Ah okay, thanks for clearing that up. You can probably tell I'm more of an OU player!
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Ninetales [QC 3/3]
- Thread starter Davon
- Start date
Overview
"Try to predict Ninetales's switch-ins and use a coverage move that hits them super effectively so that they're weak enough for Ninetales to sweep late-game. Alternatively, if they have a special wall like Audino which doesn't get hit super effectively by one of Ninetales's coverage moves go for Nasty Plot on the switch to break through Audino."
- Expand more on its niche. Its coverage is pretty much godtier for being able to break through some of the best checks to Fire-types, and unlike others it can boost with Nasty Plot.
- Little minor but NP should be the first move listed as it's Ninetales's primary niche
"Try to predict Ninetales's switch-ins and use a coverage move that hits them super effectively so that they're weak enough for Ninetales to sweep late-game. Alternatively, if they have a special wall like Audino which doesn't get hit super effectively by one of Ninetales's coverage moves go for Nasty Plot on the switch to break through Audino."
- I disagree with that first sentence. For Psyshock variants at least, you're almost always better off going for Nasty Plot on the switch because it's effectively the same thing as hitting them with two coverage moves, and +2 Ninetales has the power and coverage to break through most traditional Fire resists. WoW variants are a different story, but they have a different playstyle and that should be taken note of.
That does applies for Life Orb Ninetales, but Leftovers + Psyshock Ninetales does not have the power to OHKO the likes of Hariyama and Dragalge. Hitting them on the switch with Psyshock is better for Lefties Tales so that it can safely Nasty Plot later (like you said), instead of hitting them with a +2 non-LO attack and taking considerable damage from Close Combat / Poison Touch Dragon Tail.
Davon this looks pretty good, Ninetales is pretty straight forward after all.
-Moves-
Energy Ball hits bulky Rock types too. Make Will-O-Wisp its own seperate bullet point (I'm still not sold on Will-O-Wisp, but others seem to think its slash worthy).
-Set Details-
Mention an alternative EV Spread in Set Details for Leftovers Ninetales, it's a nice option for longevity as you take a ton of special attacks better and you can live Aqua Jets more easily without being forced to run Passho Berry (mentioning losing out on certain pokemon like jynx, tying with typh etc in favor of more bulk). I've run 112 HP / 252 Spa / 144 Spe with a Timid nature to a lot of success, this allows you to outrun everything up to max speed Rotom-S. I know Deej Dy likes to run bulkier builds of ninetales so maybe he can add some input as to what an optimal spread is (I'll probably run some calcs on the SpA investment later and figure one out regardless but the one I listed is good enough for now).
-Usage Tips-
The way you talk about wisp makes it seem like its the most important move on the set, I definitely wouldn't say to 'use it as much as possible' everything is situational and it honestly depends on what the opponent has to switch into tales. I'd change this to mention common Ninetales switch ins that are targets for wisp, and maybe add a mention that its only useful on the initial switch into tales (provided you hit lol).
You kind of touched on how orb tales gets past certain pokemon with greater ease due to XHKOing them after a boost, mention how lefties tales plays differently in these situations (setting up may not be the best play where as just attacking for chip damage can be helpful for later).
-Team Options-
Change Lumineon to Prinplup, it's just better at defogging and being pure water-type. Remove the term 'fire spam' core (even though this might be the one place it hasn't been misused; a word like spam probably doesn't belong in an analysis) and change it to say something like 'a potent fire-type core' or 'powerful special attacking Fire-type core.' Mention more than just fighting types as a way to deal with audino, I might even change this to special defensive walls >audino/licky and physical attackers > fighting type (still mention audino and sawk, but this distinction covers more than those select pokemon).
-Checks & Counters-
Mention that aqua jet users need to watch out for passho tales/ passho tales doesnt need to worry about them as much.
Only other thing I want to mention is that when you do your write up, C&C might be a little difficult seeing as there are more checks than dedicated counters to this thing. Mentioning specific scenarios regarding unboosted vs boosted tales and how said counter/check deals with it would be good.
Make those changes and QC 2/3.
-Moves-
Energy Ball hits bulky Rock types too. Make Will-O-Wisp its own seperate bullet point (I'm still not sold on Will-O-Wisp, but others seem to think its slash worthy).
