Ninetales (Substitute)

Zecram

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http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/ninetales

[SET]
name: Substitute
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Hidden Power Ground / Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Toxic / Will-o-Wisp
item: Leftovers / Expert Belt
nature: Modest
evs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe

Why this set deserves to be on-site:

  • Usually force switches for most steels and play mindgames with the enemy inducers using SR / Toxic in the switch, helping to get a free Sub
  • Uses predict to cripple or defeat it's common counters: Politoed, Tyranitar, Terrakion, and all non-air ballon Heatran and non-lum Berry dragons
  • Not outclassed by Heatran since you can setup perma sun with it.
  • Plays diffrently from Specially Defensive set, since you have offensive presence


Additional Comments:

  • EV's for maximize damage, while outspeeding neutral 90's, mainly all unboosted Heatran. Remaining EV's for some bulk
  • HP Ground for coverage, HP Fighting mainly for a weakened tyranitar
  • Toxic ís the main move since you can cripple Vaporeon, Rotom-W, Jellicent, Lati@s, Gastrodon, Volcarona, and others, better than WoW
  • Expert Belt is needed to guarantee a 2HKO in all forms except for 252/252+ calm heatran, and even then, it can't defeat you one-at-one. However, leftovers are the better choice, since you can substall with it
  • You can opt 252 Satk / 252 Spd and a timid nature to outspeed all dragons not named Lati@s and puting a Sub or WoWing them, but the drop in power is noticiable and you lose some bulk


Teammates and Counters:

  • Substitute Dugtrio is wonderful to help trapping the pink blobs / politoed in a toxic and can help to deal with tyranitar / heatran / terrakion / starmie when needed
  • Rapid Spin is a good idea, specially from the likes of Donphan (who beings a nice Rock resistance), Forretress or HP Fire Starmie, helping to create more Subs
  • Pokemon who usually lures steels who ninetales can switch, like scizor (beware with u-turn) / ferrothorn / forretress / skarmory / Magnezone, such as Mamoswine, Venusaur, Lati@s, and others
  • Tentacruel is immune to toxic, can break your subs and is never 2HKO'ed by HP Ground
  • Air Baloon Heatran walls this set to the hell and back, and can Earth Power you to death
  • As always, if not behind a Sub, faster pokémon with a SE move can check it


Sorry for some bad english who might appear, i'm from Brazil and i'm learning it :kongler:
 
What's with all these "x Pokemon gets y move so let's give it it's own set" things? I say it doesn't play that differently from any other set in the analysis, so just slash it in on the special attacker set.
 
Well, it can be changed to a single revamp, but the main purpose of this set is not only attacking, but scouting switches and cripplying them properly.

Test it, you will not be desappointed
 
shrang said:
This is pretty much the same as the Specially Defensive set, lol.
Click to expand...

More the offensive one with a touch of defense, but whatever. The sets don't need a revamp, this just doesn't need to be a set because it really doesn't do anything that another Ninetales set doesn't
 
To me this just looks like the sp def ninetales with just a larger offensive presence. Maybe if you showed some logs of this set performing well then people would be a little bit less skeptical of its usefulness. However imo this set may need another selling factor to go onsite.
 
Majority of ninetails suck anyways, its only ever used to set up sun and thats it. With that said, this set isn't better than any of the other Ninetails sets. If it is different or unique, please show us how this Ninetales can beat one of its usual counters, ect.
 
Given that Ninetales is a Pokemon that needs to stay alive as long as possible, and it's weak to SR and not immune to Spikes, Substitute just seems like it's racing toward the grave.

Will hold off on a final judgment, but leaning toward no.
 
I have little time to play atm, but I'll post some logs soon.

PS: added spinning suport in teammates and counters.
 
I like Sub + Roar + WoW + Fire Blast , but that isn't this set and it plays too similarly to the current on-site Specially Defensive set.
 
People said this already, but this is really the same as the Specially Defensive set already on-site. I would much rather use the EV spread listed on-site over yours. Your spread decreases Ninetales' bulk for more offensive power, which isn't really saying much because Ninetales is relatively weak even with offensive investment. With hazards all over the place in OU and the decrease in bulk + the 25% health loss from Substitute, Ninetales won't be able to stick around for long, even with teammate support. Ninetales seriously needs all of the bulk it can get to stick around as long as possible to keep sun up, and the EV spread in the OP takes away from that.

Sorry, but this is going to be a no.
 
Yeah, sorry, I'm gonna give this a no too. It's pretty much a Hannah Montana of the speedy and Special Defensive sets on-site, so adding another set explaining the usefulness of Substitute won't do because that would be repetitive.
 
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