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Latios (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Memento
- Magic Coat

This set is painfully simple, so let's a go. Latios, thanks to access to Dual Screens and strangely Memento can make a surprise option as a suicide lead as teams will often expect Koko to fullfill this role. Thanks to Memento and higher on average bulk, you get incredibly easy momentum, allowing you to set-up on nearly any Pokemon in the metagame, with little to no repercussions. However, Magic Coat is Latios's only option against Taunter such as Koko and Stealth Rockers and is very prediction-reliant. However, if you pair this with a Calm Mind Tapu Koko, prepare to have fun as your opponents will be dumbfounded
 
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Mixed Mega Energy Ball

Latios @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Psychic/Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Energy Ball
- Recover

Because fuck gastro. Psychic into Energy Ball kills this fucker.

Also OHKOs greninja, Swampert.
Chips Ttar and makes Latios less pursuit bait.
 
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Trapper M-Latios:

latios-mega.gif



Latios-Mega (M) @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 156 Def / 96 SpD / 248 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Whirlpool
- Energy Ball

Do you want to trap Chansey but not use ttar or azumarill? Welp because Latios gets whirlpool. Spread lets it do 101 subs, some random defense, some random sp def, and enough to outspeed a 109 speed mon. i'm so baaaaaaaaad.
 
The Most Gluey of Latioses


Latios-Mega @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Energy Ball / Thunderbolt / Earthquake
- Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire
- Thunder Wave / Toxic
- Roost

Primary moves are bolded. Basically, it either cripples or kills the stuff that your team wants gone. It's a rain/water check, deals with rockers, and can give you speed control. You could slash an infinite number of moves, but take your pick. Toxic could even be used depending on team composition (balance over bulky o, for example).
 
Mixed DD Mega Latios

Latios @ Latiosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Dragon Dance


General idea
Do you know who is the fastest DDancer in the entire OU environment?
It is Mega Latios, which has the added benefit over Charizard-X of a better starting Spe tier and neutrality to SR.
Dragon Dance rectifies the impact of the omnipresent Intimidate users and add a useful Spe boost that allows our beloved Dragon to outspeed some "checks".

Evs spread and item
252 EVs in Atk because Mega Latios is stronger than LO Latios on the Atk department, so I think it is a nice thing if we underline this trait. A Naive nature is chosen to preserve its Def, which is useful towards many Pursuit Trappers.
Ice Beam is a wonderful coverage move and the SpA would be wasted otherwise.
Latiosite is preferred over LO because the former adds more physical strenght and some useful bulk

Team(mates) support
Hazards support (SR is enough) in order to achieve some key KOs and 2HKOs. Wish support + Aromatheraphy is also nice (Clefable, maybe?) is also a good thing to have to preserve Latios' attacking prowess.
Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor needs to be removed before starting the sweep, whereas Heatran is handled by Earthquake.

Calcs:
4 SpA Latios-Mega Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Thundurus: 236-278 (78.9 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 154-182 (45.1 - 53.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Latios-Mega Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 472-556 (123.5 - 145.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Latios-Mega Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 417-492 (148.3 - 175%) -- guaranteed OHKO and Weavile can only use CB Ice Shard because it is slower than M-Latios after a DD
4 SpA Latios-Mega Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp-Mega: 408-484 (113.9 - 135.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 28 Def Muk-Alola: 400-472 (96.8 - 114.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
After a DD you are able to outspeed and OHKO Ash-Greninja and Tapu Koko (at +0 Atk you need SR to ensure the KO).
 
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Mellow

way too gassed
is a Pre-Contributor

Latios (M) @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Defog
- Memento

I gave up on writing Electrium Z as I realised its a shit set and regular Latios is just generally a bit shit, so why not just sack it? This set is supreme sack fodder - using Darkinium Z, Memento not only drops their Atk & SpAtk by two stages, but it also fully heals whatever Pokemon you switch into. The other moves are just standard moves on this, if you don't need defog you can try Thunder Wave maybe.
 

curiosity

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before I begin, I'd like to apologise for the slight delay - I thought i'd do something really big for a 100 post "special", but then I lost my progress, so here we are.


i forgot include an np, so click these

Thank you everyone for participating this week! We've had a large array of submissions this week, so thank you once again for participating this week. I think this has been one of the most creative submission stages since landorus, so without further ado, here are this week's nominees:

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Mixed Life Orb by Felixx
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Psychium Z Heal Block by MFJr King
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Calm Mind by Jordy
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Waterium Z by Flame from Heaven
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@
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Mixed Dragon Dance by both snorlax142857
and the outrage variant nameless90
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Choice Specs by Eclipse
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Dual Screens by stuuful12
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Energy Ball by 1_TrickPhony
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Whirlpool by I hate ninjask

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Thunder Wave? Lure Set? Discount Mega Latias? by micahclay
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Darkinium Z Memento by mellowyellowhd

my vote will go to Z Memento.
voting ends on friday the 8th of june.


Now, you may be wondering why the end submission date is so far away - well that's because this week, i'll be tallying the votes alongside the submissions of this week's "case study":



Clefable is a 'mon that needs to introduction - we all know what clefable is able to do - which is practically everything. Thanks to the combination of the fairy typing, fantastic bulk and a disgustingly large movepool, Clefable is practically able to perform excellently as any real role currently available. Can you find clefable's next best set?

Here are the banned sets of the week
Happy posting!
 
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Jordy

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Moderator

wahed kech (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave

This basically does what standard Clefable does except it can also paralyze Pokemon (gay lol). Thunder Wave is pretty good to cripple Pokemon like Volcarona, Victini, and anything along those lines really. 12 Speed EVs let Clefable outspeed paralyzed Tapu Lele. (ty Felixx)

My vote goes to Choice Specs.​
 
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Specs
Flamethrower Clefable
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
Flamethrower allows Clefable to screw over teams that rely on Kartana, Ferrothorn, and Mega Scizor. It can also annoy Celesteela and AV Magearna a bit.
 
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Voting Darkinium Z

Stored Power Clefable

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
- Soft-Boiled

Switch into commonly played mons that don't have enough killing power, lack the coverage to properly hit clefable, or rely on status to kill (switching in absorbing status for other mons is also good). After a Cosmic Power, Clefable's defenses become astronomical, allowing it to softboiled without putting itself at risk of a 2hko from most mons. Charge Beam is to ensure that dark types don't wall it out, and has a side effect of boosting special attack as well to be used after you are no longer at risk of getting KOed from cosmic power stacking.

You can also use grassy seed, if your team could benefit from a Tapu Bulu. Switching the EVs to better cover SpD, along with the leftovers and terrain healing turn every ground type primary attacker into absolute setup fodder. It also prevents knocking off from being a nuisances.

Weaknesses: Taunters, trickers, really strong poison/steel attackers. Also critical hits :(
 
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Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard / Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature

- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled / Moonlight
- Wish
- Stealth Rock

Clef's newfound dual recovery set has recently exploded into prominence, and for good reason, but one thing that's been overlooked in the commotion is that it can run Special Defense investment just as successfully as Defense investment. While it loses the ability to switch into Hawlucha and MMedi as reliably as before, it gains the ability to take on an entirely different set of threats, from Ash-Greninja to Tapu Lele to opposing Clefable. Note that Unaware is a perfectly viable option over Magic Guard on this variant, and is actually my personal preference, as many of OU's special attackers use Calm Mind or Quiver Dance - with Unaware, SpDef Clef can even stall out Volcarona! Just be sure to have another way around Toxic if you drop Magic Guard.
 
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