-Set Details-
Mention an alternative EV Spread in Set Details for Leftovers Ninetales, it's a nice option for longevity as you take a ton of special attacks better and you can live Aqua Jets more easily without being forced to run Passho Berry (mentioning losing out on certain pokemon like jynx, tying with typh etc in favor of more bulk). I've run 112 HP / 252 Spa / 144 Spe with a Timid nature to a lot of success, this allows you to outrun everything up to max speed Rotom-S. I know Deej Dy likes to run bulkier builds of ninetales so maybe he can add some input as to what an optimal spread is (I'll probably run some calcs on the SpA investment later and figure one out regardless but the one I listed is good enough for now).
-Usage Tips-
The way you talk about wisp makes it seem like its the most important move on the set, I definitely wouldn't say to 'use it as much as possible' everything is situational and it honestly depends on what the opponent has to switch into tales. I'd change this to mention common Ninetales switch ins that are targets for wisp, and maybe add a mention that its only useful on the initial switch into tales (provided you hit lol).
You kind of touched on how orb tales gets past certain pokemon with greater ease due to XHKOing them after a boost, mention how lefties tales plays differently in these situations (setting up may not be the best play where as just attacking for chip damage can be helpful for later).
-Team Options-
Change Lumineon to Prinplup, it's just better at defogging and being pure water-type. Remove the term 'fire spam' core (even though this might be the one place it hasn't been misused; a word like spam probably doesn't belong in an analysis) and change it to say something like 'a potent fire-type core' or 'powerful special attacking Fire-type core.' Mention more than just fighting types as a way to deal with audino, I might even change this to special defensive walls >audino/licky and physical attackers > fighting type (still mention audino and sawk, but this distinction covers more than those select pokemon).
-Checks & Counters-
Mention that aqua jet users need to watch out for passho tales/ passho tales doesnt need to worry about them as much.
Only other thing I want to mention is that when you do your write up, C&C might be a little difficult seeing as there are more checks than dedicated counters to this thing. Mentioning specific scenarios regarding unboosted vs boosted tales and how said counter/check deals with it would be good.
Make those changes and QC 2/3.
A few things
1. Put the /sub or /wisp next to energy ball, as psychic/physical and fire coverage is a necessity and sub isn't too bad to absorb statuses and subbing on switches.
2. Flamethrower is more often used than fire blast as Ninetales is about sweeping consistently and a nasty plot is usually enough, rather than sacrificing accuracy and a sweep for a fire blast miss. I recommend typing Flamethrower/Fire Blast for the set, with fire blast as the secondary option.
3. Emphasize its ability to take on any will o wisp users like Weezing, Rotom, Missy and fire spammers like Typh, Pyroar, etc which gives it good use to a defensive team as well.
4. No need to mention a need for fighting support, ninetales can easily take down Audino and bulky spec def walls who lack fire power, especially with sub.
5. Delete the section saying special walls stop it, cause they don't, barring Probopass.
6. Suggest teaming with Something to take an aqua jet such as Seismatoad, makes a great partner to absorb water priority.
I agree with Kiyo on his changes as well.
Type this up and you got my QC 3/3
1. Put the /sub or /wisp next to energy ball, as psychic/physical and fire coverage is a necessity and sub isn't too bad to absorb statuses and subbing on switches.
2. Flamethrower is more often used than fire blast as Ninetales is about sweeping consistently and a nasty plot is usually enough, rather than sacrificing accuracy and a sweep for a fire blast miss. I recommend typing Flamethrower/Fire Blast for the set, with fire blast as the secondary option.
3. Emphasize its ability to take on any will o wisp users like Weezing, Rotom, Missy and fire spammers like Typh, Pyroar, etc which gives it good use to a defensive team as well.
4. No need to mention a need for fighting support, ninetales can easily take down Audino and bulky spec def walls who lack fire power, especially with sub.
5. Delete the section saying special walls stop it, cause they don't, barring Probopass.
6. Suggest teaming with Something to take an aqua jet such as Seismatoad, makes a great partner to absorb water priority.
I agree with Kiyo on his changes as well.
Type this up and you got my QC 3/3
U pretty much kill Ninetails by banning Drought. it should be an exception for ninetails to use in UU or NU. i don't agree with what happened to ninetails
Uh ninetales actually has a really good niche in NU as a Flash Fire mon, also this isn't the place to talk about tiering.
this was dropped
boltsandbombers you can make the new skeleton (if you don't want it then Deej can have it)
boltsandbombers you can make the new skeleton (if you don't want it then Deej can have it)